2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)

[humpback]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

It's a philosophical issue- coaches don't want to be dictated to, they want to be free to play (and look to acquire) the best players. EJ may end up being that (shudder), but it sounds like Whaley doesn't even want to entertain that he isn't.

What's he supposed to say? They don't have any other QB on the roster. The draft sucks for QBs. The FA QB market is mediocre at best.

He wouldn't be doing his job if:

A) He didn't try to sell their only current option. He would be doing the team a disservice if he didn't at least try to sell Manuel since outside of him they have zero clue who could be their QB next year and going forward and

B) He wasn't honest and upfront with prospective HCs about the state of the team's QB position. It's pretty obvious anyway, but he's not blowing smoke up their butts about trading for a QB, trading up in the draft, or anything unlikely like that. Better to be honest and weed out coaches that would want absolutely nothing to do with EJ.

And frankly, any coach that would reject the Bills job based solely on the current QB situation without even wanting to try to develop EJ more isn't a coach I want. This team has a ton of talent. If a coach doesn't think he can either work around EJ or make him better and utilize the rest of the talent, then good riddance.

How about "give me your analysis of our current QBs, and tell me how you would go about improving the play at the position"? It's absolutely asinine for an unproven (at best) front office to dictate to prospective new coaches what they have to do at QB (caveat- we don't really know what's going on for sure in these interviews, but based on the reporting). You can try and sell your current option while also being open minded enough to consider alternatives.

Your last paragraph is baffling to me. Again, we're not sure exactly how this is being presented, but if it's "you have to work with what we've got", I wouldn't blame any coach who would pass, and I'd expect the most sought after ones to do just that. If it's "we'd like you to try and develop EJ, but we're also committed to improving the QB position in any way possible", that is a much more enticing proposition.

 

[dhockster]

Baby Shanny wants a head coaching job. If they say play Manual, he will play him. If Shanny can turn him around, great. If not, and he plays poorly this year, the Bills will probably have a pretty high pick next year to start over. Manual has played enough before this year that if he doesn't turn it around this year, he is done with the Bills.

 

[gchip]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

It's a philosophical issue- coaches don't want to be dictated to, they want to be free to play (and look to acquire) the best players. EJ may end up being that (shudder), but it sounds like Whaley doesn't even want to entertain that he isn't.

What's he supposed to say? They don't have any other QB on the roster. The draft sucks for QBs. The FA QB market is mediocre at best.

He wouldn't be doing his job if:

A) He didn't try to sell their only current option. He would be doing the team a disservice if he didn't at least try to sell Manuel since outside of him they have zero clue who could be their QB next year and going forward and

B) He wasn't honest and upfront with prospective HCs about the state of the team's QB position. It's pretty obvious anyway, but he's not blowing smoke up their butts about trading for a QB, trading up in the draft, or anything unlikely like that. Better to be honest and weed out coaches that would want absolutely nothing to do with EJ.

And frankly, any coach that would reject the Bills job based solely on the current QB situation without even wanting to try to develop EJ more isn't a coach I want. This team has a ton of talent. If a coach doesn't think he can either work around EJ or make him better and utilize the rest of the talent, then good riddance.

How about "give me your analysis of our current QBs, and tell me how you would go about improving the play at the position"? It's absolutely asinine for an unproven (at best) front office to dictate to prospective new coaches what they have to do at QB (caveat- we don't really know what's going on for sure in these interviews, but based on the reporting). You can try and sell your current option while also being open minded enough to consider alternatives.

Your last paragraph is baffling to me. Again, we're not sure exactly how this is being presented, but if it's "you have to work with what we've got", I wouldn't blame any coach who would pass, and I'd expect the most sought after ones to do just that. If it's "we'd like you to try and develop EJ, but we're also committed to improving the QB position in any way possible", that is a much more enticing proposition.

Why do you think they're dictating anything??

As others have said, they're just being honest about the current situation (EJ on roster, weak QB class after top 2, weak QB FA) and want the new HC to be able to work with what they have.

I've seen no one saying any new HC can't look for a new QB next year if EJ still doesn't develop. Now that would be a terrible thing to dictate.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Baby Shanny wants a head coaching job. If they say play Manual, he will play him. If Shanny can turn him around, great. If not, and he plays poorly this year, the Bills will probably have a pretty high pick next year to start over. Manual has played enough before this year that if he doesn't turn it around this year, he is done with the Bills.

Saw this from a few days before Shanahan left the Browns and have heard similar sentiments from other Browns beat writers that they don't feel Kyle Shanahan is ready at this time to be a head coach. This article shares some information that Bills fans might be interested in.

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20150106/BLOGS/150109711/-1/blogs01

Shanahan isn't ready

Jan. 6, 2015 10:24 a.m.
SHANAHAN ISN'T READY

To say we don’t think Kyle Shanahan might land a head coaching job in the current hiring cycle is almost silly.

Of course he won’t.

• He’s 35 years old. The last wave of hires in that age group (with the exception of Mike Tomlin, who sparked the trend) backfired.

The head coaches in the final eight are Pete Carroll, 63; Bill Belichick, 62; John Fox, 59; Chuck Pagano, 54; Ron Rivera, 53 (as of his birthday tomorrow); John Harbaugh, 52; Mike McCarthy, 51, and Jason Garrett, 48.

The trend is to hire 40-something men with football and life experience. Mike Pettine, 48, fits that mold.

• In addition to needing more seasoning, he does not have a commanding personal presence, at least not yet.

• One of his 2014 quarterbacks, Brian Hoyer, got worse instead of better. Another, Johnny Manziel, contributed to a quarterback landscape Pettine calls “muddy at best.”

As a former QBs coach in charge of the offense, Shanahan’s work with both players was dubious.

• The Browns finished 23rd in yards per game and 27th in points per game. The previous year, when Norv Turner was offensive coordinator, they ranked 17th in yards and 27th in points.

• In his last five seasons, Shanahan has been on teams that went 6-10, 5-11, 10-6, 3-13 and 7-9.

• The Browns finished in a 1-6 slump largely because Shanahan’s offense died.

All of that said, Shanahan strikes us as a competent play designer with a chance to elevate the offense if the player pool stabilizes in 2015.

He is intelligent, organized and confident and could be a viable head coaching candidate down the road...

 

[dhockster]

Baby Shanny wants a head coaching job. If they say play Manual, he will play him. If Shanny can turn him around, great. If not, and he plays poorly this year, the Bills will probably have a pretty high pick next year to start over. Manual has played enough before this year that if he doesn't turn it around this year, he is done with the Bills.

Saw this from a few days before Shanahan left the Browns and have heard similar sentiments from other Browns beat writers that they don't feel Kyle Shanahan is ready at this time to be a head coach. This article shares some information that Bills fans might be interested in.

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20150106/BLOGS/150109711/-1/blogs01

Shanahan isn't ready

Jan. 6, 2015 10:24 a.m.
SHANAHAN ISN'T READY

To say we don’t think Kyle Shanahan might land a head coaching job in the current hiring cycle is almost silly.

Of course he won’t.

• He’s 35 years old. The last wave of hires in that age group (with the exception of Mike Tomlin, who sparked the trend) backfired.

The head coaches in the final eight are Pete Carroll, 63; Bill Belichick, 62; John Fox, 59; Chuck Pagano, 54; Ron Rivera, 53 (as of his birthday tomorrow); John Harbaugh, 52; Mike McCarthy, 51, and Jason Garrett, 48.

The trend is to hire 40-something men with football and life experience. Mike Pettine, 48, fits that mold.

• In addition to needing more seasoning, he does not have a commanding personal presence, at least not yet.

• One of his 2014 quarterbacks, Brian Hoyer, got worse instead of better. Another, Johnny Manziel, contributed to a quarterback landscape Pettine calls “muddy at best.”

As a former QBs coach in charge of the offense, Shanahan’s work with both players was dubious.

• The Browns finished 23rd in yards per game and 27th in points per game. The previous year, when Norv Turner was offensive coordinator, they ranked 17th in yards and 27th in points.

• In his last five seasons, Shanahan has been on teams that went 6-10, 5-11, 10-6, 3-13 and 7-9.

• The Browns finished in a 1-6 slump largely because Shanahan’s offense died.

All of that said, Shanahan strikes us as a competent play designer with a chance to elevate the offense if the player pool stabilizes in 2015.

He is intelligent, organized and confident and could be a viable head coaching candidate down the road...

Oh, I don't think Kyle should be a head coach. I just don't think the Bill's dictating who plays QB would prevent him from taking the job.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.

Who?

Seriously? You don't think there are any QBs out there who could be acquired for or drafted with a 1st round pick?

There's not a single one worth it, no.

 

[humpback]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

It's a philosophical issue- coaches don't want to be dictated to, they want to be free to play (and look to acquire) the best players. EJ may end up being that (shudder), but it sounds like Whaley doesn't even want to entertain that he isn't.

What's he supposed to say? They don't have any other QB on the roster. The draft sucks for QBs. The FA QB market is mediocre at best.He wouldn't be doing his job if:

A) He didn't try to sell their only current option. He would be doing the team a disservice if he didn't at least try to sell Manuel since outside of him they have zero clue who could be their QB next year and going forward and

B) He wasn't honest and upfront with prospective HCs about the state of the team's QB position. It's pretty obvious anyway, but he's not blowing smoke up their butts about trading for a QB, trading up in the draft, or anything unlikely like that. Better to be honest and weed out coaches that would want absolutely nothing to do with EJ.

And frankly, any coach that would reject the Bills job based solely on the current QB situation without even wanting to try to develop EJ more isn't a coach I want. This team has a ton of talent. If a coach doesn't think he can either work around EJ or make him better and utilize the rest of the talent, then good riddance.

How about "give me your analysis of our current QBs, and tell me how you would go about improving the play at the position"? It's absolutely asinine for an unproven (at best) front office to dictate to prospective new coaches what they have to do at QB (caveat- we don't really know what's going on for sure in these interviews, but based on the reporting). You can try and sell your current option while also being open minded enough to consider alternatives.

Your last paragraph is baffling to me. Again, we're not sure exactly how this is being presented, but if it's "you have to work with what we've got", I wouldn't blame any coach who would pass, and I'd expect the most sought after ones to do just that. If it's "we'd like you to try and develop EJ, but we're also committed to improving the QB position in any way possible", that is a much more enticing proposition.

Why do you think they're dictating anything??

As others have said, they're just being honest about the current situation (EJ on roster, weak QB class after top 2, weak QB FA) and want the new HC to be able to work with what they have.

I've seen no one saying any new HC can't look for a new QB next year if EJ still doesn't develop. Now that would be a terrible thing to dictate.

I thought I was pretty clear with the caveat, no? The speculation is based on

So, again, this is just a hypothetical exercise- it will all come down to what is actually happening behind closed doors, which we don't know.

Why should a new coach have to wait a full year though? If the coach puts in a lot of time analyzing EJ and doesn't feel like he can be the guy, and/or he still looks like garbage in camp, you don't think they should have the option to go in a different direction (hypothetically, of course)?

Basically, I don't want the possibly-soon-to-be-ousted GM making unilateral decisions that all of the other options stink and EJ is the best choice. I'd give good odds that one of the free agent QBs and/or one drafted outside of the top 2 will end up being better than EJ, and I'd want the coaches to help try and find that guy(s). Hopefully, they're doing that.

 

[humpback]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.

Who?

Seriously? You don't think there are any QBs out there who could be acquired for or drafted with a 1st round pick?

There's not a single one worth it, no.

But that's not the same thing. If there's a single QB available who would be an improvement over EJ, then having a 1st round pick would give you more ammo to acquire him.

 

[flysack]

Refresh my memory: wasn't Shanny The Elder the guy who traded Cutler out of Denver?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Refresh my memory: wasn't Shanny The Elder the guy who traded Cutler out of Denver?

It was Josh McDaniels who traded Cutler after Mike Shanahan left.

Mike Shanahan is the one who traded-up in the first round to draft Cutler without meeting him which completely fooled the rest of the league.

Trading Cutler also shocked the league but that was Josh McDaniels move.

The same Josh McDaniels who then drafted Tim Tebow to replace Cutler.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

Cutler says he can't trust McDanielsUpdated: March 17, 2009, 2:51 PM ET

Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler said Sunday night he has formally asked Denver to trade him and confirmed that a Saturday meeting with first-year coach Josh McDaniels ended badly from his perspective, while McDaniels offered another viewpoint on Sunday night...

 

[GroveDiesel]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.

Who?

Seriously? You don't think there are any QBs out there who could be acquired for or drafted with a 1st round pick?

There's not a single one worth it, no.

But that's not the same thing. If there's a single QB available who would be an improvement over EJ, then having a 1st round pick would give you more ammo to acquire him.

So any improvement over Manuel is worth a 1st round pick?

 

[humpback]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.

Who?

Seriously? You don't think there are any QBs out there who could be acquired for or drafted with a 1st round pick?

There's not a single one worth it, no.

But that's not the same thing. If there's a single QB available who would be an improvement over EJ, then having a 1st round pick would give you more ammo to acquire him.

So any improvement over Manuel is worth a 1st round pick?

Yes, of course it would be in this hypothetical. Which scenario is more desirable- the status quo at QB and no 1st round pick, or an improvement at QB and no 1st round pick?

How would having a 1st round pick not make it somewhat easier to improve the QB situation? The only way would be if there wasn't a single option that was better than EJ.

 

[OC Zed]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

The Jets can have Winston. I'm actually hoping for that perfect storm to happen.

8 teams remaining in the playoffs - three of them are led by QB's not taken in the first round.

Wilson 3rd rounder

Brady 6th rounder

Romo Undrafted

And these three are total outliers in the NFL (and have been for the last few years... Romo and Brady longer, obviously). Tampa (McCown), Houston (Fitzpatrick) and Tennessee (Mettenberger) are the only other teams to feature starting QBs drafted outside of the first two rounds. The first two teams benched those starters throughout the year and Mettenberger is a rookie with a lot of question marks. Historically, it has always been long odds to find a quality starting QB outside of the first two rounds.

 

[OC Zed]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.

Who?

Seriously? You don't think there are any QBs out there who could be acquired for or drafted with a 1st round pick?

Like who?

 

[OC Zed]

Pretty sure if they wanted Cutler, depending on who Chicago hires as HC and GM, they could just absorb his contract and Chicago would be pretty happy. I'd be floored if anyone gave a 1 for Cutler while also eating that ridiculous contract.

The only way Cutler gets moved is if Chicago eats a portion of his next year's salary and then they would still only get a third rounder (maybe a second round pick if they get really lucky).

 

[OC Zed]

Baby Shanny wants a head coaching job. If they say play Manual, he will play him. If Shanny can turn him around, great. If not, and he plays poorly this year, the Bills will probably have a pretty high pick next year to start over. Manual has played enough before this year that if he doesn't turn it around this year, he is done with the Bills.

Saw this from a few days before Shanahan left the Browns and have heard similar sentiments from other Browns beat writers that they don't feel Kyle Shanahan is ready at this time to be a head coach. This article shares some information that Bills fans might be interested in.

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20150106/BLOGS/150109711/-1/blogs01

This makes me confident that the Bills will name Kyle Shanahan as their next head coach.

 

[OC Zed]

I posted this in the Manuel thread...

I don't see how Whaley sticking with Manuel really affects the coaching search as there are no great viable alternatives in the draft or free agency this year. And every other team looking for a head coach aside from Atlanta is in the same situation as the Bills.

The Bills are sort of worse off since they don't have a first round pick. It makes it necessary to give Manuel a year under the next coach.

We would be no better off at QB if we had our first round pick. We were never getting Mariota or Winston.

A 1st round pick would give them a lot more ammo to trade for a QB.

Who?

Seriously? You don't think there are any QBs out there who could be acquired for or drafted with a 1st round pick?

There's not a single one worth it, no.

But that's not the same thing. If there's a single QB available who would be an improvement over EJ, then having a 1st round pick would give you more ammo to acquire him.

So any improvement over Manuel is worth a 1st round pick?

Yes, of course it would be in this hypothetical. Which scenario is more desirable- the status quo at QB and no 1st round pick, or an improvement at QB and no 1st round pick?

How would having a 1st round pick not make it somewhat easier to improve the QB situation? The only way would be if there wasn't a single option that was better than EJ.

But QB isn't the only position on your team. You can't overpay for some other QB while neglecting your other positions.

Moreover, what QB could they actually get with that 1st round pick? :crickets:

 

[humpback]

Yes, of course it would be in this hypothetical. Which scenario is more desirable- the status quo at QB and no 1st round pick, or an improvement at QB and no 1st round pick?

How would having a 1st round pick not make it somewhat easier to improve the QB situation? The only way would be if there wasn't a single option that was better than EJ.

But QB isn't the only position on your team. You can't overpay for some other QB while neglecting your other positions.

Moreover, what QB could they actually get with that 1st round pick? :crickets:

You guys aren't following. The Bills currently don't have a 1st round pick. Some people are saying that it wouldn't help them at QB if they did. So, if you temporarily gave them a 1st round pick and they then used it to acquire a QB, you would be no worse off than if you never had that 1st rounder (like right now). It doesn't matter if you "overpay" because it doesn't cost you anything- it's a 1st round pick that you don't have.

For starters, they could draft any QB who will be taken 19th overall or later. Or, they could use it in a package to try and move up and take one of the top 2.

I don't know what the going rate is for QBs in the league right now, but I'm guessing there are several you could acquire for the 19th overall pick (not that you would have to, but it would certainly make it easier to get them)- RGIII, Cutler, Glennon, Foles, Bradford, etc.

Again, how would having a 1st round pick not make it easier to improve the QB position?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Yes, of course it would be in this hypothetical. Which scenario is more desirable- the status quo at QB and no 1st round pick, or an improvement at QB and no 1st round pick?

How would having a 1st round pick not make it somewhat easier to improve the QB situation? The only way would be if there wasn't a single option that was better than EJ.

But QB isn't the only position on your team. You can't overpay for some other QB while neglecting your other positions.

Moreover, what QB could they actually get with that 1st round pick? :crickets:

You guys aren't following. The Bills currently don't have a 1st round pick. Some people are saying that it wouldn't help them at QB if they did. So, if you temporarily gave them a 1st round pick and they then used it to acquire a QB, you would be no worse off than if you never had that 1st rounder (like right now). It doesn't matter if you "overpay" because it doesn't cost you anything- it's a 1st round pick that you don't have.For starters, they could draft any QB who will be taken 19th overall or later. Or, they could use it in a package to try and move up and take one of the top 2.

I don't know what the going rate is for QBs in the league right now, but I'm guessing there are several you could acquire for the 19th overall pick (not that you would have to, but it would certainly make it easier to get them)- RGIII, Cutler, Glennon, Foles, Bradford, etc.

Again, how would having a 1st round pick not make it easier to improve the QB position?

Sure, and if they had 32 free first round picks they could probably trade for Tom Brady.

You act like just because it would be a first round pick that they don't have now, that it wouldn't have any value. Sure, if the Bills had the 19th pick in the draft they could trade it for Mike Glennon. But would Glennon really be enough of an upgrade to justify it over using the pick on a stud guard or OT? Or TE?

 

[humpback]

Yes, of course it would be in this hypothetical. Which scenario is more desirable- the status quo at QB and no 1st round pick, or an improvement at QB and no 1st round pick?

How would having a 1st round pick not make it somewhat easier to improve the QB situation? The only way would be if there wasn't a single option that was better than EJ.

But QB isn't the only position on your team. You can't overpay for some other QB while neglecting your other positions.

Moreover, what QB could they actually get with that 1st round pick? :crickets:

You guys aren't following. The Bills currently don't have a 1st round pick. Some people are saying that it wouldn't help them at QB if they did. So, if you temporarily gave them a 1st round pick and they then used it to acquire a QB, you would be no worse off than if you never had that 1st rounder (like right now). It doesn't matter if you "overpay" because it doesn't cost you anything- it's a 1st round pick that you don't have.For starters, they could draft any QB who will be taken 19th overall or later. Or, they could use it in a package to try and move up and take one of the top 2.

I don't know what the going rate is for QBs in the league right now, but I'm guessing there are several you could acquire for the 19th overall pick (not that you would have to, but it would certainly make it easier to get them)- RGIII, Cutler, Glennon, Foles, Bradford, etc.

Again, how would having a 1st round pick not make it easier to improve the QB position?

Sure, and if they had 32 free first round picks they could probably trade for Tom Brady.

You act like just because it would be a first round pick that they don't have now, that it wouldn't have any value. Sure, if the Bills had the 19th pick in the draft they could trade it for Mike Glennon. But would Glennon really be enough of an upgrade to justify it over using the pick on a stud guard or OT? Or TE?

Here is the initial comment: "We would be no better off at QB if we had our 1st round pick. We were never getting Mariotta or Winston."

They would clearly have a better chance to trade up and get Mariotta or Winston if they had their 1st round pick. If not, they could use that pick on any other QB in the draft, or trade it for any number of veterans (most likely getting a mid round draft pick or two back as well).

This isn't a discussion about whether they would be better off taking a guard, OT, TE or QB with a hypothetical 1st, it's about whether that hypothetical 1st could have helped their QB situation. Of course it could have- 1st round picks have value.

 

[msommer]

If the Bills had their first round pick they don't have Watkins. That's hardly no cost.

 

[humpback]

If the Bills had their first round pick they don't have Watkins. That's hardly no cost.

Completely different topic.

 

[ScottNorwood]

I'd say that cutting Manuel and spending their 5th, 6th and 7th round picks on QBs has a very good chance at improving the QB situation.

 

[OC Zed]

Yes, of course it would be in this hypothetical. Which scenario is more desirable- the status quo at QB and no 1st round pick, or an improvement at QB and no 1st round pick?

How would having a 1st round pick not make it somewhat easier to improve the QB situation? The only way would be if there wasn't a single option that was better than EJ.

But QB isn't the only position on your team. You can't overpay for some other QB while neglecting your other positions.

Moreover, what QB could they actually get with that 1st round pick? :crickets:

You guys aren't following. The Bills currently don't have a 1st round pick. Some people are saying that it wouldn't help them at QB if they did. So, if you temporarily gave them a 1st round pick and they then used it to acquire a QB, you would be no worse off than if you never had that 1st rounder (like right now). It doesn't matter if you "overpay" because it doesn't cost you anything- it's a 1st round pick that you don't have.For starters, they could draft any QB who will be taken 19th overall or later. Or, they could use it in a package to try and move up and take one of the top 2.

I don't know what the going rate is for QBs in the league right now, but I'm guessing there are several you could acquire for the 19th overall pick (not that you would have to, but it would certainly make it easier to get them)- RGIII, Cutler, Glennon, Foles, Bradford, etc.

Again, how would having a 1st round pick not make it easier to improve the QB position?

Sure, and if they had 32 free first round picks they could probably trade for Tom Brady.

You act like just because it would be a first round pick that they don't have now, that it wouldn't have any value. Sure, if the Bills had the 19th pick in the draft they could trade it for Mike Glennon. But would Glennon really be enough of an upgrade to justify it over using the pick on a stud guard or OT? Or TE?

Here is the initial comment: "We would be no better off at QB if we had our 1st round pick. We were never getting Mariotta or Winston."

They would clearly have a better chance to trade up and get Mariotta or Winston if they had their 1st round pick. If not, they could use that pick on any other QB in the draft, or trade it for any number of veterans (most likely getting a mid round draft pick or two back as well).

This isn't a discussion about whether they would be better off taking a guard, OT, TE or QB with a hypothetical 1st, it's about whether that hypothetical 1st could have helped their QB situation. Of course it could have- 1st round picks have value.

This is really, really dumb.

 

[flysack]

I'd say that cutting Manuel and spending their 5th, 6th and 7th round picks on QBs has a very good chance at improving the QB situation.

Roll them bones!

 

[humpback]

This is really, really dumb.

So I list several QBs they could get with a 1st rounder, and this is your response? :crickets:

 

[OC Zed]

This is really, really dumb.

So I list several QBs they could get with a 1st rounder, and this is your response? :crickets:

I was absolutely at the prospect of any team trading a first round pick for Cutler, Glennon, RG3, Foles or Bradford. And so would every GM in this league. Do you know how I know that? Because there are at least 15 other teams in the league that need QBs and that do have their first round picks and they aren't going to be looking to make that deal.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I have a hard time believing anybody really wants Ebron + this year's 19th as opposed to Watkins. Honestly, that's a no-brainer. Take the stud.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Also, it seems weird that nobody has filled their HC vacancies yet. Usually some teams have this wrapped up by now. Not saying that there's anything wrong with the Bills taking their time, of course, just that this is an odd hiring season.

 

[OC Zed]

Also, it seems weird that nobody has filled their HC vacancies yet. Usually some teams have this wrapped up by now. Not saying that there's anything wrong with the Bills taking their time, of course, just that this is an odd hiring season.

Sounds like the Jets want one of Seattle's assistants. I'm betting the other teams want to talk again with some of the assistants on the other playoff teams as well.

In re the Bills, I'm warming up to the notion of Frank Reich. Everyone has had good things to say about him and he'd be a good fit in Buffalo based on his history here and the current team needs.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In re the Bills, I'm warming up to the notion of Frank Reich. Everyone has had good things to say about him and he'd be a good fit in Buffalo based on his history here and the current team needs.

Me too. Everything I've read about him is that he's had a fast rise up the coaching ranks for a reason: bright, good motivator, high character. He's going to be a head coach for somebody in the very near future. This would not be a reach for us.

 

[humpback]

This is really, really dumb.

So I list several QBs they could get with a 1st rounder, and this is your response? :crickets:

I was absolutely at the prospect of any team trading a first round pick for Cutler, Glennon, RG3, Foles or Bradford. And so would every GM in this league. Do you know how I know that? Because there are at least 15 other teams in the league that need QBs and that do have their first round picks and they aren't going to be looking to make that deal.

Shocker, another response that has nothing to do with the question. You asked what QBs you could get with that pick, didn't you? Not that it makes any difference, but if it makes you feel better, add a later 1st rounder or a 2nd rounder back with the QB for their 1st.

 

[GroveDiesel]

In re the Bills, I'm warming up to the notion of Frank Reich. Everyone has had good things to say about him and he'd be a good fit in Buffalo based on his history here and the current team needs.

Me too. Everything I've read about him is that he's had a fast rise up the coaching ranks for a reason: bright, good motivator, high character. He's going to be a head coach for somebody in the very near future. This would not be a reach for us.

One year as a coordinator with very mixed results. If he had no prior connection to Buffalo, would we be having this discussion?

 

[humpback]

I have a hard time believing anybody really wants Ebron + this year's 19th as opposed to Watkins. Honestly, that's a no-brainer. Take the stud.

You weren't talking about the Bills being better off with or without the Watkins trade, you said they would be no better off at QB if they did have their pick because they weren't getting Mariotta or Winston. Not only is that not necessarily true, but you left out all of the other possible QBs they could get with their 1st.

That being said, if we want to speculate, I have a hard time believing anybody really wants Watkins over Beckham and this year's 19th. Honestly, that's a no-brainer. Take the stud.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In re the Bills, I'm warming up to the notion of Frank Reich. Everyone has had good things to say about him and he'd be a good fit in Buffalo based on his history here and the current team needs.

Me too. Everything I've read about him is that he's had a fast rise up the coaching ranks for a reason: bright, good motivator, high character. He's going to be a head coach for somebody in the very near future. This would not be a reach for us.

One year as a coordinator with very mixed results. If he had no prior connection to Buffalo, would we be having this discussion?

I know. It feels incestuous and our immediate impulse is to write this off as driven by sentiment.

But then you read about the guy and you get to understand why his coaching career has been so successful and why he's getting interviews from other teams. Reich has always had a good reputation for being cerebral, and also for being a good leader. That's the sort of combination that tends to do well in this line of work. Not saying it will with Reich, just saying that I get it and I would be okay with such a hire. The sentiment is nice, but that's not all that's driving this.

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying he's my top candidate. I'd still pick Rex knowing what little I know, and I would also be happy with several of the other 492 coordinators we've interviewed so far.

 

[humpback]

In re the Bills, I'm warming up to the notion of Frank Reich. Everyone has had good things to say about him and he'd be a good fit in Buffalo based on his history here and the current team needs.

Me too. Everything I've read about him is that he's had a fast rise up the coaching ranks for a reason: bright, good motivator, high character. He's going to be a head coach for somebody in the very near future. This would not be a reach for us.

One year as a coordinator with very mixed results. If he had no prior connection to Buffalo, would we be having this discussion?

I know. It feels incestuous and our immediate impulse is to write this off as driven by sentiment.

But then you read about the guy and you get to understand why his coaching career has been so successful and why he's getting interviews from other teams. Reich has always had a good reputation for being cerebral, and also for being a good leader. That's the sort of combination that tends to do well in this line of work. Not saying it will with Reich, just saying that I get it and I would be okay with such a hire. The sentiment is nice, but that's not all that's driving this.

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying he's my top candidate. I'd still pick Rex knowing what little I know, and I would also be happy with several of the other 492 coordinators we've interviewed so far.

Just curious- why do you consider his coaching career to have been so successful? He's only had one year as a OC, and it wasn't very good. Not that it was his fault, but the SD offense regressed quite a bit under him.

Also, do you know who else he's interviewed with? All I've heard is the Jets, and, well, they don't really count.

I think he could be good, but it would be quite the gamble.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In re the Bills, I'm warming up to the notion of Frank Reich. Everyone has had good things to say about him and he'd be a good fit in Buffalo based on his history here and the current team needs.

Me too. Everything I've read about him is that he's had a fast rise up the coaching ranks for a reason: bright, good motivator, high character. He's going to be a head coach for somebody in the very near future. This would not be a reach for us.

One year as a coordinator with very mixed results. If he had no prior connection to Buffalo, would we be having this discussion?

I know. It feels incestuous and our immediate impulse is to write this off as driven by sentiment.

But then you read about the guy and you get to understand why his coaching career has been so successful and why he's getting interviews from other teams. Reich has always had a good reputation for being cerebral, and also for being a good leader. That's the sort of combination that tends to do well in this line of work. Not saying it will with Reich, just saying that I get it and I would be okay with such a hire. The sentiment is nice, but that's not all that's driving this.

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying he's my top candidate. I'd still pick Rex knowing what little I know, and I would also be happy with several of the other 492 coordinators we've interviewed so far.

Just curious- why do you consider his coaching career to have been so successful? He's only had one year as a OC, and it wasn't very good. Not that it was his fault, but the SD offense regressed quite a bit under him.

From what I've gathered, SD had a lot of offensive injuries to deal with this year. So I'm discounting things a little in the "results" department.

No worries if we pass on Reich. That's fine. He's a gamble. He does seem to have a lot of backers out there though. Yes, that could be the same kind of agent-orchestrated buzz that Marrone crashed and burned with, but I don't get that same sense with Reich.

 

[OC Zed]

This is really, really dumb.

So I list several QBs they could get with a 1st rounder, and this is your response? :crickets:

I was absolutely at the prospect of any team trading a first round pick for Cutler, Glennon, RG3, Foles or Bradford. And so would every GM in this league. Do you know how I know that? Because there are at least 15 other teams in the league that need QBs and that do have their first round picks and they aren't going to be looking to make that deal.

Shocker, another response that has nothing to do with the question. You asked what QBs you could get with that pick, didn't you? Not that it makes any difference, but if it makes you feel better, add a later 1st rounder or a 2nd rounder back with the QB for their 1st.

They could do a lot of things with a first round pick. It doesn't mean that all of them would be a good idea. All of the QBs you listed would be a bad idea. Keep spinning your wheels here.

 

[OC Zed]

In re the Bills, I'm warming up to the notion of Frank Reich. Everyone has had good things to say about him and he'd be a good fit in Buffalo based on his history here and the current team needs.

Me too. Everything I've read about him is that he's had a fast rise up the coaching ranks for a reason: bright, good motivator, high character. He's going to be a head coach for somebody in the very near future. This would not be a reach for us.

One year as a coordinator with very mixed results. If he had no prior connection to Buffalo, would we be having this discussion?

I know. It feels incestuous and our immediate impulse is to write this off as driven by sentiment.

But then you read about the guy and you get to understand why his coaching career has been so successful and why he's getting interviews from other teams. Reich has always had a good reputation for being cerebral, and also for being a good leader. That's the sort of combination that tends to do well in this line of work. Not saying it will with Reich, just saying that I get it and I would be okay with such a hire. The sentiment is nice, but that's not all that's driving this.

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying he's my top candidate. I'd still pick Rex knowing what little I know, and I would also be happy with several of the other 492 coordinators we've interviewed so far.

Just curious- why do you consider his coaching career to have been so successful? He's only had one year as a OC, and it wasn't very good. Not that it was his fault, but the SD offense regressed quite a bit under him.

From what I've gathered, SD had a lot of offensive injuries to deal with this year. So I'm discounting things a little in the "results" department.

No worries if we pass on Reich. That's fine. He's a gamble. He does seem to have a lot of backers out there though. Yes, that could be the same kind of agent-orchestrated buzz that Marrone crashed and burned with, but I don't get that same sense with Reich.

A lot of the initial buzz came from Bill Polian. While I didn't want to see Polian back in Buffalo for a few reasons, I do give credence to his personnel evaluations.

 

[humpback]

This is really, really dumb.

So I list several QBs they could get with a 1st rounder, and this is your response? :crickets:

I was absolutely at the prospect of any team trading a first round pick for Cutler, Glennon, RG3, Foles or Bradford. And so would every GM in this league. Do you know how I know that? Because there are at least 15 other teams in the league that need QBs and that do have their first round picks and they aren't going to be looking to make that deal.

Shocker, another response that has nothing to do with the question. You asked what QBs you could get with that pick, didn't you? Not that it makes any difference, but if it makes you feel better, add a later 1st rounder or a 2nd rounder back with the QB for their 1st.

They could do a lot of things with a first round pick. It doesn't mean that all of them would be a good idea. All of the QBs you listed would be a bad idea. Keep spinning your wheels here.

So none of those QBs (or any drafted 19th overall or later this year) would be an improvement over EJ? If that's your argument, we'll agree to disagree. If any of those guys would be an improvement, having a 1st round pick would obviously help acquire them.

It's easier to improve at the QB position if you have a 1st round pick than if you don't- not sure why that's controversial.

 

[Borden]

Jerry Hughes asking for 7-8 annually and 12-15 guaranteed. What do you guys think? Worth it?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Jerry Hughes asking for 7-8 annually and 12-15 guaranteed. What do you guys think? Worth it?

Absolutely. That's a steal IMO.

 

[msommer]

Jerry Hughes asking for 7-8 annually and 12-15 guaranteed. What do you guys think? Worth it?

Absolutely. That's a steal IMO.

that seems like home town discount to me. Give him five years

 

[humpback]

Jerry Hughes asking for 7-8 annually and 12-15 guaranteed. What do you guys think? Worth it?

Is that based on this article, or have you seen something where he's said that himself? This just seems like speculation from the writer.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Chris Mortenson is reporting that if Marrone doesn't get a head coaching job, that he has a standing offer to be a "consultant" from O'Brian in Houston.

Lol, just the fact that one of the reporters saying that Marrone would be THE top coaching choice if he left the Bills is now having to put out such desperate info for Marrone is hilarious. I mean, if he can't even get an offensive coordinator position, that's really pathetic.

2 weeks ago all we heard was how he was the second coming of Vince Lombardi. Now he's reduced to being the guy on the sidelines urging the Texans to punt on their opponent's 11 yard line on 3rd down.

 

[flysack]

Watching the opening of this Pats-Ravens game, all I can think is, Mr. Pegula, hire Gary Kubiak and give Jim Scwartz a raise to stay.

:championship:

 

[Onions]

@AdamSchefter: Bills are bringing back former Jets HC Rex Ryan for a second interview tonight in Florida, per league sources.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Rex ERA begins

 

[humpback]

Watching the opening of this Pats-Ravens game, all I can think is, Mr. Pegula, hire Gary Kubiak and give Jim Scwartz a raise to stay.

:championship:

 

[IvanKaramazov]

@AdamSchefter: Bills are bringing back former Jets HC Rex Ryan for a second interview tonight in Florida, per league sources.

This pleases me.