2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (3 Viewers)

[Aaron Rudnicki]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2015/01/12/greg-roman-goes-buffalo-ending-term-egregiously-scapegoated-49ers-assistant-years/

Somehow, on a team run by Harbaugh, a large percentage of people associated with this franchise decided to blame Roman for every single offensive short-coming (of which there were many the past two seasons, no doubt).

For some reason, the presumption was: Roman is the one who got the 49ers to abandon the running game, who blew it at the end of the Super Bowl, who wouldn’t stay to the 2011 model of run, pound, ground, run some more.

That was always misguided. Or worse.

If you know the general philosophies of both guys, you know that Roman is generally a devotee of the physical power run game, so much so that Harbaugh basically gave Roman the run calls at Stanford and had other guys do the pass-plays (including Harbaugh, of course).

Roman had overall offensive responsibility with the 49ers, but again he was largely presumed to base everything on the power run game, which is one reason the 49ers so rarely called screen passes or general misdirection.

Screens and misdirection are set up for quicker, mobile linemen and more finesse-style offenses that get defenses flowing one way or the other, then counter that with the misdirection.

The 49ers under Roman were not meant to be finesse–at their best, they came right at you with power, you knew where they were headed, and they went there anyway. Or they play-actioned and went over the linebackers and safeties.

For this weird moment in 49ers time, Roman was the convenient scapegoat. The easy target who, when he drew fire, also meant that Harbaugh was getting hit, too, because he was loyal to Roman and knew that Roman wasn’t solely responsible.

Of course, I don’t think Roman had a great 2014, but neither did Kaepernick, the offensive line, Harbaugh, or any of the offensive staff. I don’t think Trent Baalke or Jed York had a great 2014.

Everybody was at fault. Certainly not just Roman, and maybe him less than most of the names I mentioned in the previous sentence.

Harbaugh was in on the game planning. Harbaugh was the guy relaying the plays from Roman to Kaepernick and he occasionally would change the play… and if you wonder if that’s why the 49ers had so much trouble with the play-clock, well, I think it’s certainly one of the reasons.

It was not because Roman was a bad coordinator. In fact, he’s very good.

By the way, if you think Roman is a pass-crazy nut, then you should be incredibly surprised that Ryan took about two seconds to hire him.

Ryan is a 100% defensive-minded coach. He’ll let Roman run the offense, the way Harbaugh let Vic Fangio run the defense with the 49ers.

Ryan will want Roman to run the ball with power. And Roman will have the Bills running the ball, because that’s his speciality. If you thought differently, you were thrown off by the 49ers weirdness, which has thrown off the logic of everything.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Also, I'm not sure why people think the Bills would force Schwartz to stay if he doesn't want to be there. They'd almost certainly let him leave if he wanted to.

of course.

doesn't make much sense to keep someone if they don't want to be there.

but, that doesn't mean they shouldn't also make an attempt to keep him if they feel he'd be an asset to the team.

there's been no report or rumor as of yet saying that he wants out. sounds like the decision is still being made.

This is exactly what I was saying a week or so ago, but you were on the opposite side.

Of course they should make an attempt to keep him. Never said otherwise

no, we were debating semantics mostly I think.

pretty sure at the end, it was clear that we weren't arguing opposite sides at all.

I never said he should be forced to stay.

 

[humpback]

No one is basing anything off of just one year- the Jets defense hasn't been great for several years, same goes for SF's offense. It doesn't make them bad hires, but it's reality.

do you think Ryan is a bad head coach? do you think Ryan is a bad defensive coach?

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. Who would you have wanted to hire instead?

I think the Jets defense while he was there and the Ravens defense before he left were consistently very good to great overall.

I think the jury is still out on Rex as a head coach. He has some things that I like about him and some that I don't, and he's had some good seasons and some bad. I think he is a very good defensive coach, but probably a bit overrated. Some people have been arguing that his defense was very good last year, and I'm not seeing that at all.

He was near the top of my list of HC candidates, but I'll have to consider the whole package. Not a huge fan of Roman, and won't be happy if they lose Schwartz, especially if they change schemes. I won't know how I'll feel about the hire until everything shakes out.

 

[Borden]

How's the cap situation here? Mark Ingram a possibility? He'd be such a great fit.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/11/7376451/nfl-salary-cap-nflpa-2015

According to this the Bills will have 17 mil in space. The Saints will be 20 mil OVER.

I looked a little more into this. According to Spotrac the Bills are stilling with a cap number of about 116 million and they are going with a 2015 cap of 138. They also have Spiller highlighted but included in the 116. So, with Spiller they have 22 mil of space. I also may be reading the numbers wrong. Here's the link in case you want to check.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2015/

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

He would likely need permission (unless it was worked into his contract), but they usually grant that permission. Again, it isn't good for anyone to force a guy to work for you if he doesn't want to.

yes, but I still believe that won't help his reputation if he forces his way out of Buffalo while under contract to take another coordinator job elsewhere. Especially if the only reason he does it is because he feels the team passed him over for the HC job.

If he were to leave for a coordinator spot somewhere else, his reputation would all depend on how it was handled. Many times it's at least portrayed as a "mutual decision", in which case his reputation would be fine. If he puts up a big stink publicly and acts like a child, sure, then his reputation would be hurt.

I don't want to make it seems like I think it's likely that this is going to happen, I just think it's a possibility where others seem to think there's no chance at all. Also, this is only one of the ways he could leave- it's entirely plausible that whoever they bring in as HC would want to hire his own coordinators as well.

I don't think we're really disagreeing much here.

bottom line for me (and I'm sure most others too) is that I'd like to see him kept as a coordinator but wouldn't want him to become the new HC. If they can't find a way to keep him happy in his current role under a new HC, then that would be disappointing. We'll see how things go.

bump for hump

at this point, I don't think anyone would hold it against him if he didn't feel like it was a good fit to stick around for one more year. it's up to Rex to sell him on staying now if he really wants him to.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Also, I'm not sure why people think the Bills would force Schwartz to stay if he doesn't want to be there. They'd almost certainly let him leave if he wanted to.

of course.doesn't make much sense to keep someone if they don't want to be there.

but, that doesn't mean they shouldn't also make an attempt to keep him if they feel he'd be an asset to the team.

there's been no report or rumor as of yet saying that he wants out. sounds like the decision is still being made.

This is exactly what I was saying a week or so ago, but you were on the opposite side.Of course they should make an attempt to keep him. Never said otherwise

no, I wasn't on the opposite side. we were debating semantics mostly I think.pretty sure at the end, it was clear that we weren't arguing opposite sides at all.

It just feels like it because this guy has gone out of his way to be negative and pick and argue with absolutely anything said in here.

 

[humpback]

Also, I'm not sure why people think the Bills would force Schwartz to stay if he doesn't want to be there. They'd almost certainly let him leave if he wanted to.

of course.

doesn't make much sense to keep someone if they don't want to be there.

but, that doesn't mean they shouldn't also make an attempt to keep him if they feel he'd be an asset to the team.

there's been no report or rumor as of yet saying that he wants out. sounds like the decision is still being made.

This is exactly what I was saying a week or so ago, but you were on the opposite side.

Of course they should make an attempt to keep him. Never said otherwise

no, I wasn't on the opposite side. we were debating semantics mostly I think.

pretty sure at the end, it was clear that we weren't arguing opposite sides at all.

You said he was under contract and that he couldn't easily leave. If he asks right now to be let out of his contract, I'm saying that they'll let him go- is that not easy?

Not just you either- this response was to Borden, who seems to think he's locked in, and I think Grove felt the same way during that discussion.

 

[humpback]

Hopefully Schwartz would learn from mistakes he made in Detroit, but I'd be surprised if he's the pick.

Surprised, and disappointed.

I'd be surprised as well, but they might be in a tough spot. He could bolt if he doesn't get the job, and he done great things for their defense. Wouldn't be my first choice, but not my last either.

He's under contract.

And? He could still easily leave.

Easily?I disagree.

Bump for AR.

 

[humpback]

It just feels like it because this guy has gone out of his way to be negative and pick and argue with absolutely anything said in here.

Sorry I don't just blindly agree with the things you make up.

 

[GroveDiesel]

How's the cap situation here? Mark Ingram a possibility? He'd be such a great fit.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/11/7376451/nfl-salary-cap-nflpa-2015According to this the Bills will have 17 mil in space. The Saints will be 20 mil OVER.

I looked a little more into this. According to Spotrac the Bills are stilling with a cap number of about 116 million and they are going with a 2015 cap of 138. They also have Spiller highlighted but included in the 116. So, with Spiller they have 22 mil of space. I also may be reading the numbers wrong. Here's the link in case you want to check.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2015/

They should be able to save another $3.5M cutting Chris Williams, Chris Gragg and Ron Brooks.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

You said he was under contract and that he couldn't easily leave. If he asks right now to be let out of his contract, I'm saying that they'll let him go- is that not easy?

Not just you either- this response was to Borden, who seems to think he's locked in, and I think Grove felt the same way during that discussion.

yes, he is under contract so I think that gives the team some leverage they obviously wouldn't have if he was not under contract. yes, I don't consider it easy to just say I want out to go be a DC somewhere else and the Bills would say, sure go ahead. It wasn't like he had a bad year, so him wanting to leave Buffalo for whatever reason before they even hired a new HC didn't seem like a likely scenario to me.

that's why I think it was mostly semantics. you might feel something is easy while I disagreed, but it doesn't mean it's not a viable possibility for him to leave. and I never argued he would/should be forced to stay if he wanted out.

I don't think leaving due to some possible philosophical differences between him and Ryan would be hard to understand. but him leaving due to a bruised ego if they hired someone like Frank Reich or whoever would be tougher imo.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think the jury is still out on Rex as a head coach. He has some things that I like about him and some that I don't, and he's had some good seasons and some bad. I think he is a very good defensive coach, but probably a bit overrated. Some people have been arguing that his defense was very good last year, and I'm not seeing that at all.

He was near the top of my list of HC candidates, but I'll have to consider the whole package. Not a huge fan of Roman, and won't be happy if they lose Schwartz, especially if they change schemes. I won't know how I'll feel about the hire until everything shakes out.

Wait, what? I thought you hated this hire. Or at least that's how it comes off.

 

[Borden]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2015/01/12/greg-roman-goes-buffalo-ending-term-egregiously-scapegoated-49ers-assistant-years/

Somehow, on a team run by Harbaugh, a large percentage of people associated with this franchise decided to blame Roman for every single offensive short-coming (of which there were many the past two seasons, no doubt).

For some reason, the presumption was: Roman is the one who got the 49ers to abandon the running game, who blew it at the end of the Super Bowl, who wouldn’t stay to the 2011 model of run, pound, ground, run some more.

That was always misguided. Or worse.

If you know the general philosophies of both guys, you know that Roman is generally a devotee of the physical power run game, so much so that Harbaugh basically gave Roman the run calls at Stanford and had other guys do the pass-plays (including Harbaugh, of course).

Roman had overall offensive responsibility with the 49ers, but again he was largely presumed to base everything on the power run game, which is one reason the 49ers so rarely called screen passes or general misdirection.

Screens and misdirection are set up for quicker, mobile linemen and more finesse-style offenses that get defenses flowing one way or the other, then counter that with the misdirection.

The 49ers under Roman were not meant to be finesse–at their best, they came right at you with power, you knew where they were headed, and they went there anyway. Or they play-actioned and went over the linebackers and safeties.

For this weird moment in 49ers time, Roman was the convenient scapegoat. The easy target who, when he drew fire, also meant that Harbaugh was getting hit, too, because he was loyal to Roman and knew that Roman wasn’t solely responsible.

Of course, I don’t think Roman had a great 2014, but neither did Kaepernick, the offensive line, Harbaugh, or any of the offensive staff. I don’t think Trent Baalke or Jed York had a great 2014.

Everybody was at fault. Certainly not just Roman, and maybe him less than most of the names I mentioned in the previous sentence.

Harbaugh was in on the game planning. Harbaugh was the guy relaying the plays from Roman to Kaepernick and he occasionally would change the play… and if you wonder if that’s why the 49ers had so much trouble with the play-clock, well, I think it’s certainly one of the reasons.

It was not because Roman was a bad coordinator. In fact, he’s very good.

By the way, if you think Roman is a pass-crazy nut, then you should be incredibly surprised that Ryan took about two seconds to hire him.

Ryan is a 100% defensive-minded coach. He’ll let Roman run the offense, the way Harbaugh let Vic Fangio run the defense with the 49ers.

Ryan will want Roman to run the ball with power. And Roman will have the Bills running the ball, because that’s his speciality. If you thought differently, you were thrown off by the 49ers weirdness, which has thrown off the logic of everything.

After reading Harbaugh's son letter I'd love to see Gore brought in. Not at his current price of course but if Gore and Jackson have 7 games (went with games instead of catch and carries but you know what I mean) each and a Brown and Boobie can pick up the rest, I think that would be a fun backfield. I say this because I think the 2nd and 3rd round picks should probably be OL and I don't think if reasonable to expect a 5th round or later pick to come in and be a reliable starter (at any position) as a rookie. I'm not saying they can't or haven't a bunch in the past it's just not something that should be planned for. Maybe a kicker but they aren't really football players

 

[humpback]

You said he was under contract and that he couldn't easily leave. If he asks right now to be let out of his contract, I'm saying that they'll let him go- is that not easy?

Not just you either- this response was to Borden, who seems to think he's locked in, and I think Grove felt the same way during that discussion.

yes, he is under contract so I think that gives the team some leverage they obviously wouldn't have if he was not under contract. yes, I don't consider it easy to just say I want out to go be a DC somewhere else and the Bills would say, sure go ahead.

that's why I think it was mostly semantics. you might feel something is easy while I disagreed, but it doesn't mean it's not a viable possibility for him to leave. and I never argued he would/should be forced to stay if he wanted out.

I don't think leaving due to some possible philosophical differences between him and Ryan would be hard to understand. but him leaving due to a bruised ego if they hired someone like Frank Reich or whoever would be tougher imo.

Man, you edit fast!

Fine, let's call it semantics I guess. There are still others who seem to think he has very little leverage because he's under contract, which is why I put that part in my reply.

 

[Borden]

How's the cap situation here? Mark Ingram a possibility? He'd be such a great fit.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/11/7376451/nfl-salary-cap-nflpa-2015According to this the Bills will have 17 mil in space. The Saints will be 20 mil OVER.

I looked a little more into this. According to Spotrac the Bills are stilling with a cap number of about 116 million and they are going with a 2015 cap of 138. They also have Spiller highlighted but included in the 116. So, with Spiller they have 22 mil of space. I also may be reading the numbers wrong. Here's the link in case you want to check.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2015/

They should be able to save another $3.5M cutting Chris Williams, Chris Gragg and Ron Brooks.

True but there is a couple of their UFAs that I think we would all like to see return who will eat quickly into that 22 million of space. Plus, the rookie contracts.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/buffalo-bills/

 

[GroveDiesel]

As an aside, in all this worrying about Schwartz, there hasn't been much consideration of who his replacement would be. By all accounts, Rex would bring in his DC from NY. From responses to Mike Rodak's tweet regarding Rex bringing a bunch of coaches with him, the general response by Jets fans is a resounding "good riddance." Except for Dunbar. Jets fans seem pretty upset about possibly losing Dunbar. So the end result could be bringing in a DC that is pretty good anyway.

 

[pantherclub]

No one is basing anything off of just one year- the Jets defense hasn't been great for several years, same goes for SF's offense. It doesn't make them bad hires, but it's reality.

do you think Ryan is a bad head coach? do you think Ryan is a bad defensive coach?

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. Who would you have wanted to hire instead?

I think the Jets defense while he was there and the Ravens defense before he left were consistently very good to great overall.

I think the jury is still out on Rex as a head coach. He has some things that I like about him and some that I don't, and he's had some good seasons and some bad. I think he is a very good defensive coach, but probably a bit overrated. Some people have been arguing that his defense was very good last year, and I'm not seeing that at all.

He was near the top of my list of HC candidates, but I'll have to consider the whole package. Not a huge fan of Roman, and won't be happy if they lose Schwartz, especially if they change schemes. I won't know how I'll feel about the hire until everything shakes out.

If I was the Bills and hadnt had any success in God knows how long I would have thrown the bank at Gus malzahn instead of hiring a retread coach. I think he is high risk/high reward. You are the Bills you have to get creative somehow. Keep Schwartz and let Gus revamp your offense. I think its only a matter of time before someone hires him and I would like to see what he can do.

 

[humpback]

I think the jury is still out on Rex as a head coach. He has some things that I like about him and some that I don't, and he's had some good seasons and some bad. I think he is a very good defensive coach, but probably a bit overrated. Some people have been arguing that his defense was very good last year, and I'm not seeing that at all.

He was near the top of my list of HC candidates, but I'll have to consider the whole package. Not a huge fan of Roman, and won't be happy if they lose Schwartz, especially if they change schemes. I won't know how I'll feel about the hire until everything shakes out.

Wait, what? I thought you hated this hire. Or at least that's how it comes off.

Well, it shouldn't. Here's my post on Rex prior to the hire:

If I was choosing from that last, I would take Rex without batting an eye. Admittedly I'm not very familiar with some of the coordinators, but Ryan has proven himself to be a solid HC who fell victim to a gutter-level GM.

I know the defense is already our (current) strength and in the short run it makes more sense to bring in an offense guy and keep Schwartz to manage the D, but I'd rather have a guy who can be here for 10 years, and it's only natural that the O/D balance will fluctuate over that time.

Edit: Not McDaniels, please.

Agree with Ryan. Outside of him (and he will probably have a few places to choose from), I'm having a hard time picking the others over Schwartz.

And here's my post after the hire:

I like Rex, although now it's going to be extremely important that they bring in someone good to handle the offense.

That being said, is anyone else not overly impressed with the Jets defense recently? He has a great reputation, but they haven't been good for a long time.

Just because I don't think the Jets defense has been great lately or that Rex is one of the top half dozen coaches in the league like you do doesn't mean I hate the hire.

 

[Borden]

You said he was under contract and that he couldn't easily leave. If he asks right now to be let out of his contract, I'm saying that they'll let him go- is that not easy?

Not just you either- this response was to Borden, who seems to think he's locked in, and I think Grove felt the same way during that discussion.

yes, he is under contract so I think that gives the team some leverage they obviously wouldn't have if he was not under contract. yes, I don't consider it easy to just say I want out to go be a DC somewhere else and the Bills would say, sure go ahead.

that's why I think it was mostly semantics. you might feel something is easy while I disagreed, but it doesn't mean it's not a viable possibility for him to leave. and I never argued he would/should be forced to stay if he wanted out.

I don't think leaving due to some possible philosophical differences between him and Ryan would be hard to understand. but him leaving due to a bruised ego if they hired someone like Frank Reich or whoever would be tougher imo.

Man, you edit fast!

Fine, let's call it semantics I guess. There are still others who seem to think he has very little leverage because he's under contract, which is why I put that part in my reply.

I will address this then I guess.

The Bills clearly want Swartz to stay since they didn't like the Washington interview him. He did a good job with the D and I think there is no reason to can him. I do also want him to stay. The only reason that I brought up the fact he can't leave (since he still has time on his contract) is because Marrone just bailed. The Bills aren't trying to convince to come to the team. He can't just decide to go somewhere else because he didn't get the HC job. If he is being a big baby and pouting about it and wants to leave then I agree, let him go. Bring in people that want to be there.

My stance on asking Swartz about Rex Ryan would be the same of any DC that could've been in that position with that experience.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Whether you like the choices or not, one huge advantage to Buffalo being the first team to hire a coach is having first shot at filling the rest of the staff. With the Broncos now getting rid of John Fox, there's a lot of open OC and DC jobs too. Hiring Rex now put the Bills in the driver's seat for picking his OC, DC and position coaches.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Whether you like the choices or not, one huge advantage to Buffalo being the first team to hire a coach is having first shot at filling the rest of the staff. With the Broncos now getting rid of John Fox, there's a lot of open OC and DC jobs too. Hiring Rex now put the Bills in the driver's seat for picking his OC, DC and position coaches.

And it's also smart by Rex to sign sooner as he doesn't have to compete with the newly available guys.

-QG

 

[Steve Tasker]

As an aside, in all this worrying about Schwartz, there hasn't been much consideration of who his replacement would be. By all accounts, Rex would bring in his DC from NY. From responses to Mike Rodak's tweet regarding Rex bringing a bunch of coaches with him, the general response by Jets fans is a resounding "good riddance." Except for Dunbar. Jets fans seem pretty upset about possibly losing Dunbar. So the end result could be bringing in a DC that is pretty good anyway.

Who is Dunbar? (serious question)

I'd heard he was going to bring in Dennis Thurman. Thurman is already listed as the Bills DC on Wikipedia, with no source/reference.

 

[humpback]

No one is basing anything off of just one year- the Jets defense hasn't been great for several years, same goes for SF's offense. It doesn't make them bad hires, but it's reality.

do you think Ryan is a bad head coach? do you think Ryan is a bad defensive coach?

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. Who would you have wanted to hire instead?

I think the Jets defense while he was there and the Ravens defense before he left were consistently very good to great overall.

I think the jury is still out on Rex as a head coach. He has some things that I like about him and some that I don't, and he's had some good seasons and some bad. I think he is a very good defensive coach, but probably a bit overrated. Some people have been arguing that his defense was very good last year, and I'm not seeing that at all.

He was near the top of my list of HC candidates, but I'll have to consider the whole package. Not a huge fan of Roman, and won't be happy if they lose Schwartz, especially if they change schemes. I won't know how I'll feel about the hire until everything shakes out.

If I was the Bills and hadnt had any success in God knows how long I would have thrown the bank at Gus malzahn instead of hiring a retread coach. I think he is high risk/high reward. You are the Bills you have to get creative somehow. Keep Schwartz and let Gus revamp your offense. I think its only a matter of time before someone hires him and I would like to see what he can do.

Nah. I'd agree if the Bills were still in the dumpster (spare us that argument), that might make sense to swing for the fences with an unknown. The team as currently constructed can make the playoffs with decent coaching.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

As an aside, in all this worrying about Schwartz, there hasn't been much consideration of who his replacement would be. By all accounts, Rex would bring in his DC from NY. From responses to Mike Rodak's tweet regarding Rex bringing a bunch of coaches with him, the general response by Jets fans is a resounding "good riddance." Except for Dunbar. Jets fans seem pretty upset about possibly losing Dunbar. So the end result could be bringing in a DC that is pretty good anyway.

Who is Dunbar? (serious question)

I'd heard he was going to bring in Dennis Thurman. Thurman is already listed as the Bills DC on Wikipedia, with no source/reference.

Karl Dunbar is their defensive line coach. The strength of the defense and entire team really.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Here's hoping Dunbar can get some kind of production out of our d-line.

 

[humpback]

You said he was under contract and that he couldn't easily leave. If he asks right now to be let out of his contract, I'm saying that they'll let him go- is that not easy?

Not just you either- this response was to Borden, who seems to think he's locked in, and I think Grove felt the same way during that discussion.

yes, he is under contract so I think that gives the team some leverage they obviously wouldn't have if he was not under contract. yes, I don't consider it easy to just say I want out to go be a DC somewhere else and the Bills would say, sure go ahead.

that's why I think it was mostly semantics. you might feel something is easy while I disagreed, but it doesn't mean it's not a viable possibility for him to leave. and I never argued he would/should be forced to stay if he wanted out.

I don't think leaving due to some possible philosophical differences between him and Ryan would be hard to understand. but him leaving due to a bruised ego if they hired someone like Frank Reich or whoever would be tougher imo.

Man, you edit fast!

Fine, let's call it semantics I guess. There are still others who seem to think he has very little leverage because he's under contract, which is why I put that part in my reply.

I will address this then I guess.

The Bills clearly want Swartz to stay since they didn't like the Washington interview him. He did a good job with the D and I think there is no reason to can him. I do also want him to stay. The only reason that I brought up the fact he can't leave (since he still has time on his contract) is because Marrone just bailed. The Bills aren't trying to convince to come to the team. He can't just decide to go somewhere else because he didn't get the HC job. If he is being a big baby and pouting about it and wants to leave then I agree, let him go. Bring in people that want to be there.

My stance on asking Swartz about Rex Ryan would be the same of any DC that could've been in that position with that experience.

I think we've beaten this horse enough, but the reason they didn't let Washington interview him is because they wanted to hire a HC first. If that HC wanted to retain him and they saw eye to eye on philosophy, etc., great. If not, they would agree to part ways. I don't think it would come to him pouting like a baby, at least not publicly- it would probably be portrayed as a "mutual decision".

So, no, he can't just decide to go somewhere else because he didn't get the HC job, but if he went to the Bills now and asked to be let go, I think they would without incident.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So, no, he can't just decide to go somewhere else because he didn't get the HC job, but if he went to the Bills now and asked to be let go, I think they would without incident.

Agreed. No-brainer.

 

[GroveDiesel]

So, no, he can't just decide to go somewhere else because he didn't get the HC job, but if he went to the Bills now and asked to be let go, I think they would without incident.

Agreed. No-brainer.

Isn't that what everyone else has said all along?

 

[Borden]

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2014 CAP HIT
STATUS
Kyle Orton QB 32 BUF TBD $4,000,000 UFA Jerry Hughes DE 26 BUF TBD $3,995,000 UFA Erik Pears G 32 BUF TBD $3,450,000 UFA Brandon Spikes ILB 27 BUF TBD $3,250,000 UFA Da'Norris Searcy S 26 BUF TBD $1,552,106 UFA Chris Hairston LT 25 BUF TBD $748,977 UFA Marcus Easley WR 27 BUF TBD $730,000 UFA Lee Smith TE 27 BUF TBD $688,401 UFA Jarius Wynn DE 28 BUF TBD $635,000 UFA Stevenson Sylvester ILB 26 BUF TBD $570,000 UFA Larry Dean OLB 26 BUF TBD $569,118 UFA Chris Hogan WR 26 BUF TBD $495,000 ERFA Corbin Bryant DT 27 BUF TBD $495,000 ERFA Jordan Gay P 24 BUF TBD $420,000 ERFA Marcus Thigpen RB 28 BUF TBD $167,647 RFA Deonte Thompson WR 25 BUF TBD $100,588 UFA Nick Sukay CB 25 BUF TBD - RFA

So, out of these guys how many are wanted back?

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Have you guys seen the recent topic of Revis vs Hughes and if you had the choice which one would you have?

With our cap space we could bring in Revis, but then again we wouldn't be able to keep Hughes.

I would totally be OK with signing Revis and letting Hughes walk. Hughes is replaceable. Revis is a game changer.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

wtf.....could you #######s let ryan out of the division??

 

[pantherclub]

No one is basing anything off of just one year- the Jets defense hasn't been great for several years, same goes for SF's offense. It doesn't make them bad hires, but it's reality.

do you think Ryan is a bad head coach? do you think Ryan is a bad defensive coach?

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. Who would you have wanted to hire instead?

I think the Jets defense while he was there and the Ravens defense before he left were consistently very good to great overall.

I think the jury is still out on Rex as a head coach. He has some things that I like about him and some that I don't, and he's had some good seasons and some bad. I think he is a very good defensive coach, but probably a bit overrated. Some people have been arguing that his defense was very good last year, and I'm not seeing that at all.

He was near the top of my list of HC candidates, but I'll have to consider the whole package. Not a huge fan of Roman, and won't be happy if they lose Schwartz, especially if they change schemes. I won't know how I'll feel about the hire until everything shakes out.

If I was the Bills and hadnt had any success in God knows how long I would have thrown the bank at Gus malzahn instead of hiring a retread coach. I think he is high risk/high reward. You are the Bills you have to get creative somehow. Keep Schwartz and let Gus revamp your offense. I think its only a matter of time before someone hires him and I would like to see what he can do.

Nah. I'd agree if the Bills were still in the dumpster (spare us that argument), that might make sense to swing for the fences with an unknown. The team as currently constructed can make the playoffs with decent coaching.

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

 

[Borden]

Have you guys seen the recent topic of Revis vs Hughes and if you had the choice which one would you have?

With our cap space we could bring in Revis, but then again we wouldn't be able to keep Hughes.

I would totally be OK with signing Revis and letting Hughes walk. Hughes is replaceable. Revis is a game changer.

Assuming it's Revis or Hughes for the same price, I would probably go with Revis too. Assuming each is getting a 3 year contract though. Any longer would be crazy. The Bills would get Revis at ages 30, 31, 32. I doubt he will be a top tier by 33.

I don't think that is a realistic option though. Either he will stay with the Patriots because they have a better chance of success or go somewhere that will give him huge money.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Kyle Orton QB 32 BUF TBD $4,000,000 UFA Jerry Hughes DE 26 BUF TBD $3,995,000 UFA Erik Pears G 32 BUF TBD $3,450,000 UFA Brandon Spikes ILB 27 BUF TBD $3,250,000 UFA Da'Norris Searcy S 26 BUF TBD $1,552,106 UFA Chris Hairston LT 25 BUF TBD $748,977 UFA Marcus Easley WR 27 BUF TBD $730,000 UFA Lee Smith TE 27 BUF TBD $688,401 UFA Jarius Wynn DE 28 BUF TBD $635,000 UFA Stevenson Sylvester ILB 26 BUF TBD $570,000 UFA Larry Dean OLB 26 BUF TBD $569,118 UFA Chris Hogan WR 26 BUF TBD $495,000 ERFA Corbin Bryant DT 27 BUF TBD $495,000 ERFA Jordan Gay P 24 BUF TBD $420,000 ERFA Marcus Thigpen RB 28 BUF TBD $167,647 RFA Deonte Thompson WR 25 BUF TBD $100,588 UFA Nick Sukay CB 25 BUF TBD - RFA
So, out of these guys how many are wanted back?

Obviously Hughes is the priority out of that group. I had to dig deep into my amazing body of football acumen for that nugget of wisdom.

Spikes, Searcy, Easley, Wynn, Hogan, and maybe Thigpen should all be resignable since there's no reason to think any of them would break the bank. None are irreplaceable either.

Not sure if Hairston is worth resigning. It seems counterproductive to let any o-linemen walk and surely he would come cheap. That said, Pears can walk.

So basically it's resign Hughes, which will cost some serious money. Resign some other guys assuming they're there for the right price. And then go into free agency with some money to spend on offensive linemen, any palatable quarterback, and maybe a running back.

 

[Borden]

Kyle Orton QB 32 BUF TBD $4,000,000 UFA Jerry Hughes DE 26 BUF TBD $3,995,000 UFA Erik Pears G 32 BUF TBD $3,450,000 UFA Brandon Spikes ILB 27 BUF TBD $3,250,000 UFA Da'Norris Searcy S 26 BUF TBD $1,552,106 UFA Chris Hairston LT 25 BUF TBD $748,977 UFA Marcus Easley WR 27 BUF TBD $730,000 UFA Lee Smith TE 27 BUF TBD $688,401 UFA Jarius Wynn DE 28 BUF TBD $635,000 UFA Stevenson Sylvester ILB 26 BUF TBD $570,000 UFA Larry Dean OLB 26 BUF TBD $569,118 UFA Chris Hogan WR 26 BUF TBD $495,000 ERFA Corbin Bryant DT 27 BUF TBD $495,000 ERFA Jordan Gay P 24 BUF TBD $420,000 ERFA Marcus Thigpen RB 28 BUF TBD $167,647 RFA Deonte Thompson WR 25 BUF TBD $100,588 UFA Nick Sukay CB 25 BUF TBD - RFA
So, out of these guys how many are wanted back?

Obviously Hughes is the priority out of that group. I had to dig deep into my amazing body of football acumen for that nugget of wisdom.

Spikes, Searcy, Easley, Wynn, Hogan, and maybe Thigpen should all be resignable since there's no reason to think any of them would break the bank. None are irreplaceable either.

Not sure if Hairston is worth resigning. It seems counterproductive to let any o-linemen walk and surely he would come cheap. That said, Pears can walk.

So basically it's resign Hughes, which will cost some serious money. Resign some other guys assuming they're there for the right price. And then go into free agency with some money to spend on offensive linemen, any palatable quarterback, and maybe a running back.

That's 17 guys that need to be replaced. The Bills have some cap space but considering some will go to rookies and they only have 22 million at their disposal, I don't think they can afford Hughes.

 

[humpback]

So, no, he can't just decide to go somewhere else because he didn't get the HC job, but if he went to the Bills now and asked to be let go, I think they would without incident.

Agreed. No-brainer.

Isn't that what everyone else has said all along?

You said this:

The only ways he can leave are if Buffalo fires him or he is offered and accepts another team's head coaching job. Or quits and goes to college I guess.

Or he could "retire", or they could agree to release him from his contract (would you really want to force the guy to stay and work for you if he wants out?), or....

He's a heck of a DC, hopefully they can keep him around.

And Borden said "I believe Swartz is under contract so you know he will stay" and "if Swartz wants to leave then he only has one more year".

So no, that isn't what everyone has said all along.

 

[humpback]

No one is basing anything off of just one year- the Jets defense hasn't been great for several years, same goes for SF's offense. It doesn't make them bad hires, but it's reality.

do you think Ryan is a bad head coach? do you think Ryan is a bad defensive coach?

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. Who would you have wanted to hire instead?

I think the Jets defense while he was there and the Ravens defense before he left were consistently very good to great overall.

I think the jury is still out on Rex as a head coach. He has some things that I like about him and some that I don't, and he's had some good seasons and some bad. I think he is a very good defensive coach, but probably a bit overrated. Some people have been arguing that his defense was very good last year, and I'm not seeing that at all.

He was near the top of my list of HC candidates, but I'll have to consider the whole package. Not a huge fan of Roman, and won't be happy if they lose Schwartz, especially if they change schemes. I won't know how I'll feel about the hire until everything shakes out.

If I was the Bills and hadnt had any success in God knows how long I would have thrown the bank at Gus malzahn instead of hiring a retread coach. I think he is high risk/high reward. You are the Bills you have to get creative somehow. Keep Schwartz and let Gus revamp your offense. I think its only a matter of time before someone hires him and I would like to see what he can do.

Nah. I'd agree if the Bills were still in the dumpster (spare us that argument), that might make sense to swing for the fences with an unknown. The team as currently constructed can make the playoffs with decent coaching.

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

I disagree that they need a huge spark, but Ryan provides that. They need a bit more talent on offense and decent coaching and they're a playoff caliber team.

 

[Borden]

Some "Early Roster Bubble" QBs:

http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/early-nfl-roster-bubbles-extension-candidates-500/

and

The free agent QBs:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/

I think the shortish list would include:

Schaub

Hoyer

Locker

Mallett

Ponder

Sanchez

For the record I'd not saying these guys are good but they need to bring in someone to compete with EJ. Is one of these guys potentially better than EJ or Tuel? Bring them all in even and work backwards cutting the worst until the final 53 has to set in the summer. I understand that won't happen.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

what does this mean?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Anyone wanting Revis is crazy. He clearly has lost a step and his age is catching up to him. Next year will only be worse and by 2016 he won't be star table IMO. And with the money he'll command he's not even close to being worth it. Gilmore, Graham and McKelvin are more than good enough.

Hughes, Searcy and Easley are the most important re-signings. Don't be surprised to see some deals redone to move money around.

 

[GroveDiesel]

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

what does this mean?

Seems especially weird seeing as how the Bills just went and got the most charismatic coach out there that always has his players fired up. Seems like a pretty big spark to me.

 

[Borden]

Anyone wanting Revis is crazy. He clearly has lost a step and his age is catching up to him. Next year will only be worse and by 2016 he won't be star table IMO. And with the money he'll command he's not even close to being worth it. Gilmore, Graham and McKelvin are more than good enough.

Hughes, Searcy and Easley are the most important re-signings. Don't be surprised to see some deals redone to move money around.

They have 6 other safeties, you don't think that they can replace Searcy? Rambo and the Williams maybe?

And you don't think Easley can be replaced on special teams?

Honest questions and I know it all depends on price point.

 

[pantherclub]

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

what does this mean?

rex is conservative, Roman is conservative

you need a little umph to your franchise and I really think gus is an outstanding mind. Being close in the NFL is still a long way away. Whats the worst case with Gus? Whats teh worst case with Ryan? seems about the same

 

[pantherclub]

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

what does this mean?

Seems especially weird seeing as how the Bills just went and got the most charismatic coach out there that always has his players fired up. Seems like a pretty big spark to me.

I think you are believing that because you want to believe it not because its true

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

what does this mean?

rex is conservative, Roman is conservative

you need a little umph to your franchise and I really think gus is an outstanding mind. Being close in the NFL is still a long way away. Whats the worst case with Gus? Whats teh worst case with Ryan? seems about the same

I don't understand this.

Rex is conservative? I don't think think of him that way. I think he's aggressive.

Doug Marrone was conservative. He was actually passive with his offensive decision making.

Malzahn is a huge wildcard. Could turn out pretty great, but I think it's just as likely he'd bomb as an NFL head coach. Even Nick Saban didn't stick around long with the Dolphins and I thought he was a sure thing.

 

[pantherclub]

you are still the bills though, IMO you need a huge spark instead of someone like Ryan

what does this mean?

rex is conservative, Roman is conservativeyou need a little umph to your franchise and I really think gus is an outstanding mind. Being close in the NFL is still a long way away. Whats the worst case with Gus? Whats teh worst case with Ryan? seems about the same

I don't understand this.Rex is conservative? I don't think think of him that way. I think he's aggressive.

Doug Marrone was conservative. He was actually passive with his offensive decision making.

Malzahn is a huge wildcard. Could turn out pretty great, but I think it's just as likely he'd bomb as an NFL head coach. Even Nick Saban didn't stick around long with the Dolphins and I thought he was a sure thing.

conservative in the sense that he is a retread coach. Conservative hire instead of swinging for the fences.

He has averaged 6 wins in the past 4 seasons in an absolute dog crap division.

 

[Borden]

I don't really disagree with you pantherclub (I said to bring in Mark Helfrich earlier in this thread even) but after discussion here I ended agreeing with other that he needs more time in college to see what he is all about. Malzahn may be in the same boat. I will look into his offense more but it seems to be a tough sell for an NFL team because unless you big old Cam Newton behind center, most teams don't like their QB running that much. I don't know enough about his offense but it seems like there is a lot of slow developing plays and QB runs. Again, I will look into it more though. Also, they run the crap out of that inside trap run.

 

[pantherclub]

I don't really disagree with you pantherclub (I said to bring in Mark Helfrich earlier in this thread even) but after discussion here I ended agreeing with other that he needs more time in college to see what he is all about. Malzahn may be in the same boat. I will look into his offense more but it seems to be a tough sell for an NFL team because unless you big old Cam Newton behind center, most teams don't like their QB running that much. I don't know enough about his offense but it seems like there is a lot of slow developing plays and QB runs. Again, I will look into it more though. Also, they run the crap out of that inside trap run.

I get it but I think Malzhan has a revolutionary offensive mind and can adapt to anything. Dude is a prodigy and someone in the NFL is going to take a chance on him. I think he probably is a smarter Chip Kelly. I just love watching auburn play and create mismatches and isolate certain players.

 

[fruity pebbles]

A lot of talk that Schwartz is gone tomorrow

 

[GroveDiesel]

A lot of talk that Schwartz is gone tomorrow

Sounds like it. And Thurman is the new DC with Rex calling the plays.

Only thing that I really mind a whole lot about that is the moving back to a 3-4. While I do think that the distinction between 3-4 and 4-3 is much smaller than it used to be with hybrid players, hybrid zone/man concepts and hybrid schemes, I do think that a base 4-3 seems overall a better fit. But they did do just fine under Pettine.

Could mean no Hughes though as the need for him would be diminished. Spikes probably gone. Manny Lawson may see a resurgence.