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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Ugh what a horrible deal. Lesean was cut worthy with that contract.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yeah, I like Shady, but with that contract and with this deep RB draft, the trade seems pretty questionable.
OC Zed
Footballguy
Wait, it gets better:
Jason La CanforaVerified account@JasonLaCanfora
McCoy and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, will make noise about wanting an extension and/ or declining to report. Bills bracing for that already
4:04 PM - 3 Mar 2015
Jason La CanforaVerified account@JasonLaCanfora
McCoy and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, will make noise about wanting an extension and/ or declining to report. Bills bracing for that already
4:04 PM - 3 Mar 2015
You guys always think the sky is falling
Great deal. Bills got a lot better.
Great deal. Bills got a lot better.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Eh - Aaron, we generally agree on these things, but I would've preferred the Bills just go after a RB in the draft. RBs have limited shelf-life and I hate overpaying (or even fairly-paying) for one. That's a position that I'd prefer to go bargain-bin on.
I know he's an elite offensive player, and that we don't know how good Kiko will be after the injury. But this isn't the way I want the Bills to build their team. It feels like they just got enamored with a shiny new toy and overpaid.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't buy that. McCoy may want some of the money guaranteed, but that will come at a cost. 26 year old RBs don't increase their value for sitting out.
And frankly, I think that's a straight up lie. Rosenhaus prides himself on his clients never holding out. And he has a great relationship with the Bills.
I bet the Bills end up guaranteeing some of the money for either an additional year or for a reduction in the overall money.
Devine Intervention
Footballguy
Losing kiko is no issue. Yea he looked good as a rookie under a great def scheme and behind an elite def line. There is no drop off with losing him.
I think the draft is a great spot to get a RB but Rex is doing it right. Got a gritty OL and building this team through defense and the running game.
I think the draft is a great spot to get a RB but Rex is doing it right. Got a gritty OL and building this team through defense and the running game.
Devine Intervention
Footballguy
I don't think there was a place for kiko in our defense. If Rex thought he was a key part to our defense he wouldn't have moved him. I think they like who they have and got something for kiko.
Do you honestly think Kiko wouldn't have played a lot of snaps for the Bills (if healthy)? To say that it's no issue and there's no drop off is basically saying that he's irrelevant.
Your logic doesn't make sense- I don't know how Rex viewed Kiko, but he certainly could have thought he was an important part to the defense and still moved him if he preferred McCoy.
Then you say the draft is a great spot to get a RB, but Rex is doing it right- he's essentially doing the opposite of that by getting the 2nd highest paid RB in the NFL when everyone else is devaluing the position. Lol @ the OL being "gritty", and the defense is already built- if anything it just got a little weaker.
flysack
Footballguy
Agree with Norwood. The Bills got better, yes, but the trade is just bad. We're getting an elite RB with a bloated contract for 3-4 years tops, and giving up an elite LB who would start for us for a decade. Along with the RB depth in this draft, it just doesn't make sense.
ETA: I don't buy that Kiko wouldn't start over Brown or Bradham. Seems irrelevant with Spikes all but gone. Why wouldn't the three of them start and form a great young LB corps?
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flysack
Footballguy
Devine Intervention
Footballguy
I was saying I would've rathered get an rb in the draft but I'm ok with McCoy. And getting incognito is a step to getting a gritty line.
I just don't think one good year as a rookie , playing in the most benificial situation for him is enough to say we lost an elite lb for a decade
I just don't think one good year as a rookie , playing in the most benificial situation for him is enough to say we lost an elite lb for a decade
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
We've been telling you the Bills can't use all 3 LBs in this scheme. They cashed in on a position of strength to address a weak spot.
Shutout
Footballguy
I don't get all the "draft a rb" talk. You toss that aprons like its a given That there is a proven rb out there that is as good as shady. That's asking a lot.
The bills dealt from the depth. That's how you do it. If there was one position the team could afford to deal from, it's lb.
So they got a star rb for a one hit wonder linebacker with a torn up knee AND the preserve their draft picks to draft, I dunno, offensive linemen or something.
Good deal for the bills. They got the more known in this. If this was three years ago, and the bills drafted trich, people would have praised the bills for not trading...for about five months. As good as rookies come advertised, they are not the same as a proven player
The bills dealt from the depth. That's how you do it. If there was one position the team could afford to deal from, it's lb.
So they got a star rb for a one hit wonder linebacker with a torn up knee AND the preserve their draft picks to draft, I dunno, offensive linemen or something.
Good deal for the bills. They got the more known in this. If this was three years ago, and the bills drafted trich, people would have praised the bills for not trading...for about five months. As good as rookies come advertised, they are not the same as a proven player
Watching McCoy and Watkins should be a lot of fun.
Alonso was great in coverage but kind of a liability against the run. I certainly expect him to improve in that part of his game, and it's not easy to part with a player I was excited to build around. But McCoy has the ability to be the best back in the league. Now I hope they can upgrade the line to give him a chance to reach his potential.
Brown, Bradham are a solid tandem inside and they can supplement the position still.
I totally get the people who think the RB position is not that important or hard to fill, but McCoy is one of the few that I think are worth a deal like this. It's a bit risky, but many thought Alonso would be an injury risk and have trouble staying on the field when drafted. ACL may not be significant but they already showed they can put together a dominant defense without him. The strength on the D line makes it easier to part with him.
Alonso was great in coverage but kind of a liability against the run. I certainly expect him to improve in that part of his game, and it's not easy to part with a player I was excited to build around. But McCoy has the ability to be the best back in the league. Now I hope they can upgrade the line to give him a chance to reach his potential.
Brown, Bradham are a solid tandem inside and they can supplement the position still.
I totally get the people who think the RB position is not that important or hard to fill, but McCoy is one of the few that I think are worth a deal like this. It's a bit risky, but many thought Alonso would be an injury risk and have trouble staying on the field when drafted. ACL may not be significant but they already showed they can put together a dominant defense without him. The strength on the D line makes it easier to part with him.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think a lot of people are overlooking Kiko's injury history. In 4 years he had surgery on his hip and 2 ACL tears. That's a pretty big concern IMO. I think fans also forget that Kiko started off his rookie year at an insane pace but hit a pretty big wall about halfway to 2/3 through the season. His coverage slipped a pretty good amount, he started getting lost in the wash on run plays and he was misreading a lot of plays as well. Now, one would hope that a lot of that was from being a rookie, but the truth about his rookie year was that it started off really strong and then tapered off quite a bit. If second half Kiko or injury-prone Kiko is what Philly is getting, then that's a problem for them.
I still hate how much McCoy costs against the cap, but you can't argue that he's not elite IMO.
I still hate how much McCoy costs against the cap, but you can't argue that he's not elite IMO.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I like the trade. Lean on a very good RB for 2-4 years as the QB we get in the draft next year learns the ropes. At that point, Watkins and Woods are still young, most of the OL should still be in their "prime" and we get a good TE.
Score.
Score.
If you watched McCoy last year, I don't know how you can argue that he is elite. Perhaps he had a nagging injury that he'll bounce back from, or maybe he got a little lazy and will be re-motivated with a change of scenery, but it could also be that he's simply wearing down.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I would love to see them add a guy like Orlando Franklin, but the Bills have done 2 big things already.
1) Added a headcase that was one of the best run blocking guards in the league before he got booted from it and
2) Are moving back to a man/gap control blocking scheme rather than a ZBS.
I thought the zone based blocking scheme was a bad fit for the personnel the Bills have and they were indeed terrible. I think a power/gap control scheme is a better fit for them. Cordy Glenn, Henderson, Richardson and Kouandjio all seem like a better fit in a power blocking scheme than a zone based.
I would love to see another proven piece brought in, but I'm hopeful that those 2 moves alone will pay big dividends.
That would still depend on McCoy being very good. All of the downside is with the Bills because of the contracts.
Borden
Footballguy
The McCoy price tag is a major issue in my opinion. McCoy is the second highest paid back in the league. AP being number 1. It's difficult to image the options available for that money not being better. Add in that Kiko would still be on the team/tradable.
I do get it though. And it's by no means a terrible trade. I do like seeing the Bills making moves and trying.
EJ is in an awesome spot now. The Bills are still have free agency and the draft to add pieces as well.
I do get it though. And it's by no means a terrible trade. I do like seeing the Bills making moves and trying.
EJ is in an awesome spot now. The Bills are still have free agency and the draft to add pieces as well.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Even after sleeping on it, I'm still not sure what I think about this trade. I think our 2015 team is pretty clearly stronger as a result of this trade than it would have been otherwise, so there's always that.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
The Bills are making me laugh this off season.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
They still have plenty of money for free agency. The salary cap hasn't been a biding constraint on this team since in eons.
flysack
Footballguy
I'm with Ivan here. Aaron and Grove are swaying me to the light as well. I just really liked Kiko.
There's a potential big problem though: there's reports that McCoy doesn't want to come to Buffalo. Maybe the Bills didn't have time to ask him how he felt about Rex and the Bills, but you'd think they ask the guy about how he'd accept the trade. Players can be a total pain if they don't like where they're going, especially when they have a complete ##### like Rosenhaus representing them.
ETA: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12415886/philadelphia-eagles-trade-lesean-mccoy-buffalo-bills
ETA II: Then there's reports that Chip and Shady didn't get along and he expected to be traded. Me suspects there's a ton of media smoke and assumptions going on. I'll wait for Shady official comments.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476256/article/winners-and-losers-from-lesean-mccoy-trade?campaign=Facebook_atn_rosenthal
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flysack
Footballguy
This. So much dead money came off the books this year (Stevie, Fitz) that they can afford a $10 million dollar RB. Especially since they won't be wrapping that up in a franchise QB anytime soon. Even if Manuel makes strides, he's under his rookie contract until 2017, right? And there's no big name QBs to sign.
Plus, as someone said, McCoy's cap figure actually declines over the next couple years.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Makes you wonder why they really didn't want Kiko. Eagles reportedly just wanted Lesean gone, if the Bills offered Kiko it sounds like they felt the same about him.
flysack
Footballguy
As others said above, the Bills have a logjam of really good young LBs, and Kiko was coming off a major injury, and had injury concerns coming out of college. Apparently he didn't fit Rex Ryan's scheme either, though I still don't get that as Pettine supposedly ran the same scheme and Kiko starred in it.
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Well, yeah, under Ralph and crew. Hopefully that "cash to cap" nonsense is done with now though.
I don't see how anyone can argue that it isn't better to have ~$30M in cap space vs. ~$20M, especially when they may lose one of their key players.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
It's gotta be the scheme thing. Thinking Rex didn't like what he saw against the run. If the deal only took 20 minutes, they were looking to unload Kiko nearly as much as the Eagles were looking to unload Lesean.
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