2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)

[humpback]

The McCoy price tag is a major issue in my opinion.

Who cares about that, unless you're Terry Pegula or one of his heirs?

Seriously? It means that they have less money to sign other players.

They still have plenty of money for free agency. The salary cap hasn't been a biding constraint on this team since in eons.

This. So much dead money came off the books this year (Stevie, Fitz) that they can afford a $10 million dollar RB. Especially since they won't be wrapping that up in a franchise QB anytime soon. Even if Manuel makes strides, he's under his rookie contract until 2017, right? And there's no big name QBs to sign.

Plus, as someone said, McCoy's cap figure actually declines over the next couple years.

Sure they can "afford" it, just like Philly could but decided against it. That doesn't make it a smart move, and it does limit their options going forward.

Have you seen the list of potential free agents next year?

 

[dhockster]

Eagles fan here: McCoy in 2014 was not nearly as good as McCoy in 2013. He always looked like he was trying for the 80 yard run and when it didn't develop he ended up with a lot of 2 and 3 yard losses. He had flashes of 2013 (The Dallas Thanksgiving game) but all in all he did not look nearly as explosive. He is entering his seventh year in the league as a starting RB so there is plenty of mileage on those legs. His decline could be pretty steep and pretty quick.

That being said, I don't think it was a bad move for the Bills. I think McCoy will be good in 2015 (just not elite) and they gave up somebody they didn't use last year. As for the cost, the Bills had plenty of cap space, so unless they were going to sign someone like Suh, this really shouldn't hinder too many other moves. They get his contract with no deferred money or guaranteed money, so basically if he does not work out this year, they can cut him next year with no dead money.

I also like the move for the Eagles, assuming the Eagles bring in a good RB to replace McCoy. They added a piece to their defense, and they now are about $46 million under the salary cap. I think they will be signing some other free agents.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Guys, call me crazy but I thought depth at LB was actually a good thing.

 

[humpback]

Guys, call me crazy but I thought depth at LB was actually a good thing.

It is- especially in a scheme like this and when one of the guys people are saying would have started over Kiko is a FA after the season. The Bills will almost certainly bring in at least one more LB (like Harris), so the argument that they are all set at the position doesn't hold water.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Guys, call me crazy but I thought depth at LB was actually a good thing.

It is- especially in a scheme like this and when one of the guys people are saying would have started over Kiko is a FA after the season. The Bills will almost certainly bring in at least one more LB (like Harris), so the argument that they are all set at the position doesn't hold water.

I think they can easily extend Bradham if they want to.

these stories about McCoy being upset seem dumb. no way he gets an extension with 3 years left on his deal. and it's not like playing in Buffalo is far away from home.

I think he'll be fine with Rex and Roman.

 

[humpback]

The McCoy price tag is a major issue in my opinion.

Who cares about that, unless you're Terry Pegula or one of his heirs?

Seriously? It means that they have less money to sign other players.

They still have plenty of money for free agency. The salary cap hasn't been a biding constraint on this team since in eons.

Well, yeah, under Ralph and crew. Hopefully that "cash to cap" nonsense is done with now though.

I don't see how anyone can argue that it isn't better to have ~$30M in cap space vs. ~$20M, especially when they may lose one of their key players.

I want them to have $0M of cap space.

I do as well (eventually), as long as it's spent wisely- otherwise they could just give McCoy $30M for this year and get it over with.

You do realize that unused cap space carries over to the following season...

 

[msommer]

The McCoy price tag is a major issue in my opinion.

Who cares about that, unless you're Terry Pegula or one of his heirs?

Seriously? It means that they have less money to sign other players.

They still have plenty of money for free agency. The salary cap hasn't been a biding constraint on this team since in eons.

Well, yeah, under Ralph and crew. Hopefully that "cash to cap" nonsense is done with now though.

I don't see how anyone can argue that it isn't better to have ~$30M in cap space vs. ~$20M, especially when they may lose one of their key players.

I want them to have $0M of cap space.

So does the NFLPA. Minimum spending rules are in effect

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Did I just hear something about Cassel?

 

[fruity pebbles]

Did I just hear something about Cassel?

Yep just traded for him

 

[humpback]

I want them to have $0M of cap space.

So does the NFLPA. Minimum spending rules are in effect

Not a factor here.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Well you guys certainly aren't boring this offseason

-QG

 

[MAC_32]

Well you guys certainly aren't boring this offseason

-QG

Gonna be plenty boring in season though.

 

[Sweet Love]

According to Rotoworld, Cassel and an undisclosed pick for two undisclosed picks.

 

[fruity pebbles]

According to Rotoworld, Cassel and an undisclosed pick for two undisclosed picks.

Championship. Bills should get a pick upgrade

 

[scothawk]

Bump E J Manuel

 

[12punch]

dat other shoe just dropped

cassel vs brady gonna be epic

 

[humpback]

There goes another $4.75M in cap space.

 

[FUBAR]

There goes another $4.75M in cap space.

oof.

Don't mind Cassel as a backup but if he has to start? Why not just sign Hoyer?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

There goes another $4.75M in cap space.

oof.

Don't mind Cassel as a backup but if he has to start? Why not just sign Hoyer?

seems like they wanted a low-price vet, but will probably be looking for a QB in the draft as well.

not crazy about Cassel, but I guess he's better than some alternatives.

 

[OC Zed]

There goes another $4.75M in cap space.

oof.

Don't mind Cassel as a backup but if he has to start? Why not just sign Hoyer?

seems like they wanted a low-price vet, but will probably be looking for a QB in the draft as well.

not crazy about Cassel, but I guess he's better than some alternatives.

This trade makes a lot of sense (assuming the picks aren't that costly). And I don't think this necessarily means Buffalo drafts a QB in the early rounds. Manuel will still be given a chance to compete against a veteran with a lot of experience.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

The McCoy price tag is a major issue in my opinion. McCoy is the second highest paid back in the league. AP being number 1. It's difficult to image the options available for that money not being better. Add in that Kiko would still be on the team/tradable.

I do get it though. And it's by no means a terrible trade. I do like seeing the Bills making moves and trying.

EJ is in an awesome spot now. The Bills are still have free agency and the draft to add pieces as well.

EJ just got alot better!!!

EJ just got better agian!

 

[12punch]

There goes another $4.75M in cap space.

oof.

Don't mind Cassel as a backup but if he has to start? Why not just sign Hoyer?

who says they won't?

what's o'connell up to -- maybe he's available

 

[flysack]

Cassell > McCown?

Kind of par there, right? Except Cassell is three years younger?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I like Cassell quite a bit more than the alternatives. Obviously a lot depends on the picks involved, but this team just got quite a bit better in the last 24 hours.

 

[msommer]

In the trade thread it is being mentioned that it was Cassell and a 6th for a 5th and a 7th. All 2015 picks

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In the trade thread it is being mentioned that it was Cassell and a 6th for a 5th and a 7th. All 2015 picks

That works. That's almost nothing.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

this seems like a good breakdown of the McCoy/Alonso trade:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/lesean-mccoy-kiko-alonso-trade-philadelphia-eagles-buffalo-bills/

 

[cstu]

I like Cassell quite a bit more than the alternatives. Obviously a lot depends on the picks involved, but this team just got quite a bit better in the last 24 hours.

If the Bills have to start Cassel - a downgrade from Orton last year - they're in trouble. At least he's a relatively cheap backup ($4.75).

 

[humpback]

I like Cassell quite a bit more than the alternatives. Obviously a lot depends on the picks involved, but this team just got quite a bit better in the last 24 hours.

Based on what?

 

[12punch]

5m is cheap for a back up?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I like Cassell quite a bit more than the alternatives. Obviously a lot depends on the picks involved, but this team just got quite a bit better in the last 24 hours.

If the Bills have to start Cassel - a downgrade from Orton last year - they're in trouble. At least he's a relatively cheap backup ($4.75).

I think Cassell is a little better than Orton - very similar passers but more mobile.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

5m is cheap for a back up?

no, it's not.

that's what Orton was going to make. also what McCown was making in Tampa as a starter. Minnesota signed him to be their starter.

I don't consider that a cheap backup, but it's not terrible.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I like Cassell quite a bit more than the alternatives. Obviously a lot depends on the picks involved, but this team just got quite a bit better in the last 24 hours.

If the Bills have to start Cassel - a downgrade from Orton last year - they're in trouble. At least he's a relatively cheap backup ($4.75).

not sure he's a downgrade. probably about equal imo.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Alex Marvez ‏@alexmarvez 54m54 minutes ago

Matt Cassel's salary in 2015 is $500K below the $5.25M guaranteed for @Browns QB Josh McCown this season. @Vikings @buffalobills @NFLonFOX

Alex Marvez @alexmarvez · 57m 57 minutes ago

Updated Matt Cassel #s: Original contract was tweaked. Now slated to earn $4.75M total in '15. $4.15M base, $500K roster/$100K workout bonus

Alex Marvez @alexmarvez · 1h 1 hour ago

Matt Cassel & Brian Hoyer were atop @buffalobills wish list for veteran QB after Josh McCown signed with @browns. @NFLonFOX
Alex Marvez @alexmarvez · 1h 1 hour ago

. @buffalobills swap their 1st 2015 5th-round pick for @Vikings 2015 6th-rounder and give Min a 2016 7th-rounder for Matt Cassel @NFLonFOX

 

[GroveDiesel]

I don't even.

So Matt Cassell handing off to LeSean McCoy with Incognito blocking in front.

 

[GroveDiesel]

This is maybe just kind of random and not directly related to the Bills, but I saw PFF's rating of Philly's O-line as being #1 in run blocking last year cited multiple times yesterday. And I like PFF and think they do great work. But it seemed weird to me because Philly had a ton of injuries last year n the O-line, especially on the interior. And they never seemed to impress me watching them (I live in the Philly area so I saw them quite a bit).

So I went to FootballOutsiders to see where they had Philly ranked last year just to get an idea of where their success came from and how well they did running in each direction. And it turns out that FO actually ranked Philly's run blocking as being 30th in the league!!! I mean, that's not even close.

It's bizarre because both sites are very analytical and advanced stats driven. Both of them are cited by football experts all over the place now. And they are ThAT far apart in their rating. It's crazy to me. Clearly, someone is just flat out wrong.

And maybe it's just wishful thinking and hope that McCoy's decline last year was not his fault, but after watching them and knowing how many injuries they had, I tend to think that FO is more correct than PFF.

It's still crazy to me for them to be that far apart though.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Eh, I'll take White Cassel over McCown (I guess).

Same tier player as the rest of the options... Sanchez, Hoyer, Locker, etc

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Recent Bills 5th round draft picks:

Cyril Richardson, OG

Jon Meeks, S

Zebrie Sanders, OT

Tank Carder, LB

Johnny White, RB

Ed Wang, OT

Nic Harris, LB

let's not get too upset over moving down from the 5th to the 6th.

 

[GroveDiesel]

The funny thing is that when you look at career player comps at ProFootballReference, the one name that keeps appearing over and over again for comps at different points in Cassel's career is: Kyle Orton.

Or maybe that's just funny if you are a self loathing Bills fan.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Recent Bills 5th round draft picks:

Cyril Richardson, OG

Jon Meeks, S

Zebrie Sanders, OT

Tank Carder, LB

Johnny White, RB

Ed Wang, OT

Nic Harris, LB

let's not get too upset over moving down from the 5th to the 6th.

I think it's more about being disappointed that they are going to pay $4.5M to a guy with no upside versus that amount or less for a Hoyer or Locker that may have some upside. And it cost them draft picks to do it too.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think it's more about being disappointed that they are going to pay $4.5M to a guy with no upside versus that amount or less for a Hoyer or Locker that may have some upside. And it cost them draft picks to do it too.

I agree with that. Not excited about Cassel at all. He's basically a placeholder out there at best.

Have to hope that EJ keeps him on the bench or they find a 3rd QB to put in the mix that surprises.

 

[humpback]

Recent Bills 5th round draft picks:

Cyril Richardson, OG

Jon Meeks, S

Zebrie Sanders, OT

Tank Carder, LB

Johnny White, RB

Ed Wang, OT

Nic Harris, LB

let's not get too upset over moving down from the 5th to the 6th.

Just because the Bills have struck out doesn't mean there isn't potential there- they could have instead drafted Mettenberger, Stills, etc.

The picks aren't all that valuable for sure, but neither is Cassel. Yet again I think they would have been better off going in a different direction.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think it's more about being disappointed that they are going to pay $4.5M to a guy with no upside versus that amount or less for a Hoyer or Locker that may have some upside. And it cost them draft picks to do it too.

I agree with that. Not excited about Cassel at all. He's basically a placeholder out there at best.

Have to hope that EJ keeps him on the bench or they find a 3rd QB to put in the mix that surprises.

I've been assuming that they would bring in a "placeholder" type plus one other guy, either another FA or somebody in the draft. I would not be happy going into the season with just Manuel + Random FA + Tuel.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

FTR,

Didn't like the move up to get Watkins.

Loved the Ryan hire.

Don't like the McCoy trade at all.

Casell? Meh, I'd probably rather have Hoyer.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I dislike the Cassell move. If Hoyer signs for similar some where else you would think the Bills missed a little more upside with Hoyer than Cassell who has proven to be a below average starter and should be a back up qb. In the Bills situation I don't get how they don't go after with guys with at least some long term upside like Hoyer or Locker.

I think the Bills are going to draft a QB in the early rounds this year and if not this year then next year for sure. One that they see as the next guy to take over as I think they are probably thinking Manuel is a bust at this stage. I am guessing they see Cassell as the place holder for the new guy they draft or if Manuel somehow turns his game around then he will take over.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Hoyer and Cassel aren't different enough to even care

 

[Borden]

I don't like the trades from a money aspect. 15 million in cap space gone before any FA bids.

However, I understand that the Bills have a small window open right now and like that they are going after it. I think trades also force the players to go to Buffalo. Being a cold weather team with the active record for playoffs missed isn't much of a selling point.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I may be wrong, but the Bills may have liked Cassel's that much more than Hoyer in large part due to the demolishing the Bulls defense did of Hoyer. You often see teams overate a player that has a huge game against them or write off a guy they demolish.

 

[humpback]

Hoyer and Cassel aren't different enough to even care

One is older, cost the team draft position, and will likely eat up more cap space this year. If they're the same player, give me the cheaper/younger one.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Hoyer and Cassel aren't different enough to even care

You could be right, but Hoyer is 29 and even if it is small has some potential to start for next 3-5 years. Cassell on the other hand is past his last chance.