2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (4 Viewers)

[The Duff Man]

When Rex joined, the defense had the one thing that all teams covet....the ability to get pressure and sacks while rushing four.  

Instead of using that, he broke it down.  Now they either blitz and can't cover....or rush 3 and try to cover, but with no pressure it is a matter of time and the offense still makes the play.

He should be fired for that alone.  

I can't imagine that there is a player on defense that was here two years ago that believes in what he is trying to do...the kool-aid has run out.  They probably all view him as the one who broke a good system that they had going because he wanted to put his stamp on the team.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I can't imagine that there is a player on defense that was here two years ago that believes in what he is trying to do...the kool-aid has run out.  They probably all view him as the one who broke a good system that they had going because he wanted to put his stamp on the team.

This was another point that they were hammering home on WGR last week.  Without trying to sound like a ####, Rex has been living off of his reputation for a long time now.  They speculated, and to an extent they're correct, that Rex made his name in the league right off the bat with some strong defenses and has largely been living off that reputation for years without really building on it.

Ravens D before Rex took over as DC in 2005 (yards/game rank, points/game rank):  1999 - 6/2, 2000 - 1/2, 2001 - 4/2, 2002 - 19/22, 2003 - 6/3, 2004 - 6/6
Ravens D with Rex as DC, 2005-2008:  2005 - 10/5, 2006 - 1/1, 2007 - 22/6, 2008 - 3/2

Jets D before Rex took over as HC in 2009:  2004 - 4/7, 2005 - 23/12, 2006 - 6/20, 2007 - 19/18, 2008 - 18/16
Jets D with Rex as HC:  2009 - 1/1, 2010 - 6/3, 2011 - 20/5, 2012 - 20/8, 2013 - 19/11, 2014 - 24/6

I hate to say it, but Rex is living off of a reputation he earned by inheriting a great Ravens defense from Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan, and two tremendous seasons to start his Jets career.  Everyone remembers how good those Jets teams were and they both went to the AFC title game, including beating the Patriots in the playoffs once.  But what has he really done since then?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Blow the whole thing up. Too many holes, too many injury prone players, too messed up of a salary cap, too many highly paid players that don't earn that money, too poor of a QB and coaching that is a joke. Blow it up and keep taking swings at a QB until one hits. THEN build the team.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Oh, and Harvin got put on the IR/NFI list. Again.

 

[humpback]

This was another point that they were hammering home on WGR last week.  Without trying to sound like a ####, Rex has been living off of his reputation for a long time now.  They speculated, and to an extent they're correct, that Rex made his name in the league right off the bat with some strong defenses and has largely been living off that reputation for years without really building on it.

Ravens D before Rex took over as DC in 2005 (yards/game rank, points/game rank):  1999 - 6/2, 2000 - 1/2, 2001 - 4/2, 2002 - 19/22, 2003 - 6/3, 2004 - 6/6
Ravens D with Rex as DC, 2005-2008:  2005 - 10/5, 2006 - 1/1, 2007 - 22/6, 2008 - 3/2

Jets D before Rex took over as HC in 2009:  2004 - 4/7, 2005 - 23/12, 2006 - 6/20, 2007 - 19/18, 2008 - 18/16
Jets D with Rex as HC:  2009 - 1/1, 2010 - 6/3, 2011 - 20/5, 2012 - 20/8, 2013 - 19/11, 2014 - 24/6

I hate to say it, but Rex is living off of a reputation he earned by inheriting a great Ravens defense from Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan, and two tremendous seasons to start his Jets career.  Everyone remembers how good those Jets teams were and they both went to the AFC title game, including beating the Patriots in the playoffs once.  But what has he really done since then?

I talked about this back when he was hired, but no one wanted to hear it.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Oh, and Harvin got put on the IR/NFI list. Again.

It was a good run.

I'm talking, of course, about his one significant contribution to the team since rejoining - the 11 yard run against Cincinnati. 

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I'd be willing to pay whatever it takes for Romo.

Let's play this game... What would everyone be willing to give up to get Romo, and buyout Tyrod?

2017 1st and 2018 1st?

2017 2nd and 2018 1st?

2017 2nd, 4th and 2018 2nd and 4th?

2017 2nd and 2018 2nd?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Let's play this game... What would everyone be willing to give up to get Romo, and buyout Tyrod?

2017 1st and 2018 1st?

2017 2nd and 2018 1st?

2017 2nd, 4th and 2018 2nd and 4th?

2017 2nd and 2018 2nd?

Nothing. This team is not even close to being a super bowl contender and Room is not the long term solution. Stop playing for right now. Do everything possible to tear it down and take as many shots at drafting a stud QB as it takes. 

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Nothing. This team is not even close to being a super bowl contender and Room is not the long term solution. Stop playing for right now. Do everything possible to tear it down and take as many shots at drafting a stud QB as it takes. 

I don't know who they're going to be able to keep on the defense next year, but I do think they are close. A good QB, that can actually get the ball to Watkins and Clay, and I think there would be a few more wins on the record this year. Add some WR and OL depth in the draft, and I think they'd be in much better shape.

 

[humpback]

The QB position is obviously extremely important, but IMO they need to clean house up front first and let them make those decisions. I don't think they need a complete tear down on the field, but they do in the front office and coaching staff.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Like half of Buffalo's roster are slated to be free agents this year. And they have virtually no salary cap space. Let's face facts fellas, this team is a teardown.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/buffalo-bills/

 

[humpback]

Like half of Buffalo's roster are slated to be free agents this year. And they have virtually no salary cap space. Let's face facts fellas, this team is a teardown.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/buffalo-bills/

Most of those guys are irrelevant, and you didn't seem too concerned about the salary cap when we discussed it with the Shady and Tyrod contracts. 

IMO the players aren't the biggest problem with the team- if they actually had a competent front office and coaching staff, they'd be contenders right now.

 

[flysack]

Like half of Buffalo's roster are slated to be free agents this year. And they have virtually no salary cap space. Let's face facts fellas, this team is a teardown.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/buffalo-bills/

Zach Brown is the only one I hope they keep.

If they can resign Justin Hunter at the vet minimum, I'd take it. He's a valuable backup and fade option in the endzone.

 

[Tommy Collins]

Zach Brown is the only one I hope they keep.

If they can resign Justin Hunter at the vet minimum, I'd take it. He's a valuable backup and fade option in the endzone.

Zach Brown, yes definitely.

Robert Woods will probably command more than we can afford to pay. Look at the Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu contracts this past off-season.

After week 1 against the Ravens the Bills signed Felton back. The run game has been very good. I'd like to bring him back. There isn't a high demand for FBs so he shouldn't cost us too much.

Alexander is 33 and I can't imagine many teams are going to open their wallets too much for a guy who will be 34 next season. I have to imagine he still wants to play after finally experiencing success. I would like to bring him back on a cost effective deal.

Chris Gragg was a late round guy that the team was hopeful for before his injury. I have to assume he would sign for minimum. I'd like to at least give the kid a shot. Not that it matters if Tyrod is the QB as he can't utilize Clay as it is.

The rest I don't mind letting go. I don't want IK on the team even if he played for free. Rex likes him but I've seen absolutely nothing out of him to suggest he's an rosterable.

 

[OC Zed]

What are the odds that Buffalo pulls the trigger on Chad Kelly in the 2nd or 3rd rounds?

 

[Tommy Collins]

What are the odds that Buffalo pulls the trigger on Chad Kelly in the 2nd or 3rd rounds?

I thought he was a projected 7th rounder ?

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Zach Brown, yes definitely.

Robert Woods will probably command more than we can afford to pay. Look at the Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu contracts this past off-season.

After week 1 against the Ravens the Bills signed Felton back. The run game has been very good. I'd like to bring him back. There isn't a high demand for FBs so he shouldn't cost us too much.

Alexander is 33 and I can't imagine many teams are going to open their wallets too much for a guy who will be 34 next season. I have to imagine he still wants to play after finally experiencing success. I would like to bring him back on a cost effective deal.

Chris Gragg was a late round guy that the team was hopeful for before his injury. I have to assume he would sign for minimum. I'd like to at least give the kid a shot. Not that it matters if Tyrod is the QB as he can't utilize Clay as it is.

The rest I don't mind letting go. I don't want IK on the team even if he played for free. Rex likes him but I've seen absolutely nothing out of him to suggest he's an rosterable.

I generally agree with this, but Woods and Gilmore are not going to be easy to replace. Those aren't usually positions where you can expect a rookie to come in and start (and play well.)

 

[OC Zed]

I thought he was a projected 7th rounder ?

It's been a while, but I saw projections as high as the 2nd.  Of course, many of those came before this season flamed out for him.  Still, I'm betting a strong-armed QB with some mobility and success in a major conference will garner more than a very late round selection.  

 

[Tommy Collins]

I generally agree with this, but Woods and Gilmore are not going to be easy to replace. Those aren't usually positions where you can expect a rookie to come in and start (and play well.)

I agree. But I don't see how the team can afford to pay Woods what the market will dictate. And Gilmore wants to be paid like an elite CB but doesn't play like one. Not ideal, but neither is overpaying.

 

[OC Zed]

I've been a big Tyrod Taylor fan these last couple seasons, but I think the nail in the coffin for me was when I started saying to myself last Sunday that we would have won if only Kyle Orton was our QB.  That's when you know this just isn't going to work.  

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I agree. But I don't see how the team can afford to pay Woods what the market will dictate. And Gilmore wants to be paid like an elite CB but doesn't play like one. Not ideal, but neither is overpaying.

Well, we have to see what the market dictates. I honestly don't think Woods will get quite what Marvin Jones got, though I think he's deserving. And other teams know Gilmore had an off year, so I don't think he'll get anywhere near top 3 CB money, but who knows... We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

What are the odds that Buffalo pulls the trigger on Chad Kelly in the 2nd or 3rd rounds?

UDFA.   He's a punk.  Even if he was healthy he would barely be draftable.  

 

[OC Zed]

UDFA.   He's a punk.  Even if he was healthy he would barely be draftable.  

Here's what I found from a quick Google search.  Take it for what it's worth:

3rd round: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2017/QB

Top rated senior QB: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/bad-nfl-draft-crop-of-quarterbacks-gets-worse-with-chad-kellys-torn-acl/

4th - 6th rounds: https://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Here's what I found from a quick Google search.  Take it for what it's worth:

3rd round: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2017/QB

Top rated senior QB: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/bad-nfl-draft-crop-of-quarterbacks-gets-worse-with-chad-kellys-torn-acl/

4th - 6th rounds: https://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php

Was that before or after he tried to fight high school kids?  

Before or after he had more recent pictures of him smoking weed? 

 

[flysack]

Before or after he had more recent pictures of him smoking weed? 

You do realize this like saying he drinks beers? Weed smoking is freaking legal in a bunch of states. This isn't the age of reefer madness.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

You do realize this like saying he drinks beers? Weed smoking is freaking legal in a bunch of states. This isn't the age of reefer madness.

You do realize it's against the rules in the NFL?  I don't care what your take is on it and how much you smoke.  Rules are rules.  And an NFL team is not going to want their qb suspended cause he likes to get high.  

And also, we live in NY.  And at the moment, it's still illegal and against the law to smoke weed. 

 

[flysack]

You do realize it's against the rules in the NFL?  I don't care what your take is on it and how much you smoke.  Rules are rules.  And an NFL team is not going to want their qb suspended cause he likes to get high.  

And also, we live in NY.  And at the moment, it's still illegal and against the law to smoke weed. 

And I'm saying that culture is changing, and a big spearhead of it is our former starting RT. Med marijuana just passed in NY. It's 100% legal just across the border in Mass. People inside and outside the league are catching on to the insane hypocrisy of the NFL's decades long blind eye to rampant opiate abuse but hardline stance on marijuana. Yes, Tunsil's draft spot tumbled on draft day due to a bong smoking pic, but he's been a total steal for the Dolphins. I just don't think many teams will be as wary of a guy with a mild weed smoking violation anymore.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/26791/bills-not-yet-turning-to-cardale-jones-but-rookie-qb-feels-ready

Seriously? People are clammoring for Cardale when there's still a chance they can get to 10 wins?

Don't get me wrong, as soon as they are mathematically eliminated, I'm all for throwing him out there to get a glimpse of what he can do, and to get him some game experience.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Cardale Jones will never be the answer at QB. He could be a backup, that's it.

I don't know why so many teams seem to ignore accuracy and the ability to read a defense. Arm is a nice plus, but I'll take an average arm with great accuracy and ability to read a defense over a big arm every single time.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Cardale Jones will never be the answer at QB. He could be a backup, that's it.

I don't know why so many teams seem to ignore accuracy and the ability to read a defense. Arm is a nice plus, but I'll take an average arm with great accuracy and ability to read a defense over a big arm every single time.

I totally agree. My brother and I (Big Ten fans) were both disgusted with that pick, but if they're out of the race, get him some game action to see what he looks like. We all know EJ is terrible. I suspect Cardale will be just as bad, but it would be better to cement that assessment sooner than later.

 

[Tommy Collins]

http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/26791/bills-not-yet-turning-to-cardale-jones-but-rookie-qb-feels-ready

Seriously? People are clammoring for Cardale when there's still a chance they can get to 10 wins?

Don't get me wrong, as soon as they are mathematically eliminated, I'm all for throwing him out there to get a glimpse of what he can do, and to get him some game experience.

I'd just prefer they lose this week and put me out of my misery. This team has lost so many games they had no business losing that I'm just waiting for that to happen if they somehow beat Pittsburgh. I am officially defeated again. It's growing harder and harder to get excited for next season. Especially since I can't realistically say that anything is going to change. Rex will still be HC. Even if we retain everybody on both sides of the ball, it's obviously not enough to get us over the hump. It's unlikely we're able to do that, and with the current cap situation, we won't be able to significantly improve enough. 

This team is built to win now. They aren't going to be able to sustain it for much longer. They need to swing for the fences in 2017. Tono fricken Romo.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Saw some vague tweet that says that if the Broncos lose to New England and Oakland (finish 9-7), the Dolphins lose 2 of the 4 (Arizona/Jets/Bills/Patriots), and the Bills get to 9-7, the Bills will have the tiebreakers and make the playoffs (assuming AFC North 2nd place doesn't get to 9-7).  Anyone know where that was coming from?

I'm expecting a lifeless loss to Pittsburgh this week, but I'm still interested in the scenarios until they're mathematically out.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Saw some vague tweet that says that if the Broncos lose to New England and Oakland (finish 9-7), the Dolphins lose 2 of the 4 (Arizona/Jets/Bills/Patriots), and the Bills get to 9-7, the Bills will have the tiebreakers and make the playoffs (assuming AFC North 2nd place doesn't get to 9-7).  Anyone know where that was coming from?

I'm expecting a lifeless loss to Pittsburgh this week, but I'm still interested in the scenarios until they're mathematically out.

I was looking at it earlier today, and I guess it seems plausible. I don't know how they'd win a tiebreaker over Miami, though. Miami has the better division record.

That said, I kind of hope it isn't accurate. I don't want to come away with a loss this weekend and have some 1 in a million shot at the playoffs. I hope, if they lose this weekend, it's just over. 

 

[Steve Tasker]

I was looking at it earlier today, and I guess it seems plausible. I don't know how they'd win a tiebreaker over Miami, though. Miami has the better division record.

That said, I kind of hope it isn't accurate. I don't want to come away with a loss this weekend and have some 1 in a million shot at the playoffs. I hope, if they lose this weekend, it's just over. 

If the Bills beat Miami and the Jets, and Miami also loses to either the Jets or Patriots, the Bills and Dolphins will both be 3-3 in the division.  3rd tiebreaker after H2H and division record is common games....no idea who wins that one.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I can't remember the last time it really snowed for an extended period of time at a home game.  Looking forward to today.  Stay warm, everyone.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I'm expecting a lifeless loss to Pittsburgh this week

 

[humpback]

Way to go out on a limb there. 

 

[Steve Tasker]

Bills still have yet to beat the Steelers in the current millennium.

 

[humpback]

There are dozens of reasons why Rex has to go, but he should never get another job in the NFL again based on how badly he's screwed up the defense. Just pathetic.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There are dozens of reasons why Rex has to go, but he should never get another job in the NFL again based on how badly he's screwed up the defense. Just pathetic.

I was saying this last week after the Oakland game.  I get that it's hard to find a QB and its probably not Ryan's fault that Taylor didn't work out.  But the defense is just a disgrace at this point and that's completely on Ryan.

 

[The Duff Man]

It takes a special kind of incompetance to take a good defense, invest your top three picks on the front 7 then coach your way to two opponents running for more than 200 yards in one season when this has only happened once in the HISTORY of the team (in regulation)

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Just saw that CBS Sports was saying before this game that Rex could be fired tomorrow if they lost. Considering how bad the team, and especially defense played, I won't be surprised at all if that happens.

This defense is underachieving in an insane way, and the offensive scheme, and play calling has been driving me crazy all year. I hate to have to start over AGAIN, but it looks like it might be inevitable.

 

[Tommy Collins]

Just saw that CBS Sports was saying before this game that Rex could be fired tomorrow if they lost. Considering how bad the team, and especially defense played, I won't be surprised at all if that happens.

This defense is underachieving in an insane way, and the offensive scheme, and play calling has been driving me crazy all year. I hate to have to start over AGAIN, but it looks like it might be inevitable.

It was La Canfora saying that, and he is wrong more often than he is right when it comes to the Bills. 

But since we're looking ahead to 2017 now, what is the right direction for Buffalo if they fire Rex? The thing that gets me is that a good percentage of the coaches that were recently hired are winning because the side of the ball that is not their specialty is getting them there. For instance, Atlanta has Dan Quinn, former Seahawks DC, winning with their offense. Del Rio in Oakland. Just a few examples, but I think too much emphasis is placed on whether or not the guy is offensive or defensive minded. They need to look at whether or not the guy has HC abilities, leadership abilities, rather than if he has had good success at building an offense or defense. 

Having said that, there's nobody out there that really entices me. I guess McDaniels, but he's been waiting for a good opportunity and I'm not so sure Buffalo is that. Whoever takes over is going to inherit a team in the middle of a schematic change from a 4-3 to a 3-4. We've been playing this back and forth game for years and constantly addressing that side of the ball because we get a new DC who runs the opposite system. So now that we have let go of a bunch of guys from our successful 2014 defense, if Rex is fired we'll likely be heading back to a 4-3. 

I know Whaley gets a lot of criticism but I've liked him. He's put more talent on this team than we have had in a long time. It seems like the Pegulas picked Rex and it was at a time when there was some question as to whether or not he would be retained, so I would have to assume he went along with what the new ownership wanted as their HC. It certainly didn't make sense for him to have to fix what he built when it wasn't broken. He's better at evaluating defensive talent than he is on the offensive side. I'd like to see him stay and the team to hire a HC who prioritizes talent over scheme. Preferably I'd like to get Schwartz and Henderson back. I don't know where Henderson ended up, but Schwartz isn't leaving Philly unless it were for the HC job, which is what I originally wanted to happen when Maronne opted out. 

We have a couple of years left before we need to scrap the team and go full rebuild.

I say hire a HC who has a ####### clue and sign Tony Romo. Put all your chips in the middle of the table.

 

[flysack]

Just saw that CBS Sports was saying before this game that Rex could be fired tomorrow if they lost. Considering how bad the team, and especially defense played, I won't be surprised at all if that happens.

This defense is underachieving in an insane way, and the offensive scheme, and play calling has been driving me crazy all year. I hate to have to start over AGAIN, but it looks like it might be inevitable.

I hate to say the Pegulas effed up with their first shot, but they hired a guy who completely screwed up a SB-caliber defense and assembled a couple star offensive players who can never stay healthy. And then there's the enigma that is Tyrod Taylor.

Blow it all up. Keep some key pieces, but ditch the leadership: the Ryans, Tyrod.

 

[flysack]

 but I think too much emphasis is placed on whether or not the guy is offensive or defensive minded. They need to look at whether or not the guy has HC abilities, leadership abilities, rather than if he has had good success at building an offense or defense. 
 

100% agree with this.

 

[flysack]

I know there were issues in KC, but Todd Haley seems to have matured and would be coming from a winning franchise - not just a winning team, but a whole damn organization that wins, top to bottom. I think the best thing that guy did was work for the Rooneys and Tomlin. He's worth a look.

 

[flysack]

. So now that we have let go of a bunch of guys from our successful 2014 defense, if Rex is fired we'll likely be heading back to a 4-3. 
 

I don't think going back to a 4-3 would be all that tough. Ragland can be a Luke Keuckly type of 4-3 MLB. Lawson is a hybrid guy anyway. He played DE in college. Hughes has actually had more success as a 4-3 DE than OLB. Zach Brown has the speed to be a good 4-3 OLB. The front seven still seems fine for 4-3 scheme.

Hughes-Williams(Washington)-Dareus-Lawson

Brown-Ragland-(Brown?)

That can be good.

 

[JaxBill]

Rex Ryan is 14-15.

That's one game under .500.

Or 32 games Above Gus Bradley. 

(14-47)

#FireGus 

 

[Gandalf]

Going to the game on 12/24. At least the tickets just got cheaper...

 

[Gandalf]

I hate to say the Pegulas effed up with their first shot, but they hired a guy who completely screwed up a SB-caliber defense and assembled a couple star offensive players who can never stay healthy. And then there's the enigma that is Tyrod Taylor.

Blow it all up. Keep some key pieces, but ditch the leadership: the Ryans, Tyrod.

I agree. The D was top 5 until Rex got there and mucked it all up.  The bills should change at QB and ideally get rid of Rex but they won't because of his contract. At least go into next season with better QB.