On The Rocks
Footballguy
The good news is Rex Ryan has been fired. The bad news is the next ex-Bills coach is on the way.
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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Good. The guy proved himself to be the clownshow everyone said he is.
There are so many things to criticize: the trash talking, undisciplined players, poor in-game management, lack of accountability, hiring his brother, and on and on, but for me it comes down to one simple fact: the defensive "genius" took a team with the #1 defense in the league, forced a million changes, and turned it into a joke. The truth is that if the defense had been good this year, the Bills would have made the playoffs. The defense cost them multiple games.
Bills benching Tyrod on Sunday for EJ:
Ian Rapoport
✔@RapSheet
When some in upper management wanted to bench Tyrod Taylor, it was Rex Ryan who kept him on the field. GM Doug Whaley wants to see EJ Manuel
11:24 AM - 27 Dec 2016
Ian Rapoport
✔@RapSheet
When some in upper management wanted to bench Tyrod Taylor, it was Rex Ryan who kept him on the field. GM Doug Whaley wants to see EJ Manuel
11:24 AM - 27 Dec 2016
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Get ready man, we're going
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
The "wants to see EJ Manuel" thing can't be true. Tyrod is due $30+ million if he suffers a serious injury in this game. If you're not going to pick up the option, might as well start EJ. Cardale must be pretty far off from being able to play though.zeeshan2 said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is seriously stupid. Whatever you think of Tyrod Taylor and whether he's worth the option or not, he is clearly much better than EJ Manuel. If you want to bench Taylor to see what Cardale Jones can do, that's fine with me. Benching him because you want to take another look at Manuel is just ####### idiotic and reeks of a GM who can't cut his losses.zeeshan2 said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
On the other hand, EJ gives us as good a chance as anybody to lose to the Jets, thereby diverting attention from the increasingly-likely scenario where a win against the Dolphins would have broken our playoff drought.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
As a Jets fan, good luck with that. The players quit on Bowles back after the KC 2 months ago. Although, on any given Sunday, there might be a team willing to lose more like SF against the Jets 2 weeks ago. We always win a meaningless game to screw up our draft position, so maybe there is hope for you after all.
flysack
Footballguy
I see this then. Especially if Manuel starts and they give the second half to Cardale for the hell of it.
Gandalf
Footballguy
As Steve Tasker mentioned, it's nothing to do with "wanting to see EJ Manuel" and everything to do with protecting themselves from a Tyrod Taylor injury and what that would cost them. From a Bills fan perspective it's probably smart. Morning radio in Buffalo has been talking about that for weeks now.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
If you were Tyrod, how would you feel about this?
Would you be disgusted and angry because you poured your heart and soul into the team and did everything you could to make the team better and wanted to be rewarded for it?
Or are you going to respond similar to Doug Marrone, and be thankful for the option to get out of Dodge with an opportunity to make a go of it someplace else where the inmates don't run the asylum?
Would you be disgusted and angry because you poured your heart and soul into the team and did everything you could to make the team better and wanted to be rewarded for it?
Or are you going to respond similar to Doug Marrone, and be thankful for the option to get out of Dodge with an opportunity to make a go of it someplace else where the inmates don't run the asylum?
Gandalf
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
I would be mad. And then I would remember that this is a business where if I don't produce consistently at a high level and win big games that I will be a back up. And then I would train even harder to get better. But that's just me.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think agents need to start to reevaluate the worth of these injury guarantees. Griffith and Kaepernick went through the same thing. At some point teams may consider it too potentially costly to play their own starter.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't think Taylor is 'the answer', and I also don't think the Bills are very far from returning to the playoffs. It's kind of absurd that Miami is in the playoffs but the Bills are not, it's almost like the Phins got there with Buffalo's blueprint. Really I think just need an All-Pro quality QB and a better HC to put them over the top.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
In fairness, the Dolphins showed everybody that you can make the playoffs with a mediocre quarterback.
flysack
Footballguy
If Tyrod had made himself absolutely necessary by playing better, then he wouldn't be in this position.
Drew Brees isn't in this position, and he isn't going to the playoffs either.
Same with Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Phillip Rivers, etc.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
Pro Football Talk now posting on their blog that Doug Whaley will lead the HC search.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/27/bills-announce-doug-whaley-will-lead-head-coaching-search/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/27/bills-announce-doug-whaley-will-lead-head-coaching-search/
flysack
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If you're going to keep your GM, you have to let him pick the next coach. That's how a normal, functional franchise handles this sort of thing. And then his ### is gone if the guy he picks doesn't pan out.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Most GMs only get 2 coaches. I guess it's possible that Whaley never picked either of the HCs hired under his tenure, but this is rare for a GM to be around for a 3rd HC selection.
I'm not sure where the comments are coming from, but I've seen a couple of Buffalo reporters reporting now that there has been chaos and a total #### show from top to bottom inside the organization. If I was the Pegulas, I'd be taking those comments very seriously and doing some digging before giving Whaley a free pass.
flysack
Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000764800/article/bills-gig-boasts-positives-negatives-for-future-head-coach
Rosenthall and others think retaining Whaley is one of the drawbacks of anyone taking the Bills HC job.
The guy has butted heads with both his head coaches and drafted fairly poorly.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lynn ends up the HC.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I don't know much about the Bills situation but the one thing I do know is that changing your HC every 2 or 3 years is not a winning formula. In the last 20 years the Bills have had 7 head coaches, not including 2 interim head coaches. It is pretty hard to establish anything when you're given such a small window.
Whoever the Bills hire should get a minimum of 4 years.
Whoever the Bills hire should get a minimum of 4 years.
You don't need to be an insider to see that the organization has been chaotic from top to bottom, but now the Pegula's are on top- my fear is that they are part of the problem.
I agree in general, but giving bad head coaches a long leash is not a winning formula either.
Most times, the reason teams are looking for a head coach is because they aren't very good, and the owners have unrealistic expectations that someone is going to come in and make them good overnight. When that doesn't happen, they get impatient and try it again with someone else. The Bills situation was somewhat unique- they had a playoff caliber team, and the only reason there was a HC vacancy was because they gave Marrone that dumb clause where he could opt out while still getting paid. 2 years of underachieving is enough for Rex, especially considering he has several others like that on his resume. He has proven to be a poor head coach, no reason to allow him to hold the team back another year.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
It's a disgrace that Whaley wasn't at today's press conference. Made Lynn sit there and lie/look like a stooge.
Braktastic
Footballguy
It didn't see the press conference. What was he lying about? Honestly, if Lynn keeps the head coaching job without a honest to goodness candidate search, then it is pretty obvious that ownership and the GM just want someone they can control. As a 49ers fan, I can tell you how well that typically goes. Best of luck Bills fans.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
He said that they made the decision to start EJ together. That was after saying he didn't have a say and it was a business decision earlier. So clearly Whaley made the call, Lynn said as much, and then was told that he was to say it was a joint decision. What a joke. Whaley taking ZERO responsibility for the garbage and dysfunction.
Braktastic
Footballguy
flysack
Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000764800/article/bills-gig-boasts-positives-negatives-for-future-head-coach
Rosenthall and others think retaining Whaley is one of the drawbacks of anyone taking the Bills HC job.
The guy has butted heads with both his head coaches and drafted fairly poorly.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lynn ends up the HC.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I generally agree with you, but the Bills have hired some epically bad coaches. They couldn't attract anybody else when Ralph was alive, and we struck out with Rex (who drove a very good defense into the ground). The way I see it, they are now 0-1 when it comes to hiring HC. I'm ignoring the Chan Gaileys and **** Jaurons of the world.Godsbrother said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Also, while we are in the process of identifying people who need to be fired, Russ Brandon should go too. Your marketing guy should not have a role in football decisions.
And, of course, whoever handles strength and conditioning.
And, of course, whoever handles strength and conditioning.
Last edited by a moderator:
flysack
Footballguy
Super King
Footballguy
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
I don't get the hate on Whaley. But for the record, he didn't pick Marrone. And there is speculation and belief that he wanted Hue Jackson & Brandon and the Pegulas wanted Rex. Brandon said not to let Rex leave and a contract offer was made very quickly. I remember reading a news article that Jackson was surprised about the situation. He stated that he felt the team was happy with where the defense was and wanted Schwartz to stay as DC and he was happy to do that. He didn't seem to understand why they would hire a defensive minded coach when the defense was already good. Ignoring his record, Jackson has been creative and able to score some points with the mess of Kessler/RGIII/McCown there in Cleveland. They have such little talent on the offensive line as well and been able to run the ball at the same time. If we got Jackson and kept Schwartz the playoff drought would have ended.Gandalf said:
But anyways... If it's true Whaley didn't pick Marrone, and wanted Hue but owners and Brandon picked Rex, it would make sense that they wouldn't hold Whaley responsible for Rex not working out. It would also make sense as to why he's going to lead the search this time. Let him pick his guy and if it doesn't work he's held responsible for it. If he didn't pick either HC, how can you blame him for butting heads with them?
Yes, the team doesn't have a lot of their own draft picks. But there is no denying that this team is talented enough to make the playoffs. We were the #4 overall defense before Rex came to town. And we are #7 in points scored this season. We have lost some talent on the defensive side, but enough to fall 15-20 spots? No. This team isn't built to win much longer though, due to age and salary cap. We are also due to lose Gilmore, Woods and Zach Brown this off-season. I'm not a big fan of Whaley saying that Woods is their top priority this off-season. If he gets a contract similar to what guys like Sanu and Marvin Jones Jr got this off-season, we're overpaying. We definitely need WR help, but with our cap situation and limited passing game, I think we can get similar production at a much cheaper price elsewhere.
It is crap that the owners & Whaley weren't there to explain the decision about EJ starting over Tyrod and leaving Lynn out to dry. There's no excuse for that. Whoever made that decision needs to stop making decisions for this team because they clearly don't have a backbone.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/29/tyrod-taylor-to-be-evaluated-for-groinhernia-surgery/
What a #### show Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon have made the Bills.
flysack
Footballguy
Since news of Whaley being retained broke, some are saying its more evidence that the Pegulas have no idea what they're doing. Buffalo's culture needs to change from top to bottom. They need to clean house, hire a football czar guy to run a GM and coaching search, and begin aligning the program from God to kicker.
Just read that Tyrod will most likely pass physical after surgery so this prob won't come into play. Who knows at this point though.GroveDiesel said:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/29/tyrod-taylor-to-be-evaluated-for-groinhernia-surgery/
What a #### show Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon have made the Bills.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Isn't it a 30 day recovery? Unless he waits until preseason to get the surgery which forces him to miss a game, I don't see how this is a thing. I have a hard time believing he could purposely delay the surgery so to get his guaranteed money.
Wait, didn't you love the extension for the Bills?GroveDiesel said:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/29/tyrod-taylor-to-be-evaluated-for-groinhernia-surgery/
What a #### show Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon have made the Bills.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
And some like it. Not everybody is going to be in agreement. I'm glad they're letting Whaley pick his coach, because since he's been GM, it doesn't sound like he's been able to do that yet. I would argue that the owners going against their GM's wishes and hiring a HC they felt was better was evidence that they don't know what they were doing. Which may be why they're letting Whaley pick his guy this time, since they got it wrong when they did it.
I don't like the idea of a full tear down. The team is built to win now. We are going to have to rebuild in the very near future, but that process can be very long if we don't land good picks etc etc. You can blame Whaley for not having a lot of our own draft picks on this team. But the grass isn't always greener. The team could hire a GM who is an utter buffoon (is that really out of the question with this organization?) that gets fired and the rebuild process continues on for another 3+ years after that. There's no guarantee that things will be better with someone else. Making change for the sake of change is not a smart move by any means.
Russ Brandon should have no influence on football decisions. His job should be strictly regarding the business side of the football operations. He should have no business being in HC interviews or having any influence over that. After all, it was he who told the Pegulas not to let Rex leave, and there is belief that Whaley wanted Hue Jackson at the time.
If Whaley picks a HC and it works out, so that change your opinion of him? If we win, make the playoffs, and finally are able to take advantage of the talent we have on the roster, will you still be in favor of a tear down? Because the pieces are in place. Yes, we need to start keeping the guys we draft, but with the salary cap the way it is, I have to imagine that is a priority right now as we cannot afford to make any big signings for a while.
While I was laying in bed last night thinking about the team, I thought of a cool feature that Buffalo Rumblings has during the off-season over at SB Nation. I was a big fan of Buffalo Rumblings until Brian Galliford stepped down and Chris T took over. Anyhow, they have the BROP (Buffalo Rumblings Offseason Plan) competition. I was thinking if I were GM, what would I do to fix this team? There are a couple moves I would make that wouldn't be liked by all.
First off, we would go back to a 4-3 scheme when we hire Jim Schwartz as HC on the condition that Lynn stays as OC. He may not like it, but Schwartz is a defensive minded guy, he's going to delegate the offense to somebody anyway. This offense has done well under Lynn and really no reason to change it unless a good OC becomes available and for some reason wants to come to Buffalo (highly unlikely). This is in reverse to how the scenario should have played out last time (hire Hue Jackson, keep Schwartz as DC).
This means that our DL would consist of Hughes, Dareus, Kyle and Shaq. Ragland would be our MLB and we would need to figure out who is going to be on the outside. Whaley may get criticized a lot, but he has been better at finding defensive players than offensive players (I think that is a given). Hughes, Zach Brown, Kiko, Darby, Alexander, etc were guys who weren't highly regarded and have been excellent finds for Buffalo. Asking him to find two OLBs that fit the scheme shouldn't be out of the question. Gilmore and Darby are staying, which means Gilmore is getting a contract extension. The money for that will come from a move on the offensive side of the ball you'll see shortly. We need to address our Safeties and badly. The defense took a big hit when Aaron went down, and for his health I hope he never plays again. I'd hate to see anything happen to him because of this game and I worry every time I see him make a hit.
Tyrod stays. You can't go opting out of a contract without having someone as good or better on the roster to take his place and we don't have that someone. The backfield stays as is. Robert Woods is going to go. We cannot afford to pay him what he's going to get on the open market. Unless he decides to sign a very reasonable amount, matching an offer that someone like Sanu or Marvin Jones got would be crazy IMO. Especially on a run first offense (and I have a hard time believing that philosophy will change with Lynn, a former RB, being the OC). Clay stays as well. On the OL, we need to address the right side of our OL. Miller and Mills aren't going to cut it any longer. Kouandjio hasn't made a good transition to RT as we all know by now, but when he has stepped in for Glenn, he has done a very good job. He has graded out well at LT in regular season games, and the dropoff isn't that much from Glenn to Kouandjio, which is why Kouandjio is going to be the 2017 LT. Glenn will be traded for a 2017 1st round pick (someone will pay that price for an excellent LT in his prime, and this is where that money from the Gilmore extension comes in).
Now, we would still need to address QB, RG, RT, WR, OLB and S. There are some holes, but with an extra 1st round pick, and holding all of our picks still, we should be in good shape. If Whaley can get a couple of cheap FAs to help on the defensive side, which he has shown he can do, that would reduce the amount of areas we need to address via the draft.
Now, here's a twist I thought about as well. I was reading some reports where some of the analysts were saying they felt Tyrod was better than Cousins. If Washington agreed with that, I would totally be on board with an even swap. They tag Cousins and trade him on the condition he passes a physical and a contract is worked out between the team and Cousins. Then we have a pocket passer who could keep defenses honest and not force the team to be so one dimensional. If that were the case, then keeping Robert Woods would have to be a consideration. The contract for Cousins would likely be very expensive, which would make Woods staying more difficult, but the Cordy Glenn trade make a lot more sense.
I know I'm in fantasy land with all of this. Sorry for cluttering up the thread.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yes, and I still think it was great. What's not great is the way they've handled it now. They should have just played him this week.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
One Bill may set an NFL record this season. Reggie Bush may very well become the first RB to ever have more than 10 carries in a season and end up with negative yards. 
Probably not surprising, but I'm pretty much on the opposite end of the spectrum- it was a dumb extension, and there is nothing but downside to playing him this week, especially if he's already possibly facing surgery. Why on earth would you take that risk, both financially and with his health?
The Bills generally handle most things poorly, including not having Whaley or someone else higher up at the press conference to explain the decision, but sitting him this week makes perfect sense.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
A guy named John Adams had 14 rushes for -2 yards for the 1961 Chicago Bears.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
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