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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (1 Viewer)

flysack said:
They gave up a third rounder to get him? 

Like me the pick, but you guys said.....not sure about the price. 
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Yeah, I don't see a ton of WR need at picks 38-43.

Maybe Jets (nope), maaaaybe Panthers, maybe Eagles, but I think those are fairly long shots.

 
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What's really interesting to me is how obvious it has become this weekend that Doug Whaley is done in Buffalo. McDermott is very clearly calling the shots. He has been front an center as the team rep, the guys drafted are very high character guys, the talk of not picking up Watkins's 5th year option, all add up to Whaley having no say.

 
He's improved but not for my liking whenever I saw a Bills game last year.  He's a pretty good run blocker but struggled against the pass from what I remember.  Dawkins better have a TE helping him block or chip the end on passing downs then if you are going to put him in at the RT spot.

 
humpback said:
Bye bye Whaley
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Seemed pretty clear this was coming. 

I feel like Whaley was a mixed bag, but ultimately the wins on the field just didn't happen and that cost him

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of a rookie HC being given so much authority to the point of bringing in a GM after making it clear that the HC is running the show. I do like McDermott, but the way this has played out is a bit concerning. 

You do have to think that McDermott must be making a huge impression on the Pegulas. There is talk that the Pegulas cleaned house in the Sabre organization after they realized how much better McDermott runs things. And in that case, they fired both the GM and HC at the same time and before the draft. For things to have played out the way they did for the Bills, it would seem that the Pegulas may have been intending on keeping Whaley until McDermott arrived and they quickly realized that McDermott is operating at a totally different level and that Whaley just wasn't cutting it. 

Or maybe the Pegulas sided with McDermott on the Tyrod thing and Whaley asked to leave knowing that his role was continually diminishing.

 
I have to say, I haven't been against any of the moves McDermott has made so far. Resigning Tyrod was a smart move. The draft was executed smartly as well. We'll see if those players turn out well, but he didn't do anything crazy and even positioned us with two 1st rounders for next year. 

 
GroveDiesel said:
Seemed pretty clear this was coming. 

I feel like Whaley was a mixed bag, but ultimately the wins on the field just didn't happen and that cost him

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of a rookie HC being given so much authority to the point of bringing in a GM after making it clear that the HC is running the show. I do like McDermott, but the way this has played out is a bit concerning. 

You do have to think that McDermott must be making a huge impression on the Pegulas. There is talk that the Pegulas cleaned house in the Sabre organization after they realized how much better McDermott runs things. And in that case, they fired both the GM and HC at the same time and before the draft. For things to have played out the way they did for the Bills, it would seem that the Pegulas may have been intending on keeping Whaley until McDermott arrived and they quickly realized that McDermott is operating at a totally different level and that Whaley just wasn't cutting it. 

Or maybe the Pegulas sided with McDermott on the Tyrod thing and Whaley asked to leave knowing that his role was continually diminishing.
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Yeah, we really don't know exactly what is going on behind the scenes. I agree that it's risky giving a rookie HC so much authority, but at least everyone will be on the same page now. It may fail spectacularly, but it won't be because they forced a hodgepodge of personnel who don't see eye to eye to work together.

The next step is to get the Pegula's to back off and let them do their thing for a few years, which I'm not as optimistic about. He seems to be very hands-on, and he doesn't seem to be any good at it.

 
flysack said:
I have to say, I haven't been against any of the moves McDermott has made so far. Resigning Tyrod was a smart move. The draft was executed smartly as well. We'll see if those players turn out well, but he didn't do anything crazy and even positioned us with two 1st rounders for next year. 
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If the rumors that they're likely to decline the 5th year on Watkins are true, that would be a big mistake IMO.

 
Driving around listening to the local Buffalo radio station, WGR-550, and there was some chatter about what might be considered unlawful tampering between the Bills (McDermott) and the soon to be new GM (current Carolina assistant GM) Brandon Beane..... TWO times, in the 2nd round, Buffalo traded up slightly AHEAD of Carolina, to take a player.  Coincidence perhaps BUT both times the Bills took a position player that Carolina also took the same position.

Round 2, pick 37, Bills traded up and took WR Zay Jones from East Carolina.  Carolina had pick 40, and took WR Curtis Samuel, Ohio State.  Later in the round.........................

Round 2, pick 63, Bills traded up and took G/T Dion Dawkins from Temple.  Carolina had pick 64 and took Taylor Moton, Western Michigan.

LOL :shrug:

 
humpback said:
If the rumors that they're likely to decline the 5th year on Watkins are true, that would be a big mistake IMO.
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Maybe, maybe not. The difference between the option and the franchise tag is probably only about $2.5M. 

$12M is a whole lot of guaranteed money to option for a guy who has had constant injury issues and who currently is still recovering from a second surgery for a tricky foot injury. 

If Sammy can actually heal up and prove that he can stay healthy, they can always make the choice to franchise him and/or work out a long-term deal.

What's a worse option: Guaranteeing $12M to a guy that could be totally wasted when he proves to never be able to get healthy, or having to pay an extra $2.5M next year than you would have (or less if they work out a long-term deal) for a guy that has proven he can be healthy for a full season and be a true #1 WR difference maker.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Maybe, maybe not. The difference between the option and the franchise tag is probably only about $2.5M. 

$12M is a whole lot of guaranteed money to option for a guy who has had constant injury issues and who currently is still recovering from a second surgery for a tricky foot injury. 

If Sammy can actually heal up and prove that he can stay healthy, they can always make the choice to franchise him and/or work out a long-term deal.

What's a worse option: Guaranteeing $12M to a guy that could be totally wasted when he proves to never be able to get healthy, or having to pay an extra $2.5M next year than you would have (or less if they work out a long-term deal) for a guy that has proven he can be healthy for a full season and be a true #1 WR difference maker.
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If it's only 2.5 Mil difference then I can see the logic in that. I would also burn the franchise tag, though. Not sure who else they might want/need to use it on next year.

 
I count the franchise tag NOW is about $15 mill, but if there are 2-3 other WRs who are going to be tagged come February or March then that number is going to be a lot higher, perhaps $16-$17 mill.  Either way Bills are currently in a high risk spot on what to do with his status.

 
Trading down to set up next year's draft followed by a bunch of safe picks.  Makes sense if they don't trust their current scouting.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Maybe, maybe not. The difference between the option and the franchise tag is probably only about $2.5M. 

$12M is a whole lot of guaranteed money to option for a guy who has had constant injury issues and who currently is still recovering from a second surgery for a tricky foot injury. 

If Sammy can actually heal up and prove that he can stay healthy, they can always make the choice to franchise him and/or work out a long-term deal.

What's a worse option: Guaranteeing $12M to a guy that could be totally wasted when he proves to never be able to get healthy, or having to pay an extra $2.5M next year than you would have (or less if they work out a long-term deal) for a guy that has proven he can be healthy for a full season and be a true #1 WR difference maker.
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It'll likely be higher than that, plus obviously you only get the 1 so they might lose someone else if they have to use it on him, plus it would make the tag option in 2019 more expensive if they can't work out a long term deal.

It's definitely a risk, but I think it's a bigger risk to not do it, especially considering the circumstances- they gave up a ton for him and their WRs are almost non-existent without him.

 
humpback said:
It'll likely be higher than that, plus obviously you only get the 1 so they might lose someone else if they have to use it on him, plus it would make the tag option in 2019 more expensive if they can't work out a long term deal.

It's definitely a risk, but I think it's a bigger risk to not do it, especially considering the circumstances- they gave up a ton for him and their WRs are almost non-existent without him.
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You have to remember that the team knows way more about his health and long term prospects with his foot than we do. 

You can't look backwards. Giving up a ton for him is a sunk cost. And while their WRs are non-existent without him, paying a WR $12M when he's not on the field is much much worse. Let's face it, the guy has been healthy for less than 50% of games in his career. 

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
Driving around listening to the local Buffalo radio station, WGR-550, and there was some chatter about what might be considered unlawful tampering between the Bills (McDermott) and the soon to be new GM (current Carolina assistant GM) Brandon Beane..... TWO times, in the 2nd round, Buffalo traded up slightly AHEAD of Carolina, to take a player.  Coincidence perhaps BUT both times the Bills took a position player that Carolina also took the same position.

Round 2, pick 37, Bills traded up and took WR Zay Jones from East Carolina.  Carolina had pick 40, and took WR Curtis Samuel, Ohio State.  Later in the round.........................

Round 2, pick 63, Bills traded up and took G/T Dion Dawkins from Temple.  Carolina had pick 64 and took Taylor Moton, Western Michigan.

LOL :shrug:
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A lot of people have compared McDermott to Belichick. If this is true, you can add cheating to the comparison.

 
Though the Zay Jones pick can be attributed to his WR coach now being our WR coach and them reasonably thinking the next team to pick a WR would be Carolina......but that's just me trying to reason things out. I suddenly sound like a Patriots fan. My god. Shoot me now.

 
GroveDiesel said:
You have to remember that the team knows way more about his health and long term prospects with his foot than we do. 

You can't look backwards. Giving up a ton for him is a sunk cost. And while their WRs are non-existent without him, paying a WR $12M when he's not on the field is much much worse. Let's face it, the guy has been healthy for less than 50% of games in his career. 
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Yes, but injuries have plagued this entire team and we finally ditched the strength & conditioning idiots. Also, we don't have anyone else really. Also also, when healthy, Watkins is a ### #### elite player. We need him. The injuries could be part fluke, part the Bills team constantly getting injured. Not picking up his 5th year option is nuts, imo. He's too damn good.

 
GroveDiesel said:
You have to remember that the team knows way more about his health and long term prospects with his foot than we do. 

You can't look backwards. Giving up a ton for him is a sunk cost. And while their WRs are non-existent without him, paying a WR $12M when he's not on the field is much much worse. Let's face it, the guy has been healthy for less than 50% of games in his career. 
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They obviously have examined him more, but there's really no way of knowing how he's going to fair physically without a crystal ball. They know the odds in general, but you can't really predict it in specific individuals.

I know it's a sunk cost, and I said in the beginning that it was a bad move to give up as much as they did to get him, but once you do so you want as much production out of him as you can get. It's a gamble, but unless they think he has little chance of staying healthy, it's one they have to take IMO. The fact that he's so good when healthy and they're so weak without him means they should be willing to take more risk in this case. Obviously if they think there's little chance he's going to hold up you don't, but I imagine they would've declined it already if they felt that way. I hope the delay means that they plan on picking it up and are just waiting until the last minute to make sure he doesn't injure himself rehabbing it.

 
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I can see both sides of the Watkins extension.  I'd lean towards extending him, because you're really only introducing that risk for 1 year - it's not something that's likely to hamstring the organization long term.

I won't cry if they don't extend.  I still remember a year or two ago when he whined about not getting the ball enough despite being injured for a large chunk of the season.  How do you get a player the ball when he's not in the game?

 
Not that it matters but both Tre White and more so Zay Jones' interviews on WGR came off very well.  Was really impressed with Zay Jones. 

 
The Beane hire seems like a solid move by the Pegula's as they wanted someone who can actually work with the head coach and they have their history with the Panthers.  At this point, (as most new hires look), this seems like the start of something good, finally, for the Bills. 

 
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