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I guess we value things differently, because I read those stats as Taylor>Cousins. Is 9 TD's worth more than 12 TO? Is 400 extra rushing yards meaningless?
The thing with this is that you are not looking at the context of the total pass attempts. Obviously the more a team the throws the ball, the higher the total number of pass attempts is, the higher the total TD and INT will be as well as yards. You account for this in YPA but not the TD and INT.travdogg said:
To be fair, the Vikings have the type of team that Taylor could win with (great defense, running game and skill players) but he can NOT carry a team. The reason he does not turn the ball over is because he's afraid to take chances. Even his YPA are misleading because if a guy isn't wide open he does not throw the ball to them, he'll check down or run.travdogg said:
I don't think they are an important statistic. YPA takes yardage into the equation, without giving extra credit for attempts. Passing yards are less about the player and more about the playcalling in my opinion, and no Mike Zimmer team will throw as often as a Jay Gruden team, and that's been proven over multiple OC's.
Well the disparity in rushing yards seem important to you so I would imagine the extra 1,000-2,000 passing yards per season more from Cousins would also be of interest.
Those rush yards come mostly at the expense of passing yards though. They aren't some bonus that Tyrod magically creates. And given that his YPC are lower than his YPA he's probably costing the team overall with them. Do you see Zimmer calling a lot of designated QB runs with Taylor?
Indeed. Seems like the writing is very much on the wall. I listened to Johnny Athletic on KFAN yesterday and was surprised he opined that Cousins is his 12th-13th rated QB. I don't get that at all. Rating actual production, he's much higher than that. The only way you rate him 12th-13th is if you are looking at things that have little to do with him, such as the general sorry state of the Redskins. Moreover, context matters. The only way JA's ranking makes sense is if you ignore age and future utility. Does that make sense when evaluating this potential signing? An NFL team who is contemplating a 4-5 year $100-$130MM deal QB solution is not going to going to rank Brady/Brees/Roethlisberger/Manning/Rivers higher (even if arguably better for 2018). Under the context actually on the table, I'd put Rodgers and Russell Wilson obviously higher, then who? I like Cousins over Stafford/Ryan. Personally, I would not pay Cam Newton in this range to be a team leader.
Just hope the Vikings don’t miss out on cousins, because not much out their after case and Kurt.I love how the local media is going bananas that the Vikings won't Franchise Case.. Listen.. he did VERY good last year, but NOT $24 Million a year good.
Let him test FA, and if someone is willing to give him over $20 Million per year
I thought that Cousins would fall off in 2017 due to the fact that his two main targets, Garcon and Jackson, were both gone from the team. The fact that Cousins still had 27td/13int with 65% completion percentage and a 93.7% QB ratings with no real proven wide receivers indicates to me that he has a pretty good QB. I think he will be surrounded by a lot better talent in Minnesota in 2018 and will take a step up in his performance.
I agree. Shades of Derrick Anderson circa 2007. I don't expect Case to be able to repeat the success he had in 2017 season.I love how the local media is going bananas that the Vikings won't Franchise Case.. Listen.. he did VERY good last year, but NOT $24 Million a year good.
Let him test FA, and if someone is willing to give him over $20 Million per year
I don't think they necessarily do. Sometimes these would be less effective RB runs, and sometimes they would be a throw away, or even an INT.Hankmoody said:
I think 12th-13th is kinda high myself. I'd say 15-20 sounds about right to me. I think you are crazy valuing Cousins over Stafford or especially Ryan. Ryan is a ton better than Cousins. He's 1 year removed from being NFL MVP, and has been a good to elite QB for about 10 years. Heck, I'd put Ryan ahead of Rivers and probably equal to Roethlisberger.BigJim® said:
Keenum was a lot better than 2007 Anderson. That was a mediocre QB, getting bailed out by monster years by Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow. That was an obvious fluke year at the time.Donnybrook said:
I agree there has to be a limit to what they will be willing to spend. I am not sure what that limit is though and I am also not sure what it should be?
This isn't exactly in order of how good they are but its numbered to keep track of how many I view as better.
Never said they were. I said an excellent supporting cast. D-Jax and Garcon were sometimes the 3rd and 4th option that year, behind Reed and sometimes Crowder. That is outstanding depth of weapons. I don't think there was a team in the NFL that was better 4 targets deep. Both D-Jax and Garcon would have been #1 WR's on a couple teams.
Come on. You are performing some real mental gymnastics to downplay Cousins. I don't think he's a great QB - but he's much better than you are trying to make him seem.
Having already signed Rhodes/Harrison Smith long term puts the Vikes in decent position. The only 2019 needs are LBs Kendricks/Barr. On offense they will need to worry about Diggs as well. With $50MM in cap space available before signing Cousins, and potentially another $8MM freed when dust settles on the DL Floyd situation and expanded cap in 2019, I don't see a problem keeping whoever the Vikes choose to keep.
After Gruden left Cincinnati, Dalton had a bad year in 2014, but then had his two best seasons in 2015 and 2016 and his interception numbers came way down. I think Gruden does like to be pass happy which does inflate a QB's numbers, but that imbalance ultimately hurts how productive overall the offense is. So I think it is possible that Cousins will have worse statistics with another team but be a more productive QB.
My guess is that he has them in dynasty and has a very rosy view of his future. I used to defend Brock Osweiler far beyond any reasonable level because I had invested a late round pick in him and sat on him for years.
Tempted to hop on this train. I would like to see them draft a QB even if they sign Cousins.I'm driving the Lamar Jackson to the Vikings train. Who wants on?
I too am tempted, but right or wrong I'm just wary of the mobile QB who may dazzle for a season or two (RGIII, Vick) and ultimately fail when needing to become an NFL pocket passer (which will come, eventually). Once the legs are gone, the QB can't be gone. Cam Newton is built quite a bit differently and seems to be able to be a pocket passer, and Russell Wilson has uncanny 6th sense that reduces injury risk, but as a general rule I'm just not comfortable going with a guy who doesn't bring honest to god pocket presence with him. From what I've seen of Jackson, I'm not sure he can succeed from the pocket.
No fantasy investment at all. I like that he is an elite rusher, elite at avoiding turnovers and has the occasional splash play thanks to a big arm and pretty good deep ball. He wouldn't fit if he was being asked to play a Brees/Brady type role, but if a coach plays to his strengths, he brings a lot of them to the table. He's a perfect fit for a run/defense team.
Yes I'm talking about a shoe-in QB2 with QB1 upside. Assuming they land Cousins I would bet his contract is front loaded. They obviously see something in Sloter but with another high upside rookie QB they can hedge against a major let down in Cousins. If Cousins lives up to the hype they get the #2 as much time as possible and showcase him for a trade in the future. A vet backup would be OK but Cousins is pretty durable and I would much rather see a ton of upside behind him rather than another stopgap just in case guy.
Thoughts on Norwell and Wilkerson. I would love to see them both in purple. Would it be possible to fill needs in FA while also signing Cousins? Idk, thats a big concern.
Thats kind of what I see happening also.Andy Dufresne said:
I can't handle travdoggs list of QB who he thinks are better than Cousins.bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Tell me more.Andy Dufresne said:I'm driving the Lamar Jackson to the Vikings train. Who wants on?
Trav clearly does not like Cousins, I think you need to chalk it up to that. There's guys on his list I actually do like, such as Carr/Wentz. I'd probably pay top dollar for those guys too, but they aren't available. I put Cousins in the conversation with those QBs. I heard today that Cousins was sacked 41 times last season. Being battered like that and throwing for 4100 yards is nearly as impressive as throwing for 4900 the season prior.
I didn't think I disliked Cousins that much. I think he's a good QB, just not a great one. A-F scale, he's a solid B. I would not argue against Cousins being the best available FA QB, he is, I just don't think he's worth the likely contract he gets. I highly doubt he's bringing any of his Redskins stats with him, because this would be an entirely different offense, that isn't playing from behind a lot.
LT: Williams>>>Reiff
