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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (8 Viewers)
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I have heard it may be fully guaranteed. I wonder how much is front loaded for the 2018 season, as far as how much may be left for free agency.
If it is the same cap hit all 3 years of $28 million then the Vikings officially have $15 left in cap space, but this is with Shariff Floyd still on the books for $8.5 million that will go away once they reach an injury settlement. So it is more like $23 million they have left after signing Cousins.
If the Vikings end up cutting Latavius Murray that frees up another $6 million so then they would have $29 million to work with, as far as signing other free agents and for re-signing their own players. Jarius Wright being released could free up almost another $5 million as well which would give them $34 million left to work with.
Welcome Kirk Cousins. I think he will be good enough and provide some stability to the QB position for the first time since Culpepper..
I've been over it in this thread, but I don't think Cousins is a franchise QB. He's good, but nowhere near elite. Its possible that he isn't an upgrade at all from the Teddy/Bradford/Keenum trio, though I will readily admit, he's much safer. Its just is that safety worth at least an extra 10 million a year?
Not right now it doesn't. But when it comes time to re-up guys like Diggs and Hunter it might. I just hate the fully guaranteed part. That is a ton of money for somebody I don't view as elite, that's all.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
I totally disagree with the bold above. Besides, that "combo" or Teddy/Bradford/Keenum would cost more than $28 million a year.
I wasn't suggesting they keep all 3, I was saying that all 3 had success for the Vikings, and while I'm sure Cousins will too, I'm not sure he's a big upgrade over any of them, just more reliable.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Why debate with Travdog? He said from the start he is not a fan of Cousins so you need to read everything in that light. Different strokes... different folks.
I would not call $28 mil per year and fully guaranteed $ a steal by any means, but it's a best case scenario for sure. Vikes were going to have to come hard at this point with only Bradford/Bridgewater as backup plans. It's either best workable offer, or selling to a fanbase that trading more picks to the Eagles or Bridgewater was your plan all along.
I would not call $28 mil per year and fully guaranteed $ a steal by any means, but it's a best case scenario for sure. Vikes were going to have to come hard at this point with only Bradford/Bridgewater as backup plans. It's either best workable offer, or selling to a fanbase that trading more picks to the Eagles or Bridgewater was your plan all along.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
People hear "fully guaranteed" and go into a panic. It's only a 3 year contract - would anyone expect that any major free agent contract isn't going to have at least 2 years guaranteed. So what makes adding a third year so scary?
It's highly doubtful that Cousins will flame out, and that the third season will be seen as an albatross. It's actually more likely that he will play well and 4-5 QB contracts will surpass that amount by the start of his third season making it look quite reasonable.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Mike Zimmer already said his job likely hinges on this decision.
I think he made the right choice and having DeFlippo on board helps as well.
Kirk Cousins doesn't really need to be that much better than Keenum last year or Bradford the year before for the Vikings to win a lot of games. Keenum played great last year but Zimmer did not think he could keep that going. He thought Keenum was lucky on several of his plays and I would agree he was. Zimmer said Bradfords knee has a degenerative condition, meaning it will always be a risk of reinjury and its condition is getting worse over time.
Those were the other choices. The Vikings are lucky that Cousins chose them and that they were in a salary cap situation to be able to sign him. If Washington did business like most teams do, Cousins would not have even been an option and the Vikings would be trying to move forward with Teddy or Keenum or Bradford.
I am hoping the Vikings can find a way to get Teddy back too, but I guess we will see about that. Don't blame him for wanting to start and another team will likely offer him more than the Vikings will as a back up.
I think he made the right choice and having DeFlippo on board helps as well.
Kirk Cousins doesn't really need to be that much better than Keenum last year or Bradford the year before for the Vikings to win a lot of games. Keenum played great last year but Zimmer did not think he could keep that going. He thought Keenum was lucky on several of his plays and I would agree he was. Zimmer said Bradfords knee has a degenerative condition, meaning it will always be a risk of reinjury and its condition is getting worse over time.
Those were the other choices. The Vikings are lucky that Cousins chose them and that they were in a salary cap situation to be able to sign him. If Washington did business like most teams do, Cousins would not have even been an option and the Vikings would be trying to move forward with Teddy or Keenum or Bradford.
I am hoping the Vikings can find a way to get Teddy back too, but I guess we will see about that. Don't blame him for wanting to start and another team will likely offer him more than the Vikings will as a back up.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
babydemon90
Footballguy
Yea, the "fully guaranteed" part matters less because its only 3 years. The normal 6 year, 160 mil deal would have had almost as much guarantee as this one - this just gives an out to the team after 3 years without dead cap., Also means if he does well, they're going to have to pay him way more - in 3 years, Goff, Rodgers, Wentz will all have gotten big money deals. Cousins will be able to cash in AGAIN, with the new benchmark being set. Normally your out with these deals is that by year 3-4, the per year cost is below market value, and you're getting relative value for a few years. You're losing that here.
encaitar
Footballguy
Last year Keenum/Bridgewater/Bradford cost $26 million against the cap. Even if you think it's a ### for tat swap(newsflash... it's not) then they are only spending $2M more this year on the QB position.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Well, for starters, and to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time that a player's contract is FULLY guaranteed in it's entirety. Insofar as this is the first time an event like this has happened, I found it shocking, in and of itself.
Secondly, Jimmy G got a huge chunk of a much longer contract guaranteed. There appears to be a lot more questions about Cousins than Jimmy G so I found this deal shocking.
Lastly, I'm old school and remember well the days of guys like Scott Mitchell cashing in, only to turn out, well, not worth the contract. I like Cousins but for a team to fully guarantee his entire contract is just a big deal to me. Hope that clarifies it for you.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Why are the more questions about Cousins than Jimmy G? That makes no sense. One has a much larger body of work. And it ain't Jimmy G.
encaitar
Footballguy
Yeah, but it's a fully guaranteed 3 year contract. It's not a fully guaranteed 5 year contract.
If Cousins came to Minnesota and flopped, he'd still get a 2nd year to turn it around. If he didn't, then Minnesota would still have to take a huge cap hit to cut him after year 2 if they gave him a 5 or 6 year contract. This is still essentially the same thing, just a shorter contract. The only difference between this and say Jimmy G's contract is the Vikings won't have the last couple years with Cousins on a relatively modest deal market wise. That only matters if he shows up as a top QB, which if he does they'll have no issue giving him another big contract 3 years from now.
If Cousins came to Minnesota and flopped, he'd still get a 2nd year to turn it around. If he didn't, then Minnesota would still have to take a huge cap hit to cut him after year 2 if they gave him a 5 or 6 year contract. This is still essentially the same thing, just a shorter contract. The only difference between this and say Jimmy G's contract is the Vikings won't have the last couple years with Cousins on a relatively modest deal market wise. That only matters if he shows up as a top QB, which if he does they'll have no issue giving him another big contract 3 years from now.
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They can also restructure going into year 3 if things are going well and have more flexibility add years while also knowing what the salary cap situation will be like at that time. I don't think this is a bad situation in any way based on current contract levels being signed around the league.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Fair point. But sometimes, the intangibles say a lot. For me, it's clear Bellicheck loved Jimmy G. He sat and watched and learned from Brady and arguably the best coaching staff the league has ever seen. I don't know what the heck happened in and around the time he was traded, but something was going on internally with the Pats that lead to his being traded. I believe he was absolutely the future of the team, but somehow, someway it got bungled and off he went to SF. Lynch is no dummy and the niners obviously saw a lot in Jimmy G to give him a deal like they did.
Now, I like Cousins, and he has looked really good at times. But he has also struggled and had some issues in his time in Washington.
Reasonable minds can obviously differ, and that's what makes all this stuff so much fun. I look at Jimmy G and I just he has "it". I'm not saying Cousins can't be a great QB, but I don't see that "it" with him. Just my 2 cents.
Hang 10
Footballguy
If we've learned anything about Cousins is that if he plays well he's going to leverage it to the maximum. He only wanted a 3 year deal so he could guarantee himself another shot at mega deal.
snogger
Footballguy
For 1 QB.. Currently, have a VERY unknown as backup right now, so will have to spend more to get a backup.
Pipes
Footballguy
Agreed. It's hard to say anyone signing a contract like that is a steal but I like the deal for the Vikings. They can afford it and he makes them better as well as adding stability to the QB position. Nice move by them.
snogger
Footballguy
Kirk to Vikes, Case to Denver, Bradford to Cards, Bridgewater to Jets..
So, the question becomes.. Vikings Backup.. Doubt AJ comes over..
McCown, 39 and for me at least :X
Fitzpatrick?
Or do they take a huge chance and go with who they have and draft someone in the later rounds??
So, the question becomes.. Vikings Backup.. Doubt AJ comes over..
McCown, 39 and for me at least :X
Fitzpatrick?
Or do they take a huge chance and go with who they have and draft someone in the later rounds??
BigJim®
Footballguy
If you were to phrase it might have been I'm right there with you. If Bridgewater's near amputated leg that cost him 2 years and Bradford's recurring knee that cost him all but 1 game in 2017 allow them to be what they could be. But "would have been"? Those are insurmountable if's for me personally to assume that, and too much risk when the stakes are what they are.
I would guess that a big portion of the appeal of Cousins over Bridgwater & Bradford is his health history. That is a huge factor in spending that kind of money and B&B don't lead to confidence when it comes to staying on the field. Cousins has been extremely durable and is mobile enough to escape pressure when need be.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
sports_fan
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
He could have had a "mega deal" with the Jets if that's what he really wanted. If we've learned anything about Cousins is that he wants to win and sacrificed some $ to do so. If he wins and he's earned another "mega deal" in 3 years good for him. I hope the Vikings can afford him. (or Sloter is ready to go...)
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Best wishes to Teddy with the Jets.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Here are a couple of lists of he top free agents. Some of the signings are tracked in these as well.
Top 100 NFL free agents of 2018
2018 NFL Free Agents: Top 100
I don't really see any defensive tackles that I feel great about at under tackle.
Dontari Poe? Suh? (seems unlikely) David Irving?
Here is just the defensive tackle list Tom Johnson is 20th on this list and a lot of these players ahead of him are more run defenders or nose tackles. The impact defensive tackles in the draft likely won't last to the Vikings 1st round pick but maybe I am wrong about that.
Things may be more promising at offensive line than defensive tackle in free agency. The draft has a lot of good guards but not any great tackles, so addressing tackle in free agency might be a better option?
.2018 NFL Free Agents: Offensive Tackles
This list doesn't look all that good to me when Andre Smith is the 7th guy on the list.
Who stands out as a player who could really help the Vikings?
Top 100 NFL free agents of 2018
2018 NFL Free Agents: Top 100
I don't really see any defensive tackles that I feel great about at under tackle.
Dontari Poe? Suh? (seems unlikely) David Irving?
Here is just the defensive tackle list Tom Johnson is 20th on this list and a lot of these players ahead of him are more run defenders or nose tackles. The impact defensive tackles in the draft likely won't last to the Vikings 1st round pick but maybe I am wrong about that.
Things may be more promising at offensive line than defensive tackle in free agency. The draft has a lot of good guards but not any great tackles, so addressing tackle in free agency might be a better option?
.2018 NFL Free Agents: Offensive Tackles
This list doesn't look all that good to me when Andre Smith is the 7th guy on the list.
Who stands out as a player who could really help the Vikings?
Tanner9919
Footballguy
great signing, Cousins was good last year, especially when you consider he had no targets to throw to, Reed always hurt, line problems, Jamison Crowder was his best weapon? wow.
now he goes to a legit offense, power run game, great defense that will always keep the vikings competitive to the very end.
great signing. Teddy who?!
now he goes to a legit offense, power run game, great defense that will always keep the vikings competitive to the very end.
great signing. Teddy who?!
I think dontari poe would be a solid signing at tackle. Daquon Jones maybe? Also would be interested in an edge rusher to rotate in with griffen and hunter. I kind of like adryian clatborn and alex okafor. Zim could always snag someone like that in the draft too and that’s probably a more cost effective approach.
Oline for sure. Pugh and Solder probably will cost too much. Maybe at guard someone kinda young but with upside like a cameron fleming (i think he can play guard too?) josh kline? Not exciting but there isn’t much out there that screams “sign me vikes”.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Hopefully this signing greases the skids for other signings. I agree though, I don't see a lot of available FAs that I'd overpay. It's one reason I didn't care what Cousins cost. Would I pay that same amount for Bradford/Pugh? No.
On backup QB, I'm not worried at all after entering into seasons with the backups we've had (Keenum aside). With this draft class their could be some seasoned vets still to be cut. Maybe even use a 5th on a prospect they like and have him compete with Sloter. How they proceed should give an idea what the team thinks about Sloter. I'm already sort of anxious for next preseason, when Sloter should get a ton of play time to assess.
On backup QB, I'm not worried at all after entering into seasons with the backups we've had (Keenum aside). With this draft class their could be some seasoned vets still to be cut. Maybe even use a 5th on a prospect they like and have him compete with Sloter. How they proceed should give an idea what the team thinks about Sloter. I'm already sort of anxious for next preseason, when Sloter should get a ton of play time to assess.
BigJim®
Footballguy
