Biabreakable
Footballguy
Surely Sam Darnold is not the answer to anything.
I will just pretend that didn't happen. The other moves seem promising.
I will just pretend that didn't happen. The other moves seem promising.
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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Honestly I baffled at what they are doing with a plan at QB. They surely cannot just sit at that current draft position and hope someone falls to them or actually walk into the season with Darnold at the helm. If they believe in Caleb why not trade 3 1sts? Caleb to JJ would sell a lot of tickets.
Based on the Bears last season, I think they might be prefer two 1sts and a player, so maybe Darrisaw, the 11, and a 2025 1st for Caleb?
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
If I were the Vikings I would jump on that. Of course all depends on their evaluations of this QB class.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I think NY is a pressure cooker for QBs as evident from four 1st round failures. Every mistake is amplified 2 to 3 times and rookies are expected to be perfect out of the gate. I am not sure he will even get a start with the Vikings but even he learns the system and taught where to go with the ball, he will look better than expected. The position is all about playing with confidence. The fact that Kyle Shanahan thought even of him to make him the back up for the 49ers and trade away Lance says something to me. Vikings have the best receiving core he has ever played with (since he never saw the field in San Fran). I do think Darnold could have a Geno-like resurgence in Minnesota.
To me it says that Lance was absolutely terrible and Shanny had no other options at all. Last year was not good for QB acquisitions and Shanny tried to make it sound like it was his plan.
As a NE fan who isn't sold on D. Maye, I'd gladly take those two first rounders, your first rounder next year, and another mid round pick.Well today's trade to get a 2nd first round pick HAS to be ammo to move up.. Or at least it better be, or there might be a fan revolt.
skol asylum
Footballguy
How about Trading with Cardinals at 4 and target McCarthy?
Should be able to get 4 and 90 for 11 and 23.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Makes sense to me.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
I’d rather have MHJ at 4 than McCarthy.
Nobody can convince me that McCarthy is any good. He barely threw the ball last year.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I like it. There’s really no point in false bravado or playing chicken. Zero chance QB4 falls to 11, and trying to guess where exactly is penny wise/pound foolish.
While the prognosticating world has a clear top 3, teams could be all over the map on QB2-4. I can’t shake a suspicion that New England is unpredictable. Drafting a national champ QB out of Michigan worked out ok for them last time they did it. Call it a hunch they shock the world and let Daniels fall (still hoping into Vikes’ lap).
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I am trying to figure out the motivation for the Cardinals to trade down.
Tell me if this makes any sense. Apparently they are in the market for Tee Higgins and may have to outbid Carolina and NE for his rights. The Cardinals have the 27th pick in the draft and could trade it to the Bengals for Higgins. So with WR addressed they add a top 3 edge rusher t at 11 and CB at 23.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
They are not trading away these 2 foundations of their offense.
I agree, which is why they have no chance of getting to #1. I don't think #11, #23, and 2025 1st would get there.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
It just seems odd the trade they made with the Texans unless they had something in place. And if it is not for the number #1 pick then how do they know what they are getting with any other pick (you could argue they would know with the number two)? Just seems strange to me.
karl.Racki
Footballguy
Talk, Bears keep Fields and trade the 1st overall to Minnesota for Justin Jefferson and Minny drafts Caleb.
Seems crazy to think 90 would be coming back. I would think 11 and 23 + would get you to 4 but I understand the chart
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
If they they like all three that would work.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Should actually be more than 90 technically but yeah that's what it indicates.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Possibly, but I feel like trades made during the draft yield better value for the team moving up than those trading down. So, for the Vikings sake, I hope they don't make any trades until they see how the draft begins to unfold. (even though it won't be as fun leading up to the draft)Well, tonight's trade of Fields to Pittsburgh guarantees Da Bears are staying at 1 and taking Williams.
That may shake up more trades in the first round before the draft.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein
Lance Zierlein
https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein
@LanceZierlein
Had a discussion with a position coach for a team who doesn't need QB who couldn't stop gushing about JJ McCarthy and his timing, vision and intangibles. I'm telling you.... has a real shot of being QB3
Well there is that..
Lance Zierlein
https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein
@LanceZierlein
Had a discussion with a position coach for a team who doesn't need QB who couldn't stop gushing about JJ McCarthy and his timing, vision and intangibles. I'm telling you.... has a real shot of being QB3
Well there is that..
BigJim®
Footballguy
Disappointing to see Fields go to Steelers, but that May 2 decision on 5th year option made him basically a rental. It's reconfirming the Vikes are thinking bold on QBOTF, which is the right call IMHO.
I'm thanking the stars they are desperate in this rookie class. While I'd be disappointed if they end up settling for Pennix, he's twice the prospect of anyone in the 2022 class (Pickett, Ridder, Coral, Willis, Coral, Zappe), You look past the top QB in 2021, 2019, 2016 and you see where franchises go to die.
I'm thanking the stars they are desperate in this rookie class. While I'd be disappointed if they end up settling for Pennix, he's twice the prospect of anyone in the 2022 class (Pickett, Ridder, Coral, Willis, Coral, Zappe), You look past the top QB in 2021, 2019, 2016 and you see where franchises go to die.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Thought of the day. The ballsy move in this draft isn't trading up to one of the consensus top 4 QB. The ballsy move is trusting your scouting and waiting for getting value for the pick. Just feel like so much hype at the top of the draft, the supposed 3rd tier QBs are not even getting any media hype.
Denver and the Giants look like places were rookie QBs could usurp the starters.
Denver and the Giants look like places were rookie QBs could usurp the starters.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Trusting your scouting? This staff????? They've drafted like one starter so far.
FairWarning
Footballguy
As a Bears fan, I don’t get the Minn love for McCarthy. Hes just a guy IMO.
BigJim®
Footballguy
This x 1000. Our trusted scouting blew a 5th on Jaren Hall in 2023, and wasted a 3rd on Kellen Mond in 2021. Zero confidence winging it for any lower prospect they like.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Never implied that the Vikings are going to do this. There are drafting based on PFF type analytic and I don't know if they are capable of seeing beyond the numbers. I do feel like Sean Payton could find his Tony Romo in this year draft.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Kelen Mond was Rick Speilman's to be fair. KOC should have been like Flores when he saw Cameron Dantzler. It took him about 2 seconds to realize he couldn't play in this league.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Unless there has been change to scouting, the same info is going to the GM. Kwesi already tried panning for gold with Hall (assume scouting and KOC advised) so it would be surprising if he puts his career on it now.
I hope Payton’s ego seeking the next Romo does take Denver out of competition for trade up. It’s not a strength for him either though since his picks in New Orleans were Sean Cranfield, Garrett Grayson, Tommy Stevens and Ian Book.
Feels to me like there are 2 options:
Option 1 is stay put and take Nix/Penix at #23 and BPA at #11. They may like one of those guys, but don't think #11 is good value as they'll fall further but wouldn't have made it to #42.
Option 2, and the one I think is most likely, is trade the #11 and #23 to Arizona for #4 and take the last guy left. I don't see any scenario at this point where Chicago or Washington trade down, after dealing their starters from last season. NE is a bit of a wildcard, because we have nothing to go on after 24 years of Belichick. My gut says they'd need more than those 2 picks to move down though, especially if their guy doesn't go #2.
Option 1 is stay put and take Nix/Penix at #23 and BPA at #11. They may like one of those guys, but don't think #11 is good value as they'll fall further but wouldn't have made it to #42.
Option 2, and the one I think is most likely, is trade the #11 and #23 to Arizona for #4 and take the last guy left. I don't see any scenario at this point where Chicago or Washington trade down, after dealing their starters from last season. NE is a bit of a wildcard, because we have nothing to go on after 24 years of Belichick. My gut says they'd need more than those 2 picks to move down though, especially if their guy doesn't go #2.
markrc99
Footballguy
Yeah, that all three moved on from their former starter. Because they're committed to the pick or if they wanted any compensation they had to do it now? If AZ is good with the two-pick offer from MIN, any theory as to why that hasn't already happened?
Was looking over Ben Bryant earlier, he's interesting. Very polished for a guy who bounced around a number of programs. Good arm & already adept at how to move defenders around. Like the rookie guide on this site notes, he won't consistently extend plays. Appears to have the requisite hand size/grip strength. Extends the arm & sticks the ball out there, can wave it around. Of mention on his profile is his more of a elongated throwing motion. Very small sample size, so, but the 50+ throws I did watch, timing didn't appear affected. Important I think, Bryant's arms are about 2in longer than Joe Burrow, but shorter than that of Justin Herbert. The mental aspect of his game is what might lend itself.
Because the Vikes have one guy valued quite a bit ahead and want to make sure that guy is there before pulling the trigger
Also, possible the Cards are waiting to see if Denver or Vegas or maybe even NYG offer better deals.
BigJim®
Footballguy
This could be, but I sort of doubt it. Getting the #23 is more indicative of getting a big bargain chip for any of these picks. All likelihood, they are not going to make a move on 4 until they have exhausted talks for 2-3. If they can't entice Wash/NE to accept a trade which would enable the Vikes being more selective, I think they will ultimately take whichever becomes the 4th. I just really doubt they would avoid 4 if a single guy doesn't fall. All 4 top QBs are worlds better than whatever a backup plan would be.
I was just providing a reason why the trade wouldn't go down now if both teams have an agreed price in place. There are many reasons to wait and some to not wait. For example, if they really don't care between the 4 QB's and they have a deal agreed to in principle then they should make the deal right now because they don't want someone else to swoop in with a better offer (this is going on the premise that the two teams have an agreement in place and are waiting).
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Just to play devils advocate for a second.
Disgruntled Bears fan says this: Drafting Caleb Williams buys Poles 2 more years as a GM (barring a complete disaster). It is a pessimistic take for sure but it does ring true for me.
Does drafting a top 4 QB buy Kwesi the same window? Is he backing himself into a corner when he raised expectations for a QB with the trade for the 23rd pick?
Disgruntled Bears fan says this: Drafting Caleb Williams buys Poles 2 more years as a GM (barring a complete disaster). It is a pessimistic take for sure but it does ring true for me.
Does drafting a top 4 QB buy Kwesi the same window? Is he backing himself into a corner when he raised expectations for a QB with the trade for the 23rd pick?
BigJim®
Footballguy
I would say it's probably typical for a GM to get time for his vision with a QBOTF to be graded. There could be instances where 1st season is so unbelievably bad that it is enough to conclude he failed, but would think that is not the norm.
markrc99
Footballguy
Would be great to know & Kwesi better have some assurance from somebody!! I can't imagine that not being the case. Reasonable to assume it's Arizona, but who knows for sure? Likely already mentioned somewhere, it's a move into the top 5 & the Vikings plan to attend JJ McCarthy's pro day & hold a private workout with him. Oh okay, that's what's going on or it's perhaps as Jim suggests, AZ is the fall back plan? I don't know, seems to me the sequence should've gone the other way. They work something, who knows what & now they're going to check out the player? What if after their time with McCarthy they've determined he's so raw, that his timeframe isn't what they had hoped? Now what?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Why can't Sam Darnold succeed in Minnesota?
Sure, the Vikes are candidates to draft a QB but it's doubtful they get one of the Top 3-4 so likely it's clipboard for most of the Rookie Year
At worst, Darnold is likely to 8-9 starts with some serious weapons around him and a QB friendly system.
Darnold was doing pretty well towards the end of his time in Carolina
Geno Smith got away from the Jets, he turned out to be decent
Flacco gets away from the Jets and found the fountain of youth briefly in Cleveland.
Why can't Darnold be the next in line?
-Mathew Berry is asking the same question so I thought I would post similar and see what the Vikings fan think.
Sure, the Vikes are candidates to draft a QB but it's doubtful they get one of the Top 3-4 so likely it's clipboard for most of the Rookie Year
At worst, Darnold is likely to 8-9 starts with some serious weapons around him and a QB friendly system.
Darnold was doing pretty well towards the end of his time in Carolina
Geno Smith got away from the Jets, he turned out to be decent
Flacco gets away from the Jets and found the fountain of youth briefly in Cleveland.
Why can't Darnold be the next in line?
-Mathew Berry is asking the same question so I thought I would post similar and see what the Vikings fan think.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Because Sam Darnold sux.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm still in show me mode on Kwesi, but can't express how relieved I am that Spielman is not in charge of another Vikes QBOTF decision.
After leading total fails searching for QBOTF in Chicago, Miami & Minnesota since 1997, he should be forced to relinquish his QB critique rights.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Trade for Dak
BigJim®
Footballguy
Pass.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Beats the hell out of Darnold.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Of course.
But the Vikings want a young QB who can hopefully be their QB for a long time.
This is basically what KOC and the GM were hired to do. They just tried to do it with Cousins for a couple seasons before.
They would have kept Cousins over trading for Dak or another veteran QB if that is what they wanted to do.
Still remains to be seen if the Vikings can draft the QB they want or not.
