crushedspirit
Footballguy
Ben, it's time son, go join your brother in arms. Thank you for all that you've both done.
Is that the right move for the Steelers, though? They have so many glaring holes, especially at O Line and running back, is signing JJ a luxury they can afford? I am sure he would take a little discount to play with his brothers, but if it’s a championship he is after, Pittsburgh is not the place.
Yeah, if he signs with us, it'll have to be at a discount, otherwise the team just can't afford it. So he either signs to join his Brothers (Bash Bros?), or he signs elsewhere to chase a ring. I think it's more likely he goes to GB, KC, or TB.Is that the right move for the Steelers, though? They have so many glaring holes, especially at O Line and running back, is signing JJ a luxury they can afford? I am sure he would take a little discount to play with his brothers, but if it’s a championship he is after, Pittsburgh is not the place.
If JJ will play for the vet minimum, sure.Is that the right move for the Steelers, though? They have so many glaring holes, especially at O Line and running back, is signing JJ a luxury they can afford? I am sure he would take a little discount to play with his brothers, but if it’s a championship he is after, Pittsburgh is not the place.
It would have to be close no doubt. Just not a signing the Steelers can afford right now with all the holes on their roster.If JJ will play for the vet minimum, sure.
I think he would consider this if the Steelers were a top contender. But they are not so he will probably go to Green Bay or something similar.If JJ will play for the vet minimum, sure.
That is why i didn’t say the cap/salary was an issue but JJ‘s wish to compete for the title.You guys are chicken littles every offseason. Been hearing it for almost 20 years now: “The cap. SQUAK. THE CAP!”
Seriously? When has that ever stopped the Steelers, or any other team for that matter, from doing whatever they want? If JJ wants to be a Steeler and the Steelers want him it will happen and we’ll have a better team for it.
If Ben lowers his salary, they can keep everyone, get JJ, and add through the draft. Remember, this team was 11-0. With that D, they will compete for a title.That is why i didn’t say the cap/salary was an issue but JJ‘s wish to compete for the title.
If Ben lowers his salary they still won’t compete for the title. Even without the free agents they have there are a ton of holes on the roster including what could be one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. Their window is over.If Ben lowers his salary, they can keep everyone, get JJ, and add through the draft. Remember, this team was 11-0. With that D, they will compete for a title.
I've learned that you never try to understand the cap. Ben can stretch that 19 million over several years and others can. If they are going to try one more shot with Ben, you'll be surprised what sort of team they have next year. Losing Bush and then Dupree turned that D from "great" to "very good". Do they need JJ? No, but he may come at a discount. They were firing on all cylinders for 10 games. For one reason or another, they quit throwing the ball downfield half way through the season. That is what clogged everything up. They were running the ball effectively for 6 or 7 games this season. And if the Broncos can win with a broken down Manning (who looked much worse than Ben does), then so can the Steelers.Not sure where some get their cap numbers from, but even if you use Spotrac's estimate of a 189+ mil cap, Steelers are still 15.5 over, and that's updated with Vance and Pouncey out. Ben is owed over 22 mil no matter what, as that was a prorated bonus from previous contracts, and cannot be pushed. So, you're playing with his 19 mil left on his salary. Absolutely any amount you push to 2022 and beyond, will restrict them from signing others in the future, and that would be a bad business move, especially when Minkah and TJ will be due big paydays next year if you want to keep them.
So where do you see Dupree and/or JuJu coming back? Villanueva is gone as well, so where's money for JJ? They need to scrape so they can find room to bring back at least Feiler, Hilton, Alualu, Banner, and Sutton. Then whoever else walks from the extensive UFA list, they will need to find money to give to any replacements they find. Cut Ben, and start the basics of rebuilding an absent running game with MR or DH running the show. Draft your new top linemen and RB, then work on finding a future QB this year or next, while trying to keep your core D intact with the money you saved for the future.
Dupree and JuJu's market prices are well over 15 mil due to others with similar production. They're both gone, as the team needs to scrape to sign those others I listed before. And again, pushing Ben's 19 mil is bad business, plain and simple. Ben was rarely efficient downfield last year. His main success came from PI's against underthrown balls to Claypool. He was amongst the worst for yards per attempt because he is now immobile, the line cannot protect him, and his arm is done. The offense you saw last season cannot change much with the same guy taking snaps. Team needs to establish a consistent run game, and instill much more play action into it's playbook. Ben is not the guy for that anymore for reasons listed above.I've learned that you never try to understand the cap. Ben can stretch that 19 million over several years and others can. If they are going to try one more shot with Ben, you'll be surprised what sort of team they have next year. Losing Bush and then Dupree turned that D from "great" to "very good". Do they need JJ? No, but he may come at a discount. They were firing on all cylinders for 10 games. For one reason or another, they quit throwing the ball downfield half way through the season. That is what clogged everything up. They were running the ball effectively for 6 or 7 games this season. And if the Broncos can win with a broken down Manning (who looked much worse than Ben does), then so can the Steelers.
I'm not sure that I agree that Ben is washed up entirely. The reason his yards per attempt was down was due largely to using the short passing game in place of the run. The non-existent running game was by far the biggest problem for the offense and I blame that on the offensive line and running backs although the coaching gets blame as well. Ben was also plagued with an incredible number of drops.Dupree and JuJu's market prices are well over 15 mil due to others with similar production. They're both gone, as the team needs to scrape to sign those others I listed before. And again, pushing Ben's 19 mil is bad business, plain and simple. Ben was rarely efficient downfield last year. His main success came from PI's against underthrown balls to Claypool. He was amongst the worst for yards per attempt because he is now immobile, the line cannot protect him, and his arm is done. The offense you saw last season cannot change much with the same guy taking snaps. Team needs to establish a consistent run game, and instill much more play action into it's playbook. Ben is not the guy for that anymore for reasons listed above.
Yes, Manning won a SB riding his D, while looking bad. How many times have you seen that with a 39 yr old washed up QB? This post season we saw both Rivers and Brees realize it's time to go, and who both had running games and a D to lean on. Ben threw 4 picks against the Browns in a home playoff game, so how much more of that can anyone stomach? The best is well past him, so it's time to go.
You just don't want to waste years of Watt and Fitz on D.I'm not sure that I agree that Ben is washed up entirely. The reason his yards per attempt was down was due largely to using the short passing game in place of the run. The non-existent running game was by far the biggest problem for the offense and I blame that on the offensive line and running backs although the coaching gets blame as well. Ben was also plagued with an incredible number of drops.
Ben did throw 4 picks against the Browns and there is no sugar coating that: it was a bad day for sure. On the other hand he also threw for 500 yards and 4 TDs. Given a decent running game and if they keep the defense intact they could compete next season (although the schedule is brutal).
I do agree with you that financially the best thing for the team would be for Ben to retire. Let Rudolph and whoever settles in as backup take the team as far as they can in 2021. If we manage to have a decent season then great. If we suck then use the high draft position in 2022 to rebuild.
True, but they'll still be dominant in 2-4 years (at least in my opinion), so isn't it more of a waste if the Steelers don't think Ben can win a Super Bowl but trot him out anyways, instead of pulling the trigger on a possible replacement? I think the Steelers try for another attempt, but between the tough schedule and Ben being 1 year older, I think our chances at a Super Bowl win are probably less than 2%. I do think Ben gives us the best shot to win this year, but that keeping him significantly reduces our chances over the next 4+ years.Leeroy Jenkins said:You just don't want to waste years of Watt and Fitz on D.
I think Haskins is a decent flyer opportunity.True, but they'll still be dominant in 2-4 years (at least in my opinion), so isn't it more of a waste if the Steelers don't think Ben can win a Super Bowl but trot him out anyways, instead of pulling the trigger on a possible replacement? I think the Steelers try for another attempt, but between the tough schedule and Ben being 1 year older, I think our chances at a Super Bowl win are probably less than 2%. I do think Ben gives us the best shot to win this year, but that keeping him significantly reduces our chances over the next 4+ years.
Also, I know it changes from year to year, but so many teams need QBs and will need QBs in the near future, and the classes of 2022 and 2023 are allegedly not as good as this year.
I don't think that the Steelers go QB with their 1st, thereby missing out on the top talent, and I think we may come to regret that several years from now.
I completely forgot that they signed Dwayne Haskins. Who knows, maybe he's the answer to all our problems, but honestly, I really doubt it.
I guess, what's your version of a best case scenario? Something like this?I think Haskins is a decent flyer opportunity.
Ben was out all of last year and playing on a repaired throwing elbow. I think he hit a bit of a wall towards the end of the season which was magnified by injuries on the O-line and defense (creating bad situations), along with DROPS, the lack of a running game, and some poor play-calling. Not to mention playing 3 games in 12 days and getting screwed out of a real bye week,
Now if the Steelers are unable to put together an o-line and run game and keep skilled players due to the cap, then they should convince Ben to retire. But if they can make things work, then they should bring him back and try to win now. That was the best Steelers defense since the 90s at the beginning of the season, and Ben was CLICKING with his receivers. The end of the year leaves a bad taste, but I think the team was much better than that.
The main takeaway I saw, from people trying to be objective about it, was just that until the cap situation is confirmed, they can't really make any decisions. The overwhelming consensus from people that regularly cover Pitt appears to be "He's coming back." Or at least that's what I'm seeing. So I'd assume that's the case until we hear otherwise.Kevin Colbert didn't sound like he is sold on the idea of Ben coming back for another season. We should know in the next week or two...
Don't think they have a defined date but would for sure need to be done by March 17th.When do they release the cap number?
I heard today is won't be lower than $180MMWhen do they release the cap number?
My guess is that he would retire if the Steelers told him they were going to cut him.If the Steelers decide they'd rather try and force retirement on Ben what are opinions that he'd accept it? Do you think anyone else would want him and would he want to keep playing in another place? Like say Chicago?
My guess is that he either plays for the Steelers, or he retires, like Polamalu. That said, if he thinks that he has 3+ years left, and the Steelers try to get him to retire, then he could sign with the Bears, WFT, Carolina, or Texans (if they trade Deshaun). I think none of this happens, but those teams are some of the most desperate for a solid QB. Also, I think it would take Ben at least 1 year to get up to speed on a new system, and thus the Bears are probably out because they have to win in 2021 or get fired.If the Steelers decide they'd rather try and force retirement on Ben what are opinions that he'd accept it? Do you think anyone else would want him and would he want to keep playing in another place? Like say Chicago?
Yeah, the floor has gone up by $5 million, that's great news. Hopefully that means that it's expected to go even higher. If the TV deals are humongous, people have said that they could pull future money into 2021 to keep it at $198 mil.I heard today it won't be lower than $180MM
I am sure both of those guys are gone. Any money saved with Ben restructuring/retiring and reworking contracts with DeCastro/Haden/Williams, etc. needs to go to re-signing Hilton and/or Sutton, and working out long term deals for Minkah and TJ.I think Ben wants to come back, but if the team is going to be significantly different (and HIS guys are gone) he may just hang them up. With Pouncey already retired, I wonder if him staying hinges on whether there is enough cap space created through restructuring his deal to keep Juju and Villanueva?
I am just looking at it from Ben's perspective. I think he may only come back if they promise to use the cap savings based on his sacrifice to keep HIS guys. He already lost Pouncey.I am sure both of those guys are gone. Any money saved with Ben restructuring/retiring and reworking contracts with DeCastro/Haden/Williams, etc. needs to go to re-signing Hilton and/or Sutton, and working out long term deals for Minkah and TJ.
I think the days of Ben calling the shots, if they ever existed, are long gone.I am just looking at it from Ben's perspective. I think he may only come back if they promise to use the cap savings based on his sacrifice to keep HIS guys. He already lost Pouncey.
This could be why Rooney and Colbert are out there talking to the media about it. The implications from their comments seems to be, we'll see how this aligns with the team's plans/cap situation. Ben has some leverage, but only if the Steelers really want him to come back, and the outward comments have not illustrated that. If he makes Demands, he'll probably be let go.I am just looking at it from Ben's perspective. I think he may only come back if they promise to use the cap savings based on his sacrifice to keep HIS guys. He already lost Pouncey.
Updated Mock assuming no trades and trying to use semi-realistic landing spots, like no 1st round graded players in the 3rd, etc. This mock is based on several assumptions: resigning Banner and Feiler to start at Tackle spots and compete with Chuks; keeping Ben for at least 1 more year; resigning Sutton but releasing 1 of Haden/Nelson; Juju, Big Al, Dupree are gone; resign Alualu. What I think they could do, not 100% what I think they should do.Way too early mock draft that won't come true because all of these players will move up. Used several big boards/mock drafts to try to not make any ridiculous reaches. Coming away with OT, C, RB, WR, CB with the first 5 picks would be an ideal scenario for me (if there's no QB the FO loves).
- 1. Alex Leatherwood - OT - Bama
- 2. Landon Dickerson - C - Bama
- 3. Kenneth Gainwell - RB - Memphis
- 4. Elijah Moore - WR - Ole Miss (Slot)
- 4. Shemar Jean-Charles - CB - Appalachian State
Article on Ben's emotional investment if his guys are gone.Godsbrother said:I think the days of Ben calling the shots, if they ever existed, are long gone.
Yeah I have no idea where Ben's head is.Article on Ben's emotional investment if his guys are gone.
This is kind of what I am getting at. If Pouncey, JuJu, and Villanueva (and others) are gone, does Ben really have any incentive to come back, and if so, will he really be ALL IN?
He has shown of few glimpses of being an adequate backup but I don't think anyone believes he is a franchise QB. If Ben hangs it up the Steelers could be tempted to move up in the draft if Mac Jones drops but more likely they would go with Rudolph or Haskins and hope for the best.As much a I think its time for ben to move on - i really dont like rudolph
Ben guaranteed 43 million. My guess is you need extend next couple year cap hits with guaranteed moneys for him to agree.Steelers draft priority should be in order:
OL, OL, then OL.
And Ben should probably call it a career. If they want a QB to hold it down for a year, I am sure Carolina would give up Bridgewater for little.
Only players they should be talking to are Watt and Fitzpatrick.
We can tender Dwayne Haskins in 2022. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2927668-dwayne-haskins-rumors-former-wft-qb-visits-steelers-after-meeting-with-panthersHe has shown of few glimpses of being an adequate backup but I don't think anyone believes he is a franchise QB. If Ben hangs it up the Steelers could be tempted to move up in the draft if Mac Jones drops but more likely they would go with Rudolph or Haskins and hope for the best.
If they suck then you likely have a high draft pick to get your guy in 2022.
The problem is if either plays really well they will be UFAs in 2022 and you probably aren't going to franchise them