He did the same thing the previous week, twice. Ben seems reluctant to throw deep towards the middle of the field. Claypool has had inside leverage multiple times, but the throw is to the sideline.
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2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Godsbrother
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He did the same thing the previous week, twice. Ben seems reluctant to throw deep towards the middle of the field. Claypool has had inside leverage multiple times, but the throw is to the sideline.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
I don't think drafting a QB in round 1 was the answer last year, but I also think signing Ben for this year was a big mistake. I'd rather have let them run this year giving Rudolph a chance to sink or swim, but that would've meant they'd have to acknowledge this roster isn't a contender. It's just not, even when healthy. Best case scenario, Ben would still be the 4th best QB in his own division and they made no effort or had no ability to fix the OL issues in one offseason. Even if the defense managed to stay healthy for 17 games (which never happens), the offense was never going to be anything but average at best. That's not a contending roster in the AFC in a strong division against a tough schedule. Loyalty and pride are the reasons they delayed the rebuild for a year.
What hurts the most to me is that I believe signing Ben for this season creates a $10M+ cap hit for next year when the rebuild will officially be underway.
What hurts the most to me is that I believe signing Ben for this season creates a $10M+ cap hit for next year when the rebuild will officially be underway.
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Can any of you guys give me a read on what’s wrong with the defense? Is it injuries? If so, what’s timetable on when they are getting guys back? Do you all see this very talented unit getting back into their typical dominant form as the season progresses? Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.
And as a tortured Skins/WFT, my condolences for the tough stretch of losses. We’re very used to it at this point, but I know you guys aren’t used to being in this position.
And as a tortured Skins/WFT, my condolences for the tough stretch of losses. We’re very used to it at this point, but I know you guys aren’t used to being in this position.
Johnson is the best Steeler on the offensive side.Leeroy Jenkins said:
Johnny Utah #9
Footballguy
Is that it though? I thought they were dealing with multiple injuries? And is Watt expected back soon?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So you quit there, but run a play the previous week for no reason and get your best WR hurt.
There are a ton of injuries, but none have the impact Watt does. He might be the best overall player in the NFL.
I expect him to play next week.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Last week they were missing Haden, Bush, and Tuitt, and then Watt & Alualu left early with an injury. This week they were missing Watt, Tuitt, Alualu, and Highsmith. When you're missing 4 of your front 5 it makes it hard to get pressure. This D will improve when they get Watt back, but it probably won't be dominant until it gets closer to full health.
Also, Ben will put this D in bad situations with the other team taking over with good field position.
steelers1080
Footballguy
I'm willing to give Ben and Canada 1-2 more games to figure it out. New offense, old dog, etc. I think Ben is done and Canada's offense doesn't seem to be working with our current personnel. But I'm not going to start calling for replacements yet.
If the team doesn't look significantly better over the next 2 weeks, then changes need to be made for Tomlin to maintain credibility. The first domino should be benching Ben and seeing how Rudolph or Haskins runs Matt Canada's offense. If, after a handful of weeks, the offense still is garbage, then it shows that Canada's schemes aren't working with who we have and he's not able to properly adapt to the NFL level of competition.
If this team ends with 4/5 wins (or less) and Big Ben was never benched, then I finally might start to doubt Tomlin and actually support a change. The coach is supposed to put the team first, and do what it takes to win, not appease players on their way into retirement. If Tomlin does sit Ben to try out the younger QBs, and the team still doesn't have success, then I'm willing to give Tomlin/FO a chance to replace Canada and try their hand with a new rookie QB next year.
That said, some of the in game coaching already this year has been disappointing.
If the team doesn't look significantly better over the next 2 weeks, then changes need to be made for Tomlin to maintain credibility. The first domino should be benching Ben and seeing how Rudolph or Haskins runs Matt Canada's offense. If, after a handful of weeks, the offense still is garbage, then it shows that Canada's schemes aren't working with who we have and he's not able to properly adapt to the NFL level of competition.
If this team ends with 4/5 wins (or less) and Big Ben was never benched, then I finally might start to doubt Tomlin and actually support a change. The coach is supposed to put the team first, and do what it takes to win, not appease players on their way into retirement. If Tomlin does sit Ben to try out the younger QBs, and the team still doesn't have success, then I'm willing to give Tomlin/FO a chance to replace Canada and try their hand with a new rookie QB next year.
That said, some of the in game coaching already this year has been disappointing.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Ben won't be benched. He might get hurt though. I think Canada is limiting some plays/formations based on some of Ben's physical limitations. Some of it is also just implementing the new scheme with a lot of rookies. I was giving them until Week 4 to get things worked out, but maybe with some of the injuries and the O-line not being put together until the end of camp, I give them until week 5 or 6 before we know whether we suck or not.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Any chance the run blocking will improve? Can this group gel or just not enough talent?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Sure they might improve because they've been so bad it is hard to imagine them getting worse.
The trouble is they got banged up yesterday and their schedule is so tough that they are actually in the easy part right now.
We were hoping the o-line wouldn't be completely awful early on and let the wiley veteran QB and all of the talent they have a the skill positions weather the storm for when the schedule gets tougher.
That seems like an unlikely outcome now.
No he isn't. Claypool is by far the most talented, but they don't throw him the ball enough.... and Big Ben sucks this year and is done
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Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Disappointing, but expected. In-game coaching isn't exactly a strength of Tomlin. Never has been, never will be.
Steeler
Footballguy
I've never been a Tomlin basher but I understand all the criticisms aimed at him, and with lesser talented players the need for in-game adjustments and better planning in general is needed. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be a strength of Tomlin.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Yikes, the Steelers have scored the 2nd least points in the AFC, only ahead of the Jets.
Ok, if the team does manage to turn things around and turn this season into a success, what would it take?
If the offensive line was able to grow and improve then that could improve the pass pro and run game in 1, but the odds of this happening with no change in personnel and mid-season aren't high.
I don't think that Ben will improve with his passing down the middle of the field. If we want to improve here, or get more mobile at QB to hide O-line issues, we'll have to bench him. But, his on field decision making is better than Rudolph or Haskins (in theory, that 4th down throw was garbage).
Overall, it is possible that this team could improve by a significant amount by the end of the season, but this is supposed to be the easy stretch in our tough schedule. Any improvement will probably be too late to help us get to the playoffs, but just in time to prevent us from getting a high draft pick to use on a QB.
Also, after a few weeks the trade for Witherspoon seems like a bad move. Gave up 2 5th round picks for a guy that was inactive last week (regular pick and probably lost a comp pick).
Ok, if the team does manage to turn things around and turn this season into a success, what would it take?
- Get healthy on defense
- Have the offensive line come together
- Improved passing down the middle of the field
- Improved running game (relies on offensive line)
- Win turnover differential
If the offensive line was able to grow and improve then that could improve the pass pro and run game in 1, but the odds of this happening with no change in personnel and mid-season aren't high.
I don't think that Ben will improve with his passing down the middle of the field. If we want to improve here, or get more mobile at QB to hide O-line issues, we'll have to bench him. But, his on field decision making is better than Rudolph or Haskins (in theory, that 4th down throw was garbage).
Overall, it is possible that this team could improve by a significant amount by the end of the season, but this is supposed to be the easy stretch in our tough schedule. Any improvement will probably be too late to help us get to the playoffs, but just in time to prevent us from getting a high draft pick to use on a QB.
Also, after a few weeks the trade for Witherspoon seems like a bad move. Gave up 2 5th round picks for a guy that was inactive last week (regular pick and probably lost a comp pick).
steelers1080
Footballguy
With the 2022 QB draft class off to a mediocre start this year, we could be in for some trouble if we go all-in. I think the chance that we go O-line in the 1st and just roll with Mason/Dwayne is not an impossibility. Our offensive line looks horrendous so far this year.
Also, as per usual, the rumblings have started about Tomlin. He is signed through the 2024 season, and this season will most likely be his first losing season. Some people are calling for change, saying that things have grown stagnant. I still think he's one of the top 8 coaches in the league and I'm not sure who would be a better replacement, but if the Steelers were to move on, could he be traded?
In the past Parcells, Belichik, and Gruden were all traded for 1st round picks plus more (sometimes multiple 1sts). Are there other teams in need of coaches who would be interested? And if so, who would the Steelers target for success?
The Bears, Giants, and Vikings seem like possibilities, but I'm not sure if a team would want to trade for a HC as opposed to hiring one.
Three of the top coaching candidates so far, I think, are Kellen Moore, Byron Leftwich, and Mike McDaniel.
They're all offensive coaches who have shown an ability to adapt to the talent they have on hand and to create a scheme that is competent for today's NFL. Leftwich has the benefit of working with the best QB of all time, but his offense with Jameis was very productive too. It was mainly the defense and turnovers that let them down. Kellen Moore has transformed the Dallas offense from hot trash under Garrett, into one of the most prolific in the NFL. They have the benefit of a star QB, solid RBs, amazing WRs, and great O-line, but he has shown an affinity for play calling and design. Mike McDaniel is more of a wild card. He's the run game coordinator for Kyle Shanahan, so it's not 100% clear who is the reason behind their rushing success. Either way, the buzz around the league is that he's a solid leader who is on the rise.
The fear is that we'll become just another team that rolls through coaches one after the other. Stability is important for success and is one of the reasons that the Steelers have been one of the most successful franchises in the Super Bowl era. If/when the Steelers move on from Tomlin we have to give his replacement time to create their own culture. People are already calling for Canada to be replaced after 3 games (possibly rightly so), but it can't be the same for whoever the next coach is. The grass isn't always greener.
Also, as per usual, the rumblings have started about Tomlin. He is signed through the 2024 season, and this season will most likely be his first losing season. Some people are calling for change, saying that things have grown stagnant. I still think he's one of the top 8 coaches in the league and I'm not sure who would be a better replacement, but if the Steelers were to move on, could he be traded?
In the past Parcells, Belichik, and Gruden were all traded for 1st round picks plus more (sometimes multiple 1sts). Are there other teams in need of coaches who would be interested? And if so, who would the Steelers target for success?
The Bears, Giants, and Vikings seem like possibilities, but I'm not sure if a team would want to trade for a HC as opposed to hiring one.
Three of the top coaching candidates so far, I think, are Kellen Moore, Byron Leftwich, and Mike McDaniel.
They're all offensive coaches who have shown an ability to adapt to the talent they have on hand and to create a scheme that is competent for today's NFL. Leftwich has the benefit of working with the best QB of all time, but his offense with Jameis was very productive too. It was mainly the defense and turnovers that let them down. Kellen Moore has transformed the Dallas offense from hot trash under Garrett, into one of the most prolific in the NFL. They have the benefit of a star QB, solid RBs, amazing WRs, and great O-line, but he has shown an affinity for play calling and design. Mike McDaniel is more of a wild card. He's the run game coordinator for Kyle Shanahan, so it's not 100% clear who is the reason behind their rushing success. Either way, the buzz around the league is that he's a solid leader who is on the rise.
The fear is that we'll become just another team that rolls through coaches one after the other. Stability is important for success and is one of the reasons that the Steelers have been one of the most successful franchises in the Super Bowl era. If/when the Steelers move on from Tomlin we have to give his replacement time to create their own culture. People are already calling for Canada to be replaced after 3 games (possibly rightly so), but it can't be the same for whoever the next coach is. The grass isn't always greener.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Leftwich is also a former Steeler.
The Rooneys would not trade for a coach. They will be looking for another young person to be here 10-20 more years again.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Agreed.
Tomlin is not going anywhere this season or even next unless he resigns or gets into a serious disagreement with Mr. Rooney.
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steelers1080
Footballguy
I don't think we'd have to trade for any of the coaches I mentioned because they're currently coordinators. I was more asking if we could trade Tomlin away (if it came to that). As opposed to just letting him go, or him resigning.
steelers1080
Footballguy
If the Steelers end the season with 3 wins he might be on the hot seat. 3 wins might sound like an overreaction, but we have a really tough schedule, and most of the teams on it are better than the Bengals and Raiders.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The team is better than these last two weeks. They did go into Buffalo and win after all. Defensive injuries killed these past two week. You cannot expect a pass rush with all those guys out using practice squad players as what was once the position of strength.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Correct, they did beat Buffalo with their defense at almost full strength and offense at full strength, and got lucky with a punt blocked for a TD. In years past I would expect the Steelers to be competitive if the defense held opponents to 24/27 pts, but we weren't really competitive in either of the next 2 games. The offense is still terrible and does not appear to have changed much from last year. Run on 1st down for nothing or penalty, and pass within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.
I do not expect practice squad guys to play as well as the best linebacker in the NFL, but our offense was much worse than the defense was last week, even with all the replacement players.
If the D gets healthy and the O-line improves, we have a shot for sure to put up a fight with most teams in the league. But we keep losing players to injury, and I think it will take a while for the young players on the O-line to improve. Also, based on the first 3 weeks, it doesn't look like Ben can make the throws necessary to keep opposing teams honest. The middle of the field has become a wasteland devoid of Steelers' pass catchers.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Sure would have been nice to have been able to keep Ola too --- 2.5 sacks in 3 games with the Titans?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Looks like JuJu and Kendrick Green's injuries were not serious and both will be able to practice this week. The jury is still out for Dionte Johnson, TJ Watt and Highsmith. Chuks Okorafor is in concussion protocol so not sure how that will go.
In a surprise move the Steelers activated LB Derrek Tuszka to the 53-man roster from the practice squad and waived LB Jamir Jones. That is a pretty sharp drop for Jones who went from starting last week to unemployed this week.
In a surprise move the Steelers activated LB Derrek Tuszka to the 53-man roster from the practice squad and waived LB Jamir Jones. That is a pretty sharp drop for Jones who went from starting last week to unemployed this week.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
They expect him to make it back to the practice squad. How many snaps have Marcus Allen and UG3 had? I still think it was a mistake keeping so many ILBs and letting Roche go. He apparently has only played 3 snaps with the Giants . . . .
steelers1080
Footballguy
Rumors are that the Texans are dropping the asking price for Deshaun Watson, any chance the Steelers make inquiries? His conduct appears to be gross, if not illegal, but the Steelers have overlooked "issues" in the past at the QB position.
streamkeeper
Footballguy
Steeler
Footballguy
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
overall I agree but giving up that TD with 40 seconds at the end of the half after the Steelers had just tied the game was bad
Godsbrother
Footballguy
The issues with Watson are a couple of magnitudes of order more serious than those with Ben and he was already on the roster
Any team trading for Watson would be doing so willingly and assuming that huge contract. Why would you take that risk?
McBokonon
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
Because talent-wise he's one of the top QBs in the entire league? He appears to be a not good person, but many teams have overlooked sins for sake of talent.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
It goes beyond that. Trading for Watson would not only involve draft picks but assuming a cap hit of over $150 million over the next 4 years
Watson has 22 civil cases pending against him and the FBI is reportedly looking into criminal charges. Beyond the obvious PR nightmare of trading for him you have a very real possibility of NFL suspensions and possibly jail time.
Do you think this is a wise move for the Steelers?
steelers1080
Footballguy
Nope.Godsbrother said:
But I do 100% think they should look into it. Watson is a top 5 QB and should be moving forward (assuming he plays). If the Steelers do independent investigations into the situation and find that the allegations are not as they seem, and Watson will be cleared to play, then it's possible he could be on the field later this year (not likely). The cap hit could end up being cheap over the next 4 years as QB prices explode and the Steelers cap space is wide open after next year.
If Watson was cleared to play and was the Steelers starting QB I think he'd immediately make the Steelers a Super Bowl contender. That's why you at least look into it.
But no, it's not a wise move to trade for him without extensive investigations/research. If it turns out he did sexually assault any of the 22 women, then I don't care if he gets cleared by the NFL, I wouldn't want him on the Steelers.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
With this offensive line Jesus Christ himself couldn't make this team a Super Bowl contender. Walking on water is a breeze in comparison
steelers1080
Footballguy
But according to some online pundits, Zach Banner's imminent return is going to cure all the offensive line woes and we shouldn't be overly worried about this team missing the playoffs.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Well I hope they are right because the last two weeks have been among the worst offensive line play I've ever seen from a Steelers team
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Any chance they sign Schwartz/Okung/Wagner? They have some money and they can’t be worse then what they are running out there every Sunday.
Schwartz has recently said he is 100% and fully ready to go.
Schwartz has recently said he is 100% and fully ready to go.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Unless they've got a couple of server rooms at Heinz devoted to mining Bitcoin, they can probably forget about Okung.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Wednesday's practice report
Limited: WR Dionte Johnson, LB TJ Watt, LB Alex Highsmith, OL Rashaard Coward
DNP: QB Ben Roethlisberger, WR JuJu Smith-Schuster, DT Carlos Davis, OL Chuks Okorafor
Limited: WR Dionte Johnson, LB TJ Watt, LB Alex Highsmith, OL Rashaard Coward
DNP: QB Ben Roethlisberger, WR JuJu Smith-Schuster, DT Carlos Davis, OL Chuks Okorafor
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Jamir Jones was claimed by the Rams.
The Steelers seem particularly bad with managing the roster and waivers. So now we have no depth at OLB again and guys who barely know the system, and will need people off of the street if more injuries occur. Are Marcus Allen and UG3 special teams studs right now??
The Steelers seem particularly bad with managing the roster and waivers. So now we have no depth at OLB again and guys who barely know the system, and will need people off of the street if more injuries occur. Are Marcus Allen and UG3 special teams studs right now??
steelers1080
Footballguy
Probably a bad move, like letting Ola get away. But, lots of guys who get signed off our PS or signed away from waivers don't turn into anything special.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Agreed. If they kept Ola, they probably don't sign Ingram.
This is more about now we have a dude who was on Denver's practice squad and another 1st round bust who doesn't even have a real position that has been here for a week backing up arguably the most important position in our defensive scheme. I guess Jones wasn't here THAT long either, but I am talking about knowledge and ability to play fast.
Where is Marsh (who I hate anyway)?
Just seems like we never play the waivers/numbers game right.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Maybe Skipper comes back. It took James Harrison a few times on and off rosters to turn into the beast that he was.
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