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2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (2 Viewers)

I realize the Steelers are stupid and have no idea what they are doing but apparently saw enough about Jones to assume the risk of him not clearing waivers.

Yet another pro-bowl player lost ...

 
Pity Party Over! (for now)

Deciding to go full optimist because it's more fun while it lasts. This team currently has a horrendous offense and is decimated by injury, but they can still turn it around! Many offenses don't click immediately when implementing a new scheme. 

The O-line is going to get Banner back and replace Chuks at RT (who has been awful). The young players at LT/LG/C will continue to improve and by mid-season will be much better, perhaps allowing Ben more than 2 seconds to pass the ball before getting hit. Ben will suddenly realize that the middle of the field does still exist, and passes of 10+ yards will start to flow to Diontae, Juju, and the TEs. Najee and Pat Frieirmuth look like the real deal and will continue to make this offense better and better as the season goes along. Their limited touches now, at the beginning of the season (last game excluded) will allow them to bypass the rookie wall. Also, the offense starts to really roll after the Bye with more time to implement Canada's plan, and allow him to update scheme based on what's working and what's not. 

The defense is going to get healthy and return to kick-### form. Alualu is lost for the year, but Tuitt, Watt, Highsmith, Bush, Haden will all get fully healthy and restart our defensive domination of teams. Bush is going to get better and better the further removed from his ACL he gets, so by the end of the season he has several picks and forced fumbles, along with a significant amount of tackles. Watt doesn't lead the league in sacks like many hoped, but he is top 5 even with missed games. Overall the Defense allows an average of 13 pts per game over the final 8 weeks and we're able to pull off some unexpected wins. 

The season ends with the Steelers at 10-7 but we're able to sneak into the final wildcard spot where we take down the Bills AGAIN in Buffalo to move on. 

The Steelers get absolutely destroyed this Sunday by the Packers, but then the players hold a secret team meeting and rally to go on a winning streak to win the next 5 games in a row. They then split the last 8 games to end the season 10-7, sweeping the Ravens to everyone's delight. 

 
I realize the Steelers are stupid and have no idea what they are doing but apparently saw enough about Jones to assume the risk of him not clearing waivers.

Yet another pro-bowl player lost ...
It's more about timing and risk etc.  They didn't need to waive him yet, right?  The other guy reverted back to PS automatically?  Was Jones demonstrably worse?

 
It's more about timing and risk etc.  They didn't need to waive him yet, right?  The other guy reverted back to PS automatically?  Was Jones demonstrably worse?
Tuszka played pretty well.  Although Jones did grade higher as a pass rusher.

Jones had terrible grades for run defense and tackling 

 
It's more about timing and risk etc.  They didn't need to waive him yet, right?  The other guy reverted back to PS automatically?  Was Jones demonstrably worse?


I think the Steelers thought he was pretty bad and it was time to make a change or else they wouldn't have waived him.  

 
steelers1080 said:
Pity Party Over! (for now)

Deciding to go full optimist because it's more fun while it lasts. This team currently has a horrendous offense and is decimated by injury, but they can still turn it around! Many offenses don't click immediately when implementing a new scheme. 

The O-line is going to get Banner back and replace Chuks at RT (who has been awful). The young players at LT/LG/C will continue to improve and by mid-season will be much better, perhaps allowing Ben more than 2 seconds to pass the ball before getting hit. Ben will suddenly realize that the middle of the field does still exist, and passes of 10+ yards will start to flow to Diontae, Juju, and the TEs. Najee and Pat Frieirmuth look like the real deal and will continue to make this offense better and better as the season goes along. Their limited touches now, at the beginning of the season (last game excluded) will allow them to bypass the rookie wall. Also, the offense starts to really roll after the Bye with more time to implement Canada's plan, and allow him to update scheme based on what's working and what's not. 

The defense is going to get healthy and return to kick-### form. Alualu is lost for the year, but Tuitt, Watt, Highsmith, Bush, Haden will all get fully healthy and restart our defensive domination of teams. Bush is going to get better and better the further removed from his ACL he gets, so by the end of the season he has several picks and forced fumbles, along with a significant amount of tackles. Watt doesn't lead the league in sacks like many hoped, but he is top 5 even with missed games. Overall the Defense allows an average of 13 pts per game over the final 8 weeks and we're able to pull off some unexpected wins. 

The season ends with the Steelers at 10-7 but we're able to sneak into the final wildcard spot where we take down the Bills AGAIN in Buffalo to move on. 

The Steelers get absolutely destroyed this Sunday by the Packers, but then the players hold a secret team meeting and rally to go on a winning streak to win the next 5 games in a row. They then split the last 8 games to end the season 10-7, sweeping the Ravens to everyone's delight. 
I like the optimism but other than TJ Watt, do we have a single player on the team who is the best player at his position in the division?  

 
I like the optimism but other than TJ Watt, do we have a single player on the team who is the best player at his position in the division?  


We are loaded with talent.

Najee might not be yet - but I'd bet he can or will be and he's not far off.  He looks like an 8 or 9 in just about everything.  He already looks like a seasoned veteran.  Think about what you saw so far with the train wreck we are and think about typical rookie RB's.

We won't know what Claypool can do until fatso is benched.  Really the same can be said for Dionte and Friermuth - but if I'm Claypool I'd be screaming to GTFO of Pittsburgh.  Remember he has a 7-9 year career to consider to make $$ and this year so far looks like a waste if not a significant injury concern.

Heyward.  He's somewhat benefitting from being the vet/team leader etc - but he crushes constantly.  He is in every play he is on the field.  I am not surprised he has aged well.

Minkah is overwhelmed which is also unfortunate.  He makes good and great plays every game I watched.

We paid $26 million dollars for Ben.  (And another $3 million for Derek Watt).  What did you think was going to happen?  I would have also cut Ebron if we get the $5 million back.

The standard only works if you apply it equally.

 
I like the optimism but other than TJ Watt, do we have a single player on the team who is the best player at his position in the division?  
I would say Cam Heyward and Minkah Fitzpatrick. And that it's possible we have the best RB/TE/WR over the next few years. A lot of people are putting down Minkah, but I think that he's having to cover for other mistakes on the defense by young/inexperienced players so it looks like he's getting there late because someone else screwed up. The pick by Edmunds last week only happened because Minkah was there to make a play on the ball and pop it up. 

WR will be close depending on how Claypool and Johnson develop, but I think the only 2 WRs who might be better are Chase and Landry. Pat could become the best TE in the north, I think he'll at least give Andrews a run for his money. And Najee has a very good shot at being the best in 1-3 years. RB has a short shelf life and all the other RBs in the North are already on their second contracts, and Dobbins has a broken knee. 

Currently our O-line, QB, CBs might be the worst in the division. But our O-line and CBs are young and could develop and improve. QB will need to be addressed next year, and O-line probably will as well. The 2022 QB class coming out of college doesn't look great, and the free agent group isn't impressive, not sure we'll be able to improve there. We might have to roll with Rudolph/Haskins for a year, then see what happens in 2023 (but instead the FO will probably just take a QB next year who's just ok). 

 
I would say Cam Heyward and Minkah Fitzpatrick. And that it's possible we have the best RB/TE/WR over the next few years. A lot of people are putting down Minkah, but I think that he's having to cover for other mistakes on the defense by young/inexperienced players so it looks like he's getting there late because someone else screwed up. The pick by Edmunds last week only happened because Minkah was there to make a play on the ball and pop it up. 

WR will be close depending on how Claypool and Johnson develop, but I think the only 2 WRs who might be better are Chase and Landry. Pat could become the best TE in the north, I think he'll at least give Andrews a run for his money. And Najee has a very good shot at being the best in 1-3 years. RB has a short shelf life and all the other RBs in the North are already on their second contracts, and Dobbins has a broken knee. 

Currently our O-line, QB, CBs might be the worst in the division. But our O-line and CBs are young and could develop and improve. QB will need to be addressed next year, and O-line probably will as well. The 2022 QB class coming out of college doesn't look great, and the free agent group isn't impressive, not sure we'll be able to improve there. We might have to roll with Rudolph/Haskins for a year, then see what happens in 2023 (but instead the FO will probably just take a QB next year who's just ok). 
I like Minkah and think it is an aberration but he is playing terribly. PFF has him as the worst safety in the NFL at this point.

Heyward is currently the top ranked interior lineman in the NFL. 

Both CBs are well above average at least. Worst in the division is nonsense. 

The NFL isn't fantasy football. Harris has not played well at all. 

 
Chase Claypool and Chuks Okorafor are out this week so Steelers have elevated WR Cody White and OT Chaz Green to the regular roster from the practice squad.

 
I get that the play calling is atrocious but the current version of Ben gives this team no shot at moving the ball.  Rudolph is also pretty bad but not this bad.  But maybe the end goal should be to keep losing (so that they can try to replace Ben).  

 
Wow, this team is bad.

The offensive line is offensive, but Ben can't miss JuJu on those two throws.  And why do they continually throw the ball behind the sticks on 4th down?  :lol:   :sadbanana: :bag:

 
Feeling pretty good right now about my decision to not watch either of the past two games. <back pat> 

Gonna make it three in a row next week fo' sho'.  I can get angry and drunk without the added stress of watching this team attempt to move the ball.
 

Steeler said:
And why do they continually throw the ball behind the sticks on 4th down?  :lol:   :sadbanana: :bag:
 
This feels like a question that's been asked about Steelers' offenses for, like, 30 years.  "It's what they do" is probably the best answer we're going to come up with, I'm afraid.

 
I’ve never seen a team throw 3-4 yards short of the marker on 3rd down as much as this team does. What’s with that? How about a route tree that gets the first down with a catch once in awhile?

 
I’ve never seen a team throw 3-4 yards short of the marker on 3rd down as much as this team does. What’s with that? How about a route tree that gets the first down with a catch once in awhile?
Other teams do it from time to time but not this often and rarely in critical situation like this team does.

i am not sure who is making these decisions but if it doesn’t stop they need to lose their job.

 
Seems like Harris was having a decent day on the ground; why give up after the first half?

Seems like Ben isn’t comfortable with the offense, the oline, or his arm. 

 
The Steelers probably would have lost anyway but but the offsides call on the blocked FG TD return was a killer.   I guess pre-snap penalties can't be reviewed but that was a 10 point swing that really hurt.

 
I will say this, Najee does not go down easily, if at all.  Lots of plays where nobody can bring him down but forward progress is stopped.

They absolutely have to do a better job of committing to the run and disguising run plays.  Like everyone has said for years -- that will open everything else up.  I don't know if it is Canada, or Ben just not wanting to hand off or not use certain formations.

 
It feels like Canada is trying to run his scheme that is 100% not made for an old, immobile QB. It also feels like a decent OC crafts his scheme around the skills and abilities of their players. 

I don't think Canada is entirely to blame for the offensive woes, but he definitely wasn't the cure all I was hoping he'd be after the terrible offense under Fichtner. A bad O-line, a QB that seems to have the Yips, and inopportune drops combine to form the worst offense we've seen from the Steelers in a really long time.

If Ben continues to play horribly, I hope the team gives the backups a shot to run the offense. Just to confirm that the offense isn't working no matter who is at the helm. A younger/more mobile QB might make a ton of difference for this scheme. Old dog, new tricks and whatnot. 

 
It feels like Canada is trying to run his scheme that is 100% not made for an old, immobile QB. It also feels like a decent OC crafts his scheme around the skills and abilities of their players. 

I don't think Canada is entirely to blame for the offensive woes, but he definitely wasn't the cure all I was hoping he'd be after the terrible offense under Fichtner. A bad O-line, a QB that seems to have the Yips, and inopportune drops combine to form the worst offense we've seen from the Steelers in a really long time.

If Ben continues to play horribly, I hope the team gives the backups a shot to run the offense. Just to confirm that the offense isn't working no matter who is at the helm. A younger/more mobile QB might make a ton of difference for this scheme. Old dog, new tricks and whatnot. 


Perhaps Ben's elbow will start to "hurt" and need some "rest" at some point.

 
Perhaps Ben's elbow will start to "hurt" and need some "rest" at some point.
Yeah, the articles being written now say that the only way Tomlin benches Ben is if Ben benches Ben.

I honestly think that Tomlin doesn't bench Ben this season, the only way Ben isn't the starter is if he's hurt or "hurt". If the Steelers are eliminated from the playoffs, they should 100% bench Ben and see what they have behind him (although I'm pretty sure about Rudolph, most QBs don't just become better after 4 years unless they played for Adam Gase). 

If the Steelers are 1-5 at the bye they should probably sit Ben (if he looked the same the next 2 games). If the Steelers are 2-4 or somehow 3-3, and Ben looks better, then keep rolling. If they're 2-4 or 3-3 and Ben is still garbage, a good coach would sit him. 

Also, I'm still in the camp of give Tomlin a shot with a new QB next year, but I am finally starting to come around to the idea of replacing him. He has been one of the most successful coaches of all time and has never had a losing season, that is just incredible. But, the Steelers have won 3 playoff games since the 2011 Super Bowl. One was a free gift from the Bungles with the ridiculous penalties at the end, the other 2 were in the 2016 season where we had a decent run but lost to the Pats in the AFC Championship. Losses in that span include teams lead by Tim Tebow and Blake Bortles. 

This team feels stuck in a rut and I'm not sure where the blame lies. I'm willing to give Tomlin a year without Ben (and a full offseason, unlike last year) to see if he can turn it around. The team has talent throughout the roster and will have lots of cap space soon. But Tomlin continues to make bad/conservative calls late in game, doesn't have a good history against poor opponents, does not seem to be able to hire any assistants that are good enough for other teams to be interested, and is terrible at challenges. All head coaches make some boneheaded moves (see Payton and Taysom Hill) and there are times when teams just need a change. Andy Reid and Philly needed that breakup for Reid to find success in KC and for Philly to win that Super Bowl, but the grass isn't always greener.  

Current prediction is that Tomlin is the head coach through the 2022 season. 

 
Sounds like it's the hip.  So you were close. I think the hip is the "elbow of the pelvis", or some ish.
I honestly think it would be the best thing for the team to sit him due to injury 1 week, let Rudolph or Haskins start against a solid Broncos D and see how they do. If they do the same or worse than Ben, then whatever, season is probably not going to go great. If they do significantly better, we have our answer. 

 
Field Yates@FieldYates

Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin. Pals.

LINK
Lol, this is so overblown. Rodgers caught the Steelers trying to sub and was going to get them with 12 on the field, Tomlin was just nodding like, "I see what you doin." I wouldn't mind getting Rodgers, but we could be in the same problem within 2-3 years...

 
... " I wouldn't mind getting Rodgers, but we could be in the same problem within 2-3 years...
UPDATE on QB class for 2022 NFL draft.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Brent Sobleski@brentsobleski

Folks, the 2022 QB class could be a real problem & not in the good way.

NFL Draft Community Mailbag: Is There a Top-5 QB in the 2022 Class?

... Do you think the Pittsburgh Steelers can find a franchise quarterback in the upcoming draft class? — bubbadeuce

They can certainly draft a quarterback. Whether they feel good about the player being a true franchise guy remains to be seen. There are tons of question marks regarding all of the prospects, with even those at the top requiring more projection than in a typical class.

If the Steelers do pursue a quarterback early in the process, it would be a home run swing-type bet based on what we've seen so far. 

 
UPDATE on QB class for 2022 NFL draft.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Brent Sobleski@brentsobleski

Folks, the 2022 QB class could be a real problem & not in the good way.

NFL Draft Community Mailbag: Is There a Top-5 QB in the 2022 Class?

... Do you think the Pittsburgh Steelers can find a franchise quarterback in the upcoming draft class? — bubbadeuce

They can certainly draft a quarterback. Whether they feel good about the player being a true franchise guy remains to be seen. There are tons of question marks regarding all of the prospects, with even those at the top requiring more projection than in a typical class.

If the Steelers do pursue a quarterback early in the process, it would be a home run swing-type bet based on what we've seen so far. 
Yeah, the class doesn't look great. But the 2023 class doesn't seem a lot better either. There's probably at least a few solid prospects in there even if they aren't readily apparent. But all the more reason to draft and rebuild the rest of the team and roll with what we have at QB until we're truly ready to make a push (or if a decent Vet becomes available). 

Rodgers could be the perfect holdover until a better QB class comes along, but he could cost enough to hamper the team's improvement in other areas longer term. 

 
Yeah, the class doesn't look great. But the 2023 class doesn't seem a lot better either. There's probably at least a few solid prospects in there even if they aren't readily apparent. But all the more reason to draft and rebuild the rest of the team and roll with what we have at QB until we're truly ready to make a push (or if a decent Vet becomes available). 

Rodgers could be the perfect holdover until a better QB class comes along, but he could cost enough to hamper the team's improvement in other areas longer term. 


I think Rodgers is a pipe dream but I am totally on-board with bypassing the 2022 QB class and spending a high #1 on solidifying the offensive line or defensive backfield.  Considering their difficulties at evaluating DBs I would prefer to draft offensive line and opening the wallet and maybe going after an already established UFA like Kyle Fuller.

 
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Man, I'm so glad they passed on guys like Myers and Humphrey in the 2nd round, so they can take a TE they don't utilize. Also, money well spent on an old and fragile QB, who looks like a rookie out there.

 
Man, I'm so glad they passed on guys like Myers and Humphrey in the 2nd round, so they can take a TE they don't utilize. Also, money well spent on an old and fragile QB, who looks like a rookie out there.
I still prefer Green over either. Friermuth has looked great. They should utilize him more. 

 
Steelers Week 5 - Wednesday Practice Report 

QB Ben Roethlisberger - Pectoral/Hip - DNP
CB Cameron Sutton - Groin - DNP
OL Kevin Dotson - Hip - DNP
DT Carlos Davis - Knee - DNP
WR Chase Claypool - Hamstring - LP
WR JuJu Smith-Schuster - Ribs - LP
G  Trai Turner - Illness - LP
OL Rashaad Coward - Ankle - LP
DT Cameron Heyward - Neck - LP
OL Chukwuma Okorafor - Concussion - FP

Also of note is that OL Zach Banner and RB Anthony McFarland, both on the IR, have returned to practice.

 
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It feels like this team has had a lot of continuity over the past 8-10 years with lots of players signed to 2nd contracts, an O-line that stayed together for years, and a QB to lead them year after year. Within a couple years this team could be almost unrecognizable from this year. 

  • Tomlin signed through 2024, I'm not sure the Rooneys would fire him so I think it's 75/25 that he's still HC through at least then. I think most likely to happen is them to not resign him, or if he decides to leave. 
  • The Steelers only have 17 players signed for the 2023 season, including 8 Rookies. 
  • The Steelers have a lot of Vets reaching 2nd or 3rd contracts that don't appear like they'll be resigned.
  • There's also a few players who could be cap casualties over the next 2 years if the team isn't sold on them and wants to draft/sign replacements:

    Derek Watt - Could be cut after this year to save $2.7 mil (probably won't happen because TJ)
  • Cam Heyward - Could be cut prior to 2023 season to save $32 million (Hope this doesn't happen, he's still a beast, but getting older or injury could happen)
  • Zach Banner - Cutting before next season saves $5 million, never healthy
  • Stephon Tuitt - Would mainly be due to injury, would only save $4 million for next season. I think unlikely, but definitely possible they don't extend him further. 
  • Joe Schobert - If they cut him after this year the dead cap hit is $1.7 mil and gets rid of his 3 year $30 mil contract. I'm not sure they cut him because he has a small dead cap each year and has played serviceably so far. 

This team could, and probably will, look almost completely different by 2023, only 2 years from now. I'm not convinced our 2023 QB is currently on the roster, and our defense could look almost completely different with players aging out or not being resigned. 

It's exciting that the team has this opportunity to reload with new talent, but also a bit anxiety inducing since this huge amount of turnover could result in a great new team, or a new low that we haven't experienced in a long time. 

 
It is a real shame that AB went totally nuts for 8 months.  He makes that catch that JuJu totally whiffed on.  That route looked so rough and he was looking back the whole time instead of running.  That missed TD was not on Ben.

 
It is a real shame that AB went totally nuts for 8 months.  He makes that catch that JuJu totally whiffed on.  That route looked so rough and he was looking back the whole time instead of running.  That missed TD was not on Ben.


The pass could have been better but I agree that JuJu should have made that one.  I think JuJu thought so too which is why he smashed the tablet after reviewing the play.

 
It's exciting that the team has this opportunity to reload with new talent, but also a bit anxiety inducing since this huge amount of turnover could result in a great new team, or a new low that we haven't experienced in a long time. 


Without a doubt.  The cool thing about the NFL is that a team can go from worst to first (or vice verse) fairly quickly, even in one year.  

I think we can all agree that a franchise QB is very important for sustained success but a team that has a great defense and running game can win it all too.  

 
Without a doubt.  The cool thing about the NFL is that a team can go from worst to first (or vice verse) fairly quickly, even in one year.  

I think we can all agree that a franchise QB is very important for sustained success but a team that has a great defense and running game can win it all too.  
This can happen, but rarely does. It also is not a model for sustainable sucess.

 
This can happen, but rarely does. It also is not a model for sustainable sucess.
I don't know, I guess it depends on how you define sustained success.  The Steelers of 90s and early 00's didn't win a Super Bowl but they were pretty good.  

And I am by no means saying we shouldn't draft a QB #1 next year but is there a QB with a high chance to be that franchise player?  If not, shore up the offensive line and defense and go with Rudolph or Haskins

 
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I don't know, I guess it depends on how you define sustained success.  The Steelers of 90s and early 00's didn't win a Super Bowl but they were pretty good.  

And I am by no means saying we shouldn't draft a QB #1 next year but is there a QB with a high chance to be that franchise player?  If not, shore up the offensive line and defense and go with Rudolph or Haskins
I might make sense to wait on a QB, but they will need one soon unless Haskins shows something he never has. Rudolph is not good enough to be a starter 

 
I might make sense to wait on a QB, but they will need one soon unless Haskins shows something he never has. Rudolph is not good enough to be a starter 
Yeah, there is an argument to be made that most teams have the most success when they have a great QB on a rookie contract before the other talented players are squeezed out.

It doesn't appear like there's incredible QB talent coming out in 2022 or 2023 (at least so far) so it might make the most sense to build back up the offensive line and strengthen the defense before adding our new QB for the future in the 1st. There's plenty of reason to think this team could turn around relatively quickly in the next few years. 

  • The #1 question is QB, but in the short term there have been teams that had success with ok QBs that just went on good streaks (Flacco, Eli, Dilfer, and Rex Grossman all made or won Super Bowls) as long as they have very good defenses.
  • Our Defense is decimated with injuries, but it will get healthy again in the offseason and we could short up the secondary using the cap space we finally have starting next year. Watt and Highsmith look like the real deal, we'll need more depth though. A healthy Cam, Tyson, and Stephon are wrecking balls. 
  • O-line: If Moore, Green, and Dotson can keep improving and become average or above average, that's an improvement over where we're at now. We can add a new T and OG in the draft or FA to keep improving. Brandon Scherff could immediately boost our O-line significantly (at a large cost to our Cap). 
  • Secondary: We're going to need an infusion of talent next year when Haden and Edmunds are gone. Sutton and Fitzpatrick will be starters, but around them is TBD. Norwood and Pierre have been ok, and show flashes, but this would be a good spot to add in FA or draft... we just typically suck at drafting here the last handful of years. 
  • Linebacker: Our OLBs are great, just need depth. ILB might be set if Bush can start playing instinctually and not overrunning plays. He too often gets swept along and is misaligned to stop the run, but he did have a nice sack last week. Hopefully Buddy Johnson develops. 
  • WRs: We'll have Diontae and Claypool next year, but we definitely need to reinvigorate this position. The WRs never seem to be open by more than half a step. I think this is probably scheme more than talent, but we'll need to add more players here. I'd assume 1-2 draft picks next year, but we only have 5-6 picks, so we'll see. 
Because our cap space situation is going to vastly improve within the next 2 years, it should be possible to "retool" as opposed to "rebuild", but that depends on the Steelers making the right choices in FA and the right picks in the draft.

 

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