2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (4 Viewers)

[steelers1080]

Well, that wasn't something I expected.

Scuttlebutt today was that they were sniffing around Honey Badger.  Didn't see Jack and the Steelers being mentioned anywhere the past few days other than here.
 

Myles Jack cut by Jacksonville, he didn't play great last year but is young (26, turning 27 in Sept) and was playing on a really bad team. Might still be possible to revive him but depends on cost. Could be a much cheaper/younger alternative to Wagner. If we could cut Schobert and sign Jack for less, that would be solid probably. 

But, here was correct!

A bit surprised his deal is only $8 mil per year, but that's nice because that means he costs $5 million less than Schobert was going to cost (and $2 million less after his dead cap assuming he's cut). I think Schobert is gone very soon after Jack is signed. 

Surprise that it wasn’t after the draft?

Not too surprised. I'm surprised him and Schobert lasted this long tbh. Banner had the highest cap hit on offense, 0 chance that lasted. Right now we only have 1 backup OT, Haeg, so I'd expect us to draft someone or sign someone later after other teams are making cuts. 

We're still in need of CB and S help, and this isn't a super strong Safety class. At this point I think our draft ends up being BPA on defense, then WR, then BPA on defense. Probably D-line in the 1st and secondary in the 3rd. 

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Rattling around ideas in my head, cuz....why not?

Considering the money they've spent so far this week in FA...
- Brought in a cheap "lottery ticket" option at QB
- Retooled/acquired younger, healthier depth on the interior of the OL
- Addressed CB in case they aren't willing to meet the asks for their own outgoing FAs
- Landed a clear upgrade to Schobert at ILB.
- Re-upped Chuks at RT for multiple years (albeit, with an expensive "out" after a year if they wanted to use it)

....that's a pretty clear indicator to me that they're looking at going heavy on defense in this draft, particularly early:

Anyone with eyes knows they need to get younger, badly, on the DL.  2021 made it painfully obvious they can't go into a year with only 35-year-old Alualu capable of stopping the run at nose.  If I had to wager as of today, I'd say they're zeroing in on those types for rounds 1 and 2 now, whether folks like it or not.   Looking pretty likely they may still need a CB too, so that'll prolly be in play also.

 

[steelers1080]

Interesting that all of the Steelers contracts have been for 2-3 years, most of which have an out after 1-2 years with minimal dead cap. I wonder if Colbert is leaving the next GM with options, or if it's mostly shorter deals to see how these players pan out before larger extensions. Reduces downside risk, but also doesn't lock in players that outperform for longer periods of time. Though, more players have been willing to force early extensions if they overperform, maybe that was a factor too. 

 

[5-ish Finkle]

 I think Schobert is gone very soon after Jack is signed. 

Schobert's a dead man walkin'.

I think the only reason he and Banner weren't cut outright the moment the NFL calendar ticked over was to make sure they had replacements in hand first.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

We're still in need of CB and S help, and this isn't a super strong Safety class. 

My gut tells me that they're more than willing to let the market tell Edmunds he isn't worth that much, and then they'll happily offer him something slightly over that to bring him back. 

I'm not a fan, but the team seems to like him.  Have heard the yinzer talking heads flapping gums more than once that "the coaches like how he works with Minkah."   Okaaaaay.

They may be taking the same tactic with Witherspoon. I also think they're probably okay with just drafting a CB early if he walks.  It's a pretty good group this year.

 

[moondawg]

Schobert's a dead man walkin'.

I think the only reason he and Banner weren't cut outright the moment the NFL calendar ticked over was to make sure they had replacements in hand first.

He has been released.  Link says it saves 9.7M .

https://theredzone.org/Blog-Description/EntryId/21691/Steelers-release-MLB-Joe-Schobert

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Is it possible they want Daniels at Center? He started there in college me some for the Bears.

or maybe as a backup plan if Green fails again

That is Cole

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Yeah, I think they're figuring Cole's the C. 

Daniels at one of the G spots.  Banner/Green fight for the other one.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Yeah, I think they're figuring Cole's the C. 

Daniels at one of the G spots.  Banner/Green fight for the other one.

I think they still want Green at C, but Cole is a backup option. Dotson is the clear opposite G from Daniels

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Jack was a truly awful grade from last year. Was he a bad fit in their scheme?

 

[steelers1080]

Jack was a truly awful grade from last year. Was he a bad fit in their scheme?

Urban was using him to play 3 separate roles last year in Base, Nickel, and Dime, so that probably didn't help him be able to react instinctually. Hopefully the Steelers can keep him focused and use him in a more similar role to his previous years. He still had a fair amount of tackles last year, but not many people play great in the middle of a dumpster fire. 

I think he should fit our scheme better than Schobert, but we'll need better D-line play. If we don't draft a D-lineman early and either of Alualu or Tuitt aren't back to full health, we're in trouble. Both Jack and Bush will struggle to get off blocks against O-linemen if they're able to move to the 2nd level, as does almost every ILB. 

Also, Jack & Bush sound like an 80's action movie Duo, like Tango & Cash. 

 

[steelers1080]

Rumored that Tomlin & company had dinner with Jordan Davis and Nakobe Dean before the Georgia Pro-Day, almost always happens with their 1st round picks. I have wanted Davis for a long time now, but after his Combine I'm pretty convinced he won't make it to 20. 

https://steelersdepot.com/2022/03/despite-interest-in-georgias-jordan-davis-mike-tomlin-doubts-hell-be-a-steeler-i-think-he-may-have-hugged-roger-goodell-by-then/

Tomlin sounded like he's a fan of Davis, but also expects him to be gone. 

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I think they still want Green at C, but Cole is a backup option. Dotson is the clear opposite G from Daniels

I agree with you that they still want Green at C....but I don't know if he'll be ready for it. 

I won't be shocked if Cole winds up starting at C, at least early, and they'd at least have Green fight for time at G too (and yes, it'd be likely that Dotson would beat him out there as well. Meant Dotson, typed Banner.  Mea culpa.)

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I think he should fit our scheme better than Schobert

Joe 'the-show' was always a 'weak' tackler who didn't seem a great fit.  Myles Jack should be amazing in Pittsburgh.

Not sure what to expect of Trubisky but he was the 'best' FA QB option IMHO.  Have to expect the OC will be installing RPOs and roll-boots, lots of movement.  Trubisky will not be the last move Pittsburgh makes at QB.

Still believe that QB is a possibility in the first round.

Saw this and think Steeler fans would be interested since Tomlin was at the Georgia workout.  Check out the linked vid.  

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Anthony Treash@PFF_Anthony

Anthony Treash on Twitter: "Jason Poe at Georgia’s Pro Day today (w/ guard percentile historically):

• 6’1”, 300
  
• 34 bench (92nd percentile)
  
• 4.89 40 (99th)
  
• 1.72 10 (90th)
  
• 31.5 vertical (89th)
  
• 9’3” broad (92nd)
  

Apparently was asked to workout at FB, too." / Twitter

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Mike Renner@PFF_Mike

Folks the best pulling guard in college football plays at Mercer Jason Poe is one #funtowatch offensive lineman

LINK video

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Joe 'the-show' was always a 'weak' tackler who didn't seem a great fit.  Myles Jack should be amazing in Pittsburgh.

Not sure what to expect of Trubisky but he was the 'best' FA QB option IMHO.  Have to expect the OC will be installing RPOs and roll-boots, lots of movement.  Trubisky will not be the last move Pittsburgh makes at QB.

Still believe that QB is a possibility in the first round.

Saw this and think Steeler fans would be interested since Tomlin was at the Georgia workout.  Check out the linked vid.  

------------

Anthony Treash@PFF_Anthony

Anthony Treash on Twitter: "Jason Poe at Georgia’s Pro Day today (w/ guard percentile historically):

• 6’1”, 300
  
• 34 bench (92nd percentile)
  
• 4.89 40 (99th)
  
• 1.72 10 (90th)
  
• 31.5 vertical (89th)
  
• 9’3” broad (92nd)
  

Apparently was asked to workout at FB, too." / Twitter

-------------

Mike Renner@PFF_Mike

Folks the best pulling guard in college football plays at Mercer Jason Poe is one #funtowatch offensive lineman

LINK video

He played D2 and then didn't play for 2 years. At Mercer he played less than 500 snaps. He is an interesting athlete, but a 6th round pick seems as high as reasonable for his degree of project.

 

[steelers1080]

Steelers draft needs before FA: IOL, WR, QB, NT/DE, S, OT, CB, ILB, OLB, RB. 

Steelers signings so far: IOL, IOL, CB, CB, ILB, QB, OT, DT

The only positions left unaddressed so far: WR, S, OLB, RB. OLB and RB are depth, the starters are already in place. 

This signings don't prohibit us from hitting those positions again during the draft, but we at least have pieces in place if the value isn't there in the draft. I would still expect us to sign a safety in FA and possibly a WR as well (Juju, fingers crossed). 

Based on the limited pro-day info so far, my hopeful mock is:

1. Jordan Davis
   
2. George Pickens
   
3. Nick Cross
   

Hitting DT/WR/S in the first 3 rounds. 

 

[moondawg]

I think they still want Green at C, but Cole is a backup option. Dotson is the clear opposite G from Daniels

I think Cole will be the C, Daniels the RG, and Dotson and Green fight it out for LG.

 

[steelers1080]

I think Cole will be the C, Daniels the RG, and Dotson and Green fight it out for LG.

Kendrick Green would be one of the shortest, lightest guards in the NFL, with lower than average arm length for the position.

He did play guard in college, but that won't necessarily translate to the NFL. I don't think he's in play for guard unless there are major injuries to our guard position and it's a case of necessity. I think he competes with Cole for Center, and that Cole has more ability to flex, so if Dotson or Daniels got hurt, I think Cole would shift from Center and Green would play center. 

 

[steelers1080]

Watson allegedly not going to the Browns. Now they might have to roll with him at QB after publicly saying they want an "adult" at the QB position. This could be interesting. I hope they're forced to trade for Jimmy G and that Baker leaves the division. I know a lot of people don't think highly of him, but I think he could still have a lot of success in the NFL. 

 

[steelers1080]

Steelers release Joe Schobert. I wonder if they were trying to drum up a trade and that was the reason for the delay, or maybe they were trying to get him to accept a pay cut. If we could have him back at half his price, I'd have been ok with him as the 3rd ILB in the rotation. 

 

[menobrown]

Witherspoon is back on a 2 year deal

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Just need to re-sign Edmonds or get Honey Badger and then a quality backup OLB and we are set to draft BPA all over the board.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Kendrick Green would be one of the shortest, lightest guards in the NFL, with lower than average arm length for the position.

He did play guard in college, but that won't necessarily translate to the NFL. I don't think he's in play for guard unless there are major injuries to our guard position and it's a case of necessity. I think he competes with Cole for Center, and that Cole has more ability to flex, so if Dotson or Daniels got hurt, I think Cole would shift from Center and Green would play center. 

They drafted Green as a Center and really liked him.  So they are going to give him every chance to succeed there I think. Cole and Daniels are great versatile pieces that will allow the team to forge a quality O-line though with depth.

 

[steelers1080]

Witherspoon is back on a 2 year deal

Another 2 year deal. This team is going to have a ton of holes in 3 years, but also a lot of flexibility. 

Just need to re-sign Edmonds or get Honey Badger and then a quality backup OLB and we are set to draft BPA all over the board.

I would be over the moon if they got Mathieu. I wanted him out of college and then after his deal expired the first time, maybe we'll finally make the move we should have made in 2013. We got Markus Wheaton in the 3rd instead of Mathieu, it would have required a trade-up, but still...

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I would be over the moon if they got Mathieu. I wanted him out of college and then after his deal expired the first time, maybe we'll finally make the move we should have made in 2013. We got Markus Wheaton in the 3rd instead of Mathieu, it would have required a trade-up, but still...

Honey Badger would be a slam dunk for them, but is the money even there for that at this point?  Sure, the market for S has been soft so far....but I can't imagine he's not going to get paid. 

Franchise tag for S is, like, right around 13 million I think?  He was getting more than that annually on his last 3-year deal with KC, and he's still under 30.  Would guess it'd take similar money to land him now.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

They drafted Green as a Center and really liked him.  So they are going to give him every chance to succeed there I think.

I agree with that line of thinking, and I liked him as a C convert coming out last year too, but after seeing him for a year I just don't think he's going to be ready to handle it yet.  Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Long-term he could still pull it off and be viable.  I am just not expecting a single offseason working with Pouncey to be enough.  Dude needs to get stronger.  He got taken advantage last year a LOT.  Hopefully he's been on a strength program too.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I agree with that line of thinking, and I liked him as a C convert coming out last year too, but after seeing him for a year I just don't think he's going to be ready to handle it yet.  Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Long-term he could still pull it off and be viable.  I am just not expecting a single offseason working with Pouncey to be enough.  Dude needs to get stronger.  He got taken advantage last year a LOT.  Hopefully he's been on a strength program too.

Do you think it was because he wasn't strong enough, or because he was not reacting fast enough after the snap?  I think it is the latter and experience will help him there.

 

[JoeSteeler]

Fletcher Cox cut 

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Do you think it was because he wasn't strong enough, or because he was not reacting fast enough after the snap?  I think it is the latter and experience will help him there.

Could be some of both, honestly.

Either way, we saw him losing at the POA with uncomfortable frequency.  That can't continue if he wants to be an asset.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Do you think it was because he wasn't strong enough, or because he was not reacting fast enough after the snap?  I think it is the latter and experience will help him there.

He was just not getting down after snapping. This can be fixed 

 

[steelers1080]

Do you think it was because he wasn't strong enough, or because he was not reacting fast enough after the snap?  I think it is the latter and experience will help him there.

Everything I read from people that know more about Center play have written that it's because of his lack of experience and poor form. Things that could improve over time. He is apparently ridiculously strong, and has all the traits to be a great center (though short-ish arms), but just needs to improve his form.

Linderbaum is actually smaller in almost every way than Green, but he's been a center for longer and has perfected his craft. There's still hope that Green can improve, but I'd much rather him have that opportunity on the practice field going against Heyward than going against BJ Hill and Michael Pierce. Cole's contract (really all the contracts so far this year) is structured so that we can get out after 1-2 years with minimal impact, or just keep him as a flexible IOL backup, so if Green drastically improves it's a win-win. 

 

[steelers1080]

Honey Badger would be a slam dunk for them, but is the money even there for that at this point?  Sure, the market for S has been soft so far....but I can't imagine he's not going to get paid. 

Franchise tag for S is, like, right around 13 million I think?  He was getting more than that annually on his last 3-year deal with KC, and he's still under 30.  Would guess it'd take similar money to land him now.

We have plenty of available money, it would just potentially require restructures or signing Minkah to an extension.

Minkah is getting $10.6 million, Marcus Williams is listed as being better than Minkah per PFF metrics, but I would assume that Minkah wants to have a higher contract when he signs. Marcus' average yearly salary is $14 million. If I was the Steelers I would sign Minkah to a 4 year extension that comes out to ~$72 million over 5 years. His contract is currently fully guaranteed, so I'd probably have $30 million in guaranteed money and structure it something like $20 mil signing bonus and guarantee 2023 base. Base Salaries: Year 1 - $2 mil, Year 2 - $10 mil, Year 3 - $10 mil, Year 4 - $14 mil, Year 5 - $16 mil. That spreads the $20 mil across the 5 years and makes his year 1 cap hit (aka this year) go down by $4.6 mil. He'd get to be the highest paid, and we have an out after 3 years if necessary, with an $8 mil dead cap hit in year 4. 

We could also extend Sutton and get a slight reduction from his $5 mil owed this year, wouldn't be a terrible idea if they want him longer term since his contract expires after 2022. Same with Bos. 

TJ Watt has a $24 mil base salary this year, we could convert $20 mil of that to a signing bonus and reduce the cap hit to $5 mil per year, freeing up $15 mil this year. Cam Heyward has a $6.5 mil base salary, we could probably get ~$4 mil savings there by changing it to a signing bonus, but idk that it's worth it. Tuitt is owed $13.5 mil with $9 mil base, they could extend him and reduce his cap hit too. 

They could probably free up over $30 million if they really had to, but there is no reason to do that for now. They still have a good bit of cap space available because most of the contracts they signed so far are low dollar amounts or have most of their hit starting next year. 

I'm hoping we extend Minkah, Diontae, Sutton, and Bos this offseason.

 

[steelers1080]

David Ojabo went down at his Pro-Day clutching his leg. If it's serious, ACL tear or something of the like, and he falls out of the 1st round, do the Steelers make a play in the 2nd?

We need OLB depth and would probably be drafting OLB high next year, assuming the Steelers won't want 2 OLBs getting huge contracts. He probably wouldn't contribute this year (if ACL), but was projected as a possible top 15 talent. Could be a value at the position, or could be a lot of extra risk for a player seen as a potential project with athletic traits. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

JuJu to Chiefs.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Well, that bumps up wide receiver on the list of priorities a bit.

 

[JoeSteeler]

Added Gunner Olszewski on a 2-year deal/ $4 million

Ray-Ray Replacement 

love it

 

[steelers1080]

Juju to Chiefs and Watson to Browns on the same day. Not a great day for the Steelers. 

 

[steelers1080]

Ben got suspended 6 games for alleged assault, reduced to 4. Any chance Watson gets 4 games per assault? So... 88 games?

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Honey Badger would be a slam dunk for them, but is the money even there for that at this point?  Sure, the market for S has been soft so far....but I can't imagine he's not going to get paid. 

Franchise tag for S is, like, right around 13 million I think?  He was getting more than that annually on his last 3-year deal with KC, and he's still under 30.  Would guess it'd take similar money to land him now.

He isn't a strong safety. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

OT or DT in first

George Pickens in second

 

[5-ish Finkle]

He isn't a strong safety. 

Pretty sure he has been classified a SS since the year he played for Houston(assume that goes by snap count, but its an assumption).

He lines up all over the place, including slot cb and linebacker in nickel.  I don't have the safety snap counts broken down in front of me, but Chiefs have certainly been listing him as a strong safety for three years it looks like. 

No idea if he could legitimately try to claim that he is a different position because of snap counts to attempt to leverage negotiations.  He still plays most of his snaps at safety.

It really doesn't matter, because the Steelers probably aren't going to sign him no matter how much I might like them too.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

James Washington to Cowboys. 

 

[crushedspirit]

This division just got a little bit tougher for the Steelers

 

[Godsbrother]

Juju to Chiefs and Watson to Browns on the same day. Not a great day for the Steelers. 

I may come to regret it but I love the Watson to Browns trade right now.
 

Barring another trade the Browns next #1 pick won’t happen until 2025 and they guaranteed $230 million to a QB facing a possible lengthily suspension, is unlikable and who will be an obvious distraction. 
 

The Browns better win a couple Super Bowls with this guy or this will be viewed as a disastrous trade.

 

[steelers1080]

I may come to regret it but I love the Watson to Browns trade right now.
Barring another trade the Browns next #1 pick won’t happen until 2025 and they guaranteed $230 million to a QB facing a possible lengthily suspension, is unlikable and who will be an obvious distraction. 
The Browns better win a couple Super Bowls with this guy or this will be viewed as a disastrous trade.

Watson's cap hit is $10 million in year 1, meaning that $220 million plays out over years 2 - 5, that's going to be a lot for Cleveland to take on and still keep/sign other talented players. 

Also, if the Browns win a single Super Bowl this trade will have been a massive success for them... They're had plenty of early 1st round picks in the past that lead to zilch. 

 

[JoeSteeler]

I may come to regret it but I love the Watson to Browns trade right now.
 

Barring another trade the Browns next #1 pick won’t happen until 2025 and they guaranteed $230 million to a QB facing a possible lengthily suspension, is unlikable and who will be an obvious distraction. 
 

The Browns better win a couple Super Bowls with this guy or this will be viewed as a disastrous trade.

With you in this 

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

I may come to regret it but I love the Watson to Browns trade right now.
 

Barring another trade the Browns next #1 pick won’t happen until 2025 and they guaranteed $230 million to a QB facing a possible lengthily suspension, is unlikable and who will be an obvious distraction. 
 

The Browns better win a couple Super Bowls with this guy or this will be viewed as a disastrous trade.

Don't forget he has terrible knees. If he gets through this contract without another ACL tear, I will be shocked. He certainly has at least early OA already. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Steelers spending, BY-FAR the least on offense and BY-FAR the most on defense.

This strategy goes counter to the rest of the league.

Interesting.

-----------------

Positional Spending

 

[Godsbrother]

Steelers spending, BY-FAR the least on offense and BY-FAR the most on defense.

This strategy goes counter to the rest of the league.

Interesting.

-----------------

Positional Spending

This is interesting.  I’m not sure it is by design but more the case of being so young on offense and the veterans (and few stars on the team) are all on defense

 

[-OZ-]

This is interesting.  I’m not sure it is by design but more the case of being so young on offense and the veterans (and few stars on the team) are all on defense

Makes sense, but they did just sign a QB to start. And seem to have gone cheap as they reasonably could there. 
i like that they’re building differently than the others. If they’re successful maybe others copy and the current trend of paying top dollar for QB at the expense elsewhere comes back down a bit. It’s not money ball but somewhat similar.