2024-25 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the team does” sad Heat fan says to giant pile of cocaine (34 Viewers)

[Juxtatarot]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

 

[Yo Mama]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I think that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t want an MLE - those are required to be 3-year deals. I’m guessing he’ll just want to sign a 1-year deal at this point and try to get a better deal next year when more teams will have room to spend.

 

[the moops]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I think that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t want an MLE - those are required to be 3-year deals. I’m guessing he’ll just want to sign a 1-year deal at this point and try to get a better deal next year when more teams will have room to spend.

Are you sure MLE deals have to be 3 years? I thought it was 3 years max

 

[thecatch]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I think that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t want an MLE - those are required to be 3-year deals. I’m guessing he’ll just want to sign a 1-year deal at this point and try to get a better deal next year when more teams will have room to spend.

Are you sure MLE deals have to be 3 years? I thought it was 3 years max

According to the CBA FAQ, they can be "up to" 4 years. They definitely don't have to be 3 year deals. The Kings signed Monk to a two year MLE a couple of years ago.

Think Yo Mama might be confusing MLE with sign and trades. Sign and trade deals have to be 3 or 4 years.

 

[identikit]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I think that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t want an MLE - those are required to be 3-year deals. I’m guessing he’ll just want to sign a 1-year deal at this point and try to get a better deal next year when more teams will have room to spend.

Are you sure MLE deals have to be 3 years? I thought it was 3 years max

According to the Google, MLE deals can be up to 4 years

 

[Long Ball Larry]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I think that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t want an MLE - those are required to be 3-year deals. I’m guessing he’ll just want to sign a 1-year deal at this point and try to get a better deal next year when more teams will have room to spend.

Are you sure MLE deals have to be 3 years? I thought it was 3 years max

According to the CBA FAQ, they can be "up to" 4 years. They definitely don't have to be 3 year deals. The Kings signed Monk to a two year MLE a couple of years ago.

Think Yo Mama might be confusing MLE with sign and trades. Sign and trade deals have to be 3 or 4 years.

Agree with this. Melton just got the MLE for one year.

 

[Yo Mama]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I think that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t want an MLE - those are required to be 3-year deals. I’m guessing he’ll just want to sign a 1-year deal at this point and try to get a better deal next year when more teams will have room to spend.

Are you sure MLE deals have to be 3 years? I thought it was 3 years max

According to the CBA FAQ, they can be "up to" 4 years. They definitely don't have to be 3 year deals. The Kings signed Monk to a two year MLE a couple of years ago.

Think Yo Mama might be confusing MLE with sign and trades. Sign and trade deals have to be 3 or 4 years.

You’re right. I got mixed up with S&T.

 

[the moops]

Hield to Warriors for a 2 year 18 million deal. No idea how the math works on this though for Golden State only had 7.3 million left from the Klay exception.

 

[Major]

I’d definitely rather have him at the minimum instead of Cam frickin Reddish.

I don't love all in one metrics but when trying to compare guys, I find these DARKO charts to be pretty slick. Added a couple other guys that have been talked about on this last page.

https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO// Click on "historical career trajectory"

https://imgur.com/a/imieSWJ

I forgot about Darko. I'm sure MSU tries as well. What a historic bust in a can't miss draft. Makes you wonder how different their history would have been if they hit on Wade, Bosh, etc.

Melo swears darko was really good though in workouts they had together. Just never put it all together

Yeah, and Packers fans heard how good Tony Mandarich was in pre draft workouts too. Darko is the "Incredible Bulk" of the NBA. Among the biggest draft busts in league history, made even more painful by the 3-4 time champion taken at #1 in front of them and the Hall of Fame talent taken immediately after their selection.

1989 NFL Draft
1- Troy Aikman QB (Dallas)
2- Tony Mandarich OL (Green Bay)
3- Barry Sanders RB (Detroit)
4- Derrick Thomas OLB (Kansas City)
5- Deion Sanders CB (Atlanta)

2003 NBA Draft
1- LeBron James SF (Cleveland)
2- Darko Milicic C (Detroit)
3- Carmelo Anthony SF (Denver)
4- Chris Bosh PF (Toronto)
5- Dwayne Wade SG (Miami)

Spot on analogy

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Hield to Warriors for a 2 year 18 million deal. No idea how the math works on this though for Golden State only had 7.3 million left from the Klay exception.

A 2031 second round pick? I thought salary had to move?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Hield to Warriors for a 2 year 18 million deal. No idea how the math works on this though for Golden State only had 7.3 million left from the Klay exception.

A 2031 second round pick? I thought salary had to move?

He is going into part of the trade exception generated by the Klay Thompson sign and trade. It’s also part of a five team trade

 

[Frostillicus]

I’d definitely rather have him at the minimum instead of Cam frickin Reddish.

I don't love all in one metrics but when trying to compare guys, I find these DARKO charts to be pretty slick. Added a couple other guys that have been talked about on this last page.

https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO// Click on "historical career trajectory"

https://imgur.com/a/imieSWJ

This thing crashes everytime I try to include a link to the graph, but for fun I put in Ant, Luka, SGA, Booker, and Brunson and at this point in Ant's career he has a higher DARKO DPM than all of them. I have no idea what that is, but it seems good.

 

[Jayrod]

I’d definitely rather have him at the minimum instead of Cam frickin Reddish.

I don't love all in one metrics but when trying to compare guys, I find these DARKO charts to be pretty slick. Added a couple other guys that have been talked about on this last page.

https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO// Click on "historical career trajectory"

https://imgur.com/a/imieSWJ

This thing crashes everytime I try to include a link to the graph, but for fun I put in Ant, Luka, SGA, Booker, and Brunson and at this point in Ant's career he has a higher DARKO DPM than all of them. I have no idea what that is, but it seems good.

I did LeBron, Kobe, Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Butler.

Tatum's path was above Kobe's and below LeBron with Brown and Butler's kind of parallel just under Kobe.

 

[Major]

I’d definitely rather have him at the minimum instead of Cam frickin Reddish.

I don't love all in one metrics but when trying to compare guys, I find these DARKO charts to be pretty slick. Added a couple other guys that have been talked about on this last page.

https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO// Click on "historical career trajectory"

https://imgur.com/a/imieSWJ

This thing crashes everytime I try to include a link to the graph, but for fun I put in Ant, Luka, SGA, Booker, and Brunson and at this point in Ant's career he has a higher DARKO DPM than all of them. I have no idea what that is, but it seems good.

I did LeBron, Kobe, Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Butler.

Tatum's path was above Kobe's and below LeBron with Brown and Butler's kind of parallel just under Kobe.

I put in Tatum's path during crunch time and it was far below Kobe and Lebron but in line with Harden just below George

 

[trader jake]

I’m guessing he’ll just want to sign a 1-year deal at this point and try to get a better deal next year when more teams will have room to spend.

"Pre-agency" ...get to the place that can, and will, pay you the money when free agency hits. Saw Pascal Siakam and a few others do it.

DeRozen, despite his flaws, deserves more dollars this season than he'll end up getting paid. Gotta blame him and/or his agent for not getting out of Chicago last season if the Bulls weren't going to pay him.

 

[Anarchy99]

DeRozan has already made $257M in salary over his career. He can start a GoFundMe page if he can’t land a high dollar new deal somewhere.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I forgot about Darko. I'm sure MSU tries as well. What a historic bust in a can't miss draft. Makes you wonder how different their history would have been if they hit on Wade, Bosh, etc.

The alternate history possibilities are pretty interesting.

Things didn’t go badly for the Pistons. They won the title Darko’s rookie year after trading for Rasheed Wallace at the deadline. If they make a better draft pick, maybe they don’t make that trade. It’s possible the horrible choice worked out for the best… or maybe they ruined a potential dynasty.

IIRC Carmelo was regarded as a cut above Wade or Bosh at the time of the draft. He wouldn’t have been a great fit in Detroit. I think he could’ve done really well with that group as a more modern small ball 4, but that would not have happened with Larry Brown coaching. He was all about defense and didn’t like playing rookies. Maybe that experience would’ve been good for Melo in the long run, but I don’t know that it would’ve been good for the 03-04 Pistons.

Wade or Bosh would’ve fit the culture much better IMO. Bosh slots in nicely at the 4 and gives the Pistons dynasty potential, but also probably means no Rasheed trade.

Wade has a less obvious lineup fit with Billups and Hamilton but it would’ve been a good problem to have. The dream scenario is probably one where they get Wade and still deal for Sheed.

The knock-on effects around the league would be interesting. If the Pistons don’t win in 03-04, who does? They beat the Lakers in the finals… does another ring salvage the Shaq/Kobe relationship? If Wade isn’t in Miami, does Shaq still go there? Does LeBron? If Bosh gets a ring or two in Detroit, does he leave in free agency?

And what about Darko? Was he a guaranteed bust, or did being left to rot on a contender’s bench mess him up?

So many fun questions.

 

[GOB]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

 

[Capella]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

 

[the moops]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

I don't think it necessarily that. Get the young guys locked up and you can always move them.

 

[GOB]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

 

[thecatch]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

 

[Capella]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Nothing else they can do. He’s a very good player and still young. I’m not complaining, I’m excited to see where it goes.

 

[Capella]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

x.com

x.com

I like this guy’s account and he sums it up better than me. I think there is all-nba upside but he’s not going to be a top-5 player or anything.

 

[GOB]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

Orlando did this to Shaq and Dwight Howard.

It didn't go well.

 

[msudaisy26]

I forgot about Darko. I'm sure MSU tries as well. What a historic bust in a can't miss draft. Makes you wonder how different their history would have been if they hit on Wade, Bosh, etc.

The alternate history possibilities are pretty interesting.

Things didn’t go badly for the Pistons. They won the title Darko’s rookie year after trading for Rasheed Wallace at the deadline. If they make a better draft pick, maybe they don’t make that trade. It’s possible the horrible choice worked out for the best… or maybe they ruined a potential dynasty.

IIRC Carmelo was regarded as a cut above Wade or Bosh at the time of the draft. He wouldn’t have been a great fit in Detroit. I think he could’ve done really well with that group as a more modern small ball 4, but that would not have happened with Larry Brown coaching. He was all about defense and didn’t like playing rookies. Maybe that experience would’ve been good for Melo in the long run, but I don’t know that it would’ve been good for the 03-04 Pistons.

Wade or Bosh would’ve fit the culture much better IMO. Bosh slots in nicely at the 4 and gives the Pistons dynasty potential, but also probably means no Rasheed trade.

Wade has a less obvious lineup fit with Billups and Hamilton but it would’ve been a good problem to have. The dream scenario is probably one where they get Wade and still deal for Sheed.

The knock-on effects around the league would be interesting. If the Pistons don’t win in 03-04, who does? They beat the Lakers in the finals… does another ring salvage the Shaq/Kobe relationship? If Wade isn’t in Miami, does Shaq still go there? Does LeBron? If Bosh gets a ring or two in Detroit, does he leave in free agency?

And what about Darko? Was he a guaranteed bust, or did being left to rot on a contender’s bench mess him up?

So many fun questions.

Joe Dumars was on record saying he was picking Wade if they didn't take Darko. He said he wasn't going to send Tayshaun to the bench.

 

[msudaisy26]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

Orlando did this to Shaq and Dwight Howard.

It didn't go well.

They went cheap on Tim Duncan when he was a free agent as well or they would have had him as well.

 

[Capella]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

Orlando did this to Shaq and Dwight Howard.

It didn't go well.

Doing that to Shaq cost them a dynasty. Absolute idiots.

 

[thecatch]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

Orlando did this to Shaq and Dwight Howard.

It didn't go well.

Yeah, fair enough. I dont think guys like Wagner or Barnes are max players, particularly if their deals are tied to a percentage of the cap (so won’t look better as cap rises). But I’ve been wildly wrong before.

 

[Jayrod]

RUN IT BACK!!!!

Looks like Brad took my advice.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

Orlando did this to Shaq and Dwight Howard.

It didn't go well.

Yeah, fair enough. I dont think guys like Wagner or Barnes are max players, particularly if their deals are tied to a percentage of the cap (so won’t look better as cap rises). But I’ve been wildly wrong before.

They do get slightly better if the cap rises 10% each year, as their raises are locked in as 8 percent of the first year. I had thought the same as you before, but Nate Duncan said what I just said the other day. It’s not a huge savings, but it’s a little bit. If the cap rises as expected, it will be 22.5% of the cap in the 5th year.

I do agree that it seems unnecessary to go all the way to the max. These small market teams seem to just feel like if they get an all-star level talent, they just have to pay them everything to make sure they keep them and preserve the asset. Franz really tests that theory though

 

[Yo Mama]

RUN IT BACK!!!!

Looks like Brad took my advice.

Unfortunately, so did Pelinka.

 

[Desert_Power]

RUN IT BACK!!!!

Looks like Brad took my advice.

Unfortunately, so did Pelinka.

You misspelled Lebron.

 

[thecatch]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I guess this might actually be a thing? I’m still guessing that Derozan is using the Kings as leverage to get a better deal from another team, maybe the Clippers.

 

[Major]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

Orlando did this to Shaq and Dwight Howard.

It didn't go well.

Doing that to Shaq cost them a dynasty. Absolute idiots.

Nick Anderson imo

 

[GOB]

Franz Wagner got that . Good for him, now fix that jumper

I love the Franzchise but man that is a big commitment to him. Magic basically saying this is their roster they can compete for a title with.

What's the alternative?

Obviously, omitting Paolo, Franz is the best player Orlando has gotten since Dwight or Lewis?

He's young and makes so many winning plays. Do I think he can be the 2nd best player on a championship team?

In the words of Tony Romo: I doooont knoooow Jim.

Do these deals always have to be max or nothing? Would Wagner really walk if they tried to shave $20-30 million off that number? I know that can backfire (like Gordon Hayward with the Jazz) but chipping even a bit off that number could have helped them a lot with tax/apron issues down the road when they hope to be contending. And I like Wagner well enough but he’s not probably not going to be an all nba type player at any point in his career.

Orlando did this to Shaq and Dwight Howard.

It didn't go well.

Doing that to Shaq cost them a dynasty. Absolute idiots.

Nick Anderson imo

Hey Y'all Don't Say That

I do not own this content!Scene from Step Brothers

youtu.be

 

[Juxtatarot]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I guess this might actually be a thing? I’m still guessing that Derozan is using the Kings as leverage to get a better deal from another team, maybe the Clippers.

I don’t think the other teams can practically clear the salary for him. I think he’ll be a King.

But, what do I know? I’m often wrong.

 

[Desert_Power]

Way too predictable.

 

[Desert_Power]

Oof. He was clearly going left on the winner too. What was the keeper watching?

Tough for the VinoTinto. At least they don't have to get slapped around by Argentina.

 

[thecatch]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I guess this might actually be a thing? I’m still guessing that Derozan is using the Kings as leverage to get a better deal from another team, maybe the Clippers.

I don’t think the other teams can practically clear the salary for him. I think he’ll be a King.

But, what do I know? I’m often wrong.

I might be able to make the case this will help the team but this is probably the Kings’ Plan D and I’m sure Derozan didn’t circle Sacramento as a destination early in the process.

 

[Desert_Power]

Oof. He was clearly going left on the winner too. What was the keeper watching?

Tough for the VinoTinto. At least they don't have to get slapped around by Argentina.

Wrong thread!

 

[Desert_Power]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I guess this might actually be a thing? I’m still guessing that Derozan is using the Kings as leverage to get a better deal from another team, maybe the Clippers.

I don’t think the other teams can practically clear the salary for him. I think he’ll be a King.

But, what do I know? I’m often wrong.

I might be able to make the case this will help the team but this is probably the Kings’ Plan D and I’m sure Derozan didn’t circle Sacramento as a destination early in the process.

It sucks that some players just don't fit in the modern game. Just let these guys sign on a minimum somewhere.

 

[Yo Mama]

RUN IT BACK!!!!

Looks like Brad took my advice.

Unfortunately, so did Pelinka.

You misspelled Lebron.

You kidding? LeBron told the front office he’d take less money if they found him some better teammates. He was less interested in running it back than he will be defending a fast break in a game in January.

 

[Juxtatarot]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I guess this might actually be a thing? I’m still guessing that Derozan is using the Kings as leverage to get a better deal from another team, maybe the Clippers.

I don’t think the other teams can practically clear the salary for him. I think he’ll be a King.

But, what do I know? I’m often wrong.

I might be able to make the case this will help the team but this is probably the Kings’ Plan D and I’m sure Derozan didn’t circle Sacramento as a destination early in the process.

The Bulls weren't DeRozan's first choice last time either.

As far as other Kings plans, I like this one better than trading a zillion picks and stuff for the ability to extend a max contract for Ingram or Markkanen.

 

[Desert_Power]

RUN IT BACK!!!!

Looks like Brad took my advice.

Unfortunately, so did Pelinka.

You misspelled Lebron.

You kidding? LeBron told the front office he’d take less money if they found him some better teammates. He was less interested in running it back than he will be defending a fast break in a game in January.

Yes. I’m kidding.

 

[GOB]

Looking ahead, it's crazy we are about to see Curry suit up for USA for the Olympics for the first time ever.

Glad Embiid and Kawhi continue to be indestructible and able to play around the calendar.

 

[thecatch]

@thecatch I'm curious what you think of these rumors/reports about the Kings' interest in DeMar DeRozan. Assuming DeMar gets more than the MLE, the Kings seem like the only destination that might work out financially and logistically in a sign-and-trade. It's been reported that the Bulls have interest in Huerter so he could be most of the salary coming back. The problem with this for the Bulls, though, is they are only $13 million under the tax threshold and Huerter makes almost $17 million. A third team would probably have to be involved to dump some salary on.

If the Kings are actually interested, I'm sure that it is a backup plan at best. They might need Huerter and/or his salary for some of the other bigger trades they're looking at. Derozan would be an upgrade but not a massive one, I don't think. I suspect the rumors are probably coming from Derozan's camp trying to create some leverage to get one of the teams he'd actually like to play for (Lakers or Heat?) to do a sign and trade instead of just offering some version of the MLE.

DeRozan is definitely out for the Lakers. The only way the Lakers could use the TPMLE (which DeRozan says he doesn’t want anyway) or to do a S&T is if they’re capped at the first apron, which would have required LeBron to take a $25m haircut. That’s out the window now.

I don't think Miami makes much sense either. I don't think they have players available at the salaries the Bulls would accept so another team would have to be added and heavily involved in taking on salary. I also question DeMar's fit with Jimmy.

I guess that begs the question why someone would pay more than the MLE for him if he doesn’t have any market.

In that scenario, he might just take a one year deal and try again next year. Maybe 3/$60 (maybe with a team option for the last year) would be preferred to lock him up. I get your point though.

I guess this might actually be a thing? I’m still guessing that Derozan is using the Kings as leverage to get a better deal from another team, maybe the Clippers.

I don’t think the other teams can practically clear the salary for him. I think he’ll be a King.

But, what do I know? I’m often wrong.

I might be able to make the case this will help the team but this is probably the Kings’ Plan D and I’m sure Derozan didn’t circle Sacramento as a destination early in the process.

The Bulls weren't DeRozan's first choice last time either.

As far as other Kings plans, I like this one better than trading a zillion picks and stuff for the ability to extend a max contract for Ingram or Markkanen.

I’d much rather give up all my draft picks for Markkanen if I had assurances he’d re-sign.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Caleb Martin to sixers

 

[Snotbubbles]

Caleb Martin to sixers

Starting 5 looking good. They still need a PF who can defend and rebound.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Caleb Martin to sixers

Starting 5 looking good. They still need a PF who can defend and rebound.

I guess he plays the 4? They are waiving B-ball Paul?!