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2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 Rags retires before camp. (55 Viewers)

BobbyLayne said:
IKR? Can’t remember another off-season that felt this way.

:oldunsure:

Like, I was calling for Patricia when JC was in year 3. But right off the bat you could sense things were off. Highly questionable draft picks, incredibly unprepared in all three phases of the game every single PS game and the first two weeks of the season, embarrassed and alienated his best defender…on and on. At no point in the three years did you feel like “lets give this guy a little time, maybe it gets better.” Naw man, he lost the team early and was in survival mode the entire time.

The JC hire never got anyone excited. We missed out on our first couple choices and settled. Took the guy who was probably about to be fired as Ravens OC. He was the opposite of Swartz in demeanor and philosophy, and he made Matthew more efficient. Y1 was a 11W success, Y2 a disastrous start that cost a bunch of people their jobs (but good second half), Y3 another disappointing WC road loss, Y4 the infamous “9-7 is not good enough.” Good person, leader of men, but probably was never going to get us to the next level.

Were we excited about Schwartz? IDK, I think everyone was still shell shocked from the MM era. Nowhere to go but up. Drafting Stafford was a great first pick but I don’t think anyone really thought he’d succeed, we had never had a franchise QB in the modern era. But the turnaround was more about the talent of Megatron, Statpadford and Suh than the HC. We were the fifth team to interview JS in four years, he was a DC for 8 years, wasn’t like we landed a hot candidate.

Anyway, it’s early. SFH and Holmes and MCDC have made a good first impression. We’ll need a few years before we can say they got it right. Sure feels like they’re doing things the right way so far.
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Hated the Patricia hire all the way. Getting credit for a defense that wasn't even good and that he didn't even run. It was Quinn's guy and that's all that mattered. Should have fired him when the rape thing came out before he even got started. Do you remember game 1 of the Patricia era? Home game agaisnt the Jets on MNF as Darnold became the youngest starting QB in NFL history. He threw a pick 6 on the first play. The Lions lost 48-17. Sums it up there. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Hated the Patricia hire all the way. Getting credit for a defense that wasn't even good and that he didn't even run. It was Quinn's guy and that's all that mattered. Should have fired him when the rape thing came out before he even got started. Do you remember game 1 of the Patricia era? Home game agaisnt the Jets on MNF as Darnold became the youngest starting QB in NFL history. He threw a pick 6 on the first play. The Lions lost 48-17. Sums it up there. 
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The Lions have had a lot of bad coaches over the years but Patricia might have been the worst one.

Supposed to be a defensive coach but the Lions had the worst defense in the NFL last season. Yeah that means you're fired.

It can only be better than that.

 
Biabreakable said:
The Lions have had a lot of bad coaches over the years but Patricia might have been the worst one.

Supposed to be a defensive coach but the Lions had the worst defense in the NFL last season. Yeah that means you're fired.

It can only be better than that.
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We are hearing stories now out of camp of Tavai who is down 20 pounds. Sounds like Patricia basically asked all of the LBs to put on as much weight as possible. We probably had the slowest defense in the NFL this millennium. 

 
would you wear this cap

It's a new era product, the Lions aren't behind it....but SRSLY?

Mini Camp report

I read or listen to reports all day, must have about 8 Lions centric podcasts I check on plus a few YT channels. I apologize for not sourcing this stuff below but it comes from a dozen different places and I'm just parroting what various local outlets have been reporting.

  • Swift has making LBs and DBs look silly on routes all week. That's great, then I remember how bad our LBs were at covering. But he should see 80+ targets this year and even still I could see Jamaal seeing another 40.
  • Perriman not really impressing anyone so far. Have heard/read a few good things about Tyrell Williams but neither seems to be asserting themselves as the WR1. Victor Bolden and Quintez Cephus have been shining. ARSB hasn't really stood out so far.
  • Hock is a problem every week and he's been beasting in drills. Dude needs to be see 120 targets. Average depth of target is gonna be low this year IMO when you think about screens, dump offs, TE usage, and the expected (but not happening) ascendency of ARSB as the Slot WR.
  • Penei Sewell is an angry young man. He seems goofy and light hearted when he's talking to the media but the dude is focused in  a scary when they get on the field. Seems to be picking things up working on the right side, which is where he played in h.s. but of course strictly LT in college.
  • Tyrel Crosby skipped voluntary OTAs but is there for mandatory minicamp. Lots of rumors of him being traded and he explained his absence last month as "The Covid year showed me I didn't need workouts. I basically didn't see my family during the season so I just decided to spend more time with them." Not sure if he should be labeled a malcontent but I could see why they want to move him (final year of his contract and he'll get another deal from someone.) Just a backup on this team but he's a critical piece bc of his versatility - swing tackle, can also play guard. I hope he's on the 55 man but I can understand why they would want to get something for him bc he's gone after this year. This is my life; I'm spending way too much time thinking about a backup offensive lineman.
  • 7-on-7 drills heavily favor the offense and nobody is wearing pads so other than LB/DB coverage there hasn't been a lot to report for the defense. Aaron Glenn is being universally praised as a great communicator. He's not as vocal as Running Backs Coach Duce Staley (who is the loudest guy on the field and involved in every aspect of the offense as Assistant HC) but the young guys seem to picking up a lot from him. This is a really outstanding staff assembled by Dan Campbell.
  • Consequently (bc of the nature of the drills they are running) there's not been much written or talked about with the LB corps. I think Brockers and the two rookies (Levi Onwuzurike is the listed starter but Alim McNeil will get significant snaps IMO) are going to get a good push, and we have a really good Edge situation. But Reeves-Maybin starting at the Will and the slimmed down Tavai, plus Romero Okwara and Trey Flowers now playing LB....man, I just don't think this is the right group to have when it comes to coverage. The good news is I think we'll be blitzing a LOT more and won't be putting our DBs in press man coverage nearly as often. Alex Anzalone will be in the rotation, he had some good moments with the Saints when healthy but again, not a coverage guy.
  • Tracey Walker is having a good camp, Will Harris is looking terrible, haven't heard/seen anything on Marlowe. Safety is definitely a concern. Okudah missed practice yesterday, no reason given. Big year for him. They have four decent cover corners rn but he has to step up and start playing like a #3 pick. We are definitely stronger at CB than S going in.
  • Consistent theme to OTAs and minicamp is to go out of their way in press conferences and on the practice field to elevate backups. Campbell spends a lot of time talking about the backup QB, his backup RB, the WR4/WR5/WR6, et al. Sort of fits the overall motif of the cultural shift - they're very collaborative in their approach as a staff, and they're trying to build a cohesive team. That will be more of a challenge when the losses start piling up but I like what I am seeing so far.
They're having fun as they go about their business, lot of trash talking between units, but there's an intensity now that was lacking in voluntary OTAs. Lot of Lions alumni around the facility this week and they were talking about how in the previous era if you didn't stay in your designated area and wandered off, security escorted you from the premises. Dramatic shift from a closed off, paranoid, hostile environment to openness, positivity, high energy, and most importantly, competence.

Other coaches have come into Detroit and talked about it being a blue collar town and gritty and on the comeback, yada yada yada. I think Dan Campbell absolutely believes what he says. The Dude started off his first interview by leaning in close on the Zoom and telling SFH "I really want this job." Man cried the first time he saw the field after getting the job. Calvin Johnson talks about him playing on one arm on an 0-16 team, always giving it everything he had - The Dude has mad respect rn.

Ultimately none of this feel good stuff matters if they don't build a winner. It has to translate to success, that's how MCDC is going to be measured down the road. But for a guy who was on nobody's radar as a HC candidate, he has come in here and absolutely crushed his first 20 weeks as the new head coach.

Next week they have workouts June 14-17 and then I think they're pretty much on their own until Training Camp starts on July 27? 

Staying in Allen Park for TC this year with no joint practices with other teams.

 
MCDC daily presser highlights:

  • Okudah bumped heads with Kallf Raymond Tuesday during a walk through so they were both held out as a precaution but back at today (final day of veteran minicamp)
  • Next week's voluntary workouts will be mostly the younger guys (around 50 vs. I *think* 83 in the initial OTAs), basically all the guys years 1-4 but it's voluntary so not all the older guys are opting to attend
  • the core of the offense and defense have been installed already which was an important goal so they can drill into details from the get go when TC breaks
  • Gurley came up again today since he's visiting the Ravens. "Hey we're interested, if it works out great, but it'll be on our terms." Previously he has said signing him would not impact how they intend to use Swift and Williams but they would love to have his veteran leadership.
Nothing planned beyond next week's OTAs until Training Camp and even the coaches are taking some time off (he has to get his family moved to Detroit.) This was probably his last media appearance before TC so doubtful they'll be much to report on for the next 6-1/2 weeks. Well....he is the Grand Marshall this weekend at the Detroit Grand Prix so there's that.

 
BobbyLayne said:
MCDC daily presser highlights:

  • Okudah bumped heads with Kallf Raymond Tuesday during a walk through so they were both held out as a precaution but back at today (final day of veteran minicamp)
  • Next week's voluntary workouts will be mostly the younger guys (around 50 vs. I *think* 83 in the initial OTAs), basically all the guys years 1-4 but it's voluntary so not all the older guys are opting to attend
  • the core of the offense and defense have been installed already which was an important goal so they can drill into details from the get go when TC breaks
  • Gurley came up again today since he's visiting the Ravens. "Hey we're interested, if it works out great, but it'll be on our terms." Previously he has said signing him would not impact how they intend to use Swift and Williams but they would love to have his veteran leadership.
Nothing planned beyond next week's OTAs until Training Camp and even the coaches are taking some time off (he has to get his family moved to Detroit.) This was probably his last media appearance before TC so doubtful they'll be much to report on for the next 6-1/2 weeks. Well....he is the Grand Marshall this weekend at the Detroit Grand Prix so there's that.
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i was suprised to read that Gurley is only 26 years old.

 
Da Guru said:
i was suprised to read that Gurley is only 26 years old.
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I think ai heard the other day (I didn’t look it up to confirm) that Gurley has received 180+ touches for like 10-12 years going back to when he first made the varsity in h.s. I think it’s gotta be tough for him accepting that for the first time ever, he’s not going to be the guy. No matter which team invites him for a visit.

The local has been baffled by the Lions interest. I think it was Justin Rodgers who said “this reeks of Brad Holmes doing a favor for a friend.” He doesn’t fit in terms of a rebuild. But if he doesn’t mind being a third stringer with a limited role, they’d welcome him. I think he’s in BAL bc nobody else wants him and do if he’s gonna be a scrub, might as well be with a team that might actually make the playoffs.

 
BobbyLayne said:
I think ai heard the other day (I didn’t look it up to confirm) that Gurley has received 180+ touches for like 10-12 years going back to when he first made the varsity in h.s. I think it’s gotta be tough for him accepting that for the first time ever, he’s not going to be the guy. No matter which team invites him for a visit.

The local has been baffled by the Lions interest. I think it was Justin Rodgers who said “this reeks of Brad Holmes doing a favor for a friend.” He doesn’t fit in terms of a rebuild. But if he doesn’t mind being a third stringer with a limited role, they’d welcome him. I think he’s in BAL bc nobody else wants him and do if he’s gonna be a scrub, might as well be with a team that might actually make the playoffs.
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Rams and Ravens were three deep at RB last year and we've played street FAs like Scarborough in long stretches the past few years at what has to be the toughest position to play as far as injuries.  So if we can get Gurley or a vet on a one-year I can see it makes sense.  It does nerf Swift's ADP but I think he is already being overdrafted and JW is probably going to get a lot more touches than most are thinking.  Relying on Jemar to play a significant role this year seems really optimistic.

 
tangfoot said:
Please tell me there’s a Barry highlight for the each of the next 84 days
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The amazing thing about Barry is the guy never got hit hard.  He somehow had special powers where he knew where every player on the field was and had the skills to evade them.  in a film of the 100 greatest runs in NFL history, Barry should have about 50 of them.  

 
Allow me to say that even at the time I thought Barry was a better back than Emmitt and was quite vocal about it even though I had no skin in the game. Barry just far and away the most electric of backs. Pure poetry.

 
Lions RBs last year above average in yards before contact at 2.7 but worst in league in yards after contact at 1.4 and in % of yds after contact.

Extrapolating suggests that Lions OL did their job but RBs could not. Stats dont break it down for each RB.

May suggest Swift better suited for passing game. May open up bigger roles for Williams or Jefferson running the ball.

GB backs were tied for 2nd at 2.3 for yds after contact. But again not broken down regarding Jones and Williams.

https://t.co/KuPUeqZxGW?amp=1

 
Moonlight said:
Lions RBs last year above average in yards before contact at 2.7 but worst in league in yards after contact at 1.4 and in % of yds after contact.

Extrapolating suggests that Lions OL did their job but RBs could not. Stats dont break it down for each RB.

May suggest Swift better suited for passing game. May open up bigger roles for Williams or Jefferson running the ball.

GB backs were tied for 2nd at 2.3 for yds after contact. But again not broken down regarding Jones and Williams.

https://t.co/KuPUeqZxGW?amp=1
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Advanced Rushing stats 2020 - every NFL player

 
How many of the Lions 22 Hall of Fame players could you name?

I wrote down 13 - of the 9 I missed, it might be more accurate to say “guys who played for the Lions at some point” for at least 5. Two of them I had legit never heard of at all.

The newest member was at the rocket Mortgage Pro-Am this week. Great to see him around again.

 
OK just had to do a little research during lunchtime bc I could have sworn the Lions HoF list hit 15 last year.

Lion for life (only played for Detroit) - 12   

Dutch Clark, Doak Walker, Lou Creekmur, Jack Christenson, Yale Lary, Joe Schmidt, Alex Karras, **** Lebeau, Lem Barney, Charlie Sanders, Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson. I missed one

Inducted as a Lion - 4

Alex Wojciechowicsz, Bobby Layne, Night Train Lane, **** Stanfel. Missed two

Someone talk to the intern - 6

Bill Dudley, Frank Gatski, Hugh McElhenny, Ollie Matson, John Henry Johnson, Curley Culp. 76 nfl seasons, 11 in Detroit. Just stop.

 
Any predictions whether any Lions currently on roster will make Hall of Fame?

You need a combination of longevity, opportunity and superior performance. For longevity you need to be healthy for many years. For now it you would most likely say someone on the O Line or Tj Hock or one of the new DL rooks.

Last year you could have said Peterson but you dont usually think of Lions, AP and Hall of Fame in same sentence.

 
Moonlight said:
Any predictions whether any Lions currently on roster will make Hall of Fame?

You need a combination of longevity, opportunity and superior performance. For longevity you need to be healthy for many years. For now it you would most likely say someone on the O Line or Tj Hock or one of the new DL rooks.

Last year you could have said Peterson but you dont usually think of Lions, AP and Hall of Fame in same sentence.
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No one is currently on a HoF trajectory. Agree with your projected possibilities. But start going through rosters & you quickly realize every team has more difference makers than we do. It truly is a barren cupboard outside of a handful of good/VG/not great (yet) guys. 

 
tangfoot said:
Not currently on the roster, but Stafford can get to the promised land with a spectacular second half of his career 
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He’ll hit the top ten in passing yards in 2022 and the top ten in TDs in 2023. Currently 16th in both. Could easily end up top 5 in both by 2026, when he’ll be 38 (also depends on when Rodgers & Ryan hang ‘em up.)

The legacy though will be about how well he does in the postseason. He’s almost surely going to end up breaking Favre’s Pick 6 record (7th w/ 23, ATR is 31), would be nice to have a ring or two to leave no debate on whether he deserves to go Canton. Love the dude & wish him well.

 
Moonlight said:
I like your list better too but might substitute Barnes for ARSB
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We could have taken Jabril Cox, best cover LB in the draft. That’s a real scratcher for me.

Scheme and pressures generated should he better. But our backers are really slow and we didn’t address that.

 
BobbyLayne said:
We could have taken Jabril Cox, best cover LB in the draft. That’s a real scratcher for me.

Scheme and pressures generated should he better. But our backers are really slow and we didn’t address that.
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Cox went two picks later.  It seemed there were concerns about his long term recovery from his shoulder injury.

Would make a good question for a podcast or some mailbag why Lions chose Barnes over Cox.

 
Moonlight said:
Cox went two picks later.  It seemed there were concerns about his long term recovery from his shoulder injury.

Would make a good question for a podcast or some mailbag why Lions chose Barnes over Cox.
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They got their man. Moved up 40 spots to ensure they got the Purdue LB. In my mind the LSU guy was vastly superior, best PFF coverage grades in FSB - the 2020 LB corps’ achilles heel. But I’m just a fan, the folks who get paid for their opinions got the highest rated guy on their board.

At the end of the day, it’s unlikely either Day 3 pick will be a difference maker. Besides health, Cox had some pink flags (late bloomer, xfer) that made 31 teams hesitate. We have to trust that Dorsey & Co made the correct evaluation.

I’ve watched tape and interviews of all 7 draft picks. One thing you can say is Holmes/MCDC got guys who fit their concept of a football player. Hard workers, leaders, different personalities but every one of them are high character kids and highly motivated.

I don’t know if Campbell is a good coach. In today’s NFL you need to be a great administrator, you’re managing coordinations and assistants more than coaching up. Think about Reid or Arians - both SB coaches fit that CEO model. The HC is in charge of the vision and implementing the mission statement, getting buy in to execute the plan. The management style feels right for where the league is at.

I presume the staff hires were mostly Campbell decisions, and he did an awesome job. Was amazing to read highly sought after candidates were actually choosing Detroit over other opportunities. That’s new.

6 year contract and it’s a full on rebuild, might be a minute before we see positive results. Also, unlike Quintricia, Holmes is not married to Campbell. Each will succeed or fail on their own merit. Barring a disaster or scandal, they each will have a good 5 year window to prove themselves. There’s absolutely no pressure this year though obviously you want to see a change in attitudes.

So far, even the biggest cynic has admit the shift in culture has been amazing to watch.

 
BobbyLayne said:
I’ve watched tape and interviews of all 7 draft picks. One thing you can say is Holmes/MCDC got guys who fit their concept of a football player. Hard workers, leaders, different personalities but every one of them are high character kids and highly motivated.
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Which is why I think the Lions were able to get the guys they wanted.  The Lions put more weight into the character aspect.  They got guys who live and breath football and will leave everything on the field.  I think that is inline with what Detroit fans love and I also think that is a good formula for winning football.  There are lots of players who look great on paper, but never excel in the NFL and that is usually what is lacking.  That is what I see is missing in someone like Perriman, and while I would love to see him blossom and finally live up to his natural abilities, I just don't think it will happen unless something inside him clicks on.  But that is also why I would not count out Barnes and Jefferson from sticking around and eventually having an impact.  

 
2022 NFL Draft capital

1st round       

1st round (from Rams)

2nd round

3rd round

3rd round (projected compensatory pick)

5th round

5th round (projected compensatory pick)

6th round

6th round (projected compensatory pick)

7th round (from Patriots)

7th round (from Browns)

 
5 players

1. Good Jared or Bad Jared? Consensus seems to be QB20-26 this year and we’ll be drafting the franchise QB with a Top 2 pick in 2022 (though I expect Goff to start next year as well.)

2. Jeff Okudah is, to me, the key to the Lions defense this year. He simply has to evolve into a competent coverage corner. If he plays as bad as last year it doesn’t matter how much pressure they generate. They’ll likely carry 6 CBs on the 53 man and Iffy is a year or two away from being the other starting corner, but we’re in trouble if we can’t count on the #3 pick from last years draft being a foundational piece.

3. TJ Hockenson - primed for a breakout season. Should see 135+ targets but I question if he’ll get the RZ opportunities to move into the Kittle-Waller range.

4. D’Andre Swift - probably the toughest guy in the division to project. If he stays healthy and gets 250-275 touches he should finish top 12. Clearly the most dynamic playmaker they have rn.

5. Trey Flowers - still only 27 and a force when healthy, but this is a pivotal year. Although I expect he and Romeo will be rushing from the Edge, they are both designated as OLB in the new scheme. Not sure about the wisdom of dropping 4.93/4.90 guys into coverage but we will be blitzing more this year. Excited to see how Aaron Glenn utilizes him.

 
Lions, Pistons, Wings on the way up due to recent changes in GMs.

Tigers maybe.

You can accepting losing seasons much, much easier when you believe in the future and its fun watching your teams develop.

 
So read yesterday that it was evident from Jesse James' first practice with the Lions that he was plain not good and inferior to Logan Thomas. Thomas develops into a top 10 TE with increased playing time with Washington and James took up bench space.

 
Moonlight said:
So read yesterday that it was evident from Jesse James' first practice with the Lions that he was plain not good and inferior to Logan Thomas. Thomas develops into a top 10 TE with increased playing time with Washington and James took up bench space.
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James was a terrible signing but super happy for Logan Thomas. 7 team, 7 year two position odyssey finally paid off last year. Got paid this week (3 year, $24M.) He was never gonna see that kind of opportunity in Detroit and to get that kind of a haul at age 30 is a great story.

 
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