2025 Miami Dolphins - Draft 2025 (8 Viewers)

[SoBeDad]

The Miami offense did much better with Fitzpatrick than Tua. Fitzpatrick had very good QB grades with a terrible line and subpar RBs and without Waddle. He made Parker almost all-pro again.

In the words of Ruthie Polinsky:

"If you can't see that this offense is so very limited with Tua, I don't know what to tell you."

 

[crushedspirit]

I'm just an outside observer, but I have to say, how the hell do they fire Flores yet keep Grier? What has he produced with all his first round picks over the years? 

 

[Todem]

I'm just an outside observer, but I have to say, how the hell do they fire Flores yet keep Grier? What has he produced with all his first round picks over the years? 

As bad as Grier blew the 2020 draft and should be fired for it…..he hit a homerun in 2021.

He parlayed Tunsil and Minkah into multiple 1st rounders (which if he takes Herbert, Jonathan Taylor and anyone not named Iggobonne and Austin Jackson) this team is in a completely different place.

He has been hit or miss like most GM’s but the big whiff of 2020 should have gotten him canned. You can’t blow 3 first rounders in one draft and survive….yet here we are.

P.S

His track record in free agency has been miserable.

 

[TripleThreat]

I'm just an outside observer, but I have to say, how the hell do they fire Flores yet keep Grier? What has he produced with all his first round picks over the years? 

That's a head scratcher from those of us who watch every single game  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If Gesicki leaves, doesn't Miami recoup a 3rd round compensatory pick like the Patriots typically rack up?

Not necessarily - the formula for comp picks also takes into consideration the players Miami signs. So if Gesicki walks but the Dolphins spend that money somewhere else is cancels out.

 

[TripleThreat]

Can you be more specific? I would love to read details because it's clear Miami is saying he was not fired because of his coaching abilities...so we're running the franchise with what playbook exactly if coaching was a non factor in the Head Coach position and operations...this is disturbing quite frankly. 

Nothing written.  Listening to a bunch of interviews, podcasts and reading tweets from multiple sources.  

among the podcasts, I like this one the best.

https://threeyardspercarry.podbean.com/e/3ypc-brian-flores-fired-episode-4257/

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Something else to really ponder and hear me out:

Xavier Howard will be turning 29 in July. He has probably 2 more true prime years left. Do you trade him   before this years draft and try to get in a haul. He is clearly our best player. I love him. But his value will never be higher ever again. 

We are still rebuilding. We really need more draft picks for 2023 and 2024 as well as this years draft. 

Thoughts?

So now you go out and spend draft capital on positions you have at an ALL-Pro level, at that point why even try and be a fan of the team if you have to quiver and bend every time you have a stud because they want more money or want to win. 

Vincent-Madison-Howard...they don't come along every day so the next guy you get is likely going to pale in comparison and Miami will no longer be a great defense and we know their offense sucks so now you're gong backwards. 

You want a complete strip rebuild again? Wilkins, Ogbah, is there anyone you will not trade and I'd like to hear all reasoning, good topic btw

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Nothing written.  Listening to a bunch of interviews, podcasts and reading tweets from multiple sources.  

among the podcasts, I like this one the best.

https://threeyardspercarry.podbean.com/e/3ypc-brian-flores-fired-episode-4257/

I'm listening...

-They present a scenario where Flores pushes a sexual predator(Watson) on to the team...there is a definite moral compass and SJW going on behind the scenes, just my honest opinion listening to some of this. I'm not taking sides but that is how they lay it out. 

-Flores refused to fire any of his assistant coaches and really why should he? 8-1 last 9 games, I think I'd stick to my guns if I were him, also his contract is totally guaranteed so he can shoot them a bird the entire way to the bank, wish both sides would not allow for these types of nonsense reports to take the narrative, it makes the front office look weak, Ross looks weak, this franchise is a joke the more we hear. Hurts our chances to get something better than Dabol which already makes me shake my head...that guy is not a Head Coach, he was already here, I woulda preferred Campbell if we were going to take that route. 

Pathetic, you can't sell me on another OC/DC with no NFL HC experience but that's because we are run like a night club. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Nothing written.  Listening to a bunch of interviews, podcasts and reading tweets from multiple sources.  

among the podcasts, I like this one the best.

https://threeyardspercarry.podbean.com/e/3ypc-brian-flores-fired-episode-4257/

It's a fascinating podcast though, clearly there are rumors I've never heard as I listen to this. I've said this before but you bring awesome snippets and items to this group we wouldn't otherwise hear and I really appreciate that about you. I know others feel same way. Thank you 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Chris Grier is the Marvin Lewis of General Managers 

 

[TripleThreat]

It's a fascinating podcast though, clearly there are rumors I've never heard as I listen to this. I've said this before but you bring awesome snippets and items to this group we wouldn't otherwise hear and I really appreciate that about you. I know others feel same way. Thank you 

Chapeau.  

 

[Todem]

So now you go out and spend draft capital on positions you have at an ALL-Pro level, at that point why even try and be a fan of the team if you have to quiver and bend every time you have a stud because they want more money or want to win. 

Vincent-Madison-Howard...they don't come along every day so the next guy you get is likely going to pale in comparison and Miami will no longer be a great defense and we know their offense sucks so now you're gong backwards. 

You want a complete strip rebuild again? Wilkins, Ogbah, is there anyone you will not trade and I'd like to hear all reasoning, good topic btw

We got two more years of Howard. Just bringing up the point that we can get a nice haul for him and improve the team in many areas.

Unless they go out and get a QB/RB/OL/WR now we are not winning anything in 22 and 23.

We do not have a QB in a QB dominated league.

 

[TripleThreat]

Mike McDaniel is an interesting name. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Ogbah Market Value is $10M+ per year and with guys like him hard to find, I could see him command a larger sum of money. Ogabah had an even slightly better 2021, b2b 9-sack seasons just missing double digits but he does a lot more, 9 TFL, 24 QB hits, he doesn't always have to produce a sack to make a play or cause a turnover in the secondary with a rushed throw. 

I see him getting something like 3-yr, $36M+, he turned 28 this past Nov, in his prime, not sure I want a new head coach that doesn't understand his value to the team. 

Christian Wilkins will either have to have his 5th year option exercised or we're talking contract extension that would kick in right after his 4th year in 2022. We can go thru franchise tag scenarios but it's likely he gets extended. 4-yr $60M if Vita Vea was an kind of barometer for how this is likely to go...uh huh these 2 will be costing Miami somewhere in the $25M-$30M  range but you gotta have them to anchor your defense the DL unit which is hard to assemble and I would prefer we not mess with it much. There are some other guys that i would like to make sure are coming back here. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Mike Gesicki Mkt Value 4-yr $44M, think I might let someone else pick that pay check up and keep our resources focused elsewhere for the time being. 

Want to know what Tua would likely get right now? Don't choke...Mkt value 6-yr $200M 

 

[Todem]

Mike Gesicki Mkt Value 4-yr $44M, think I might let someone else pick that pay check up and keep our resources focused elsewhere for the time being. 

Want to know what Tua would likely get right now? Don't choke...Mkt value 6-yr $200M 

Tua? Bwaaaaaaahahahahahah never.

News outta Miami….Flores wanted Herbert and Ross and Grier overruled him with Tua.

I freaking give up.

 

[SoBeDad]

Tua? Bwaaaaaaahahahahahah never.

News outta Miami….Flores wanted Herbert and Ross and Grier overruled him with Tua.

I freaking give up.

According to Barry Jackson:

>>Ross believes that Grier has upgraded the roster significantly and is fine with overlooking the mistakes, including the selection of Charles Harris over T.J. Watt, Noah Igbinoghene over a running back and the Tagovailoa/Justin Herbert decision. Again, Flores was involved the Igbinoghene and Tagovailoa decisions and on board with both. But it’s easier for Ross to keep the long-term employee with the pleasant demeanor — the one who treats him royally — than the only that’s perceived as difficult to work with. ▪ What about a CBS report that Flores preferred Herbert over Tagovailoa? Flores has told NFL people he’s a “height, weight, speed guy,” which led to speculation that he preferred Herbert. But a league source insisted both Grier and Flores were on board with drafting Tagovailoa, who was Ross’ preference. Ross didn’t order them to pick Tagovailoa, however.<<

And Omar Kelly:

>>Here is the FACT about Brian Flores, Chris Grier and Justin Herbert. 

If Flores wanted Herbert that would have been the pick because Chris Grier would give his head coach to the QB he wanted. 

This can’t and shouldn’t be debated anymore. So stop spreading fiction.<<

Most pundits thought Tua was a great pick. MOP and Chris Simms thought Herbert was a better choice.

 

[SwampDawg]

You can't believe anything. I've heard (all from what claim to be "legitimate sources" by the talking heads:

• Ross and Grier were all in on Watson and both before the season and before the trade deadline and Flores wanted to stick with the guy he had, Tua.
  
• Flores was leading the Watson push and Ross set the criteria that all cases needed to be settled knowing it was extremely unlikely because he wants Tua.
  
• 2019 Ross wanted them to tank for Tua at first and then for Burrow later, Flo refused costing them the #1 pick, Ross tried to trade up with the Bengals and after seeing Burrow become a star this year was mad.
  
• And now the Flores overruled the owner and GM and wanted Tua over Herbert.
  

-

 

[Todem]

According to Barry Jackson:

>>Ross believes that Grier has upgraded the roster significantly and is fine with overlooking the mistakes, including the selection of Charles Harris over T.J. Watt, Noah Igbinoghene over a running back and the Tagovailoa/Justin Herbert decision. Again, Flores was involved the Igbinoghene and Tagovailoa decisions and on board with both. But it’s easier for Ross to keep the long-term employee with the pleasant demeanor — the one who treats him royally — than the only that’s perceived as difficult to work with. ▪ What about a CBS report that Flores preferred Herbert over Tagovailoa? Flores has told NFL people he’s a “height, weight, speed guy,” which led to speculation that he preferred Herbert. But a league source insisted both Grier and Flores were on board with drafting Tagovailoa, who was Ross’ preference. Ross didn’t order them to pick Tagovailoa, however.<<

And Omar Kelly:

>>Here is the FACT about Brian Flores, Chris Grier and Justin Herbert. 

If Flores wanted Herbert that would have been the pick because Chris Grier would give his head coach to the QB he wanted. 

This can’t and shouldn’t be debated anymore. So stop spreading fiction.<<

Most pundits thought Tua was a great pick. MOP and Chris Simms thought Herbert was a better choice.

Funny thing is.....all this fiction is being talked about on the airwaves by all the same players......so what is the real story.

I will tell you the real story.

THEY PICKED THE WRONG GUY.

And both of them should have been fired......and if we could fire an owner.......we would as Ross is the root of all this chaos and failure. 

Period. This entire franchise is a joke.

 

[Todem]

You can't believe anything. I've heard (all from what claim to be "legitimate sources" by the talking heads:

• Ross and Grier were all in on Watson and both before the season and before the trade deadline and Flores wanted to stick with the guy he had, Tua.
  
• Flores was leading the Watson push and Ross set the criteria that all cases needed to be settled knowing it was extremely unlikely because he wants Tua.
  
• 2019 Ross wanted them to tank for Tua at first and then for Burrow later, Flo refused costing them the #1 pick, Ross tried to trade up with the Bengals and after seeing Burrow become a star this year was mad.
  
• And now the Flores overruled the owner and GM and wanted Tua over Herbert.
  

-

See......we will never know what really went on draft night 2020. 

Bottom line is......they blew it again. Par for the course with this team the last 20 plus years.

That is undeniable. 

I have no fake outrage about Flores getting canned......who cares to be honest. Does it really matter? This team is an average team with a really good defense and a high school playbook on offense with a subpar QB. As long as that stays the same I don’t care who is coaching.....we will never contend. 

Highest completion %? LOL Really? Tossing 5 yard in’s and 10 yard outs? Give me a break. So many Dolphins fans are insane at the stadium by the way....no clue what they are watching. Not a clue. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The year was 2011 and Miami was doing a fine job of losing plenty of early season games, a ringing theme for them many times over the previous 2 decades. 

Sporano had the team 0-7 in 2011 and Miami could have let him go and just about every coach with him, put low level assistants in charge the rest of the season, likely could have secured the No 1 pick but end up going 4-2 over a 6 week span including a 1-pt loss @Dallas and it ends up costing Miami the chance to take Andrew Luck in 2012 and instead we take Ryan Tannehill who in his defense, now that he has a full team and good coaching he magically is leading the Titans to the No 1 Seed in the AFC and already has an AFCC appearance under his belt, logical progression is Super Bowl this year although I don't believe they will make it. 

2008: 0--2 start

2009: 0-3 start

2010: 1-4 last 5 games including 0-3 in December

2011: 0-7 start

This was the Sporano era...

2012: 1-3 start 

2013: 3-0 start by the grace of god, quickly ripped off 4 losses in a row, 3-4

2014: 1-2 start to the season, 0-2 finish after getting to 8-6

2015: 1-3 start, Dan Campbell coached the final 12 weeks and ran the Oklahoma Drill to open his 1st practice as head coach of the Miami Dolphins, they blew out the Titans 38-10 in Campbell's 1st game as a Head Coach. 

This was the Joe Philbin era 

2016: 1-4 start 

2017: Managed to get a 4-2 start and then drop 5 losses in a row to go 4-7...

2018: 3-0 before going 1-4 right after that. 

Adam Gase era

2019: 0-7 start

2020: 1-3 start

2021: 1-7 start 

This was the Brian Flores era

A combined start over the last 15 years of 17-47, with 7 of those wins attributed to Adam Gase

-Is there any wonder Phinsfans check out by early October? 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You can't believe anything. 

  

From your fingers to God's ears, I can't grab on to this strongly enough to emphasize not just the Phins/Flores/New Coach search but almost every media report in the NFL is slanted in some way or form, very little of it is pure news which is why i prefer to just trying to understand the injury report each week for the 32 NFL teams, can't get into all the side drama when I am trying to figure out points spreads and game point totals. And I don't mean any disrespect to good reporters but a lot of the fluff on TV resembles a Kim Kardashian world of football knowledge and if you listen to those pundits then you are going to lose. 

As far as this nonsense with Ross, I don't give him any benefit of the doubt, not now and probably never. Wish he would just sell the team already and be done with it. He's been an absolute failure as an owner, been involved in poor leadership disasters like Bully-Gate, we're one of the laughing stocks in all of football because of how we run things. 

Media reports are all over the place, all of them want desperately to be right. 

 

[Shankopotamus]

A combined start over the last 15 years of 17-47, with 7 of those wins attributed to Adam Gase

-Is there any wonder Phinsfans check out by early October? 

How times have changed from when Miami used to be a feared team in September and October.  At one point I think they went over 10 years without losing a home game in September.  Better teams for sure, but better coaching to have them prepared for the start of the season as well (never thought I would include Wannstat in that category).

1990 8-1

1992 6-0

1993 6-1

1994 7-2

1995 6-3

1996 3-0

1997 5-2

1998 5-2

1999 7-1

2000 5-1

2001 6-2

2002 5-1

2003 5-2

 

[Gatorman]

The more clips I see of the SF OC, the more impressed I am.  Yale graduate.  

 

[SoBeDad]

The more clips I see of the SF OC, the more impressed I am.  Yale graduate.  

Doesn't Princeton have the most national championships?

 

[Todem]

The more clips I see of the SF OC, the more impressed I am.  Yale graduate.  

Then he will be certainly smart enough to say.....Tua? Nope.....we are going in another direction with that position. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

If Miami had a set of balls they would hire Dan Quinn on the understanding he could assist in orchestrating a trade with Seattle and obtain Russell Wilson who is looking to upgrade cities. 

How come we don't hear any of this being reported? How come it's. a short list of coordinators like Dabold from Buffalo who has NO head coaching experience, why do we continue to settle for complete unknown at HC?

When is enough going to be enough? We have posted it several times now that this path the Phins are being linked to in the media DOES NOT WORK!

 

[SwampDawg]

If Miami had a set of balls they would hire Dan Quinn on the understanding he could assist in orchestrating a trade with Seattle and obtain Russell Wilson who is looking to upgrade cities. 

How come we don't hear any of this being reported? How come it's. a short list of coordinators like Dabold from Buffalo who has NO head coaching experience, why do we continue to settle for complete unknown at HC?

When is enough going to be enough? We have posted it several times now that this path the Phins are being linked to in the media DOES NOT WORK!

Because too many better openings for those guys with experience or they are still collecting a check and only want a good opportunity.

 

[SoBeDad]

The good, bad, and ugly on Tua from Barry Jackson.   My take: with a good oline, he can take the Dolphins into the playoffs. How far remains to be determined. 

Good:  Percentage of third down throws that become first downs: 5th at 45.5 percent (45 for 99). This was the second-most surprising stat about Tagovailoa, behind only... Percentage of throws on 3rd and 8 or longer that become first downs: 5th at 35.8, which was surprisingly good - just ahead of Herbert.

Completion percentage inside the opponent’s 20-yard line: 2nd at 65.4. That’s one reason why the Dolphins were 12th best in the league in red zone offense, scoring touchdowns on 61.2 percent of their forays inside the other team’s 20 yard line.

Completion percentage on passes of 20 or more air yards: Third at 48.3 (14 for 29), behind only Kyler Murray and Herbert. But the Dolphins didn’t trust their offensive line enough to throw more of those types of passes.

Bad & Ugly:

Passer rating when under pressure: 27th at 55.3. Only Zach Wilson, Fields and Lawrence were worse. Burrow led the league at 92.4. Last year, Tagovailoa was also among the league’s worst QBs when facing pressure, with a passer rating of 45.6.

Interceptions: Tied for 18th most, with 10. That total was too high considering the games missed. ▪ Percentage of passes intercepted: 20th, at 2.6. But he also had at least five potential interceptions dropped; he was among the league’s most fortunate quarterbacks in that regard in 2020, per Football Outsiders. ▪ Yards passing per game: 29th, at 204.1. That number was skewed slightly because he was injured early against Buffalo and came off the bench for the second half against Baltimore. But no NFL team can expect postseason success with a passing game that generates that few yards per game through the air. Ten of the top 12 quarterbacks in yards passing per game are playoff bound; only Herbert and Kirk Cousins aren’t. Blame the Dolphins for not getting him more weapons and a better offensive line, but Tagovailoa also must improve.

Number of passing plays that covered 20 yards or more: 33rd, with 30. Even beyond the looming decision at quarterback, the offense needs a better starting running back, another quality receiver and at least two new offensive line starters

 

[Gatorman]

Then he will be certainly smart enough to say.....Tua? Nope.....we are going in another direction with that position. 

Let's have an honest conversation about this for a moment, setting aside our like or dislike of Tua and simply looking at the QB Landscape for 2022.

Guys rumored to be looking to move on:  Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, marriotta, Likely Bridgewater, Jimmy G, Maybe Mayfield and then some wildcards...

First Round QBs (per PFF): Pickett, Corral, Howell and whatever wildcard out there gets some love as we get closer to the draft.

We also have to add that O Line, LB, RB, and another WR are also priorities (and that if we take any one of these QBs without addressing the O Line we are simply pushing a rock up a hill). Finally, we have 2 first rounders in 2023 which is "supposed" to be a better QB draft class than this one.

So, what you got?

Watson gobbles up those 3 first rounders (+about 25% of our cap space) and is definitely an upgrade

Not sure what it would cost to get Wilson down here, but he still is under contract so it will not be a bag of chips, and he is an upgrade, but he's on the backside of his career it seems.

Rodgers is a FA so we can conceivably be in the mix, but he has no ties to South Florida (he's a west coast guy)

The rest are retreads.

The "Draftable" QBs are all considered mid round guys so hard to see them as an "Upgrade" to Tua, but I'll admit I haven't scouted any of them.

Finally, fix all the other issues and give Tua one more season?  

Again, this is the reality out there.  Assume you were the new coach, GM, or Ross.  How would you handle this?

 

[Todem]

Let's have an honest conversation about this for a moment, setting aside our like or dislike of Tua and simply looking at the QB Landscape for 2022.

Guys rumored to be looking to move on:  Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, marriotta, Likely Bridgewater, Jimmy G, Maybe Mayfield and then some wildcards...

First Round QBs (per PFF): Pickett, Corral, Howell and whatever wildcard out there gets some love as we get closer to the draft.

We also have to add that O Line, LB, RB, and another WR are also priorities (and that if we take any one of these QBs without addressing the O Line we are simply pushing a rock up a hill). Finally, we have 2 first rounders in 2023 which is "supposed" to be a better QB draft class than this one.

So, what you got?

Watson gobbles up those 3 first rounders (+about 25% of our cap space) and is definitely an upgrade

Not sure what it would cost to get Wilson down here, but he still is under contract so it will not be a bag of chips, and he is an upgrade, but he's on the backside of his career it seems.

Rodgers is a FA so we can conceivably be in the mix, but he has no ties to South Florida (he's a west coast guy)

The rest are retreads.

The "Draftable" QBs are all considered mid round guys so hard to see them as an "Upgrade" to Tua, but I'll admit I haven't scouted any of them.

Finally, fix all the other issues and give Tua one more season?  

Again, this is the reality out there.  Assume you were the new coach, GM, or Ross.  How would you handle this?

I can’t make a move for a proven veteran because that would gobble up all our draft capital and half our cap space. So that is out. Rodgers has what.....2 years maybe? He is no Brady when it comes to taking care of himself and he has always been an injury prone QB and behind this line would get murdered. 

Wilson is also on the back side of his career.....but IMO is the only viable vet I would consider because he has several years left in the tank. 

But making a move for either of those two means we think we are a QB away........and we are not. 

Watson is a whole other ballgame. Do I make the move for him if I know he is all clear? Yes. A special talent that will turn this ship around. You then go out and grab a few OL in free agency and make sure in the draft you find some deeper sleepers for OL depth. Watson is a guy you make that move for if again he is completely clear.  He is the big unknown. 

I do not reach for a QB in this years draft. Do we still take a QB? Yes. We take a QB every year till we hit on one. Where we take him is another story. 

With all this being said what I would likely do......is spend money in free agency on quality linemen. We must get this OL righted. 

We must bring in a real multi threat RB. One who can move the chains and catch the football. 

We also need to bring in a proven WR opposite Waddle, a veteran TE to replace Gesicki (he is not going to be here and I would not spend big money on him) to allow Long to continue to develop so he can be a real contributor by 2023.

I sit back.........I let Tua go one more season with all these improvements in the 2022 off-season and again watch him be Tua.....a QB with limited mobility and noodle arm and we make a big move in the draft in 2023 with 2 first round picks to grab a QB we are sold on. 

Either we go for broke and get a cleared Watson or we stick with Tua one more season to bridge to the 2023 draft.

 

[Gatorman]

I can’t make a move for a proven veteran because that would gobble up all our draft capital and half our cap space. So that is out. Rodgers has what.....2 years maybe? He is no Brady when it comes to taking care of himself and he has always been an injury prone QB and behind this line would get murdered. 

Wilson is also on the back side of his career.....but IMO is the only viable vet I would consider because he has several years left in the tank. 

But making a move for either of those two means we think we are a QB away........and we are not. 

Watson is a whole other ballgame. Do I make the move for him if I know he is all clear? Yes. A special talent that will turn this ship around. You then go out and grab a few OL in free agency and make sure in the draft you find some deeper sleepers for OL depth. Watson is a guy you make that move for if again he is completely clear.  He is the big unknown. 

I do not reach for a QB in this years draft. Do we still take a QB? Yes. We take a QB every year till we hit on one. Where we take him is another story. 

With all this being said what I would likely do......is spend money in free agency on quality linemen. We must get this OL righted. 

We must bring in a real multi threat RB. One who can move the chains and catch the football. 

We also need to bring in a proven WR opposite Waddle, a veteran TE to replace Gesicki (he is not going to be here and I would not spend big money on him) to allow Long to continue to develop so he can be a real contributor by 2023.

I sit back.........I let Tua go one more season with all these improvements in the 2022 off-season and again watch him be Tua.....a QB with limited mobility and noodle arm and we make a big move in the draft in 2023 with 2 first round picks to grab a QB we are sold on. 

Either we go for broke and get a cleared Watson or we stick with Tua one more season to bridge to the 2023 draft.

Ok, so we see this about the same.  I'm down for Watson (again, should be interesting to see if Miami was a FLO thing or a MIA thing), and we can figure it out from there or fix the rest of the issues and see if Tua can run the show and if not then go get someone else...

Gator

PS: I agree with the concept of "Pick a QB almost every year"  I think even if you have a proven starter you should be scouting/drafting a QB about every other year. Maybe every third year.  Seems to make the most logical sense for things like injury and if the guy is any good then you have draft capital to move him.  Then again, you'd need to have a "development" program (Kind of like what the Heat do with all these undrafted guys).

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I can’t make a move for a proven veteran because that would gobble up all our draft capital and half our cap space. So that is out. Rodgers has what.....2 years maybe? He is no Brady when it comes to taking care of himself and he has always been an injury prone QB and behind this line would get murdered. 

Wilson is also on the back side of his career.....but IMO is the only viable vet I would consider because he has several years left in the tank. 

But making a move for either of those two means we think we are a QB away........and we are not. 

Watson is a whole other ballgame. Do I make the move for him if I know he is all clear? Yes. A special talent that will turn this ship around. You then go out and grab a few OL in free agency and make sure in the draft you find some deeper sleepers for OL depth. Watson is a guy you make that move for if again he is completely clear.  He is the big unknown. 

I do not reach for a QB in this years draft. Do we still take a QB? Yes. We take a QB every year till we hit on one. Where we take him is another story. 

With all this being said what I would likely do......is spend money in free agency on quality linemen. We must get this OL righted. 

We must bring in a real multi threat RB. One who can move the chains and catch the football. 

We also need to bring in a proven WR opposite Waddle, a veteran TE to replace Gesicki (he is not going to be here and I would not spend big money on him) to allow Long to continue to develop so he can be a real contributor by 2023.

I sit back.........I let Tua go one more season with all these improvements in the 2022 off-season and again watch him be Tua.....a QB with limited mobility and noodle arm and we make a big move in the draft in 2023 with 2 first round picks to grab a QB we are sold on. 

Either we go for broke and get a cleared Watson or we stick with Tua one more season to bridge to the 2023 draft.

I do not reach for a QB in this years draft. Do we still take a QB? Yes. We take a QB every year till we hit on one. 

-I think of the dude in the wheelchair ringing the bell on Breaking Bad...Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Let's have an honest conversation about this for a moment, setting aside our like or dislike of Tua and simply looking at the QB Landscape for 2022.

Guys rumored to be looking to move on:  Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, marriotta, Likely Bridgewater, Jimmy G, Maybe Mayfield and then some wildcards...

First Round QBs (per PFF): Pickett, Corral, Howell and whatever wildcard out there gets some love as we get closer to the draft.

We also have to add that O Line, LB, RB, and another WR are also priorities (and that if we take any one of these QBs without addressing the O Line we are simply pushing a rock up a hill). Finally, we have 2 first rounders in 2023 which is "supposed" to be a better QB draft class than this one.

So, what you got?

Watson gobbles up those 3 first rounders (+about 25% of our cap space) and is definitely an upgrade

Not sure what it would cost to get Wilson down here, but he still is under contract so it will not be a bag of chips, and he is an upgrade, but he's on the backside of his career it seems.

Rodgers is a FA so we can conceivably be in the mix, but he has no ties to South Florida (he's a west coast guy)

The rest are retreads.

The "Draftable" QBs are all considered mid round guys so hard to see them as an "Upgrade" to Tua, but I'll admit I haven't scouted any of them.

Finally, fix all the other issues and give Tua one more season?  

Again, this is the reality out there.  Assume you were the new coach, GM, or Ross.  How would you handle this?

This is well thought out, you make valid points on the QBs you highlight and we are going to have to start thinking in reality but again that requires putting stock in decisions by this front office that brought us to this point. 

-You're not incorrect in everything you wrote there which is why I am highlighting it BUT again it almost requires suspension of disbelief for the average fan trying to rationale Stephen Ross and his every move, they quite frankly are beyond questionable at this point. Bully-Gate should have forced an immediate sell of the team...if the Carolina owner Richardson could be ousted over asking women to twirl around in their blue jeans once in a while, I think that scandal should have been enough for Ross even if it was done on the down low behind the scenes. Blaming Flores for why they went 5-4 after an 0-7 start when we all know Miami came under FIERCE PRESSURE to WIN games by Goodell and and many NFL pundits who felt it was unfair that they were tricking the system and so Ross caved and begged them to win games, you know that's the true spin and not that Flores put his foot down, that guy has a fully guaranteed deal and he could have gone 0-16 and nothing would have happened to him, the story as leaked by Miami doesn't make a lot of sense that Ross didn't like that Flores was winning down the stretch. 

We have those game threads, we can pull them, people were kind of happy we stopped being the laughing stock of the league for a few weeks. 

-I'm just saying be cautious about lining your thoughts up with a front office that can't even pass College Algebra, these people are not PhD level when it comes to the NFL, i wouldn't put much stock in their decision making ability. 

Cheers!

 

[Gatorman]

This is well thought out, you make valid points on the QBs you highlight and we are going to have to start thinking in reality but again that requires putting stock in decisions by this front office that brought us to this point. 

-You're not incorrect in everything you wrote there which is why I am highlighting it BUT again it almost requires suspension of disbelief for the average fan trying to rationale Stephen Ross and his every move, they quite frankly are beyond questionable at this point. Bully-Gate should have forced an immediate sell of the team...if the Carolina owner Richardson could be ousted over asking women to twirl around in their blue jeans once in a while, I think that scandal should have been enough for Ross even if it was done on the down low behind the scenes. Blaming Flores for why they went 5-4 after an 0-7 start when we all know Miami came under FIERCE PRESSURE to WIN games by Goodell and and many NFL pundits who felt it was unfair that they were tricking the system and so Ross caved and begged them to win games, you know that's the true spin and not that Flores put his foot down, that guy has a fully guaranteed deal and he could have gone 0-16 and nothing would have happened to him, the story as leaked by Miami doesn't make a lot of sense that Ross didn't like that Flores was winning down the stretch. 

We have those game threads, we can pull them, people were kind of happy we stopped being the laughing stock of the league for a few weeks. 

-I'm just saying be cautious about lining your thoughts up with a front office that can't even pass College Algebra, these people are not PhD level when it comes to the NFL, i wouldn't put much stock in their decision making ability. 

Cheers!

Without having this end up in the politics thread...  I am always surprised at the lack of simple Competence of supposedly successful people, Especially when their primary profit center is real estate.  Its hard to lose money in the real estate game bc property usually appreciates except in extreme circumstances.  Doesn't make them smart, just successful.  Compare this ownership group to Wayne Huizinga or Mickey Arison and it is almost laughable.  

However, with the above being said, when the person in charge is/was a real estate guy, you can't really do anything to change it you just have to hope for the best.  Plenty of dysfunctional franchises have won super bowls.  None recently,  but the 85 bears, the ray lewis ravens, mannings' colts, Grudens Bucs, and this current iteration of the packers are (were) all extremely screwed up yet managed to win one (or may win one in the case of this years packers)...

 

[SwampDawg]

Pretty much in the same spot @Gatorman and @Todem are. If and that is a big IF Watson is clear I'd go all in on him. He has the talent, we use every other resource on the O-line and a couple more weapons and we should be (assuming the coaching hire is good) a solid playoff team. As stated Wilson and Rodgers are too much of a "ready to win now" type move, we aren't there. Otherwise take a QB in the mid rounds, see what Tua can do behind a hopefully upgraded line and be ready to go all in with the 2023 draft class.

 

[Tanner9919]

how much of Tua's struggles can be placed at the feet of lousy coaching? 80%? 90%? he's a young kid, they all make mistakes first couple years in. he looks better than many other QBs at this same juncture have. I'd give him one more season. I think I read somewhere that the coaching staff and front office verdict on a young QB is 42 games into a career. by then, you know enough about a QB.

stick to your plan and get the players you need in the draft. watson is a nice toy, but is cost-prohibitive. don't sell the farm here.

 

[Todem]

how much of Tua's struggles can be placed at the feet of lousy coaching? 80%? 90%? he's a young kid, they all make mistakes first couple years in. he looks better than many other QBs at this same juncture have. I'd give him one more season. I think I read somewhere that the coaching staff and front office verdict on a young QB is 42 games into a career. by then, you know enough about a QB.

stick to your plan and get the players you need in the draft. watson is a nice toy, but is cost-prohibitive. don't sell the farm here.

By everything I am seeing here Tua will get one more season to prove he can be a franchise QB. Especially if they hire Daboll who coached Tua in his 2017 National Title run at Alabama. 

The team is not a contender. They need a revamped OL, RB and WR core. This will be a bridge year to the 2023 draft where we currently own two 1st round picks. And we may get more depending on what they do with Xavien Howard. Make no mistake I love Howard....he is the heart and soul of our defense and what allows them to be such a great 3-4 attack scheme. But now that Flores is gone.....who knows what is in store when the new HC comes to town with his own staff.

I am resigned to sit back and just hope Grier can really navigate free agency and this years draft and reload the offensive side of the ball. We are in a great position cap wise and have lot’s of draft capital. 

The issue though is Grier has proven more often than not he is not up to the task and again I ask.....why is he still here? Why? Ross in his 7 hires.....yes 7 has never started fresh in any of those hires. He always keeps the previous regimes GM instead of ripping off the band aid and going cold turkey like the Giants, Bears and Vikings are doing this off-season.

Grier needs to go too IMO. He has blown the QB 2 times now......and I don’t want him to get a 3rd chance to blow the QB position again.

Oh yeah....to answer your question about Tua......it is not coaching IMO....it is the complete lack of arm talent. He is no NFL QB that deserves to be a starter. He completely limits what the offense can do and can’t do. He cannot make all the throws and he is a one read QB. This is high school level crap. 

If a Dolphin fan can’t see the obvious lack of true NFL caliber arm strength than I don’t know what else say. 

I would love to be proven wrong on Tua......in the worst way. But I doubt I am wrong on him. 2022 will be a very tough year.....we maybe win 5-6 games IMO. Maybe. Buckle up for another rebuild year 1. Because we are absolutely an entire offensive unit away from being a real contender. I am sick and tired of 7,8,9 win seasons and going nowhere. This has been the same team for going on 21 years now.

 

[SwampDawg]

Heard a couple reports this morning that Harbaugh has put out the word he is interested in the Raiders job. Talk about a bad look, if Harbaugh leaves Michigan for Las Vegas and Ross and Miami wasn't even in play.

 

[SoBeDad]

Heard a couple reports this morning that Harbaugh has put out the word he is interested in the Raiders job. Talk about a bad look, if Harbaugh leaves Michigan for Las Vegas and Ross and Miami wasn't even in play.

Carr is better than Tua, and Harbaugh would have some GM duties in LV. Plus, Harbaugh has a history with the Raiders.

 

[SwampDawg]

Carr is better than Tua, and Harbaugh would have some GM duties in LV. Plus, Harbaugh has a history with the Raiders.

Agree on the Carr part, I would hope Ross isn't dumb enough to tell Harbaugh that he would have to answer to Grier. If he is then he deserves the second tier coach he is going to get.

 

[SoBeDad]

Daboll and interested teams can make their decisions soon. I'm still not sure he's the guy, I could call a good game for a QB like Allen. 

 

[Gatorman]

Daboll and interested teams can make their decisions soon. I'm still not sure he's the guy, I could call a good game for a QB like Allen. 

Interesting to note that the GM that the Giants got and Daboll were both in the building at some point and Miami let them go.  Some have reported that the real issue for the phins is that the scouting department has been allowed to "fail upward" and that is where the real issues lay. I think the Daboll thing comes to a head before the weekend and Daboll or Mcdonald are announced by the weekend or early next week. The Giants seem to be at Daboll/Flores at their final crux.  I'd love to see Daboll and Martindale down here, but Likely would settle for McD and a solid DC with HC experience as the consolation prize.

 

[SwampDawg]

I think at this point why not swing for the fences with McDaniel. I'm not sure how much he has to do with the 49ers or if it is all Shanahan but he seems like he could be a prodigal son. Daboll to me seems tike just another coordinator that at best becomes and ok head coach, at worse is a 3 year failure. 

Edit to add I preferred a Caldwell or even Pederson because they have the head coach experience but it seems the only option down that road is Joseph and I don't want him.

 

[SwampDawg]

Is it down to these three? Per the FBG news...

Dallas Cowboys offensive coordinator Kellen Moore, San Francisco 49ers offensive coordinator Mike McDaniel and Buffalo Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll are expected to receive second interviews for the Miami Dolphins' head coaching vacancy next week, according to multiple sources.

If this is true it tells me all three are very even or they are leaning McDaniel. If Moore or Daboll were the leader after round one why would you wait until next week to do their second interview and risk losing them to someone else. Either they see all three as equal after round one or they really want McDaniel.

 

[SwampDawg]

Well looks like the group of three is down to two.

 

[Gatorman]

Honest question for my dolphin peeps. 
 

so McDaniel seems to be a guy who made a good offense run w a mediocre qb. Daboll seems to be another guy who is a good OC but had a great qb to make him look even better. Which one would you prefer for Tua or the offense in general?  
 

seems like we have gone after the hot OC with the great QB for a while now.  Maybe this is a better move?

 

[cheeseypoof]

From 790am The Ticket:

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported Thursday that Miami will conduct second interviews next week with Cowboys offensive coordinator Kellen Moore, Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll and 49ers offensive coordinator Mike McDaniel.

Looks like it's now down to 2.  Kellen Moore and Matt McDaniel.  Don't know much about either, less so about McDaniel.  Not really liking either choice.

Guess we're going offense since the last coach was a defensive guy.

Any of you local guys hear anything else?

Been a fan of this team for 50+ years but it's getting harder and harder to remain a fan.  This franchise is pitiful.

 

[finfansteve]

From 790am The Ticket:

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported Thursday that Miami will conduct second interviews next week with Cowboys offensive coordinator Kellen Moore, Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll and 49ers offensive coordinator Mike McDaniel.

Looks like it's now down to 2.  Kellen Moore and Matt McDaniel.  Don't know much about either, less so about McDaniel.  Not really liking either choice.

Guess we're going offense since the last coach was a defensive guy.

Any of you local guys hear anything else?

Been a fan of this team for 50+ years but it's getting harder and harder to remain a fan.  This franchise is pitiful.

Fifty years of fandom here as well and you’re exactly right. We used to be considered one of the classy, model franchises in pro sports but we’ve become a real embarrassment over the years. It’s disappointing 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Heard a couple reports this morning that Harbaugh has put out the word he is interested in the Raiders job. Talk about a bad look, if Harbaugh leaves Michigan for Las Vegas and Ross and Miami wasn't even in play.

Amen to this and I know this is a week and half old but we hear Harbaugh mentioned with the Vikings, again would be a sad look if Harbaugh comes back and Ross is not even a part of the equation. 

It gets worse by the minute since Flores was let go.