30 years of probowl level QB play (1 Viewer)

[mcjc4]

Brett Favre lead the Packers for 17 years at an incredibly high level. Numerous MVPS, always in the playoff hunt and to 2 Superbowls. Assuming Rodgers is around for 10 more years has any other team in the history of the league been able to have 3 decades of that level of QB play for their team for that long?

I am a life long Vikings fan, so this situation is not something I revel in. I actual look at the NFC north QB situation for the near future and it looks pretty bad for us compared to the bears,packers and Lions.

 

[Jabrone]

Brett Favre lead the Packers for 17 years at an incredibly high level. Numerous MVPS, always in the playoff hunt and to 2 Superbowls. Assuming Rodgers is around for 10 more years has any other team in the history of the league been able to have 3 decades of that level of QB play for their team for that long?

I am a life long Vikings fan, so this situation is not something I revel in. I actual look at the NFC north QB situation for the near future and it looks pretty bad for us compared to the bears,packers and Lions.

Huge assumption.I think, outside of a few terribly unfortunate years, the dallas cowboys had a pretty good run with Meredith, Morton, Staubach, White and Aikman.

 

[mcjc4]

It is a huge assumption, but how many top 5 QB's over the past 20 years have left the game in the 20's because of injury? Can't think of many. Sure teams change starting QB's alot, but its usually over money or poor play. A healthy Rodgers is in GB for a long time.

Steve Young probably had a couple decent years left if her didnt get his skull bounced off the turf a few to many times, but i can't think of any marquee guys careers ending short do to a major injury.

 

[jdswan922]

It is a huge assumption, but how many top 5 QB's over the past 20 years have left the game in the 20's because of injury? Can't think of many. Sure teams change starting QB's alot, but its usually over money or poor play. A healthy Rodgers is in GB for a long time.Steve Young probably had a couple decent years left if her didnt get his skull bounced off the turf a few to many times, but i can't think of any marquee guys careers ending short do to a major injury.

Speaking of Young, how long did the Montana, Young, Garcia span last in San Fran?

 

[Jabrone]

It is a huge assumption, but how many top 5 QB's over the past 20 years have left the game in the 20's because of injury? Can't think of many. Sure teams change starting QB's alot, but its usually over money or poor play. A healthy Rodgers is in GB for a long time.Steve Young probably had a couple decent years left if her didnt get his skull bounced off the turf a few to many times, but i can't think of any marquee guys careers ending short do to a major injury.

Speaking of Young, how long did the Montana, Young, Garcia span last in San Fran?

'81-'03.Dallas' string went from '63-'00.

 

[psychobillies]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

 

[mcjc4]

It is a huge assumption, but how many top 5 QB's over the past 20 years have left the game in the 20's because of injury? Can't think of many. Sure teams change starting QB's alot, but its usually over money or poor play. A healthy Rodgers is in GB for a long time.

Steve Young probably had a couple decent years left if her didnt get his skull bounced off the turf a few to many times, but i can't think of any marquee guys careers ending short do to a major injury.

 

[David Yudkin]

I didn't look up every team, but here were three teams that came to mind that had solid QB play over the years and how many Pro Bowl selections they had at QB:

49ers (Since 1950) - 24

Frankie Albert 1

Y.A. Tittle 4

John Brodie 2

Joe Montana 7

Steve Young 7

Jeff Garcia 3

Colts (Since 1953) - 24

Johnny Unitas 10

Earl Morrall 1

Bert Jones 1

Jim Harbaugh 1

Peyton Manning 11

Cowboys (Since 1960) - 20

Eddie LeBaron 1

Don Meredith 3

Roger Staubach 6

Danny White 1

Troy Aikman 6

Tony Romo 3

 

[mcjc4]

It is a huge assumption, but how many top 5 QB's over the past 20 years have left the game in the 20's because of injury? Can't think of many. Sure teams change starting QB's alot, but its usually over money or poor play. A healthy Rodgers is in GB for a long time.Steve Young probably had a couple decent years left if her didnt get his skull bounced off the turf a few to many times, but i can't think of any marquee guys careers ending short do to a major injury.

Culpepper was at the top of his game when he blew his knee out. But Cunnigham, Jeff George and even Todd Bauman had great success with Moss and Carter and Jake Reed running routes for them.

 

[dgreen]

The Dolphins only had a 3-year gap between Griese and Marino. Griese made 8 PBs and Marino made 9 from 1967-1999. And, Morrall was AP (but not in the PB) in 1972.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

 

[Sabertooth]

It is a huge assumption, but how many top 5 QB's over the past 20 years have left the game in the 20's because of injury? Can't think of many. Sure teams change starting QB's alot, but its usually over money or poor play. A healthy Rodgers is in GB for a long time.

Steve Young probably had a couple decent years left if her didnt get his skull bounced off the turf a few to many times, but i can't think of any marquee guys careers ending short do to a major injury.

Speaking of Young, how long did the Montana, Young, Garcia span last in San Fran?

'81-'03.

Dallas' string went from '63-'00.

Oh please.

 

[Don Quixote]

Chargers went from Kemp to Hadl to Fouts, which was another pretty lengthy range.

 

[David Yudkin]

Chargers went from Kemp to Hadl to Fouts, which was another pretty lengthy range.

Chargers (Since 1960) - 17Jack Kemp 1John Hadl 5Tobin Rote 1Dan Fouts 6Drew Brees 1Philip Rivers 3

 

[Clinton]

Great topic! I was asking some buddies if they thought Favre-Rodgers could surpass Montana-Young as the best back-to-back QB combo for one team. Montana-Young will almost definitely have more Championships, but considering how many years Rodgers still has remaining, Favre-Rodgers will pummel Montana-Young in total seasons for one team and will probably also pummel Montana-Young in total statistics. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Something I wrote in '08:

Obviously he's got a big task following Favre. But don't forget that Young was terrific following Montana, and Garcia was very good following Young. Many more QBs than you might expect have succeeded following star QBs - Boomer Esiason (Ken Anderson), Marc Bulger (Kurt Warner), Ken Stabler (Daryle Lamonica), John Hadl (Roman Gabriel), John Brodie (Y.A. Tittle), Dan Fouts (John Hadl) and Neil Lomax (Jim Hart) all had great careers despite following another great QB. Rodgers doesn't have to look like Jay Fiedler and Brian Griese. Even Vince Young did very well his first year following Steve McNair. Further, the Favre trade should help Rodgers more than if he was still sitting on his couch - there won't be any articles written about how the Packers should go out and sign Favre.

 

[Fensalk]

How about Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Sam Bradford?

 

[CrossEyed]

Would be interesting to look at all positions on this.

 

[massraider]

How about Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Sam Bradford?

Ahhh, no.

 

[sho nuff]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

While he had a few, I think its more having a pro bowl caliber (whether he was playing at that level every year or not...and fact is for most of it he was) player there for a string that long.Hell, Rodgers didn't even make it this year.

 

[Fensalk]

How about Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Sam Bradford?

Ahhh, no.

I'm saying it could be. We have to revisit in 15 years.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

How about Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Sam Bradford?

Ahhh, no.

I'm saying it could be. We have to revisit in 15 years.

You seem to be ignoring the Bulger part.

 

[massraider]

How about Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Sam Bradford?

Ahhh, no.

I'm saying it could be. We have to revisit in 15 years.

Actually, I don't think it could be. Warner was as good as any QB when he was right, but he had some injuries, and his play fell off. He was only putting up numbers for a short time. In fact, now that I look at it, only two monster seasons, and one other one where he missed 5 games.

 

[Adebisi]

Would be interesting to look at all positions on this.

I was waiting for a Steelers fan to come in here and bring up linebackers.

 

[Adebisi]

How about Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Sam Bradford?

Ahhh, no.

I'm saying it could be. We have to revisit in 15 years.

Actually, I don't think it could be. Warner was as good as any QB when he was right, but he had some injuries, and his play fell off. He was only putting up numbers for a short time. In fact, now that I look at it, only two monster seasons, and one other one where he missed 5 games.

And yet you still get people who are convinced that he's a surefire Hall of Famer. I just don't get it.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Bledsoe to Brady wasn't too bad of a run

 

[Adebisi]

Bledsoe to Brady wasn't too bad of a run

I don't know. Bledsoe was infuriating to watch at times. I know a lot of Pats fans who were thrilled that they traded him within the division.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Bledsoe to Brady wasn't too bad of a run

I just looked at his stats and I didn't realize his highest passer rating was in 1997 and it was 87.7 and for his career it was 77.1 Interesting.

 

[CalBear]

Actually, I don't think it could be. Warner was as good as any QB when he was right, but he had some injuries, and his play fell off. He was only putting up numbers for a short time. In fact, now that I look at it, only two monster seasons, and one other one where he missed 5 games.

And yet you still get people who are convinced that he's a surefire Hall of Famer. I just don't get it.

He is. #2 in yards/game, #2 in completion percentage, #8 in yards/pass attempt, #7 in passer rating, three Super Bowl appearances and one win, with two different passing-dominated offenses. Plus two great comeback stories. The Hall of Fame eats that stuff up.

 

[David Yudkin]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

I'm not the biggest Favre fan, but this is flaVVed on so many levels. Comparing 2010 passer ratings to those 15 years ago is pointless, as very few QBs had numbers comparible to 2010.Favre ranked in the Top 5 in passer rating 5 times and Top 10 4 other times.

 

[TheChairman]

You can extend that a couple years for Majkowski

 

[BeaverCleaver]

You can extend that a couple years for Majkowski

His only full healthy season was 1989.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

I'm not the biggest Favre fan, but this is flaVVed on so many levels. Comparing 2010 passer ratings to those 15 years ago is pointless, as very few QBs had numbers comparible to 2010.Favre ranked in the Top 5 in passer rating 5 times and Top 10 4 other times.

I understand what you're saying, and of course I sensationalized a bit with the cross-era comparisons ... but didn't your last sentence basically strengthen my point? The question was how often in those 17 seasons he was actually playing at a "pro bowl" level. I said maybe half of them. Your statement could be interpreted as, essentially, definitely in 5 seasons, borderline in four other seasons. If anything, that's a stronger anti-Favre conclusion than mine.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

I'm not the biggest Favre fan, but this is flaVVed on so many levels. Comparing 2010 passer ratings to those 15 years ago is pointless, as very few QBs had numbers comparible to 2010.Favre ranked in the Top 5 in passer rating 5 times and Top 10 4 other times.

I understand what you're saying, and of course I sensationalized a bit with the cross-era comparisons ... but didn't your last sentence basically strengthen my point? The question was how often in those 17 seasons he was actually playing at a "pro bowl" level. I said maybe half of them. Your statement could be interpreted as, essentially, definitely in 5 seasons, borderline in four other seasons. If anything, that's a stronger anti-Favre conclusion than mine.

No it isn't.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I understand what you're saying, and of course I sensationalized a bit with the cross-era comparisons ... but didn't your last sentence basically strengthen my point?

The question was how often in those 17 seasons he was actually playing at a "pro bowl" level. I said maybe half of them. Your statement could be interpreted as, essentially, definitely in 5 seasons, borderline in four other seasons. If anything, that's a stronger anti-Favre conclusion than mine.

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.I said he was a Pro Bowler in maybe half the seasons. Yudkin pointed out that he was a Top Five passer in five seasons, and a Top Ten passer in four others. Even if we disregard rushing totals, that data tells us that if passer rating is the primary criteria for QB performance (and it's the best one offered for now), Favre was only a definite Pro Bowl player five times, since they only take six QBs to the Pro Bowl. In those other four seasons he was in the Top Ten, which makes him "borderline" Pro Bowl, i.e. borderline Top Six.

I'm sure he made more pro bowls than that thanks to John Madden's regular professions of his eternal Favrelove, but his performance didn't justify it.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

I understand what you're saying, and of course I sensationalized a bit with the cross-era comparisons ... but didn't your last sentence basically strengthen my point?

The question was how often in those 17 seasons he was actually playing at a "pro bowl" level. I said maybe half of them. Your statement could be interpreted as, essentially, definitely in 5 seasons, borderline in four other seasons. If anything, that's a stronger anti-Favre conclusion than mine.

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.I said he was a Pro Bowler in maybe half the seasons. Yudkin pointed out that he was a Top Five passer in five seasons, and a Top Ten passer in four others. Even if we disregard rushing totals, that data tells us that if passer rating is the primary criteria for QB performance (and it's the best one offered for now), Favre was only a definite Pro Bowl player five times, since they only take six QBs to the Pro Bowl. In those other four seasons he was in the Top Ten, which makes him "borderline" Pro Bowl, i.e. borderline Top Six.

I'm sure he made more pro bowls than that thanks to John Madden's regular professions of his eternal Favrelove, but his performance didn't justify it.

He was named to the Pro Bowl 9 times as a Packer and 11 times in his career. And it is laughable trying to use rushing yards as a measure of how good a QB is.

 

[CrossEyed]

Would be interesting to look at all positions on this.

I was waiting for a Steelers fan to come in here and bring up linebackers.

Actually, I was thinking centers.

 

[jameson1]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

Only 11 QBs with more than 1500 career attempts have a career QB rating of greater than 90. 8 of those 11 are active today (Kurt Warner would have been #9). As ive said in other threads, comparing passer ratings from even the 90's to those of today is ridiculous and incomparable, and even if you do the ol' Gunslinger is still #17 of all-time at 86.1 of all-time (right behind Carson Palmer at #15 @86.7, lol @ qb rating inflation)But to also put that into perspective, Troy Aikman's career QB rating was 82.7, Dan Marino 85.7, Jim Kelly 83.2.

To your point about "cracking 100", he did break 100 (107 actually) in 2009, and he came in at 99.5 in 1995, which to me is far more impressive than the 107 in 2009. I should also point out that only 1 QB has a career average over 100, none other than Aaron Rodgers at 100.3. Next closest are Steve Young and Pihiilip Rivers at 95.7. its all about the west coast offense really and its inflationary effect upon QB ratings.

Im no vikings or Green Bay fan, but you can't deny the guy has put up incredible numbers over an unprecedented period of time and attempts.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

Only 11 QBs with more than 1500 career attempts have a career QB rating of greater than 90. 8 of those 11 are active today (Kurt Warner would have been #9). As ive said in other threads, comparing passer ratings from even the 90's to those of today is ridiculous and incomparable, and even if you do the ol' Gunslinger is still #17 of all-time at 86.1 of all-time (right behind Carson Palmer at #15 @86.7, lol @ qb rating inflation)But to also put that into perspective, Troy Aikman's career QB rating was 82.7, Dan Marino 85.7, Jim Kelly 83.2.

To your point about "cracking 100", he did break 100 (107 actually) in 2009, and he came in at 99.5 in 1995, which to me is far more impressive than the 107 in 2009. I should also point out that only 1 QB has a career average over 100, none other than Aaron Rodgers at 100.3. Next closest are Steve Young and Pihiilip Rivers at 95.7. its all about the west coast offense really and its inflationary effect upon QB ratings.

Im no vikings or Green Bay fan, but you can't deny the guy has put up incredible numbers over an unprecedented period of time and attempts.

I won't be surprised when some of his haters will try and make a case that he shouldn't go into the HOF.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I understand what you're saying, and of course I sensationalized a bit with the cross-era comparisons ... but didn't your last sentence basically strengthen my point?

The question was how often in those 17 seasons he was actually playing at a "pro bowl" level. I said maybe half of them. Your statement could be interpreted as, essentially, definitely in 5 seasons, borderline in four other seasons. If anything, that's a stronger anti-Favre conclusion than mine.

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.I said he was a Pro Bowler in maybe half the seasons. Yudkin pointed out that he was a Top Five passer in five seasons, and a Top Ten passer in four others. Even if we disregard rushing totals, that data tells us that if passer rating is the primary criteria for QB performance (and it's the best one offered for now), Favre was only a definite Pro Bowl player five times, since they only take six QBs to the Pro Bowl. In those other four seasons he was in the Top Ten, which makes him "borderline" Pro Bowl, i.e. borderline Top Six.

I'm sure he made more pro bowls than that thanks to John Madden's regular professions of his eternal Favrelove, but his performance didn't justify it.

He was named to the Pro Bowl 9 times as a Packer and 11 times in his career. And it is laughable trying to use rushing yards as a measure of how good a QB is.

So, about half of his 17 years as a Packer. Exactly what I said. I actually would have expected more, but it sounds like he only made a couple of undeserved Pro Bowls. So what's your issue with what i said again?I didn't use rushing totals. I simply pointed out that some QBs make positive contributions to team success with rushing, such that passer ratings don't capture their impact on the game as accurately. Favre isn't one of them. Again, what's your problem with that?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

Only 11 QBs with more than 1500 career attempts have a career QB rating of greater than 90. 8 of those 11 are active today (Kurt Warner would have been #9). As ive said in other threads, comparing passer ratings from even the 90's to those of today is ridiculous and incomparable, and even if you do the ol' Gunslinger is still #17 of all-time at 86.1 of all-time (right behind Carson Palmer at #15 @86.7, lol @ qb rating inflation)But to also put that into perspective, Troy Aikman's career QB rating was 82.7, Dan Marino 85.7, Jim Kelly 83.2.

To your point about "cracking 100", he did break 100 (107 actually) in 2009, and he came in at 99.5 in 1995, which to me is far more impressive than the 107 in 2009. I should also point out that only 1 QB has a career average over 100, none other than Aaron Rodgers at 100.3. Next closest are Steve Young and Pihiilip Rivers at 95.7. its all about the west coast offense really and its inflationary effect upon QB ratings.

Im no vikings or Green Bay fan, but you can't deny the guy has put up incredible numbers over an unprecedented period of time and attempts.

I don't deny that. His longevity has resulted in incredible career numbers. And he's had a very fine career as a QB. Nothing even in the same universe as what many have made out to be, but a fine career. But I'm still not sure how anything you wrote shows he was a pro-bowl level QB in more than half his seasons in Green Bay. If anything, I overrated him there.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

I understand what you're saying, and of course I sensationalized a bit with the cross-era comparisons ... but didn't your last sentence basically strengthen my point?

The question was how often in those 17 seasons he was actually playing at a "pro bowl" level. I said maybe half of them. Your statement could be interpreted as, essentially, definitely in 5 seasons, borderline in four other seasons. If anything, that's a stronger anti-Favre conclusion than mine.

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.I said he was a Pro Bowler in maybe half the seasons. Yudkin pointed out that he was a Top Five passer in five seasons, and a Top Ten passer in four others. Even if we disregard rushing totals, that data tells us that if passer rating is the primary criteria for QB performance (and it's the best one offered for now), Favre was only a definite Pro Bowl player five times, since they only take six QBs to the Pro Bowl. In those other four seasons he was in the Top Ten, which makes him "borderline" Pro Bowl, i.e. borderline Top Six.

I'm sure he made more pro bowls than that thanks to John Madden's regular professions of his eternal Favrelove, but his performance didn't justify it.

He was named to the Pro Bowl 9 times as a Packer and 11 times in his career. And it is laughable trying to use rushing yards as a measure of how good a QB is.

So, about half of his 17 years as a Packer. Exactly what I said. I actually would have expected more, but it sounds like he only made a couple of undeserved Pro Bowls. So what's your issue with what i said again?I didn't use rushing totals. I simply pointed out that some QBs make positive contributions to team success with rushing, such that passer ratings don't capture their impact on the game as accurately. Favre isn't one of them. Again, what's your problem with that?

Nice try trying to diminish Favre's career with the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl over 50% of the time he was there. Do you realize how many teams wish they had that or how many teams and fans wish Favre was their QB during that time?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Nice try trying to diminish Favre's career with the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl over 50% of the time he was there. Do you realize how many teams wish they had that or how many teams and fans wish Favre was their QB during that time?

Lots of them.You asked the question ("How many is a bunch?") I answered you ("about half," an answer that was, in retrospect, too kind to Favre). And then I offered my editorial comment that he's comically overrated. I'm not sure what your issue is.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Nice try trying to diminish Favre's career with the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl over 50% of the time he was there. Do you realize how many teams wish they had that or how many teams and fans wish Favre was their QB during that time?

Lots of them.You asked the question ("How many is a bunch?") I answered you ("about half," an answer that was, in retrospect, too kind to Favre). And then I offered my editorial comment that he's comically overrated. I'm not sure what your issue is.

John Elway 9 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsJoe Montana 8 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsDan Marino 9 Pro Bowls in 17 years

 

[David Yudkin]

Favre had a bunch of not great years during his time in GB. Not sure you can say he was at a pro bowl level for 17 years there.

How many is a bunch?

Probably half of them, to be honest. Of his 17 seasons in Green Bay, he had a passer rating under 90 in 8 of them. For sake of comparison, there were 13 starting quarterbacks with passer ratings over 90 in 2011, including such first-ballot Hall of Famers as David Garrard, Matt Cassel and Joe Flaccn the flip side, Favre's passer rating for a season never cracked 100 in 17 years in Green Bay. Four quarterbacks did this in 2011 alone.

Favre also never rushed for more than 40 yards in a season- a secondary benefit provided by many quarterbacks to varying degrees every season.

He may be the most overrated athlete in American sports history.

I'm not the biggest Favre fan, but this is flaVVed on so many levels. Comparing 2010 passer ratings to those 15 years ago is pointless, as very few QBs had numbers comparible to 2010.Favre ranked in the Top 5 in passer rating 5 times and Top 10 4 other times.

I understand what you're saying, and of course I sensationalized a bit with the cross-era comparisons ... but didn't your last sentence basically strengthen my point? The question was how often in those 17 seasons he was actually playing at a "pro bowl" level. I said maybe half of them. Your statement could be interpreted as, essentially, definitely in 5 seasons, borderline in four other seasons. If anything, that's a stronger anti-Favre conclusion than mine.

Part of the problem here is that passer rating is mostly a made up category. I mean, which would you rather have, a guy with a high passer rating or a guy that wins football games? Passer rating by definition will deduct for certain things (say a hail mary interception or an incompletion instead of taking a sack) and completely ignore rushing prowess and production.There's no doubt that Favre benefitted from throwing a lot of passes in many of his seasons. He ranked in the Top 5 in passing attempts 12 times and Top 10 4 other times. As a result, his YPA numbers really aren't that great.

Favre's mythos is based largely on big yardage and TD totals and being the riverboat gambler. As a starting QB, he led 10 of his teams to 10+ victories in a season.

I don't think Favre holds up on detailed review of his pure numbers. Sure, his career totals are off the chart, but each season taken individually does not seem as great. IMO, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. He was probably a great QB for 5-6 seasons and a good one many of the other ones. He played at a relatively high level for a long time and lasted 20 years, both of which certainly help his cause.

To answer the initial question, no I don't think he should have been an 11 time Pro Bowl selection, but I suspect there have been many other players that made it in more often than they should based on name recognition.

The teenage drama queen/retiring stuff over the past 5 years really rubbed me the wrong way, but I guess that's open for each person to decide if that impacts their opinion of him.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Nice try trying to diminish Favre's career with the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl over 50% of the time he was there. Do you realize how many teams wish they had that or how many teams and fans wish Favre was their QB during that time?

Lots of them.You asked the question ("How many is a bunch?") I answered you ("about half," an answer that was, in retrospect, too kind to Favre). And then I offered my editorial comment that he's comically overrated. I'm not sure what your issue is.

John Elway 9 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsJoe Montana 8 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsDan Marino 9 Pro Bowls in 17 years

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. You asked a question, I answered it using some data. And then Yudkin offered up even better data to allow me to give a more accurate answer. What happened to three other guys in a subjective process is about as irrelevant to the conversation as anything I can imagine.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Nice try trying to diminish Favre's career with the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl over 50% of the time he was there. Do you realize how many teams wish they had that or how many teams and fans wish Favre was their QB during that time?

Lots of them.You asked the question ("How many is a bunch?") I answered you ("about half," an answer that was, in retrospect, too kind to Favre). And then I offered my editorial comment that he's comically overrated. I'm not sure what your issue is.

John Elway 9 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsJoe Montana 8 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsDan Marino 9 Pro Bowls in 17 years

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. You asked a question, I answered it using some data. And then Yudkin offered up even better data to allow me to give a more accurate answer. What happened to three other guys in a subjective process is about as irrelevant to the conversation as anything I can imagine.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Nice try trying to diminish Favre's career with the Packers. He made the Pro Bowl over 50% of the time he was there. Do you realize how many teams wish they had that or how many teams and fans wish Favre was their QB during that time?

Lots of them.You asked the question ("How many is a bunch?") I answered you ("about half," an answer that was, in retrospect, too kind to Favre). And then I offered my editorial comment that he's comically overrated. I'm not sure what your issue is.

John Elway 9 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsJoe Montana 8 Pro Bowls in 16 yearsDan Marino 9 Pro Bowls in 17 years

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. You asked a question, I answered it using some data. And then Yudkin offered up even better data to allow me to give a more accurate answer. What happened to three other guys in a subjective process is about as irrelevant to the conversation as anything I can imagine.

Good point. I can see you're an intelligent man who is capable of offering a clear and well-thought-out position and then justifying it with substantial evidence. So I'll defer to your skillfully made argument. Clearly, Favre was a Pro Bowler for more than half his seasons in Green Bay, and is one of the best QBs of all time. After all, John Elway went to 9 Pro Bowls in 16 seasons. Check and Mate, BeaverCleaver. I am humbled.

 

[az_prof]

It is a huge assumption, but how many top 5 QB's over the past 20 years have left the game in the 20's because of injury? Can't think of many. Sure teams change starting QB's alot, but its usually over money or poor play. A healthy Rodgers is in GB for a long time.Steve Young probably had a couple decent years left if her didnt get his skull bounced off the turf a few to many times, but i can't think of any marquee guys careers ending short do to a major injury.

Don't get ahead of yourselves. A major injury can really change things quickly: just ask Palmer and the Bengals. A few years ago he was the top young fantasy QB of the next decade and while he is still playing, he is a shadow of his former self. I want to see Rodgers win a few more playoff games and at least one SB before I put him in the company of the other QBs being mentioned in this thread.