4 flying objects have been shot down over North America: “Spy balloons and UFOs up to no good” (1 Viewer)

[jamny]

The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is appalling. Can you guys really not tell that he's riffing on a post made by another poster?

Oh we can. He also believes there were explosives because someone told us there was. But doesn't believe it was of no danger depsite what someone told us

If their were explosives there is no way it could have been deemed safe. We all pick and choose what to believe.

Sure it could be deemed not to be an overall threat to national security and allowed to float. It seems it very much was deemed that.

OK, maybe not a threat to national security but if it did have some kind of self-destruct explosive on board and was detonated, even accidentally, it wouldn't have just evaporated the balloon and all the equipment onboard. All that would have come crashing down. That, to me, cannot be deemed safe.
Thankfully, everything went well enough and hopefully we learn from it and whatever technology and information we can get from it.

 

[Doug B]

If their were explosives there is no way it could have been deemed safe.

Why not?

Safe/unsafe was not a binary proposition. "Level of risk" was more likely on what evaluation was based.

 

[The General]

I'm enthused that people are ready to argue, ignore, put words into each others mouths. The Politics forum is missed.


edit.....oh and parsing words.

People are just chatting and speculating about a topic of the day.

 

[jamny]

If their were explosives there is no way it could have been deemed safe.

Why not?

Safe/unsafe was not a binary proposition. "Level of risk" was more likely on what evaluation was based.

I'll agree it was a "level of risk" thing. But we were told it never posed a risk. That cannot be said if their was a chance it carried explosives.
OK, going around in circles. I'm out.

 

[sho nuff]

The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is appalling. Can you guys really not tell that he's riffing on a post made by another poster?

Oh we can. He also believes there were explosives because someone told us there was. But doesn't believe it was of no danger depsite what someone told us

If their were explosives there is no way it could have been deemed safe. We all pick and choose what to believe.

Sure it could be deemed not to be an overall threat to national security and allowed to float. It seems it very much was deemed that.

OK, maybe not a threat to national security but if it did have some kind of self-destruct explosive on board and was detonated, even accidentally, it wouldn't have just evaporated the balloon and all the equipment onboard. All that would have come crashing down. That, to me, cannot be deemed safe.
Thankfully, everything went well enough and hopefully we learn from it and whatever technology and information we can get from it.

Well sure...though, that seems to be a reason to let it keep flying vs taking it down over land. Which they did...then took it down over water where it was no threat to American lives.

 

[Kanil]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

 

[JIslander]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

yes

 

[Faust]

Spy balloon part of a broader Chinese military surveillance operation, US intel sources say

 

[the moops]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

yes

Yes. This was #1 priority after making sure it wasn't a danger to national security or potential damage/injure structures or people

 

[fatness]

Strangely, people on the ground could listen in to the unencrypted talk between the pilots when the balloon was shot down if they had the right equipment and knew the right frequency. https://apnews.com/article/china-balloon-audio-1cff760166c6ed894c71815b0fa6825d

A group of aviation enthusiasts was, instead, intently scanning radio frequencies for the exchanges between the pilots who would follow as Huntress, NORAD’s eastern air defense sector controller, tracked the exact distance as two Air Force F-22 fighter jets closed in on the target.

The pilots had to balance striking the balloon when it was at least six miles (10 kilometers) offshore — the distance NASA had advised the military allow to keep debris from falling on land — with ensuring it was still in U.S. territorial airspace.

Pilots had to wait until the balloon was 6 miles offshore before shooting (due to possible debris spread) and had to down it in US territorial waters.

 

[Chemical X]

Spy balloon part of a broader Chinese military surveillance operation, US intel sources say

wait till they find out why every strip center in the u.s. has a chinese take out joint……every one having the identical menu.

 

[Miss Piggy]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

Except the missal we shot it with blew it up into pieces spread across 7 football fields worth. So tomatoe tomato.

 

[Runkle]

Except the missal we shot it with blew it up into pieces spread across 7 football fields worth

Pretty powerful book

 

[the moops]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

Except the missal we shot it with blew it up into pieces spread across 7 football fields worth. So tomatoe tomato.

 

[Chemical X]

kiss under the missaltoe

 

[3C's]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

Except the missal we shot it with blew it up into pieces spread across 7 football fields worth. So tomatoe tomato.

The missile hit above the payload and the payload was mostly intact as it began descent.

 

[The Z Machine]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

Except the missal we shot it with blew it up into pieces spread across 7 football fields worth. So tomatoe tomato.

The missile hit above the payload and the payload was mostly intact as it began descent.

They should have caught it in a big net as the payload fell or wrapped some of those big air pillows you get in the Amazon box around it so it wouldn't wreck itself as it hit the water.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

In all seriousness- I’m surprised we didn’t or don’t have the ability to use a drone to accomplish that mission. I find that both alarming and reassuring at the same time.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Have not read the whole thread but has it been floated that the possible reason we waited until it was over water was because we wanted to recover/inspect it and maybe crashing into the ground would break **** beyond recognition?

Except the missal we shot it with blew it up into pieces spread across 7 football fields worth. So tomatoe tomato.

The missile hit above the payload and the payload was mostly intact as it began descent.

They should have caught it in a big net as the payload fell or wrapped some of those big air pillows you get in the Amazon box around it so it wouldn't wreck itself as it hit the water.

Why don't they just make the balloon out of the same material that they use to make the black box?

 

[3C's]

In all seriousness- I’m surprised we didn’t or don’t have the ability to use a drone to accomplish that mission. I find that both alarming and reassuring at the same time.

Which mission? Take it down? Don't know of military drones that fly that high.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

In all seriousness- I’m surprised we didn’t or don’t have the ability to use a drone to accomplish that mission. I find that both alarming and reassuring at the same time.

Which mission? Take it down? Don't know of military drones that fly that high.

Yep. Just looked it up and read that ~33k ft is about the limit. Air gets too thin for the propellers to support the mass.

 

[3C's]

In all seriousness- I’m surprised we didn’t or don’t have the ability to use a drone to accomplish that mission. I find that both alarming and reassuring at the same time.

Which mission? Take it down? Don't know of military drones that fly that high.

Yep. Just looked it up and read that ~33k ft is about the limit. Air gets too thin for the propellers to support the mass.

There is a "stratospheric" drone made by Airbus that can go higher but it's intent is communications (so they say).

https://www.airbus.com/en/products-services/defence/uas/uas-solutions/zephyr

 

[Doug B]

Chinese spy balloon contained technology to monitor communication signals, US says (CNN, 2/9/2023)

A good detailed read that fills in a few more details.

The Biden administration has determined that the suspected Chinese surveillance balloon that traversed the United States last week was operating with electronic surveillance technology capable of monitoring US communications, according to a senior State Department official.

The balloon “was capable of conducting signals intelligence collection operations” and was part of a fleet that had flown over “more than 40 countries across five continents.”

“We know the PRC used these balloons for surveillance,” the official said. “High resolution imagery from U-2 flybys revealed that the high-altitude balloon was capable of conducting signals intelligence collection operations.”

Signals intelligence refers to information that is gathered by electronic means – things like communications and radars.

...

The officials told lawmakers that the US has assessed that little new intelligence was gleaned by the Chinese balloon operation because the Chinese appeared to stop transmitting information once the US learned of the balloon, in addition to US measures to protect sensitive intelligence from China’s spying operations, according to the sources.

...

Another source familiar with the briefings said officials said the balloon would give the Chinese better photos and signals collection than satellites, as well as a better ability to steer and hover longer over collection targets.

...

“We know these balloons are all part of a PRC fleet of balloons developed to conduct surveillance operations. These kinds of activities are often undertaken at the direction of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA),” the senior State Department official added.

Still, lawmakers were told Thursday that the order to send the balloon was dispatched by a part of the Chinese government without Xi Jinping’s knowledge, sources familiar with the briefing said. It’s still unclear what the motivation was.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Japanese balloon bombs landed in North America 1944-45 (historian Mark Felton)

Not especially effective but still a fascinating story.

 

[Doug B]

I thought this guy over on Metabunk had a good take about the "why?" of the balloon, especially as it concerns the PLA perhaps working independently of China's government:

Something to consider when asking, "What sense does it make"? It might make little to no sense in a purely military or technical sense. It may be the pet project of an influential person. Or it may be a purely make-work project that has grown organically over the years from bureaucratic empire building.


Empire building is the pursuit to enlarge the size, scope, and influence of an individual or organization's power with little or no utility other than power for its own sake.

Not mutually exclusive things of course.

Empire Building happens anywhere, from within families to governments. It reaches its pinnacle in authoritarian governments with a Strongman leader. And China has such a government. In Nazi Germany for instance there were numerous more or less rouge wonder weapon programs that were trying to catch the attention of Hitler and please his irrational whims. The purpose was not to win the war but to enlarge the size and influence of the organization. With that of course comes all the biases, daydreams and rationalizations of pet projects or make-work projects.

 

[culdeus]

Anyone have the final overall flight path this thing took?

 

[The General]

Anyone have the final overall flight path this thing took?

Link

 

[Doug B]

Anyone have the final overall flight path this thing took?

To my surprise, there's no official final flight path in the press. It might come out eventually.

For now, Statista did a solid mapping of the flight path based on ground sightings and other information. (EDIT: The General just linked to this, too)

This map came out on Reddit last Friday, and ended up being almost exactly in line with the Statista map.

 

[kupcho1]

How is this not a political thread but the Nordstream 2 one is???

 

[rockaction]

"In Nazi Germany for instance there were numerous more or less rouge wonder weapon programs"

and lavender weapon programs, and chartreuse wonder weapon programs...

 

[fatness]

How is this not a political thread but the Nordstream 2 one is???

This is a news thread, frequently updated with more news.
There was no news in the Nordstream topic, just anonymous accusations by a writer given to conspiratorial thinking.

 

[The General]

How is this not a political thread but the Nordstream 2 one is???

We'll see where the wind takes us.

 

[Van Dyman]

If only there were a place for FBGs to talk about such things...

Didn't you guys do a Discord or reddit chat or something? It would seem the regulars should have migrated there.

Sorry to cross post from here, but yes he did and it's very nice. Would love to see you there if you want the info.

 

[Doug B]

"In Nazi Germany for instance there were numerous more or less rouge wonder weapon programs"

and lavender weapon programs, and chartreuse wonder weapon programs...

Sic burn

 

[rockaction]

Sorry to cross post from here, but yes he did and it's very nice. Would love to see you there if you want the info.

Thanks, man. I think my blood pressure has lowered with my involvement with the PSF now no longer extant.

That's not a snip or a cut or anything about the discussion or people there. It's the actual substantive topics that do it, and there's no avoiding it for me.

I'll send a PM should I change my mind. Is that cool?

 

[Van Dyman]

Sorry to cross post from here, but yes he did and it's very nice. Would love to see you there if you want the info.

Thanks, man. I think my blood pressure has lowered with my involvement with the PSF now no longer extant.

That's not a snip or a cut or anything about the discussion or people there. It's the actual substantive topics that do it, and there's no avoiding it for me.

I'll send a PM should I change my mind. Is that cool?

Certainly.

 

[fatness]

Update on balloon. Most of the hardware they're looking for is still on the bottom of the ocean.

"The US flatly contradicted China’s version of events, saying that imagery of the balloon collected by American U-2 spy planes as it crossed the country showed that it was “capable of conducting signals intelligence collection” with multiple antennas and other equipment designed to upload sensitive information and solar panels to power them. Jedidiah Royal, the US assistant defence secretary for the Indo-Pacific, told a Senate Appropriations subcommittee that the military has “some very good guesses” about what intelligence China was seeking. More information was expected to be provided in a classified setting.

Senior FBI officials who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the bureau said just a few pieces of the balloon had arrived at the FBI’s Quantico, Virginia, lab for investigation. So far, investigators have parts of the balloon canopy, wiring, and what one official called “a very small amount of electronics.” The official said it was “very early for us to assess what the intent was and how the device was operating.”

According to two US officials, the balloon recovery efforts were temporarily suspended on Thursday due to high seas. They said some balloon debris was intact on the ocean floor and divers had recovered potentially high-value equipment over the past day and a half.

Much of the debris is concentrated in two separate sections of an area 15 football fields long and 15 fields across, according to the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the collection process.

 

[kupcho1]

How is this not a political thread but the Nordstream 2 one is???

This is a news thread, frequently updated with more news.
There was no news in the Nordstream topic, just anonymous accusations by a writer given to conspiratorial thinking.

Nonsense. The first post linked to an article from Newsweek, not Newsmax. Newsweek is a reputable source of news. Moreover, the second paragraph of the article contained the following:

The report—"How America Took Out the Nord Stream Pipeline"—was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh

Are you familiar with the Pulitzer prize? The Pulitzer Prize administration awards prizes across 22 categories in journalism and the arts each year.

Also, there was absolutely no political discussion in the thread when it was deleted. Simply jokes and references to Joe locking the thread. Which he did. The only political statement I've seen so far is yours. Alluding to Hersh as a conspiratorial thinker might have been handy for the Nixon administration seeing as how he "first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting." Watergate, bombing Cambodia, Abu Ghraib; we could have kept this all under the rug. Who knew?

This is helpful going forward. If I see something I don't agree with I can accuse the poster or source of being a conspiracy theorist and eliminate the thread. Nicely done!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

How is this not a political thread but the Nordstream 2 one is???

This is a news thread, frequently updated with more news.
There was no news in the Nordstream topic, just anonymous accusations by a writer given to conspiratorial thinking.

Nonsense. The first post linked to an article from Newsweek, not Newsmax. Newsweek is a reputable source of news. Moreover, the second paragraph of the article contained the following:

The report—"How America Took Out the Nord Stream Pipeline"—was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh

Are you familiar with the Pulitzer prize? The Pulitzer Prize administration awards prizes across 22 categories in journalism and the arts each year.

Also, there was absolutely no political discussion in the thread when it was deleted. Simply jokes and references to Joe locking the thread. Which he did. The only political statement I've seen so far is yours. Alluding to Hersh as a conspiratorial thinker might have been handy for the Nixon administration seeing as how he "first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting." Watergate, bombing Cambodia, Abu Ghraib; we could have kept this all under the rug. Who knew?

This is helpful going forward. If I see something I don't agree with I can accuse the poster or source of being a conspiracy theorist and eliminate the thread. Nicely done!

If there's one thing we learned from our experiment with the PSF, it's that we would need to perm about 2/3 of the people posting in that forum if we wanted to have an adult conversation about any topic even adjacent to partisan politics. The sad fact is that a large chunk of our user base just isn't capable of engaging with these issues at a higher level than what you see in the recesses of twitter.

So yeah, technically you're right that this is a legitimate topic worthy of discussion. The people who flock to these threads just aren't the crew to have that discussion.

(It's worth noting that most of those posters disappeared after the PSF shut down. I take that as a strong endorsement for the view that PSF was no longer quarantining those folks from the rest of the site, but was instead keeping them around. You were bright enough not be a regular over there, and you may have lost track of how bad it had gotten.)

 

[dickey moe]

How is this not a political thread but the Nordstream 2 one is???

This is a news thread, frequently updated with more news.
There was no news in the Nordstream topic, just anonymous accusations by a writer given to conspiratorial thinking.

You mean the writer who exposed My Lai and Abu Ghraib? That guy?

 

[higgins]

‘It just rang’: In crises, US-China hotline goes unanswered​

 

[AAABatteries]

RIP spy balloon thread - you were always destined to be blown up like the balloon itself.

 

[The General]

How is this not a political thread but the Nordstream 2 one is???

This is a news thread, frequently updated with more news.
There was no news in the Nordstream topic, just anonymous accusations by a writer given to conspiratorial thinking.

Nonsense. The first post linked to an article from Newsweek, not Newsmax. Newsweek is a reputable source of news. Moreover, the second paragraph of the article contained the following:

The report—"How America Took Out the Nord Stream Pipeline"—was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh

Are you familiar with the Pulitzer prize? The Pulitzer Prize administration awards prizes across 22 categories in journalism and the arts each year.

Also, there was absolutely no political discussion in the thread when it was deleted. Simply jokes and references to Joe locking the thread. Which he did. The only political statement I've seen so far is yours. Alluding to Hersh as a conspiratorial thinker might have been handy for the Nixon administration seeing as how he "first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting." Watergate, bombing Cambodia, Abu Ghraib; we could have kept this all under the rug. Who knew?

This is helpful going forward. If I see something I don't agree with I can accuse the poster or source of being a conspiracy theorist and eliminate the thread. Nicely done!

If there's one thing we learned from our experiment with the PSF, it's that we would need to perm about 2/3 of the people posting in that forum if we wanted to have an adult conversation about any topic even adjacent to partisan politics. The sad fact is that a large chunk of our user base just isn't capable of engaging with these issues at a higher level than what you see in the recesses of twitter.

So yeah, technically you're right that this is a legitimate topic worthy of discussion. The people who flock to these threads just aren't the crew to have that discussion.

(It's worth noting that most of those posters disappeared after the PSF shut down. I take that as a strong endorsement for the view that PSF was no longer quarantining those folks from the rest of the site, but was instead keeping them around. You were bright enough not be a regular over there, and you may have lost track of how bad it had gotten.)

The PSF was decent if you used the block feature, just ignored stuff you didn’t want to read, got people‘s shtick, or simply accepted that people sometimes just want to vent or :gasp: troll a bit.

In any case it’s nuked from orbit.

This balloon thread has been one of the most viewed thread for awhile now and has had plenty of good content.

 

[jamny]

So it seems as if the balloon might have been used more as a listening device. Makes sense that it would need to be at a lower altitude than a satellite.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So it seems as if the balloon might have been used more as a listening device. Makes sense that it would need to be at a lower altitude than a satellite.

Pay for your own Spotify, jerkwads!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So it seems as if the balloon might have been used more as a listening device. Makes sense that it would need to be at a lower altitude than a satellite.

Somewhere in the northeast, Belichick is making notes.

 

[The General]

So it seems as if the balloon might have been used more as a listening device. Makes sense that it would need to be at a lower altitude than a satellite.

Pay for your own Spotify, jerkwads!

I would love to hear more from the people in SC right before it blew up. Those vids were great

 

[dickey moe]

Now another high altitude object shot down over Alaskan waters...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Now another high altitude object shot down over Alaskan waters...

Andrei, you've lost ANOTHER submarine?

 

[fatness]

The US only developed a method of tracking these balloons within the last year, which are why the earlier incursions were not noticed by the military during the last administration.

In 2021, a Chinese spy balloon briefly transited the continental United States, as administration officials have acknowledged. Afterwards, the intelligence community ran some of the balloon’s signals through the US’ intelligence holdings and other data to see where and when they may have popped up in the past. The findings have allowed the US to develop a consistent technical method for the first time that they have used to track the balloons in near-real time across the globe, the sources said.

Officials were also able to use the information collected from the earlier balloon alongside other sources to discover that similar surveillance balloons had transited US territory undetected at least three times