Mario Kart
Footballguy
WTF?
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86% of strident conservatives think the poor "have it easy" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigSteelThrill
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
It is all subjective. Compared to those in America that are not poor, sure, it is a much harder life.
Compared to most of the world's poor- hell yea, they have it easy. Anyone that has done any amount of work with poor people from other countries or taken the time to learn or listen from sources that know this easily understand this.
Heck, compared to rich people in the Thirteenth Century American poor have a better life.
Now, here is the thing.... if you want to throw out percentages of what conservatives think about poor, then you should also put in some work on percentages of how conservatives outshine liberals in donations (both time and money) to helping the poor (both American and foreign). I think some people who are appalled about this subject matter may be shocked at what they find.
Compared to most of the world's poor- hell yea, they have it easy. Anyone that has done any amount of work with poor people from other countries or taken the time to learn or listen from sources that know this easily understand this.
Heck, compared to rich people in the Thirteenth Century American poor have a better life.
Now, here is the thing.... if you want to throw out percentages of what conservatives think about poor, then you should also put in some work on percentages of how conservatives outshine liberals in donations (both time and money) to helping the poor (both American and foreign). I think some people who are appalled about this subject matter may be shocked at what they find.
I realize you are just having fun with it, but this type of misleading journalism is terrible and that is what you should be mocking here.WTF?
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Chadstroma said:
For all the talk liberals give about helping...they really don't put their money where there mouth is. It's all about platitudes and patting each other on the back.
They want to "help" people, but with your money, not theirs.
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Hooper31
Footballguy
.003$ of 314 million is about 9420. That's an enormous sample size given proper random sampling techniques.amphibianbri said:
Most people aren't aware that random sampling of any population can make what feels like a small sample size adequate. In my experience the problem is that claims of random sampling are made but aren't valid. All the people that weren't authentically eligible to be randomly selected aren't part of the population.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Conservatives seem to give more, but the difference also appears to be almost entirely attributable to what people donate to their church. The same analytic techniques that shows conservative give more (and it's all state level analysis) also suggests that Utah is about 33% more charitable than any other state. I guess they just really care about the poor in Utah.Chadstroma said:
For all the talk liberals give about helping...they really don't put their money where there mouth is. It's all about platitudes and patting each other on the back.
They want to "help" people, but with your money, not theirs.
Or there is something else going on.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
A capitalist machine needs a good chunk of the population to be unemployed to keep labor costs low. There will always be poor until that system is changed.ROCKET said:
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Did you read the question. It nowhere near says what the article says. But keep peddling blatant BS.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
No it doesnt. It needs skilled well paid people to operate the machines that digAnd regardless there arent enough ditch digger jobs to go around.
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MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Agree w/this. I've never once in my life seen a call for ditch diggers. Think ol' Ted was talking out of his butt on this one.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
I know that. I was talking about menial labor in general which there isnt much of it to go around, its not a full time job or it goes to illegal immigrants.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Having been a die hard conservative until around seven years ago, I understand the point of view that yes there are a lot worse places to be poor in the world than in the US.
But so what? That doesn't make it a diserable position to be in at all. It sucks to be poor, and while it's true that there are people in the world in worse positions, it's a truth that has absolutely no benefit to being discussed.
It's like pointing out to a family of four that just became a family of three because one of their kids died, "Well, you could be in a worse position if BOTH your kids had died." While true, the correct response to that truth is "#### YOU!!!"
And anyone, conservative or whatever, who feels the need to point out that there are worse ways to be poor, should be given the same response. #### YOU!!!
But so what? That doesn't make it a diserable position to be in at all. It sucks to be poor, and while it's true that there are people in the world in worse positions, it's a truth that has absolutely no benefit to being discussed.
It's like pointing out to a family of four that just became a family of three because one of their kids died, "Well, you could be in a worse position if BOTH your kids had died." While true, the correct response to that truth is "#### YOU!!!"
And anyone, conservative or whatever, who feels the need to point out that there are worse ways to be poor, should be given the same response. #### YOU!!!
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
The democratic and republican part are run by the same people. The entire system is a farce so I dont discuss it. I feel bad for people who fall for it and argue about it and have been fooled in to thinking they actually have a choice.
timschochet
Footballguy
The poll appears to have been bogus. That being said, I believe the conservatives, as a general rule, who are justifiably concerned about government spending, waste far too much time narrowly focusing in on how much poor people receive. The vast majority of government spending goes to defense or entitlement programs for the middle class, not to mention corporate subsidies. Poor people, by comparison, receive a pretty small amount of the government pie, yet sometimes it seems that they're all conservatives talk about.
Socrates11
Footballguy
Clearly the answer is to tax the middle class more.
timschochet
Footballguy
The middle class is never taxed to pay for poor people. We are taxed to pay for middle class people, defense spending, and corporations.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I know them when I see them. They don't receive welfare or food stamps, but they do receive Medicare, Social Security, and their kids get free access to public education at pretty decent schools. The cost of these overwhelm the amount of money we spend on the poor and make the latter relatively irrelevant.
The nation would be better off without political parties, but I highly doubt that will happen.
Any yet despite your broad sweeping caricature of conservatives, i am concerned with all spending. And on top of that, your facts are not very accurate. Federal welfare for the poor accounts for about $400 billion of spending. Yes it is less than the $820 billion spent on defense, but it is still very significant. And Defense spending and whatever you call corporate welfare, does not come any where close to being the vast majority of our $3.6 Trillion of spending. Please stop accepting all the spin from MSNBC as facts.
Now if only liberals cared about honesty....It isn't like such a poll could make the GOP look any worse than it does.
matuski
Footballguy
The Right is working hard to hand the liberals everything. I've said it a million times that I would be voting Republican if they would get rid of the crazies, unfortunately they keep digging deeper into the crazy.Now if only liberals cared about honesty....It isn't like such a poll could make the GOP look any worse than it does.
About as honest as it gets.
Boston
Footballguy
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
Lol
You call public education welfare for the middle class???? Have you never paid a property tax bill....
Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
How many of you have ever lived in poverty? Ever been homeless? There is nothing, and I mean nothing easy about being poor. It's just a ludicrous assumption.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Try to spin it however you would like, the truth is that conservatives tend to give more money and time to help those less fortunate than themselves (and plenty that do not have the means to give financially give their time anyways). Whether money is being given through a religious or non-religious organization to help those in need really does not matter to those getting the help.Conservatives seem to give more, but the difference also appears to be almost entirely attributable to what people donate to their church. The same analytic techniques that shows conservative give more (and it's all state level analysis) also suggests that Utah is about 33% more charitable than any other state. I guess they just really care about the poor in Utah.Chadstroma said:
For all the talk liberals give about helping...they really don't put their money where there mouth is. It's all about platitudes and patting each other on the back.
They want to "help" people, but with your money, not theirs.
Or there is something else going on.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
People only notice the people abusing the system that are buying cable, cars, jewelry etc
They dont notice the genuinely poor people they step over on the way to work each day.
American poor have access to more neccesities but are toilets, electricity and food rrally considered luxeries?
They dont notice the genuinely poor people they step over on the way to work each day.
American poor have access to more neccesities but are toilets, electricity and food rrally considered luxeries?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I have.
Starting out in life I was in a middle class family. From early teens through into adulthood that was severely degraded to well below the poverty line which included my mother working a full time job plus several additional jobs just to literally keep a roof over our heads. For some reasons I dont think are relevant to this discussion, I left home at 17 years of age. After staying with a friend for a while they finally had to have me leave because there was no room. I did not find a place to stay and was homeless for a night. Thankfully a family I knew heard about my situation and invited me to live with them and thus my homelessness ended with that one night. I have personally known how it is to literally not have any food to eat until the next day when your parent gets paid. Luckily for me, I have been able to get out of that and now with my wife would be considered upper middle class. To this day though my sister and mother still struggle under the poverty line and I help them when I can.
I have volunteered time working in various ways here in America. One of my favorite charities is Children's Hunger Fund which helps both poor in American and over seas. I have also traveled and worked with the poor from other nations. I have also had friends who have done the same in other parts of the world and seen their pictures and heard their stories. I have a father in law who grew up poor in the Philippines. What I have seen and heard from what the poor of many parts of the world struggle through makes my struggles and those of my family members to this day pale in comparison.
Like I said before. It is all subjective. If you compare the American poor with the middle class or rich- yup, it sucks and it is rough. If you compare the American poor with that of many other nations around the world, they DO have it easy.
And yes, I am a Republican. And yes, I am conservative. And yes, I do give my time and money not only to those I know but those I don't that are less fortunate than myself. This is all a bunch of propaganda to further the agenda of a particular ideology and party that wins when they can divide people and make monsters of those people that are not.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Yeah I've never seen a liberal person in San Francisco give any help to the poor.Try to spin it however you would like, the truth is that conservatives tend to give more money and time to help those less fortunate than themselves (and plenty that do not have the means to give financially give their time anyways). Whether money is being given through a religious or non-religious organization to help those in need really does not matter to those getting the help.Conservatives seem to give more, but the difference also appears to be almost entirely attributable to what people donate to their church. The same analytic techniques that shows conservative give more (and it's all state level analysis) also suggests that Utah is about 33% more charitable than any other state. I guess they just really care about the poor in Utah.Chadstroma said:
For all the talk liberals give about helping...they really don't put their money where there mouth is. It's all about platitudes and patting each other on the back.
They want to "help" people, but with your money, not theirs.
Or there is something else going on.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
America was founded to set a better example for the world. Those things should not be considered luxeries.
People get up set because "their tax dollars are supporting the poor. If poverty were completely eliminated do you think the cretins in washington would lower your taxes?
They wouldnt and would just waste the mpney on something else, like eroding your freedom further.
jonessed
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
While I am not in possession of the statistics to either prove or disprove the assertion that conservatives give more money to help "those less fortunate than themselves", I do think that any legitimate analysis of the issue has to control for the fact that giving to your church doesn't mean that those dollars are going to provide assistance to help the needy and less fortunate. I would imagine that the majority of those dollars are being spent for other purposes. I would also think an analysis of the issue would also need to control for charitable giving to organizations that do not exist for the purpose of serving the needy (e.g., supporting the local symphony, ballet, etc.).Try to spin it however you would like, the truth is that conservatives tend to give more money and time to help those less fortunate than themselves (and plenty that do not have the means to give financially give their time anyways). Whether money is being given through a religious or non-religious organization to help those in need really does not matter to those getting the help.Conservatives seem to give more, but the difference also appears to be almost entirely attributable to what people donate to their church. The same analytic techniques that shows conservative give more (and it's all state level analysis) also suggests that Utah is about 33% more charitable than any other state. I guess they just really care about the poor in Utah.Chadstroma said:
For all the talk liberals give about helping...they really don't put their money where there mouth is. It's all about platitudes and patting each other on the back.
They want to "help" people, but with your money, not theirs.
Or there is something else going on.
