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'98 Vikings / '99 Rams / '04 Colts.... (1 Viewer)

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

:eek:

The next unstoppable offense.

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?

 

AnonymousBob

Footballguy
Adding a rookie TE would make them an unstoppable offense? It usually takes those guys a couple seasons to get with the flow of things.

 

fridayfrenzy

Footballguy
Last time I checked...if your RB is getting tackled before he gets to the LOS, then you are not going to have an unstoppable offense.

 

Mr. Vegas

Footballguy
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

:eek:

The next unstoppable offense.

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?
Fantasy wise, your correct.NFL wise, now we all know why your not in the NFL. :wall:

They need to stop teams from scoring, NO? :rolleyes: :wall: :popcorn:

 

AnonymousBob

Footballguy
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

  :eek:

The next unstoppable offense. 

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?
Fantasy wise, your correct.NFL wise, now we all know why your not in the NFL. :wall:

They need to stop teams from scoring, NO? :rolleyes: :wall: :popcorn:
Why is he even correct for fantasy purposes? There's only so many points to be spread amongst their players.
 

Mr. Vegas

Footballguy
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

  :eek:

The next unstoppable offense. 

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?
Fantasy wise, your correct.NFL wise, now we all know why your not in the NFL. :wall:

They need to stop teams from scoring, NO? :rolleyes: :wall: :popcorn:
Why is he even correct for fantasy purposes? There's only so many points to be spread amongst their players.
:goodposting: :thumbup: :popcorn:
 

norseman9375

Footballguy
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

:eek:

The next unstoppable offense.

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?
The 98 Vikes O-line:LT-Steussie

LG-McDaniel

C-Christy

RG-Dixon

RT-Stringer

Until the Cards have something like that, your answer is no!

 

DrJ

Footballguy
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

  :eek:

The next unstoppable offense. 

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?
Fantasy wise, your correct.NFL wise, now we all know why your not in the NFL. :wall:

They need to stop teams from scoring, NO? :rolleyes: :wall: :popcorn:
Why is he even correct for fantasy purposes? There's only so many points to be spread amongst their players.
The Colts had no problems spreading the ball to not just 2, but 3 WR's and still made room for Edge.They were 4th worst in offensive TD's last season, yet the two WR's were both #1 FF producers.

There's plenty of room for improvement here.

 

Billy Ball Thorton

Footballguy
For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.

It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved. I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.

 

Gopher State

Footballguy
Last time I checked...if your RB is getting tackled before he gets to the LOS, then you are not going to have an unstoppable offense.

Very :goodposting:

 

perry147

Footballguy
For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.

It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved. I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.
Billy I really liked you in 'Monster Ball' but Arizona has had a new offensive line coach each year since Green got the job.The problem is not coaching - it is personal.

 

LHUCKS

Footballguy
All of the teams mentioned in the title of this thread had a superior O-Line, specifically run blocking line to Arizona's.

 

NYCelt

Footballguy
unstoppable? their offensive line is a sieve and a strong wind would probably give their QB a concussion
And they have less depth at the QB position than last year. If Warner is out a game or six, who is throwing the ball?
Joey Harrington I guess.
 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Adding a rookie TE would make them an unstoppable offense?  It usually takes those guys a couple seasons to get with the flow of things.
Have you seen this guy? Two months ago I saw a mock where Minnesota was going to take Vernon Davis and I was like, "Get the hell out of here, we already have Wiggins and Kleinsasser. This is a joke." The guy responded, "Maybe it isn't a good fit, but this kid is so good I just couldn't mock him any lower than 17."

I chewed on it for a while....

Then I saw him at the NFL Combine (NFL Channel) and this guy is unreal. To say he is the total package for a tightend would be an understatement.

 
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BlueOnion

Footballguy
Adding a rookie TE would make them an unstoppable offense?  It usually takes those guys a couple seasons to get with the flow of things.
Have you seen this guy? Two months ago I saw a mock where Minnesota was going to take Vernon Davis and I was like, "Get the hell out of here, we already have Wiggins and Kleinsasser. This is a joke." The guy responded, "Maybe it isn't a good fit, but this kid is so good I just couldn't mock him any lower than 17."

I chewed on it for a while....

Then I saw him at the NFL Combine (NFL Channel) and this guy is unreal. To say he is the total package for a tightend would be an understatement.
If I had to describe this guy to somebody who has never seen him, I would say;This guy wipes his butt with Shockey. He has all the tools of antonio Gates but the body of a John Riggins.

 

JMon348

Footballguy
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

  :eek:

The next unstoppable offense. 

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?
The 98 Vikes O-line:LT-Steussie

LG-McDaniel

C-Christy

RG-Dixon

RT-Stringer

Until the Cards have something like that, your answer is no!
:cry:

RIP BIG K

 
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Englishteacher

Footballguy
unstoppable? their offensive line is a sieve and a strong wind would probably give their QB a concussion
:goodposting: I'm thinking Green might go for Omar Jacobs.... seems like his type of player..... great athlete, good size, great arm ..... although he's proven to be a best player available type guy and is also content to stick where he's at and let the draft come to him.... meaning, if he's there, he's there.... I don't think he'll go out of his way to get himanyways.... if the Cards draft a semi decent QB prospect, I'm all over that guy in my keeper league....

with Fitz and Boldin plus Edge, that's enough skill players for some TD passes in my book.... If they draft the stud te in the first that would be wowsers although I think the other fella is right in that it might be a year before he's Antonio Gates .....

Right on Rudnicki!

 

Billy Ball Thorton

Footballguy
For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.

It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved.  I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.
Billy I really liked you in 'Monster Ball' but Arizona has had a new offensive line coach each year since Green got the job.The problem is not coaching - it is personal.
My point is things can change. To expect the same from last year is silly. If that was the case Football would be predictable, and it's not. This is why I love the game. The Cards oline for the first time have a RB they can be proud to block for. Mental mindset can go a long way. Im not saying they will be Elite but to expect them to be as bad as last year is nieve.

 

Englishteacher

Footballguy
For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.

It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved. I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.
I think we all as fantasy players / novice football fans are prone to throw out things we've heard and think we know like........... Arizona has a terrible O line..... which they did last year..... And I think it's naive to think, OK, my team is going to fix this problem and it's going to be fixed!

Well, Arizona invested heavily in the O line last year and it was bad.

Everyone gets excited about draft picks but when you look at what they've done after the year is over, they usually make small contributions if any. I read all about Elton Brown and some said he was great so you get excited about him. Well, TSN had him rated as a "fringe" player for this upcoming season and he has a year under his belt. I was careful to read the analysis of TSN on each and every draft pick from 2005, team by team, and I can tell you maybe 20% had anything very good to say. Take Robert Gallery for instance, he was a can't miss prospect and he's still not a stud yet. And, I think it's pretty safe to say Leonard Davis (and Mike Williams, since released by Buffalo before his rookie contract was up) had some folks really excited in his draft year and most would say from what we've seen he's unlikely to ever develop into an elite lineman.

Last year, the Cards inked Oliver Ross; the reviews pretty much say he didn''t add much. So far, the Cards have elected to retain Reggie Wells after he got an offer from.... (Cleveland?) somebody. Another marginal guy right? I don't know about any great O line guys having visited Arizona yet. They had some dough and a move for Hutchinson would have been great but you know the NFL is very competitive. I think I'd be a bit shocked to see Arizona sign a free agent OL guy who will have a 2006 that will end him up in the Pro Bowl. Not saying it can't happen.

In conclusion, I think we tend to both say something we've heard over and over again (I was one of the guys saying the O line was horrible) and readily accept it as fact when things could be different AND tend to overestimate team's abilities to improve. It takes a lot longer than we think most times to do something like: IMPROVE THEIR O LINE

So, the Cards could be a little better on the O line next year but I doubt you're going to be pleased. At least to the level of:

For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.

It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved. I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.

ONE MORE THING TO REMEMBER: The Rams had Orlando Pace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Cards have? Leonard Davis :shock: :P

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.

It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved. I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.
lots of teams "make moves to improve the O-line" every year. few of them ever seem to really work.
 

Sinrman

Footballguy
I can see the potential in AZ and it being an exciting offense. But like the '98 Vikings, '99 Rams, or '04 Colts? Errr, no... don't see that happening. As many have pointed out, they have a lot of work to do on OL first. If they can give Warner at least a LITTLE time to throw, or their RBs a LITTLE time to find a hole, then anything is possible.

 

Englishteacher

Footballguy
For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.

It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved.  I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.
Billy I really liked you in 'Monster Ball' but Arizona has had a new offensive line coach each year since Green got the job.The problem is not coaching - it is personal.
My point is things can change. To expect the same from last year is silly. If that was the case Football would be predictable, and it's not. This is why I love the game. The Cards oline for the first time have a RB they can be proud to block for. Mental mindset can go a long way. Im not saying they will be Elite but to expect them to be as bad as last year is nieve.
uhhh. that was weird, we both were posting at the same time and both used the word naive. At least maybe you spelled it right. :bag: Adding talent is difficult though..... caveat emptur

 

Billy Ball Thorton

Footballguy
For the people who continue to hang thier hat on a poor oline "you are ignorant" They have a new O-line coach and moves have and will be made to bring a better O-Linne in 06.It is possible to have a little foresight and see the line can/will be improved.  I'm sure your probably the same people crowing about how bad the Rams would be before they blew up.
Billy I really liked you in 'Monster Ball' but Arizona has had a new offensive line coach each year since Green got the job.

The problem is not coaching - it is personal.
My point is things can change. To expect the same from last year is silly. If that was the case Football would be predictable, and it's not. This is why I love the game.

The Cards oline for the first time have a RB they can be proud to block for. Mental mindset can go a long way. Im not saying they will be Elite but to expect them to be as bad as last year is nieve.
uhhh. that was weird, we both were posting at the same time and both used the word naive. At least maybe you spelled it right. :bag:

Adding talent is difficult though..... caveat emptur

[/quo

I appreciate the lenghty reply. I agree with many of your statements, and am in no way saying I expect the Cards O-line to be dominant. I just wish posters would consider the whole picture.
 

Bri

Footballguy
1.10 - Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

Warner (even though he's seen better days)

Edge

Davis

Boldin

Fitz

:eek:

The next unstoppable offense.

How can they possibly pass up Davis if he's there @ 10?
Green never had a special TE, nor did Warner
 
M

MLBrandow

Guest
I like how nobody in this thread has mentioned anything in detail about how an offensive line works.

The reason their tackles looked bad wasn't because they were bad, but because their guards by the end of the year were backup tackles themselves.

The line crumbled from the inside out. The entire OL isn't bad, just the guards. Both LG and RG have been replaced for this year with Elton and Milford Brown.

Between the two, over 120lbs of mass in the middle of the OL. That's a HUGE upgrade.

Especially when you're dealing with Edgerrin James.

Just remember though that you don't bring in 350lb linemen to pass block. They got these big guys and Edge to run the football. They have the perfect set of personnel this year to do that. A game manager in Warner, who won't be leaned on to win ball games, just to hand the ball off and not do stupid ####, two massive receivers that both command double coverage on any passing play, who are also very, very solid blockers. And now they have a running back who can shoulder a 2000 all purpose yard load.

I realize this is different from what Green has run in the past, but that's why the Cardinals will be good.

It's not because Warner is going to throw 30 TDs. Anyone who tells you that is wrong and ignorant. He'll be lucky to get 20 this year. But the yards will be there, and Edge is going to have a monster year.

I'm on the boat with everyone else that says James is a soft runner. That won't matter though because he's got the same thing going that he did in Indianapolis: light box defenses. Nobody can stack the line on the Cardinals now because they'll just hurl the ball at Fitz or Bolden.

But this team will be good, and while they won't make the playoffs, they'll still be in the hunt late in the season.

Also remember that they've got a new stadium this year and those new uniforms. Sometimes it's that psychological edge that boosts a team to that next level.

Seriously though, I agree with the few posters above, you all really need to lay off with the ignorant comments. Either research enough informatino to intelligibly discuss the matter, or don't bother acting like you know what you're talking about, because all this monkey read monkey repost stuff is silly.

 
I'm on the boat with everyone else that says James is a soft runner. That won't matter though because he's got the same thing going that he did in Indianapolis: light box defenses. Nobody can stack the line on the Cardinals now because they'll just hurl the ball at Fitz or Bolden.
When I think of "soft" runners, Edge is not one of the first that come to mind.
 

DoctorDetroit

Chocolate Thunder
I'm on the boat with everyone else that says James is a soft runner.  That won't matter though because he's got the same thing going that he did in Indianapolis:  light box defenses.  Nobody can stack the line on the Cardinals now because they'll just hurl the ball at Fitz or Bolden.
When I think of "soft" runners, Edge is not one of the first that come to mind.
:goodposting: Yeah, that is ridiculous.

 

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
And I think it's naive to think, OK, my team is going to fix this problem and it's going to be fixed! Well, Arizona invested heavily in the O line last year and it was bad.
I'm checking this thread for the first time since I started it. I could have quoted any of 15 "their O-line sucks and so does your post" quotes, but this one will do just fine.Do any of you think that maybe the offensive line won't HAVE to be as good blocking for Edge as they were when they had to block for the legendary tandem of Marcel Shipp and J.J. Arrington? Edge will get yards those other two slugs could only dream of. He won't hit the wrong hole, and he will break tackles. It should also be obvious how he will positively impact the passing game. Edge's acquisition will make everything else fall into place..... the O-line, not allowing defenses to gang up on the passing game, etc. Adding a weapon like Vernon Davis to this O would be insane.

A great RB can make an O-line look good; not just the other way around. Entering 2003 and 2004, San Diego's offensive line was ranked as one of the 3-5 WORST in the league. Think Tomlinson had a little bit to do with them being more than respectable?

Regarding the blasts on Warner. I think too many people can't get the image of Kurt Warner in a Giants uniform out of their head. I'll be the first to admit that he sucked HARD with New York. But in terms of putting a QB in the best position to be successful, I'll take a Denny Green QB over a Tom Coughlin QB 10 times out of 10. Warner's 2nd year in Green's system should yield some impressive numbers.

So THERE..... :P

 

norseman9375

Footballguy
I like how nobody in this thread has mentioned anything in detail about how an offensive line works.

The reason their tackles looked bad wasn't because they were bad, but because their guards by the end of the year were backup tackles themselves.

The line crumbled from the inside out. The entire OL isn't bad, just the guards. Both LG and RG have been replaced for this year with Elton and Milford Brown.

Between the two, over 120lbs of mass in the middle of the OL. That's a HUGE upgrade.

Especially when you're dealing with Edgerrin James.

Just remember though that you don't bring in 350lb linemen to pass block. They got these big guys and Edge to run the football. They have the perfect set of personnel this year to do that. A game manager in Warner, who won't be leaned on to win ball games, just to hand the ball off and not do stupid ####, two massive receivers that both command double coverage on any passing play, who are also very, very solid blockers. And now they have a running back who can shoulder a 2000 all purpose yard load.

I realize this is different from what Green has run in the past, but that's why the Cardinals will be good.

It's not because Warner is going to throw 30 TDs. Anyone who tells you that is wrong and ignorant. He'll be lucky to get 20 this year. But the yards will be there, and Edge is going to have a monster year.

I'm on the boat with everyone else that says James is a soft runner. That won't matter though because he's got the same thing going that he did in Indianapolis: light box defenses. Nobody can stack the line on the Cardinals now because they'll just hurl the ball at Fitz or Bolden.

But this team will be good, and while they won't make the playoffs, they'll still be in the hunt late in the season.

Also remember that they've got a new stadium this year and those new uniforms. Sometimes it's that psychological edge that boosts a team to that next level.

Seriously though, I agree with the few posters above, you all really need to lay off with the ignorant comments. Either research enough informatino to intelligibly discuss the matter, or don't bother acting like you know what you're talking about, because all this monkey read monkey repost stuff is silly.
I have a couple of questions and points.OL- Do you think being big makes someone a good lineman, or even a good run-blocking lineman? If that were true Aaron Gibson would be the highest paid lineman in the league. Milford Brown has started a total of 16 games in his 4 years with the Texans and Elton Brown is a 2nd year, 4th round draft pick, who started half the games last year for the Cardinals. What research did you do to make you decide that these two players are going to turn this O-Line into one of the better lines in the league? The only special player that the Cards have on the O-line is Davis, and he hasn't exactly lived up to expectations, especially at LT. At best the Cardinals will have an average line this year, but more likely they will have a below average line, and that will not allow them to be compared to the above listed teams.

Warner- If you think Warner will only throw for 20 TDs, how do you expect the Cards to be compared the above listed power-house offenses. Is "soft" James going to rush for 35 TDs?

James-How do you say James is a back capable of shouldering a 2000 yard load and call him soft in the same argument?

Research-You said that people should "research enough to intelligibly discuss the matter". So what facts or statistics did you provide to back your argument? Can you list any? Oh yeah, they have a new stadium and new uniforms. Well in that case I have to concede to you sir. What was I thinking? :bag:

 
A great RB can make an O-line look good; not just the other way around. Entering 2003 and 2004, San Diego's offensive line was ranked as one of the 3-5 WORST in the league. Think Tomlinson had a little bit to do with them being more than respectable?
Think the signing of Lorenzo Neal in 2003 helped that?
 

softball

Footballguy
Adding a rookie TE would make them an unstoppable offense?  It usually takes those guys a couple seasons to get with the flow of things.
Have you seen this guy? Two months ago I saw a mock where Minnesota was going to take Vernon Davis and I was like, "Get the hell out of here, we already have Wiggins and Kleinsasser. This is a joke." The guy responded, "Maybe it isn't a good fit, but this kid is so good I just couldn't mock him any lower than 17."

I chewed on it for a while....

Then I saw him at the NFL Combine (NFL Channel) and this guy is unreal. To say he is the total package for a tightend would be an understatement.
Blue, I'm a Maryland guy. Went to 3 games this year because a friend plays on the O'line.Davis is beyond anything you have even been seeing on the recent clips. His game speed and to me game DESIRE are even better.

If you liked Heath Miller last year to be a impact rookie(he was somewhat) then Davis is your next Jeremy Shockey kinda rookie.

I do hope he goes someplace they use him ASAP

 
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GreedoShotFirst

Footballguy
Adding a rookie TE would make them an unstoppable offense? It usually takes those guys a couple seasons to get with the flow of things.
Have you seen this guy? Two months ago I saw a mock where Minnesota was going to take Vernon Davis and I was like, "Get the hell out of here, we already have Wiggins and Kleinsasser. This is a joke." The guy responded, "Maybe it isn't a good fit, but this kid is so good I just couldn't mock him any lower than 17."

I chewed on it for a while....

Then I saw him at the NFL Combine (NFL Channel) and this guy is unreal. To say he is the total package for a tightend would be an understatement.
Blue, I'm a Maryland guy. Went to 3 games this year because a friend plays on the O'line.Davis is beyond anything you have even been seeing on the recent clips. His game speed and to me game DESIRE are even better.

If you liked Heath Miller last year to be a impact rookie(he was somewhat) then Davis is your next Jeremy Shockey kinda rookie.

I do hope he goes someplace they use him ASAP
agreed. The kid is an absolute beast. He grades out higher than Heath Miller, Shockey, the soldier, any of them. I really believe that he will have a Gates like impact in the NFL.
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
Adding a rookie TE would make them an unstoppable offense? It usually takes those guys a couple seasons to get with the flow of things.
Does it? When I read this I stopped and thought about it and couldn't really decide if I thought that was the case or not.At work so don't have time to do something thorough, but I thought I'd give it an initial, quick-glance sort of test. I went to NFL.com and grabbed the top few most recent TEs (Gonzo, Gates, Heap, Shockey, Crumpler), and then went to pro-football-reference.com and just scrolled through the career numbers and grabbed a few obviously top historical TEs (first ones I came to, plus Winslow). I looked at when they first had a big season (which I defined as around 650 or more yards receiving).

Immediate studs in year 1: Ditka and Shockey

Studs in year 2, which was the first year they started: Kellen Winslow, Heap, and Gonzo

Studs in year 2 (second year as starter): Bavaro and Gates. The fact Gates didn't play football until the NFL kind of makes him an odd data point though.

Studs in year 4: Crumpler and Coates.

Todd Christensen's numbers looked funky enough I questioned if the data set might be erroneous on him, so I left him out.

In any event, this quick glance isn't conclusive by any means, but I think it does leave some room for doubt in the original statement. 5 of the 9 TEs I looked at were studs in their first year of starting, 2 of which were their rookie year.

 

packersfan

Footballguy
Why does this sound like Detroit last season?
Three significant ones IMO:1. Edge is light years beyond Kevin Jones.

2. Boldin and Fitz are proven WRs with track records. Williams, Rogers and Williams were essentially upside plays (Roy Williams less than the other two but even he wasn't proven)

3. I'm not sold on Warner but he is light years beyond Harrington at QB.

I don't know how good the Cardinals' offense is going to be. I don't believe Warner can hold up physically; I question the offensive line play which leads me to question how productive Edge will be. Right now I've downgraded him to the lower part of the Top 10 among RBs mainly due to my questions about his TD output. If the line doesn't improve and Edge can't run then we could see more of what we saw last season with Boldin and Fitz being the dominant fantasy producers. I actually feel better about them than I do about Edge at this point in time.

Oh, and I agree Davis is an absolute beast. The Packers are reportedly showing some interest in him as well. I think it will be very difficult for Thompson to pass on a defensive player with the fifth pick but Davis is pretty damn intriguing.

 

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