A call to arms... (1 Viewer)

[JamesTheScot]

I may be accused of posting in the wrong forum, but I think this forum needs to flex its muscles.

When in the hell is FBG's going to parse out safeties from corners and ends from tackles in draft dominator?

I mean what the hell!?! It's obviously doable since WR's and TE's can be combined or separated. Why do we IDP'ers keep getting put off?

It is seriously to the point that I am considering not subscribing next year. It's ####### ridiculous.

Am I alone here? Maybe we should band together and not subscribe anymore. What else is there to do? Obviously FBG's takes our patronage for granted.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I don't use draft dominator or know what it is.

but I'd like to get my kool-aid ridley account green lighted so I can switch over.

 

[Tick]

They've got the best IDP content out there. That's good enough for me.

 

[Freedonia]

I may be accused of posting in the wrong forum, but I think this forum needs to flex its muscles.When in the hell is FBG's going to parse out safeties from corners and ends from tackles in draft dominator? I mean what the hell!?! It's obviously doable since WR's and TE's can be combined or separated. Why do we IDP'ers keep getting put off?It is seriously to the point that I am considering not subscribing next year. It's ####### ridiculous.Am I alone here? Maybe we should band together and not subscribe anymore. What else is there to do? Obviously FBG's takes our patronage for granted.

my league does not make a distinction between those positions but I understand your frustration as it does not seem like it should be that hard for football guys to fix this problem.

 

[JOBOOZOSO]

If you pay for anything, pay for writing style, not for content.

There are a gazillion free ways to organize rankings and tiers.

 

[GridironMenace]

FBG doesn't care about DD. Henderson hasn't updated that thing in years. If there isn't money in it, they are going to put it on the back burner. They don't even have a fully functional Mac version of DD, but yet they have an iPad app. You understand now?

 

[Jene Bramel]

We share your disappointment that the Draft Dominator is unable to separate CB/S and DE/DT and I know it's not always the most fantasy friendly tool for IDP owners. We'll continue to work to get that function included in the program. It was closer to happening this season than in previous seasons, but there are technical issues involved that are extensive. It would be simple to break out those positions if the primary use of the DD was as an organizational tool. Getting the calculations and algorithms to work correctly for the VBD part of the program -- it's major draw -- is a much bigger concern. With our other endeavors this offseason, it was felt that we would be unable to devote the time necessary to get it right.

That goes for adding the IDP functionality to the Rate-My-Team service, too, unfortunately.

I understand that it seems like we've ignored this concern for years. In truth, we've placed a high priority on it internally, especially among our IDP staff, and will continue to do so. I disagree that we've taken our IDP supporters and subscribers for granted, but I can certainly see how one might feel that way if DD functionality is at or near the top of their FBG IDP wish list.

 

[John 14:6]

I've been asking for this for years, then pretty much gave up.

 

[JamesTheScot]

We share your disappointment that the Draft Dominator is unable to separate CB/S and DE/DT and I know it's not always the most fantasy friendly tool for IDP owners. We'll continue to work to get that function included in the program. It was closer to happening this season than in previous seasons, but there are technical issues involved that are extensive. It would be simple to break out those positions if the primary use of the DD was as an organizational tool. Getting the calculations and algorithms to work correctly for the VBD part of the program -- it's major draw -- is a much bigger concern. With our other endeavors this offseason, it was felt that we would be unable to devote the time necessary to get it right.

That goes for adding the IDP functionality to the Rate-My-Team service, too, unfortunately.

I understand that it seems like we've ignored this concern for years. In truth, we've placed a high priority on it internally, especially among our IDP staff, and will continue to do so. I disagree that we've taken our IDP supporters and subscribers for granted, but I can certainly see how one might feel that way if DD functionality is at or near the top of their FBG IDP wish list.

What I know about code writing and programming you could fit in a thimble. But I can't understand how DD handles the interplay of RB's, WR's and TE's without a hitch, including the VBD impact, but yet separating out CB's from S's is this monumental task. If my league treats RB's, WR's and TE's as separate positions, or has different scoring for each (such as a PPR bonus for TE's), I basically press a couple of keys in the setup menu and voila, they are sorted by separate positions and then ranked relative to each other as different positions. If I go the other way, it combines them and does the VBD ranking treating them combined as one position.

So are you saying that programming that feature for the first time for any position is a big deal, but no different than when DD was programmed to be able to differentiate or integrate RB's, WR"s and TE's? If so, then what is the big deal? The platform obviously has the capacity because it's already being done. So we aren't exactly starting from scratch in that regard. Is it just a man hours thing? FBG's doesn't want to pay someone to write code?

Or are you saying that there is something unique to defensive players that makes programming this same feature somehow unique from how it works for RB's/WR's/TE's?

That's what's not making sense and is thus so frustrating. If DD can do it for RB's, WR's and TE's including their pesky complex VBD algorithms, then what's so hard about doing it for IDP's. Heck, it's already being done on the IDP side of things by parsing out DL's from LB's from DB's.

 

[JamesTheScot]

FBG doesn't care about DD. Henderson hasn't updated that thing in years. If there isn't money in it, they are going to put it on the back burner. They don't even have a fully functional Mac version of DD, but yet they have an iPad app. You understand now?

But that's my point in the OP. As subscribers, we have the means to make money a factor. If we complain but keep subscribing...why would they ever put us on the front burner? This platform expansion bias isn't a temporary condition. Rapid obsolescence and introduction of new platforms is here to stay and the speed at which it changes seems destined to increase, not decrease. If FBG's can't find the time (or money) to do it now, when will they ever?

 

[GridironMenace]

FBG doesn't care about DD. Henderson hasn't updated that thing in years. If there isn't money in it, they are going to put it on the back burner. They don't even have a fully functional Mac version of DD, but yet they have an iPad app. You understand now?

But that's my point in the OP. As subscribers, we have the means to make money a factor. If we complain but keep subscribing...why would they ever put us on the front burner?

There is a 0% chance that you'll organize enough people to stop their subscriptions that it will financially hit FBG hard enough that they break down and do a few things that should have been done years ago. I hate unions as much as the next guy that hates unions, but there's a reason that the only people that can get away with stuff like that are unions. Their members are forced to pay a membership that forces them into organization. There is no subscribers union here in FBGland, so just take it or leave it. Nothing you can do except keep pounding the pavement hoping someone listens.

 

[kurtrudder]

What I know about code writing and programming you could fit in a thimble. But I can't understand how DD handles the interplay of RB's, WR's and TE's without a hitch, including the VBD impact, but yet separating out CB's from S's is this monumental task.

If my league treats RB's, WR's and TE's as separate positions, or has different scoring for each (such as a PPR bonus for TE's), I basically press a couple of keys in the setup menu and voila, they are sorted by separate positions and then ranked relative to each other as different positions. If I go the other way, it combines them and does the VBD ranking treating them combined as one position.

So are you saying that programming that feature for the first time for any position is a big deal, but no different than when DD was programmed to be able to differentiate or integrate RB's, WR"s and TE's? If so, then what is the big deal? The platform obviously has the capacity because it's already being done. So we aren't exactly starting from scratch in that regard. Is it just a man hours thing? FBG's doesn't want to pay someone to write code?

Or are you saying that there is something unique to defensive players that makes programming this same feature somehow unique from how it works for RB's/WR's/TE's?

That's what's not making sense and is thus so frustrating. If DD can do it for RB's, WR's and TE's including their pesky complex VBD algorithms, then what's so hard about doing it for IDP's. Heck, it's already being done on the IDP side of things by parsing out DL's from LB's from DB's.

I think you summed it up right there, since you don't understand its then clearly reflected in your questions.DD ALREADY separates the offensive positions (RB/WR/TE), they are distinct positions. DB/LB/DL are distinct positions and DD is designed based on those positions. What you asking is to turn two positions (DL & DB) into four positions (DE, DT, CB, S)

I don't profess to understand code, programming or how that is applied to the complexities of VBD. But I comprehend that its complex, therefore what your asking for is not a simple thing to do but it feels like your assuming that it is.

I think your best to accept DD for what it is, a fine tool but seriously when it comes down to drafting DE, DT, CB, S, apply some common sense to the data the DD tool is already giving you. Use the myriad of other data sources at your finger tips in conjunction with DD. If you cannot draft without following DD to the enth degree, then that should be identified part of the problem isn't it?

 

[Shane Falco]

What I know about code writing and programming you could fit in a thimble. But I can't understand how DD handles the interplay of RB's, WR's and TE's without a hitch, including the VBD impact, but yet separating out CB's from S's is this monumental task.

If my league treats RB's, WR's and TE's as separate positions, or has different scoring for each (such as a PPR bonus for TE's), I basically press a couple of keys in the setup menu and voila, they are sorted by separate positions and then ranked relative to each other as different positions. If I go the other way, it combines them and does the VBD ranking treating them combined as one position.

So are you saying that programming that feature for the first time for any position is a big deal, but no different than when DD was programmed to be able to differentiate or integrate RB's, WR"s and TE's? If so, then what is the big deal? The platform obviously has the capacity because it's already being done. So we aren't exactly starting from scratch in that regard. Is it just a man hours thing? FBG's doesn't want to pay someone to write code?

Or are you saying that there is something unique to defensive players that makes programming this same feature somehow unique from how it works for RB's/WR's/TE's?

That's what's not making sense and is thus so frustrating. If DD can do it for RB's, WR's and TE's including their pesky complex VBD algorithms, then what's so hard about doing it for IDP's. Heck, it's already being done on the IDP side of things by parsing out DL's from LB's from DB's.

I think you summed it up right there, since you don't understand its then clearly reflected in your questions.DD ALREADY separates the offensive positions (RB/WR/TE), they are distinct positions. DB/LB/DL are distinct positions and DD is designed based on those positions. What you asking is to turn two positions (DL & DB) into four positions (DE, DT, CB, S)

I don't profess to understand code, programming or how that is applied to the complexities of VBD. But I comprehend that its complex, therefore what your asking for is not a simple thing to do but it feels like your assuming that it is.

I think your best to accept DD for what it is, a fine tool but seriously when it comes down to drafting DE, DT, CB, S, apply some common sense to the data the DD tool is already giving you. Use the myriad of other data sources at your finger tips in conjunction with DD. If you cannot draft without following DD to the enth degree, then that should be identified part of the problem isn't it?

I still don't understand the need for DD. If you are serious enough to play with CBs and DTs why do you need software to tell you who to pick. The 2 things just seem counter to me

I always viewed DD as a crutch for people who don't really do their own work and need a program to tell them who to pick. Would take the whole fun of drafting away for me. Maybe that's not what people do with it cause I never have and probably never will use it. I'd rather win drafting for myself off my sheets.

 

[SKI]

I still don't understand the need for DD. If you are serious enough to play with CBs and DTs why do you need software to tell you who to pick. The 2 things just seem counter to me I always viewed DD as a crutch for people who don't really do their own work and need a program to tell them who to pick. Would take the whole fun of drafting away for me. Maybe that's not what people do with it cause I never have and probably never will use it. I'd rather win drafting for myself off my sheets.

Tracking and organization is a prime reason. I don't typically follow DD's suggestions but having the information, including my notes, right there is valuable. That is important whether you are doing a real-time draft (where speed is important) or an slow draft where I move between computers/locations and want to keep everything synced without carrying around paper.

 

[Raymell McKigney]

I still don't understand the need for DD. If you are serious enough to play with CBs and DTs why do you need software to tell you who to pick. The 2 things just seem counter to me I always viewed DD as a crutch for people who don't really do their own work and need a program to tell them who to pick. Would take the whole fun of drafting away for me. Maybe that's not what people do with it cause I never have and probably never will use it. I'd rather win drafting for myself off my sheets.

Tracking and organization is a prime reason. I don't typically follow DD's suggestions but having the information, including my notes, right there is valuable. That is important whether you are doing a real-time draft (where speed is important) or an slow draft where I move between computers/locations and want to keep everything synced without carrying around paper.

I would agree with SKI, this is about the limit of its use for me, more so in a real time draft but even so I doubt I will use it much this season.

 

[TheLem]

I still don't understand the need for DD. If you are serious enough to play with CBs and DTs why do you need software to tell you who to pick. The 2 things just seem counter to me I always viewed DD as a crutch for people who don't really do their own work and need a program to tell them who to pick. Would take the whole fun of drafting away for me. Maybe that's not what people do with it cause I never have and probably never will use it. I'd rather win drafting for myself off my sheets.

Tracking and organization is a prime reason. I don't typically follow DD's suggestions but having the information, including my notes, right there is valuable. That is important whether you are doing a real-time draft (where speed is important) or an slow draft where I move between computers/locations and want to keep everything synced without carrying around paper.

I would agree with SKI, this is about the limit of its use for me, more so in a real time draft but even so I doubt I will use it much this season.

I play with the OP in a 10 man 53 man roster dynasty contract league.DD is nothing more than an orginizational tool...not a help in deciding who to bid on other than knowing what positions and the number at that position other teams have. That, to us, is where DD has its value. We don't need help assessing whether or not to take Pettigrew or Celek.In our auction, it's about drawing other people out to spend their $$$...and having the positions broken down and seeing team need is vital.However, don't understimate our power...8 of the 10 guys in our league buy the subscription...but there is a way that we can buy 1 subscription as a league and take 7 paying customers out at once. when enough 12 man leagues figure that out...and footballguys goes from 10-12 subscribers in a league to 1...attention will be given.10 IDP leagues can potentially cost 28.95 x 90 owners no longer paying is over $2500...nothing to sneeze at....over 5 years that's close to $13K.I have to think that if you can separate DL, LB and DB the same process can be taken one step further and delineate cb from S.This is the only reason i subscribe here...TMI found in other sites to limit yourself to FBG.btw, I have alot of respect for Joe Bryant...a class act. It's just business.

 

[John 14:6]

I still don't understand the need for DD. If you are serious enough to play with CBs and DTs why do you need software to tell you who to pick. The 2 things just seem counter to me I always viewed DD as a crutch for people who don't really do their own work and need a program to tell them who to pick. Would take the whole fun of drafting away for me. Maybe that's not what people do with it cause I never have and probably never will use it. I'd rather win drafting for myself off my sheets.

Tracking and organization is a prime reason. I don't typically follow DD's suggestions but having the information, including my notes, right there is valuable. That is important whether you are doing a real-time draft (where speed is important) or an slow draft where I move between computers/locations and want to keep everything synced without carrying around paper.

I would agree with SKI, this is about the limit of its use for me, more so in a real time draft but even so I doubt I will use it much this season.

I also agree with SKI. For me it's a lot easier to just use my laptop instead of all the papers I'd have if I put together my own sheets. And at the end of the draft we have all the files we need from the DD for record keeping purposes.

 

[cr8f]

I still don't understand the need for DD. If you are serious enough to play with CBs and DTs why do you need software to tell you who to pick. The 2 things just seem counter to me I always viewed DD as a crutch for people who don't really do their own work and need a program to tell them who to pick. Would take the whole fun of drafting away for me. Maybe that's not what people do with it cause I never have and probably never will use it. I'd rather win drafting for myself off my sheets.

Tracking and organization is a prime reason. I don't typically follow DD's suggestions but having the information, including my notes, right there is valuable. That is important whether you are doing a real-time draft (where speed is important) or an slow draft where I move between computers/locations and want to keep everything synced without carrying around paper.

I've never used DD but your explanation makes sense. It gets hard to keep track of players during live drafts especially when you are commish.

 

[Pura Vida]

The DD has never been a tool I could use effectively. I might use it to create my draft list, but then I print out the list and use paper and pen on draft day.

Overall, the IDP content on the web stinks. FBG have good season and weekly rankings. A couple of other sites have other advantages. As an IDP guy, the best you can do is wait for a site to step up and until then use bits and pieces from different sites to meet your needs.

Adding IDPS to the rate my team feature would be quite awesome!

 

[JOBOOZOSO]

Overall, the IDP content on the web stinks.

I disagree. Plenty of good sites and people are available to help, then YOU must help yourself by making your own personal rankings and/or tiers.If you (not Pura Vida, "you" in general) put some effort into IDP, you'll be rewarded. A lazy fantasy GM is the one that only reads templates, rankings, mathematics, or stats instead of using that knowledge to formulate your own opinion.Sh!+, all you need to do is send Jene a personal message asking him "What are your thoughts on the Broncos linebackers?" and he'll give you a response in 24 hours. Then take that info with the rest of the stuff you read.And if you do decide to put in some effort, learn Excel. Take the beginner and intermediate tutorial at work, and you'll be amazed at all the fantasy goodness you can process.

 

[obxlegends]

If you value yourself a respectable football site, then you can't allow such excuses to tarnish your reputation. Not to be able to separate DT/DE and CB/S is frankly an embarrassment. You may as well just not include IDP in the first place. I'm not buying the "coding" explanation either. It seems like a poor excuse to not put out the best product you can.

 

[SeanTaylor21]

If you value yourself a respectable football site, then you can't allow such excuses to tarnish your reputation. Not to be able to separate DT/DE and CB/S is frankly an embarrassment. You may as well just not include IDP in the first place. I'm not buying the "coding" explanation either. It seems like a poor excuse to not put out the best product you can.

I disagree big time.. You're complaining to the experts about a database or development issue.Also, I challenge anyone to find a better IDP site. There's something to be said about the interaction that Jene has with the members and I don't know if there's a better IDP expert out there.

 

[obxlegends]

If you value yourself a respectable football site, then you can't allow such excuses to tarnish your reputation. Not to be able to separate DT/DE and CB/S is frankly an embarrassment. You may as well just not include IDP in the first place. I'm not buying the "coding" explanation either. It seems like a poor excuse to not put out the best product you can.

I disagree big time.. You're complaining to the experts about a database or development issue.Also, I challenge anyone to find a better IDP site. There's something to be said about the interaction that Jene has with the members and I don't know if there's a better IDP expert out there.

I'm not taking anything away from Jene. He's been a fantastic ambassador for FBG, especially on the IDP side of things. Sometimes it seems he's single handedly holding things around here together. He has my full respect and always has.However, this isn't about Jene.This is about being the best of the best. More importantly it's about money. The issues are on the IDP side of the ball so they're easier to ignore since IDP isn't their bread and butter.Trust me when I tell you if the coding issues were between WR/TE then it would of been fixed a long long time ago. So quick, we probably wouldn't know there was an issue in the first place.

 

[kurtrudder]

If you value yourself a respectable football site, then you can't allow such excuses to tarnish your reputation. Not to be able to separate DT/DE and CB/S is frankly an embarrassment. You may as well just not include IDP in the first place. I'm not buying the "coding" explanation either. It seems like a poor excuse to not put out the best product you can.

I disagree big time.. You're complaining to the experts about a database or development issue.Also, I challenge anyone to find a better IDP site. There's something to be said about the interaction that Jene has with the members and I don't know if there's a better IDP expert out there.

I'm not taking anything away from Jene. He's been a fantastic ambassador for FBG, especially on the IDP side of things. Sometimes it seems he's single handedly holding things around here together. He has my full respect and always has.However, this isn't about Jene.This is about being the best of the best. More importantly it's about money. The issues are on the IDP side of the ball so they're easier to ignore since IDP isn't their bread and butter.Trust me when I tell you if the coding issues were between WR/TE then it would of been fixed a long long time ago. So quick, we probably wouldn't know there was an issue in the first place.

FBG would never put their name to an inferior product that had issues with WR/TE, bit of a silly example. Seriously though, whose bread and butter is IDP? Personally, 95% of my money leagues are IDP but I am not completely insular either and I realise that I'm in the minority, that most leagues are not IDP.Really though, your complaining about a product that is given away for free by FBG. Would you prefer they fixed a niche issue with DD and then start 100% charging for it? That might be just fine for you and me because we love our IDP and its mainly what we play, but it doesn't take into account the majority of FF players. In the end, I have no problem with DD how it is. If it was fixed, that would be great but its hardly something worth losing sleep over. Jene touched on something earlier, I would much rather FBG introduce IDP to Rate Your Team. But again, I can understand the realities because IDP leagues are in the minority.

 

[obxlegends]

FBG would never put their name to an inferior product that had issues with WR/TE, bit of a silly example. Seriously though, whose bread and butter is IDP? Personally, 95% of my money leagues are IDP but I am not completely insular either and I realise that I'm in the minority, that most leagues are not IDP.

Really though, your complaining about a product that is given away for free by FBG. Would you prefer they fixed a niche issue with DD and then start 100% charging for it? That might be just fine for you and me because we love our IDP and its mainly what we play, but it doesn't take into account the majority of FF players. In the end, I have no problem with DD how it is. If it was fixed, that would be great but its hardly something worth losing sleep over. Jene touched on something earlier, I would much rather FBG introduce IDP to Rate Your Team. But again, I can understand the realities because IDP leagues are in the minority.

Trust me, I'm not complaining. I'm just highlighting the issues behind why DD isn't a priority. I will say the product isn't given away for free as there is both a Free and a Paid version of the product. Much like Rankings, ect.

You really just echoed my points, while saying you don't agree with me. Which, I guess is probably my fault for not being more articulate.

My 2 points are:

1. If there was substantial money at risk (people buying a subscription or not) from not devoting more time and resources to IDP then they'd do it in a heartbeat. The bottom line is, it's a business, and I can't blame them for not devoting more money to something that doesn't bring in money.

However, that leads me to point #2...

2. You can't claim you're the best and say you're all about your customers when you can't do a simple thing like separate CB/S.

With all that being said I really hate sounding so negative to a site that's given me so much. I'm really appreciate to all the efforts given Joe, David, Jene, Sig and everyone else who has made this site so great. I'm obviously here for a reason.

I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[kurtrudder]

Where we disagree is that I don't make the assumption that for the purpose of DD, separating CB/S or DE/DT is simple. I didn't write the program nor do I assume to understand how hard it would be to get VBD to work accurately when having to change 2 positions (DL/DB) to 4 positions (DE/DT/CB/S).

 

[massraider]

Of course I would prefer they separate DT/DE and CB/S, but having played IDP for a long time, and using DD for a long time, I honestly don't think it makes much of a difference.

YMMV, but cornerback is such a crapshoot, for the most part, and so few DTs score well, that it really doesn't affect my strategy too much. If you are an owner that will go grab Ngata, you won't forget about him because the positions aren't separated. At CB, I have my targets, I am looking for guys that play across from better CBs, and have a nice pass rush. Or rookie starters. You simply adjust their projections up to a comfortable spot among all DBs, so they appear when you are thinking about getting a CB.

IDP leagues are the last leagues where research pays off consistently. By digging, you can actually find a diamond in the rough, whereas on offense, every possible sleeper has a Shark Pool thread the second he shows anything.

And this is where FBG excels. If you read Jene and Norton's stuff, and listen to their contributions on the Audible, you WILL be ahead of the curve. I have Colin McCarthy on several teams thanks to them, and every year I feel like I made a nice waiver wire pickup, or late rookie pick, based on stuff I got from FBGs.

Could they expand it? Sure, I suppose. But I have a tough time complaining about the guys that are light years, I mean LIGHT YEARS, ahead of the other sites in regard to IDP coverage.

 

[John 14:6]

Of course I would prefer they separate DT/DE and CB/S, but having played IDP for a long time, and using DD for a long time, I honestly don't think it makes much of a difference.

For me it would just be a lot nicer so I can keep track of having roster requirements and bye weeks covered...