What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

"A Contrarian View of Bill Belichick" (1 Viewer)

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
By Simon Clancy

-Orlando Sun-Sentinel Online

Bill Belichick. Genius. Cheat. Hall of Famer in New England. Disaster in Cleveland. Media darling. Media nightmare. You'd think that given the two sided resume, Belichick would, whilst continuing to be rightfully revered for taking a New England Patriots team and winning three Superbowls with a 6th round QB, also be looked at with a modicum of disdain when it comes to his career. Given the fact that he was found guilty of stealing, fined half a million dollars and had a first round pick taken away, you'd think that someone in the media might just take a little shine from his halo. Hell, they might even enjoy it! After all, this is a mainstream media that Belichick despises and treats with utter indredulity.

And yet they continue to love him.

Evidence of this is rife in any transaction the Patriots seem to make. Only recently they jettisoned a QB they picked in the 3rd round a year ago, then cut a former starter in Andrew Walter, leaving free agent pick up Brian Hoyer, a pretty uninspiring rookie from Michigan State as the only back up to Tom Brady, himself fresh off a knee reconstruction and a sore shoulder. And yet, when Hoyer completed 18 of 25 against the Giants in the pre-season finale, it led one respected NFL watcher to say to me: "I don't want to say it was like watching a young Tom Brady, but it was like watching a young Tom Brady. Another masterstroke from Coach Belichick."

Where I see water, others see wine.

Take for example the trade of Richard Seymour. Always known as a slightly cantankerous character, the five time Pro Bowler went from being the leader of the Patriots defense, the heart and soul of the unit, an All Pro performer, coming off an 8 sack season, to being washed up, ageing, over the hill and finished in the time it took to announce his trade from the Patriots (good) to the Raiders (evil).

As one friend said to me, 'I have no doubt that if the Pats had acquired Seymour from the Raiders for a 2011 1st rd pick it would have been hailed as a master stroke by New England'.Of all the hyperbole that has surrounded the trade, you'd think the Patriots had shipped Rick Mirer to the Bears for a #1.

Tony Sparano's reaction - a little fist pump in case you missed it - was most telling. Which do you think coach Sparano is more bothered about? The Patriots picking up a 1st rounder in two drafts time or whether we have to game plan for a 5 time Pro Bowler at least twice this season? Especially on a defense that has lost Harrison, Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel and now big number 93. You think Sparano cares one iota about anything other than how the Seymour trade weakens a Patriot team that will now rely on two rookies to fill that hole?

Me neither.

And it's not just over the Seymour trade where the media wears its rose tinted glasses. Take the case of Alex Smith, the former Bucs tight end who was seen as another 'shrewd trade' by Belichick, who 'stole him' for a 5th rounder, only to cut him on September 5th, when he lost out to the former 1st rounder Ben Watson, who was almost cut himself. Remember Watson? He's the 4.4 running machine from Georgia who was going to revolutionise the tight end position in the NFL.

We're still waiting. Perhaps we should file him away in the drawer marked 'Laurence Maroney'.

And the lack of national press over the Patriots cutting of Greg Lewis was fascinating. Remember, this was a player who New England got for a 5th round pick from Philadelphia, and who, if you'd read a few media outlets at the time, would have thought this was something akin to the Herschel Walker trade. A player Belichick had coveted for years back to when Lewis was at Illinois and who would be guaranteed to catch 50 passes in that offense, who was another Wes Welker but with special teams talent. Cue media fanfare, bunting and numerous lists of Top 10 Great Trades That New England (good) Have Made And Others (evil) Haven't.

And yet where was the fanfare and the bunting when Lewis was cut at the end of training camp? Released, thrown away, unwanted after 3 pre-season grabs, beaten out by two free agent rookies. You missed it you say? No wonder. The mainstream sports media only likes good New England stories. You should know this by now.

It's not consigned to free agency or trades either. Look at the drafting of Jerod Mayo. A player who the Patriots picked 10th overall in 2008, but who some dared to call a reach at that point. Now, after 128 tackles and 16 starts, as well as the AP Defensive Player of the Year award, he's now yet another perspicacious New England selection. Why wouldn't he be?

And it's the drafting of players where things really do get interesting with regards Bill Belichick. If you're a fan of conformity, then might I suggest you look away now? If you like your Monday morning hyperbole and your 24 hour Sports News excess then this might not be the paragraph for you.

New England's draft history isn't nearly as glamourous as people have led you to believe.

There. I said it. I am the anti-ESPN. Yes, there's been some good picks along the way. Yes, there's been some great picks. But thre's been a lot of dross as well. Not everyone can hang their video camera around the neck of a 6th round quarterback that will be a first ballot Hall of Famer at some stage in the next decade. But as Scott Pioli rightfully said, if New England were so smart, why did they pass on Brady five times?

In that famous 2000 draft which delivered Tom Brady are the names of such NFL stalwarts as Adrian Klemm (R2), JR Redmond (R3) and Jeff Marriott (R5). The Patriots even had Dave Stachelski with his one career catch for five yards rated higher than Brady. 2004 was a washout save for Vince Wilfork, whilst they hit on Logan Mankins in 2005 but dealt Ellis Hobbs for a low round pick, have had inclement play from Nick Kaczur and James Sanders and struck it lucky with Matt Cassell, missing on the rest. 2006 should go down in the annals given the wasted picks on Maroney, Chad Jackson (R2), David Thomas (R3), Garrett Mills (R4), Ryan O'Callaghan, (R5), Jeremy Mincey (R6), Dan Stevenson (R6) and LeKevin Smith (R6).

If this had been a Miami Dolphin draft then Lord alone knows the field day that the press would have had. I doubt the front office would have ever worked again. And I don't just mean in football!

It's a little early to conclude on the 2007 draft, but Clint Oldenburg? THE Clint Oldenburg? Please.

Sure, Bill has earned his right to a few misses every once in a while. But over and over and over again? Do the Patriots get a pass because they wheel and deal for so many picks that it doesn't matter who they end up picking? Ever heard the term quality over quantity? Or do they get a free pass because people are scared to criticise, scared they'll miss out if Belichick ever does converse like a grown up with the media? Whichever it is, the rather two faced nature of reporting what happens in New England wouldn't wash if it concerned any other coach in football. Not Wade Phillips, not Mike Tomlin, not Ken Whisenhunt and not Tony Sparano.

That I find very distasteful.

Anyway, the Patriots are 1-0 and off to Miami in February for the Superbowl. How do I know? The media told me.
My take on the article. The man knows how to express a thought; that's for sure. However, it's difficult to pick apart a coach who has three rings. Also, I know it's only one game, but the Seymour trade is already looking better from Oakland's perspective. Hard to argue with that after the two Monday night games. The Pats got no pressure on Edwards the entire night until the very last possession, when the whole world KNEW Buffalo had to throw. Meanwhile, Seymour was a man possessed in Oakland. Snippet from a "NBC Bay-Area" article:

Seymour rang up two sacks, six tackles, and hurried Philip Rivers like an angry bartender at last call throughout the entire evening. The Oakland Tribune's Jerry McDonald decreed that Seymour is the "best Raiders defensive lineman since Howie Long." LaDainian Tomlinson had rung up the Raiders for 100 plus yards in nine of his previous outings against them, with an embarrassing 119.1 average against the Silver and Black. Last night, with Seymour in the Raiders' DL mix, Tomlinson had 56 yards and was rendered damaged goods in fantasy leagues nationwide.

Seymour's first sack came late in the first quarter as he was being double-mugged by two Charger offensive linemen. All you could see was Seymour's fist emerging from the scrum and dragging Rivers to the dirt. Again, with just one hand while being double-covered. But it wasn't just the sacks that made Seymour such a special addition to the Raiders, It's that he could line up at a number of positions to leave Norv Turner more confused than he was when he coached the Raiders. Seymour bum-rushed the Chargers backfield when lined up at defensive end, right tackle, and even as a three-point stance linebacker.

 
As they say, winning hides a multitude of sins. More true in the NFL than anywhere else.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
They have done fairly well in FA signings. As far as the best drafters recently, the Pats havent really been. For that title I nominate Jerry Reese.

 
Not sure what benefit there is to this analysis. Picking on a team that has won 3 titles in 10 years and has been consistently competitive in most/all others seems pretty dumb unless it's a juvenile attempt to inspire the dregs of the NFL: See, even NE makes mistakes! Wait till next year, we'll really show 'em!

 
It'll be interesting to see if the Pats start acquiring some tarnish when they fail to win it all again this year.

 
Raider Nation said:
:excited: Sounds like someone's still bitter over that tuck thing.
Were he a Raiders fan, I might agree.Unless you're referring to me, in which case you'd also be incorrect.
OK. In any case, the guy writes an article dumping on all of the bad picks that Belichick has made the past few years. . .BFD- I could go through almost any teams draft picks over the past 10 years and fine dozens of early round busts. Everyone knows by now they had a bad draft in 06. But of course the writer fails to mention the Moss trade in the 07 draft. Not to mention he calls Matt Cassel a "lucky" pick. Gimme a break. All their 1st round picks since 2003 are still starting for the Pats (Maroney maybe not "starting" but in RRBC). Poorly written article, he picks and chooses a few facts and puts his own spin on them.
 
Great article. He said a lot of things so many people out there are thinking and what so many Patriot fans are blind to. And you guys really are blind to it.

 
Raider Nation said:
:goodposting: Sounds like someone's still bitter over that tuck thing.
Were he a Raiders fan, I might agree.Unless you're referring to me, in which case you'd also be incorrect.
OK. In any case, the guy writes an article dumping on all of the bad picks that Belichick has made the past few years. . .BFD- I could go through almost any teams draft picks over the past 10 years and fine dozens of early round busts. Everyone knows by now they had a bad draft in 06. But of course the writer fails to mention the Moss trade in the 07 draft. Not to mention he calls Matt Cassel a "lucky" pick. Gimme a break. All their 1st round picks since 2003 are still starting for the Pats (Maroney maybe not "starting" but in RRBC). Poorly written article, he picks and chooses a few facts and puts his own spin on them.
You can dispute his claims if you want to, but to say that article was "poorly written?" C'mon.
 
Raider Nation said:
:bye: Sounds like someone's still bitter over that tuck thing.
Were he a Raiders fan, I might agree.Unless you're referring to me, in which case you'd also be incorrect.
OK. In any case, the guy writes an article dumping on all of the bad picks that Belichick has made the past few years. . .BFD- I could go through almost any teams draft picks over the past 10 years and fine dozens of early round busts. Everyone knows by now they had a bad draft in 06. But of course the writer fails to mention the Moss trade in the 07 draft. Not to mention he calls Matt Cassel a "lucky" pick. Gimme a break. All their 1st round picks since 2003 are still starting for the Pats (Maroney maybe not "starting" but in RRBC). Poorly written article, he picks and chooses a few facts and puts his own spin on them.
It's a well written article. The Pats do a great job with FAs to make up for their poor drafting however.
 
My defense of our god in BOLD

Bill Belichick. Genius. Cheat. Hall of Famer in New England. Disaster in Cleveland. Media darling. Media nightmare. You'd think that given the two sided resume, Belichick would, whilst continuing to be rightfully revered for taking a New England Patriots team and winning three Superbowls with a 6th round QB, also be looked at with a modicum of disdain when it comes to his career. Given the fact that he was found guilty of stealing, fined half a million dollars and had a first round pick taken away, you'd think that someone in the media might just take a little shine from his halo. Hell, they might even enjoy it! After all, this is a mainstream media that Belichick despises and treats with utter indredulity.

I would like the "found guilty of stealing" line explained to me. Is this a reference to the Moss trade? The Dillon trade? The Welker trade? The Bledsoe trade? Brady in the 6th? Cassell in the 7th? The Branch trade? Wilfork 21st overall? What?

And yet they continue to love him.

Who are "they?" Belichick often gets ripped by the media. Ron Borges in particular has a personal vendetta against Belichick.

Evidence of this is rife in any transaction the Patriots seem to make. Only recently they jettisoned a QB they picked in the 3rd round a year ago, then cut a former starter in Andrew Walter, leaving free agent pick up Brian Hoyer, a pretty uninspiring rookie from Michigan State as the only back up to Tom Brady, himself fresh off a knee reconstruction and a sore shoulder. And yet, when Hoyer completed 18 of 25 against the Giants in the pre-season finale, it led one respected NFL watcher to say to me: "I don't want to say it was like watching a young Tom Brady, but it was like watching a young Tom Brady. Another masterstroke from Coach Belichick."

It's a strike against Belichick that he missed on the 3rd round pick used to select O'Connell, but I credit him for having the guts to cut bait so quickly when almost any other team in the league would have kept him around only because of the sunken cost of a 3rd round pick.

Where I see water, others see wine.

Take for example the trade of Richard Seymour. Always known as a slightly cantankerous character, the five time Pro Bowler went from being the leader of the Patriots defense, the heart and soul of the unit, an All Pro performer, coming off an 8 sack season, to being washed up, ageing, over the hill and finished in the time it took to announce his trade from the Patriots (good) to the Raiders (evil).

As great a player as he was here, Seymour was never "the heart and soul" of the defense, and I have never once heard anyone claim that he was. That would be Tedy Bruschi and/or Rodney Harrison.

As one friend said to me, 'I have no doubt that if the Pats had acquired Seymour from the Raiders for a 2011 1st rd pick it would have been hailed as a master stroke by New England'.Of all the hyperbole that has surrounded the trade, you'd think the Patriots had shipped Rick Mirer to the Bears for a #1.

If the Patriots had made the trade, it would [likely] be a low 1st rounder, not a potential top 10, or even top 5, pick. And aside from that, I can't recall Belichick ever trading a high pick for a 30-year old player during his time in New England.

Tony Sparano's reaction - a little fist pump in case you missed it - was most telling. Which do you think coach Sparano is more bothered about? The Patriots picking up a 1st rounder in two drafts time or whether we have to game plan for a 5 time Pro Bowler at least twice this season? Especially on a defense that has lost Harrison, Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel and now big number 93. You think Sparano cares one iota about anything other than how the Seymour trade weakens a Patriot team that will now rely on two rookies to fill that hole?

Me neither.

Why would the Patriots conduct business based on the reaction of Tony Sparano?

And it's not just over the Seymour trade where the media wears its rose tinted glasses. Take the case of Alex Smith, the former Bucs tight end who was seen as another 'shrewd trade' by Belichick, who 'stole him' for a 5th rounder, only to cut him on September 5th, when he lost out to the former 1st rounder Ben Watson, who was almost cut himself. Remember Watson? He's the 4.4 running machine from Georgia who was going to revolutionise the tight end position in the NFL.

It's a 5th round pick. Who cares? And how was Watson "almost" cut? The author couldn't possibly know this. And no one ever said that Watson was going to "revolutionize" the TE position.

We're still waiting. Perhaps we should file him away in the drawer marked 'Laurence Maroney'.

And the lack of national press over the Patriots cutting of Greg Lewis was fascinating. Remember, this was a player who New England got for a 5th round pick from Philadelphia, and who, if you'd read a few media outlets at the time, would have thought this was something akin to the Herschel Walker trade. A player Belichick had coveted for years back to when Lewis was at Illinois and who would be guaranteed to catch 50 passes in that offense, who was another Wes Welker but with special teams talent. Cue media fanfare, bunting and numerous lists of Top 10 Great Trades That New England (good) Have Made And Others (evil) Haven't.

Another 5th round pick. It's also interesting that the author brings up Welker without giving credit to Belichick for stealing him from Miami.

And yet where was the fanfare and the bunting when Lewis was cut at the end of training camp? Released, thrown away, unwanted after 3 pre-season grabs, beaten out by two free agent rookies. You missed it you say? No wonder. The mainstream sports media only likes good New England stories. You should know this by now.

Spygate down?

It's not consigned to free agency or trades either. Look at the drafting of Jerod Mayo. A player who the Patriots picked 10th overall in 2008, but who some dared to call a reach at that point. Now, after 128 tackles and 16 starts, as well as the AP Defensive Player of the Year award, he's now yet another perspicacious New England selection. Why wouldn't he be?

What? Is the author trying to say that Mayo wasn't a good pick at 10th overall, or was unworthy of DPOY, or what? I would address the point he is trying to make here, but I have no idea what it is.

And it's the drafting of players where things really do get interesting with regards Bill Belichick. If you're a fan of conformity, then might I suggest you look away now? If you like your Monday morning hyperbole and your 24 hour Sports News excess then this might not be the paragraph for you.

New England's draft history isn't nearly as glamourous as people have led you to believe.

There. I said it. I am the anti-ESPN. Yes, there's been some good picks along the way. Yes, there's been some great picks. But thre's been a lot of dross as well. Not everyone can hang their video camera around the neck of a 6th round quarterback that will be a first ballot Hall of Famer at some stage in the next decade. But as Scott Pioli rightfully said, if New England were so smart, why did they pass on Brady five times?

In that famous 2000 draft which delivered Tom Brady are the names of such NFL stalwarts as Adrian Klemm (R2), JR Redmond (R3) and Jeff Marriott (R5). The Patriots even had Dave Stachelski with his one career catch for five yards rated higher than Brady. 2004 was a washout save for Vince Wilfork, whilst they hit on Logan Mankins in 2005 but dealt Ellis Hobbs for a low round pick, have had inclement play from Nick Kaczur and James Sanders and struck it lucky with Matt Cassell, missing on the rest. 2006 should go down in the annals given the wasted picks on Maroney, Chad Jackson (R2), David Thomas (R3), Garrett Mills (R4), Ryan O'Callaghan, (R5), Jeremy Mincey (R6), Dan Stevenson (R6) and LeKevin Smith (R6).

Belichick drafted his entire starting offensive line (3 Pro Bowlers), save for Stephen Neal, who he picked up as an undrafted free agent. They have been considered among the league's best in recent years. He drafted Brady in the 6th. He traded other picks for Wes Welker and Randy Moss, arguably the league's best receiving duo. He also drafted Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, and Jarvis Green. He drafted reigning DPOY Jerod Mayo. It's irrelevant that they eventually traded Ellis Hobbs; he was a solid 3rd round pick here. Belichick also drafted Brandon Meriweather, not to mention Asante Samuel. Eugene Wilson was also a very useful player in New England earlier on in his career. He also drafted Gostkowski, who is an elite kicker.

If this had been a Miami Dolphin draft then Lord alone knows the field day that the press would have had. I doubt the front office would have ever worked again. And I don't just mean in football!

It's a little early to conclude on the 2007 draft, but Clint Oldenburg? THE Clint Oldenburg? Please.

Oldenburg was taken at the 5.34 spot. Why is this author so infatuated with 5th round picks? Anyway, the Pats took Meriweather in the 1st round, and he's looking like a promising young player right now. They didn't pick again until 4.28. This is admittedly pure speculation on my part, but given that the '07 roster was so stacked, it's not outside the realm of possibility that the Patriots used their late round picks on high rish/high reward types who just didn't pan out for whatever reason. Regardless, although it is too early to tell, it appears that they hit on their 1st round pick.

Sure, Bill has earned his right to a few misses every once in a while. But over and over and over again? Do the Patriots get a pass because they wheel and deal for so many picks that it doesn't matter who they end up picking? Ever heard the term quality over quantity? Or do they get a free pass because people are scared to criticise, scared they'll miss out if Belichick ever does converse like a grown up with the media? Whichever it is, the rather two faced nature of reporting what happens in New England wouldn't wash if it concerned any other coach in football. Not Wade Phillips, not Mike Tomlin, not Ken Whisenhunt and not Tony Sparano.

Everyone misses on draft picks; no one hits on all of them. The fact that Belichick wheels & deals for more and more (not to mention higher and higher) picks only increases the chances that he'll get some good players out of the draft. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

That I find very distasteful.

Anyway, the Patriots are 1-0 and off to Miami in February for the Superbowl. How do I know? The media told me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great article. He said a lot of things so many people out there are thinking and what so many Patriot fans are blind to. And you guys really are blind to it.
Patriots fans may be blind to it, to some extent. Especially the off the field, "I don't like his attitude" demeanor. As fans of the team, most don't care if he's short with the media, gives lousy interviews, etc. His drafts haven't always been stellar, either. But, at the end of the day, it's not about how you draft. It's how you assemble a roster and how you play on Sundays. It's how well prepared your players are. It's about getting the best from the talent you have. And it's about keeping a team at the top of the league for 10 years now. Blind to Belichick's flaws? Maybe, but his successes in NE have so far outweighed his flaws many times over.The author has his opinion. I'll take the past 10 years of success and a future that still looks to be quite good.
 
Raider Nation said:
:unsure: Sounds like someone's still bitter over that tuck thing.
Were he a Raiders fan, I might agree.Unless you're referring to me, in which case you'd also be incorrect.
OK. In any case, the guy writes an article dumping on all of the bad picks that Belichick has made the past few years. . .BFD- I could go through almost any teams draft picks over the past 10 years and fine dozens of early round busts. Everyone knows by now they had a bad draft in 06. But of course the writer fails to mention the Moss trade in the 07 draft. Not to mention he calls Matt Cassel a "lucky" pick. Gimme a break. All their 1st round picks since 2003 are still starting for the Pats (Maroney maybe not "starting" but in RRBC). Poorly written article, he picks and chooses a few facts and puts his own spin on them.
It's a well written article. The Pats do a great job with FAs to make up for their poor drafting however.
Well, I disagree. It reads like an angry post on a message board. He is picking and choosing some picks that support his position (granted, there are plenty to pick from just as with any other team), while ignoring the fact that they have made some great picks and trades in the draft over the past decade. Calling the Cassel pick lucky just makes him look bitter.
 
The only poorly-written thing in the article was spelling aging wrong. :unsure:

Other than that, good article. I am not surprised some Patriots fans are missing the point of it, which was not to point out everything Belichick does wrong. It was to point out that everything he does is not right, and that he does make some mistakes. If just about any other team that is considered a real contender had made the Seymour trade, they would be vilified for hurting their SB chances. Belichick was praised for it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great article. He said a lot of things so many people out there are thinking and what so many Patriot fans are blind to. And you guys really are blind to it.
You're right. I totally thought that everyone we had drafted since 2000 was still on the team, in the midst of their respective HOF careers.
 
The Brady years have seen 8 consecutive winning seasons and in that stretch 6 divisional titles, 5 Conference Games, 4 SB appearances, 3 SB wins - hardly surprising the media focus on what's gone right -

I cant see any merit in focusing on individual busts when the franchise consistently performs so well.

Looking ahead the Pats have 3 picks in round 2 the 2010 draft and 2 in round 1 of the 2011 draft which puts them ahead of most franchises already.

 
Great article. He said a lot of things so many people out there are thinking and what so many Patriot fans are blind to. And you guys really are blind to it.
Listen to the new Patriot's radio station for an hour, and every single point in that article will be covered. No one is blind to it, we just have a lot of faith in our head coach. Doesn't mean we don't ##### about moves we don't like.
 
Raider Nation said:
:banned: Sounds like someone's still bitter over that tuck thing.
Were he a Raiders fan, I might agree.Unless you're referring to me, in which case you'd also be incorrect.
OK. In any case, the guy writes an article dumping on all of the bad picks that Belichick has made the past few years. . .BFD- I could go through almost any teams draft picks over the past 10 years and fine dozens of early round busts. Everyone knows by now they had a bad draft in 06. But of course the writer fails to mention the Moss trade in the 07 draft. Not to mention he calls Matt Cassel a "lucky" pick. Gimme a break. All their 1st round picks since 2003 are still starting for the Pats (Maroney maybe not "starting" but in RRBC). Poorly written article, he picks and chooses a few facts and puts his own spin on them.
It's a well written article. The Pats do a great job with FAs to make up for their poor drafting however.
Really?
 
Part of the Patriots' success is acquiring all of those draft picks and then utilizing them in future trades (See Corey Dillon, Wes Welker, Randy Moss off the top of my head) along with FA acquisitions to, as Hoss_Cartwright wrote, make up for their poor picks sometimes.

Another thing to remember is that while the Patriots don't get many "stars" through the draft, they do usually get a handful of key role players for at least a year or two in the NFL for their team. Guys like Jonathan Wilhite, Stephen Gostkowski, James Sanders, and Asante Samuels were all Round 4 picks. Round 5 picks included Matt Slater (useful on ST right now) and Dan Koppen. Round 6 picks include Myron Pryor and Le Kevin Smith. Round 7 picks include Julian Edelman, Matt Cassel, and Tully Banta-Cain. Not to mention the guys who've made the team as UDFAs.

Are all of those guys listed studs and stars? Absolutely not. But they all have played a decent role in the Patriots success and sometimes get overlooked because they are late round picks who don't make much noise nationally. They have a good eye for trading/free agency so they don't need to "hit" in the draft as much as say a team like the Detroit Lions.

 
This guy just doesn't get it.

Tony Sparano's reaction - a little fist pump in case you missed it - was most telling. Which do you think coach Sparano is more bothered about? The Patriots picking up a 1st rounder in two drafts time or whether we have to game plan for a 5 time Pro Bowler at least twice this season?
What has made BB and the Pats do damn good is that they continue to be flexible. Sparano can fist pump all he wants about this year- the Patriots weren't going to be able to sign Wilfork and Seymore so they got what they could for one of them. Does it make it harder for them to win the SB this year? Sure, but will Sparano being doing a fist pump in 2011 if the Pats have a top 10 pick - Especially if there is a rookie slotting system is place? The pats will continue to be under the cap enabling them to grab any player they want at basically any time, and they continue to trade back in drafts so they can keep plugging the holes that pop up year to year. Oh and this
Disaster in Cleveland
Is something else the media told him. BB took over a 3-13 team and in 4 years won a playoff game with them (the last playoff game the Browns have won btw). If his last year hadn't been a disastrous lame duck season due to Model moving the team he could well still be coaching in Cleveland.
 
The only poorly-written thing in the article was spelling aging wrong. :rolleyes:

Other than that, good article. I am not surprised some Patriots fans are missing the point of it, which was not to point out everything Belichick does wrong. It was to point out that everything he does is not right, and that he does make some mistakes. If just about any other team that is considered a real contender had made the Seymour trade, they would be vilified for hurting their SB chances. Belichick was praised for it.
The Patriots, like every other team in the league, have their share of homers. But most fans do not consider Belichick perfect.However, we do consider him to be the best at what he does in the entire league, and one of the best of all time. Most of us have come to realize that Belichick knows more about football than we ever will (or you ever will, or almost anyone else ever will). We trust in his decisions and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not really sure why fans of other teams don't understand this. His track record speaks for itself. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, especially when it comes to big name, veteran players.

 
I'm not a Patriot hater, but I think you have to give a lot of credit for all of Belichick's accomplishments to Tom Brady. He is probably the best QB since Joe Montana.

As I mentioned in the Jerrod Mayo thread, I was very surprised by the Pats' apparent lack of team speed on defense. I also thought that Seymour's departure made Wilfork a significantly less impactful player -- most likely opposing lines had been keying on Seymour, and can now do that to Wilfork, without much fear that anyone else on the D Line is going to whip them without being double-teamed.

But more than anything, they just looked slow to me. Will be interesting to see if Fred Jackson is really that good -- I expect Leon Washington to have a big day, running to the edges, on draws, and with screens and catches out of the backfield.

 
just imagine if brian cox doesn't hit drew bledsoe when he is running out of bounds. whoa
Brian Cox was on the Patriots that year. You're thinking of Mo Lewis.No way to prove or disprove this, but it's been said that Belichick was considering giving Brady a shot anyway. Bledsoe was not a Belichick-type player by any stretch of the imagination.
 
The most interesting thing about this article is that it makes Sparano look a bit like a dolt.

He's excited he doesn't have to face Seymour in '09? Fine. But everyone knew there was ZERO CHANCE of the Patriots giving Seymour a new contract. I have to assume Sparano knew this too... which tells me:

a) he manages year-to-year with no thought beyond the current season

or

b) he has no expectation to be coaching against the Patriots beyond this year

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The most interesting thing about this article is that it makes Sparano look a bit like a dolt. He's excited he doesn't have to face Seymour in '09? Fine. But everyone knew there was ZERO CHANCE of the Patriots giving Seymour a new contract. I have to assume Sparano knew this too... which tells me:

a) he manages year-to-year with no thought beyond the current season

or

b) he has no expectation to be coaching against the Patriots beyond this year
That's quite a leap you've taken there. Can't the guy just be happy?P.S. ALL coaches manage "from year to year." Every one of them will tell you the only game which matters is the next one.

 
Whichever it is, the rather two faced nature of reporting what happens in New England wouldn't wash if it concerned any other coach in football. Not Wade Phillips, not Mike Tomlin, not Ken Whisenhunt and not Tony Sparano.
What a load of tripe. If any of these guys - and Tomlin at least is well on his way - manage to win games and Championships as regularly as BB, I think the fans, and the media as a result, will give them every bit as much latitude as Bill gets.
 
The most interesting thing about this article is that it makes Sparano look a bit like a dolt.

He's excited he doesn't have to face Seymour in '09? Fine. But everyone knew there was ZERO CHANCE of the Patriots giving Seymour a new contract. I have to assume Sparano knew this too... which tells me:

a) he manages year-to-year with no thought beyond the current season

or

b) he has no expectation to be coaching against the Patriots beyond this year
To be fair, as great a job as Sparano did last year, most coaches in the league really have no choice but to play it year-by-year. Three or four years from now, how many of today's coaches can you say will almost definitely still be coaching their current teams? I'd say Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Coughlin... and maybe Sean Payton? That's just off the top of my head, but I can't imagine that I forgot more than 2 or 3 other coaches, at most.
 
The most interesting thing about this article is that it makes Sparano look a bit like a dolt. He's excited he doesn't have to face Seymour in '09? Fine. But everyone knew there was ZERO CHANCE of the Patriots giving Seymour a new contract. I have to assume Sparano knew this too... which tells me:

a) he manages year-to-year with no thought beyond the current season

or

b) he has no expectation to be coaching against the Patriots beyond this year
That's quite a leap you've taken there. Can't the guy just be happy?P.S. ALL coaches manage "from year to year." Every one of them will tell you the only game which matters is the next one.
I respectfully disagree. Belichick would not have made this trade (nor any of his forward-looking trades involving draft picks) if he was truly taking things one season at a time. But there aren't more than a very small handful of coaches (no more than a half-dozen, and that's probably being generous) who are secure enough in their positions to run their teams like that. And I've got to say that it's a pretty significant advantage.
 
And get mad at the media, not Belichick, if the media ball-washes him on some trade like dealing for Greg Lewis.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
To be fair, as great a job as Sparano did last year, most coaches in the league really have no choice but to play it year-by-year. Three or four years from now, how many of today's coaches can you say will almost definitely still be coaching their current teams? I'd say Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Coughlin... and maybe Sean Payton? That's just off the top of my head, but I can't imagine that I forgot more than 2 or 3 other coaches, at most.
And there you have the difference between successful franchises and the rest: the ability (luxury?) to look beyond the current year when evaluating rosters.
 
Also, I know it's only one game, but the Seymour trade is already looking better from Oakland's perspective. Hard to argue with that after the two Monday night games. The Pats got no pressure on Edwards the entire night until the very last possession, when the whole world KNEW Buffalo had to throw. Meanwhile, Seymour was a man possessed in Oakland.
The Patriots had trouble pressuring the QB last year as well, with Seymour in the lineup. He did record eight sacks, which was great, but it's been suggested that that was largely due to him no longer drawing regular double teams in the way he once did. The eight sacks in 2008 equalled his career high from 2003. In the four interim years he never recorded more than 5. Raiders' fans should be ecstatic with the two sack game because it's a feat he only accomplished twice in 8 years for the Patriots.
 
The most interesting thing about this article is that it makes Sparano look a bit like a dolt.

He's excited he doesn't have to face Seymour in '09? Fine. But everyone knew there was ZERO CHANCE of the Patriots giving Seymour a new contract. I have to assume Sparano knew this too... which tells me:

a) he manages year-to-year with no thought beyond the current season

or

b) he has no expectation to be coaching against the Patriots beyond this year
To be fair, as great a job as Sparano did last year, most coaches in the league really have no choice but to play it year-by-year. Three or four years from now, how many of today's coaches can you say will almost definitely still be coaching their current teams? I'd say Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Coughlin... and maybe Sean Payton? That's just off the top of my head, but I can't imagine that I forgot more than 2 or 3 other coaches, at most.
About the only guys even up for consideration for such a thing would be Andy Reid, John Fox and maybe Lovie Smith. But, like Payton, they're probably more like borderline guys so I agree with you.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top