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I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense. If a team is not in my home state, I *MUST* root for the closest team geographically?What if someone lives halfway between Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park? Should they get a tape measure out to see which team to cheer for?
Type some more. I'm almost convinced.I don't need to convince anyone I am a true fan (member of FBG forum in summer of 2000 with current moniker, yes I was ahead of the curve), I am not the one wagging my finger at other teams fans. FTR, I am 48 and I have been a Pats fan since at least 74, 75 or so and loved them ever since. How old are you?You on the other hand jumped on the Raiders band wagon (since they were winning) and now that the embarrassing fact has been proven, you have been exposed as a bit of a front running hypocrite yourself. Now stop digging and the hole won't get any deeper, then leave the Patriots and their great fans alone and we will do likewise with the raiders and their front running fans; you know, like you
Dumbest logic ever, yes. That is like saying if someone living in St. Louis got into sports in the early 90s, after the Cardinals left and before the Rams got here, they were obligated to root for the Chiefs.
Everyone in New England is familiar with the law; some just choose to ignore it.There are no tape measures needed. It doesnt matter if you live in the southwest corner of Connecticut. The law is the law.
Here's your error. It's not logic. It's religion.Dumbest logic ever, yes. That is like saying if someone living in St. Louis got into sports in the early 90s, after the Cardinals left and before the Rams got here, they were obligated to root for the Chiefs.
I missed the memo. I must have been kissing a girl or something.
Clemens left for the Yankees?
I would say this is 100% true. There are a ton of Johnny Come Latelys with the Patriots. I know 90% of my friends came around after Drew Bledsoe was drafted and that's OK. However there are a lot of people who sport that old Patriot logo on their truck and claim to be there through thick and thin. You can parse through these people pretty easily with a few quick brush strokes of Patriots history, pre-Bill Parcells.
YET you keep posting in it.I love irony.
Fixed.
Boggs is a scumbag, and so is Clemens, but Damon gets unfairly criticized around here.The only reason he came to Boston in the first place was because we offered him more money than anyone else. Then he helps the Sox win their first World Series since 1918 - and this team would never, ever have won that year without Damon - and Damon rightfully became a huge hero around here.
100% agreed, and it's killing me to see it with my beloved Bruins all over again.Yah upstate covers a lot of ground so it depends where. From where I grew up in Syracuse, NYC and Boston are both a 5 hour drive. Definitely FA territory for baseball. Same for football to some extent, though the Giants and Bills are on tv every week (nobody really cared about the Jets unless your dad was from Long Island or something).
~South of Hartford is Giant's country. This stems from the Giants days in the Yale Bowl. ~North of Hartford starts to trend toward the Pats.CT can't be claimed by the Pats. Sorry.
The FACT of the matter is you jumped on the Raiduhs bandwagon when they were winning which is fine, after all you were young and foolish. But calling out pats fans for being front runners while you are a documented front runner yourself is pretty hypocritical. Just stop stop throwing stones and we can all move onType some more. I'm almost convinced.I don't need to convince anyone I am a true fan (member of FBG forum in summer of 2000 with current moniker, yes I was ahead of the curve), I am not the one wagging my finger at other teams fans. FTR, I am 48 and I have been a Pats fan since at least 74, 75 or so and loved them ever since. How old are you?You on the other hand jumped on the Raiders band wagon (since they were winning) and now that the embarrassing fact has been proven, you have been exposed as a bit of a front running hypocrite yourself. Now stop digging and the hole won't get any deeper, then leave the Patriots and their great fans alone and we will do likewise with the raiders and their front running fans; you know, like you
Nothing ironic about that. I like a good FFA as much as the next guy. But the original intent of the thread is a big fail.Raider Nation said:
Context is important and I think u need to go back and read what RN posted; after he called out "most" pats fans as being front runners we discovered that he himself is a front runner. He won't tell us how old he is, but he did tell us that he lived in NE his whole life and became a raiders fan in 73. How does a young man become a fan of a team that is 3000 miles away and in a different time zone? It only makes sense if that team is winning all the time and your local team is losing all the time. So you abandon your local team and go with the team that is winning (front runner). So A. he is a turncoat (from a diehard pats fan perspective) and B. he is a hypocrite of the nth degree for having the audacity to smear "most" pats fans for something he himself is undoubtedly guilty of. He posts a lame article critical of BB and then calls out "most" pats fans as being front runners. I've hated the raiders ever since Ben Dreith stole that playoff game for them in 76, but I have never held much animosity toward their fans or their coaches. The payback in 2001 was a #####, but it was so deserved; unfortunately now we have bitter oak fans like RN who can't stand what their team has come to represent and apparently it makes them feel better to go after NEs coaches and fans. Now that I know what RN did (leave the losing pats for the winning raiders) I am going to make a point of neutering him like this anytime I seem him dissing NE or their fans.
his role model is al davis --- don't set the bar too high.Nothing ironic about that. I like a good FFA as much as the next guy. But the original intent of the thread is a big fail.Raider Nation said:
A) The Pats are a Boston team, not the team of New England. B) I hardly think anything you've written has neutered him or even been a winning argument.
Not that I care, but the pats have fans all across NE and are in fact called the NE patriots, so you are demonstrably incorrect on your first attempt at making a point.B. I (and Baller) pointed out that factually speaking, RN spurned his local team which was a perennial loser for a team 3000 miles away that was a perennial winner. Can you offer anything in the way of facts to dispute that?
The Giants could rename themselve the Mid-Atlantic Giants, doesnt change the fact that they're a NYC team, nor does the fact they play across the river in NJ. Neither the Jets nor the Giants can claim upstate NY among their traditional fanbase, but they do have SW CN. And the Pats have only been the NE Pats since 1971, even though they just moved to a Boston suburb. By your logic, teams should rename themselves the Rocky Mountain Broncos, Pacific Northwest Seahawks, Great Plains Rams, Southern California Charges and the Deep South Falcons.B. I dispute that the Pats are the local team for everyone in New England, so there would be no spurning whatsoever.
100 % Irrelevant
I never claimed they were the New England patriots prior to 1971 so again your statement is entirely irrelevant.
An utterly asinine statement that does nothing other than demonstrate that logic is not your strong suit.
Ummmm, no one claimed that the pats are the local team for all of New England, just the vast majority of it. Maybe you don't have a clear understanding of just exactly where and what New England is. Lets not quibble over where you are I think New England is, lets go to WebstersMain Entry: New England
Really? There's probably some Connecticuters (ites?) that are NY backers, but for the most part, you are pretty much wrong.
You could *maybe* make the argument that people in Portland Maine are local, though thats a stretch considering its 2 hours away, but other parts of Maine? Alot of which is 4+ hours away, not so much. Same thing for VT, NH. And most of CT is closer to the Giants/Jets than the Pats. In general, I'd put alot of people outside of any local territory, especially since they're not even in the same state.
You've been typing non-stop since I left the house? LOL. Take your oVVnage like a man and move on.We get it.... you've been a Pats fan longer than anyone in the history of the world!!! Have a cookie.100 % Irrelevant
I never claimed they were the New England patriots prior to 1971 so again your statement is entirely irrelevant.Ummmm, no one claimed that the pats are the local team for all of New England, just the vast majority of it. Maybe you don't have a clear understanding of just exactly where and what New England is. Lets not quibble over where you are I think New England is, lets go to WebstersMain Entry: New England
Function: geographical name
1 the NE United States comprising the states of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, & Connecticut
So you have 6 states, (7 if you include NY) and it is undeniable that New England Patriots fans dominate at least 5 of those states and that the Patriots are the closest team (geographically speaking) in those 5 states. Hence the name NEW ENGLAND Patriots is entirely appropriate.
If you wanted to make the argument that RN lived in upstate NY or southern CT and the Pats weren't his local team that would at least have some merit. However, I don;t think that is the case and even still he didn't choose a regional team, he chose a team 3000 miles away that just happened to be winning year after year. Nice diversion for RN though
Can you get WFAN in Portland, which was your original example? Doubt it... nice try trying to swap out your examples tho.
Holy crap, knew WFAN had a big area, but thats kinda insane. Wasn't swaping examples, different wrong logic, different examples to point out their absurdity.Can you get WFAN in Portland, which was your original example? Doubt it... nice try trying to swap out your examples tho.
3 posts in 5 hours is non stop? You are a hypocrite and now since you can't dispute a single thing I have said you are forced to resort to child like insults.Tell us again how you became a raider fan and how it had nothing to do with them winningYou've been typing non-stop since I left the house? LOL. Take your oVVnage like a man and move on. We get it.... you've been a Pats fan longer than anyone in the history of the world!!! Have a cookie.
Dear GIGANTIC High Millen/Scott Zolak fan. You've made this about me again. Shocking. I'll type slower this time, and I'll hit every one of your super awesome bullet points so I won't need to do it again.3 posts in 5 hours is non stop? You are a hypocrite and now since you can't dispute a single thing I have said you are forced to resort to child like insults.Tell us again how you became a raider fan and how it had nothing to do with them winningYou've been typing non-stop since I left the house? LOL. Take your oVVnage like a man and move on.
We get it.... you've been a Pats fan longer than anyone in the history of the world!!! Have a cookie.
I'm from Maine. Born in Caribou and lived a long time in Scarborough (next to Portland). Almost all my family lives in Caribou, Presque Isle or Fort Kent (you dont get more Northern or farther from Boston that that). The Patriots are the default football team for almost everyone I've ever met in Maine save for the really old folks who are giants fans due to how long theyve been around. With the name change, to New England, it really sealed it. Most of my family, friends, and associates see the Pats as their team much more so than the Red Sox as they have no special fondness for Boston itself. An interesting thing is aside from BC, the biggest college football team is Notre Dame, due to all the Catholics I believe. Almost all the states, except hawaii and alaska, belong to some kind of region, mid-atlantic for example. During my time in the military, traveling all around, the people who were fondest, proudest, and most tied to their region were New Englanders. The "South" also has a lot of that. As far as VT and NH, well that along with Maine, makes the tri-state area and again, the Patriots are and always have been the default team for most everyone, it'd have to be 90% plus. Last point is a cultural one. I live in the south now, SEC is king and everyone is loud as hell about it, I think us yankees just learned how to be that way in the last 10-15 years. You didnt see a lot of people proclaiming their love for the pats in the streets because thats just now how people are up there. They keep to themselves, Southerners find it rude, and dont talk a lot of trash. The young ones talk a lot of trash now but I see that as being caused by the whole country becoming homogenized due to pervasive mass media. And yes, I have been drinking!
Wicked Good post (born and raised in South Portland).Fwiw, hope nobody gets bent out of shape by this thread; we should all stick to good natured ribbing.Oh yeah, the Yankees still suck.
That's all fine and dandy. There is no requirement that you root for Boston teams.But stop trying to pretend that most of the New England region does NOT root for the Patriots. It's simply not true. Generally speaking, most folks who grew up in that region (MA, RI, VT, NH, NE, 1/2 of CT) root for the Pats and Red Sox. It's just a fact.Example: I'm walking with my kids yesterday, wearing a Red Sox hat (no, not a fan, my brother-in-law gave it to me and I'm too cheap to buy another hat). One of my new neighbors says "oh, another Red Sox fan!" I ask where she and her husband are from: "Oh, we're from Connecticut, but like everybody else up there that means we are Red Sox fans".
No way. It's all relative. Like I said it's OK with me but I do understand what Raider Nation was saying. I think he is over-exaggerating the "most" fans part because I don't think that's fair, but I agree with whole-heartedly that there are fans who claim to be hardcore and old school and who weathered the storm. But the truth is they didn't, so why bother lying about it. It's a downgrade to me. Most of my friends came around because they believed in Bill Parcells and I love that. There is no bullsh*tting with them.In terms of the Grogan/Eason-era, If you were 8 in '93, you would be hard pressed to answer those questions. Again though, I doubt I would ever ask you those questions knowing you are about 24 years old now. Now, if we were hanging out drinking beers and I asked you about Michael Timpson, I would be bustin' your balls if you didn't know who he was! In all honestly, I love all Boston sports fans. Even the girls of Pink Hat Nation.Here's a question: When does the "bandwagon" start?I couldn't tell you much about Andre Tippet, Steve Grogan, etc. mainly because I was 8 years old in 1993 and had just started following the Patriots the year prior at 7 years old. I still remember being more excited about the pick of Chris Slade than Drew Bledsoe
I read RNs post and I stand by my comment. Thousands of young people abandoned their home teams (actually abandoned is the wrong word because it implies they once supported their home teams which is not necessarily the case and there is no obligation for anyone to do so) in the 70s for the Cowboys, Steelers and Raiders. Big deal.That thousands of older people also abandoned their teams after having supported them is a much larger indictment and deserving (I guess...if you actually care about such things) of the scorn both you and RN are throwing at them.It is a fact that many people have jumped on the Pats bandwagon since '01, including many children who have never actually supported any team and you clearly don't want supporting your team (nor would RN want them supporting the Raiders) because they apparently are not geographically desirable. I honestly don't know why you (or RN) care about it.ETA added RN to commentary.
That was never my intent. I love Bill Belichick and ALL Patriot fans!
Seriously though, it's over. The debate helped kill time until kickoff if nothing else. Enjoy your football Sunday, everyone! 
Again, what was it that attracted you to the raiders if it wasn't their winning? You say you were 5, which would make you about 8 or 9 when oak won their first super bowl. They were the cool team at the time, but they wouldn't have been so cool were they not winning, you know, like the patriots, the team that was closest to you.You jumped on the band wagon of a team that was 3000 miles away in a different time zone, that just happened to win all the time and ignored the team in your back yard, who just happened to be perennial losers. That all happened a long time ago and now you are a life long raider fan, good for you, but you still jumped on their bandwagon to begin with and you have no business throwing stones at NE fans.Dear GIGANTIC High Millen/Scott Zolak fan. You've made this about me again. Shocking. I'll type slower this time, and I'll hit every one of your super awesome bullet points so I won't need to do it again.3 posts in 5 hours is non stop? You are a hypocrite and now since you can't dispute a single thing I have said you are forced to resort to child like insults.Tell us again how you became a raider fan and how it had nothing to do with them winningYou've been typing non-stop since I left the house? LOL. Take your oVVnage like a man and move on.
We get it.... you've been a Pats fan longer than anyone in the history of the world!!! Have a cookie.
- The Pats play in Mass. I don't live in Mass. I've never lived in Mass. I don't feel pressure to root for a team just because they pulled a Jedi mind trick and changed their name from the Boston Patriots to the New England Patriots so a region of sheep would worship them. SINCE I don't/didn't live in Mass, I can cheer for whichever team I choose. Doesn't matter if it's the Dallas Cowboys, the Oakland Raiders or the Calgary Stampeders. The state in which I pay taxes has no professional football team. To suggest, therefore, that I owe the Patriots some sort of loyalty is asinine.
- I have been to 21 Raider games since 1982, eight of which were in the Black Hole. Pops flew me out for my birthday six straight years.
- I've had a Raider tatt burned into my skin since college. Rational decision? To this day, my mother would answer that question with a "NOOOO!" But is that the act of a bandwagon jumper? I've taken so much crap over the past six years in particular when people see that, I have as much right to root for the Raiders as someone who grew up in the shadows of Oakland Alameda County Coliseum.
- We haven't won a Super Bowl since 1983. A "bandwagoner" would surely have chosen another team by now.
- I liked the Raiders since I was 5. I could barely zip up my pants. You think I actually made a conscious decision to pick a WINNING team??? I saw the Raider logo and uniform and that was the end of the story. THIS POST which I authored 11 months ago in the "What made you become a fan of your favorite team?" thread will confirm this. As I got older, I appreciated their take-no-prisoners style of play. Jack Tatum, George Atkinson, Otis Sistrunk, John Matuszak, Lyle Alzado, et al. If backing a WINNER was so important to me, wouldn't I have picked the defending champions? I was on board with the Silver and Black well before they beat the Vikes for their first title in SB XI.
Anything else?
Probably because the article posted in the OP, at least written / executed as it was, simply is dumb. So this thread never had a shot, because the article wasn't compelling in the least.And no, I'm not a Pats fan. Not even close.
