A good reason to never bring up public opinion to defend an argument (1 Viewer)

[Clifford]

A Third Of Louisiana Republicans Blame Obama For Hurricane Katrina Response Under Bush

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/obama-hurricane-katrina_n_3790612.html

 

[jon_mx]

A Third Of Louisiana Republicans Blame Obama For Hurricane Katrina Response Under Bush

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/obama-hurricane-katrina_n_3790612.html

In other news, Huffington post writer Sabrina Siddiqui does not know what 1/3 is.

 

[timschochet]

I was going to quote a few Randy Newman lyrics here about that state, but it would just be piling on. Sad.

 

[rockaction]

The premise depends on the context. If you're bringing up public opinion, and public opinion is relevant to the broader point, then this statement isn't really accurate.

For instance, identifying characteristics in politicians goes to electability. It may not be necessarily accurate, but the information is relevant if one is trying to predict who wins, what the media narrative will be, etc.

 

[Mr. Ected]

Can't blame Louisiana folks, they are in food bliss from Tipsey's restaurant.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Citing public opinion is fair game in an argument imo, unless its European public opinion, because who cares what those ####ers think?

 

[rockaction]

Also, it's quite possible that people are blaming Obama for relief efforts that are ongoing, including missing money. I think that most Republicans know that Bush was president during Katrina. It depends on how the question is framed, what is on peoples' minds, etc. I find it begs credibility that people in Louisiana who are registered voters didn't know who the president was when Katrina happened. Perhaps I overestimate the American public. But see this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/700-million-katrina-relief-funds-missing-report-shows/story?id=18870482&page=2

 

[Cjw_55106]

A Third Of Louisiana Republicans Blame Obama For Hurricane Katrina Response Under Bush

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/obama-hurricane-katrina_n_3790612.html

Did they break down the voting? The reason I ask is 45% of those polled were Dems, 36% Rep and 18% Ind.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Hitler was quite popular for a time.

 

[Doug B]

Also, it's quite possible that people are blaming Obama for relief efforts that are ongoing, including missing money. I think that most Republicans know that Bush was president during Katrina. It depends on how the question is framed, what is on peoples' minds, etc. I find it begs credibility that people in Louisiana who are registered voters didn't know who the president was when Katrina happened. Perhaps I overestimate the American public. But see this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/700-million-katrina-relief-funds-missing-report-shows/story?id=18870482&page=2

"Katrina recovery" is not a precise term at all. In a very real way, federal Katrina recovery efforts are still ongoing -- although nine years in, it's all beancounters, lawyers, structural engineers, etc. There's not been immediate human-needs recovery efforts for a long time (excepting Hurricanes Gustav and Isaac on much smaller scales).

For the boader sense of "Katrina recovery", Obama and his appointees have been in charge for about twice as long as Bush's team. In general terms, and counter to party stereotype, the long-term recovery efforts under Obama have been a lot more penny-pinching than they were under Bush. But then, in the first few years after the storm hit, taking too close a look at the Katrina-recovery books was verboten in the aftermath of "heckuva job, Brownie".

 

[Clifford]

This thread should be used not to discuss whether or not the American public is a gullible uninformed mess. That is moot. It should be used to list example after example of our shocking national ignorance.

 

[jon_mx]

This thread should be used not to discuss whether or not the American public is a gullible uninformed mess. That is moot. It should be used to list example after example of our shocking national ignorance.

Ignorance is not shocking.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

A Third Of Louisiana Republicans Blame Obama For Hurricane Katrina Response Under Bush

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/obama-hurricane-katrina_n_3790612.html

According to this poll which reflects public opinion, the majority of Republicans don't blame Obama for the Katrina response. So public opinion, in this instance, would support a correct argument that Obama had nothing to do with the Katrina response.I agree that public opinion isn't the best way to support an argument, but this isn't the best example to support not using public opinion.

 

[oso diablo]

things i noticed in looking at the poll data...

1. This poll was conducted in August 2013 (so curious why this is coming out now)

2. It is a robo-poll, meaning that you answer questions not to a live person, but by pushing buttons on your phone.

3. In the crosstabs, the cohort where a large % of folks blame Obama is ages 65+. In the other age cohorts, this pattern does not appear.

Combining #2 and #3 makes me wonder about the efficacy of the poll. (Not to mention the pollster itself - PPP - which works solely for left-wing campaigns/causes and has had methodology issues)

 

[parasaurolophus]

things i noticed in looking at the poll data...

1. This poll was conducted in August 2013 (so curious why this is coming out now)

2. It is a robo-poll, meaning that you answer questions not to a live person, but by pushing buttons on your phone.

3. In the crosstabs, the cohort where a large % of folks blame Obama is ages 65+. In the other age cohorts, this pattern does not appear.

Combining #2 and #3 makes me wonder about the efficacy of the poll. (Not to mention the pollster itself - PPP - which works solely for left-wing campaigns/causes and has had methodology issues)

Are you saying old people are stupid and cant use technology? That is not going to go over well in the court of public opinion.

 

[Doug B]

A phone-only poll in response to a robo-dialer, eh? Can't discount a percentage of tricksters who'll press "2 for Obama" for a chuckle.

I think that poll can be safely ignored.

...

Para, I'm only in my early 40s, and I fat-finger the numbers on my phone all the time

 

[Kanil]

I quite often use public opinion to piss off my die hard Grateful Dead fan mother-in-law by telling her how many more albums X pop artist sold than the dead and that proves definitively that the dead were more terrible than pretty much every band out now.

 

[Clifford]

That's not public opinion.

As to the majority knowing he didn't, I think that is being a little too charitable to our bleating herds.

For instance, I don't take this as good news that 75% of Americans do understand something that has been established fact for roughly half a millenium:

1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Sayshttp://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/14/277058739/1-in-4-americans-think-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth-survey-says

 

[parasaurolophus]

That's not public opinion.

As to the majority knowing he didn't, I think that is being a little too charitable to our bleating herds.

For instance, I don't take this as good news that 75% of Americans do understand something that has been established fact for roughly half a millenium:

1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Sayshttp://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/14/277058739/1-in-4-americans-think-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth-survey-says

Maybe use an example where public opinion was grossly incorrect?

I don't really see a lot of arguments where people say Oh yeah? Well 25% of the population supports my side compared to 75% for your side!

 

[Clifford]

I consider 25% of our country thinking the earth revolves around the sun grossly incorrect.

BTW, I got that by typing "percentage of Americans believe" into google.

 

[The Commish]

I thought there was going to be a huge map of Washington DC with a picture of the capitol in the initial link

 

[parasaurolophus]

I consider 25% of our country thinking the earth revolves around the sun grossly incorrect.

BTW, I got that by typing "percentage of Americans believe" into google.

I don't really understand the point of this thread. The title "A good reason to never bring up public opinion to defend an argument" is kind of dumb. It should say "Stupid things lots of americans believe"

As I mentioned before I don't really ever hear people use as support when defending an argument that the minority opinion is in their favor.

 

[Scoresman]

its the south, why does this even need to be a thread?

 

[Clifford]

I consider 25% of our country thinking the earth revolves around the sun grossly incorrect.

BTW, I got that by typing "percentage of Americans believe" into google.

I don't really understand the point of this thread. The title "A good reason to never bring up public opinion to defend an argument" is kind of dumb. It should say "Stupid things lots of americans believe"

As I mentioned before I don't really ever hear people use as support when defending an argument that the minority opinion is in their favor.

It illustrates how grossly wrong large portions of our population can be, thus why one should never use what the public believes to defend an argument. It's also a running thread of examples of how stupid the public can be.

EG Someone says "well, 67% of Americans believe that birth control should not be mandated under Obamacare."

"25% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth."

"So?"

"So #### you."

 

[Gary Coal Man]

I consider 25% of our country thinking the earth revolves around the sun grossly incorrect.

BTW, I got that by typing "percentage of Americans believe" into google.

I don't really understand the point of this thread. The title "A good reason to never bring up public opinion to defend an argument" is kind of dumb. It should say "Stupid things lots of americans believe"

As I mentioned before I don't really ever hear people use as support when defending an argument that the minority opinion is in their favor.

It illustrates how grossly wrong large portions of our population can be, thus why one should never use what the public believes to defend an argument. It's also a running thread of examples of how stupid the public can be.

EG Someone says "well, 67% of Americans believe that birth control should not be mandated under Obamacare."

"25% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth."

"So?"

"So #### you."

The phrase "public opinion" is typically interpreted to mean what the majority of the public believes.

In the sun instance, 75% of Americans would not believe the sun revolves around the earth so public opinion would be correct.

The birth control hypothetical reflects personal opinions that can neither be proven nor disproven. So even though public opinion (the majority belief) is that birth control should not be mandated, you cannot say that public opinion is wrong (as in factually incorrect.)

 

[oso diablo]

Are you saying old people are stupid and cant use technology? That is not going to go over well in the court of public opinion.

i was thinking more that they were less likely to hear the question with accuracy.

p.s. i get the joke