A partnership approach to trading in dynasty leagues (1 Viewer)

[Portis 26]

What follows is purely intended for dynasty leagues, rather than redrafts.

The first instinct of the shark is often to take the best deal that he can get in a trade and extract the maximum from the other guy.

This of course is fine in a redraft.

In a dynasty it's not always the best approach.

What I find in most leagues is that out of say 12 guys, only a few are really active traders. And if you want to trade with them, they need to trust you. So while you might really fleece them initially, they will then be highly sceptical of doing business with you again and your trading options will be limited.

In the same way that in the real world, responsible businesses takes a partnership approach with their clients and focus on the relationship rather than the deal, so this is also worthwhile in dynasty leagues.

What I am advocating is giving regular trading partners good deals that make it worth their while.

How is this achievable? Basically, you need to be constantly seeking to add relative value to your team through the draft and waivers so that you can trade this extra value to gain better players.

This strategy presumes that a smart dynasty owner will be seeking excellence at each position, because ultimately that's what wins leagues, and is prepared to overpay for it.

In order to gain the really elite players, therefore, you need to generate enough value to allow you to overpay for the superstars and still maintain good trading relationships. The key is generating that value through smart waiver pickups and good drafting and using sites like this to be ahead of the game.

Let me give you a practical example of this. Let's say you read here that a couple of RBs are impressing in minicamp and you pick them up on waivers in your league. Let's say that they win starting jobs in training camp (this is a hypothetical example, remember) and you trade them to a team in your league that has no starting RBs for a 1st round pick next year. Let's say you also do the same with a couple of other players and secure a 2nd round pick from someone else. You then package the 1st, the 2nd and a solid player for a really good player. You have probably overpaid for the really good player, but you generated that value out of nothing, and the other parties in your trades are also pleased because they got solid deals.

In the long term, you keep doing this over the years, and you can put a really dominant team together. You need to maintain trust, however, keep those trading relationships good, and be relentless in seeking to add value, because that's ultimately the key to this, and of course your ability to do that is based on the depth of your knowledge.

 

[comfortably numb]

I think it's a valid point in dynasty.

But it all depends on the owner you were dealing with.

If they truly felt they were getting a good deal at the time, it shouldn't hamper their future negotiations with you on another deal.

At least that is what I would feel.

If a owner is just an active 1, I think you will be able to make deals often.

Every move I make is to better my team, some work, some don't.

I don't think I would go out of my way to add to a deal, simply to hope it has an effect on our future deals.

For all I know, in 2months or 2 years, I could be the one that got shafted in our deal.

 

[Portis 26]

I think it's a valid point in dynasty.But it all depends on the owner you were dealing with.If they truly felt they were getting a good deal at the time, it shouldn't hamper their future negotiations with you on another deal.At least that is what I would feel.If a owner is just an active 1, I think you will be able to make deals often.Every move I make is to better my team, some work, some don't.I don't think I would go out of my way to add to a deal, simply to hope it has an effect on our future deals.For all I know, in 2months or 2 years, I could be the one that got shafted in our deal.

Right, I am not advocating sweetening every deal, what I am saying is it's worth overpaying for elite players because ultimately they are what win you leagues and you can cover your losses by generating more value.

 

[Kirby]

I'm in a 32 team league and you get spammed with ridiculous offers all the time. "I'll give you these two 38 year old receivers that were hurt last year and you give me those two young receivers and 2 1st rounders next year... oh and I'm going to need you to also through in that young linebacker." They always wonder why I don't counter. Definitely makes me not want to trade with them.

Maybe I'm too nice for fantasy football... but if I offer a trade, I look at it from both sides and try to find something that will help both teams.

 

[comfortably numb]

I'm in a 32 team league and you get spammed with ridiculous offers all the time. "I'll give you these two 38 year old receivers that were hurt last year and you give me those two young receivers and 2 1st rounders next year... oh and I'm going to need you to also through in that young linebacker." They always wonder why I don't counter. Definitely makes me not want to trade with them. Maybe I'm too nice for fantasy football... but if I offer a trade, I look at it from both sides and try to find something that will help both teams.

Not to hijack the thread, but those offers that are ridiculous for you could be starting points for some.I always reply with a counter, or just stating that for those 2 38yr old WR's I would give a 3rd RD pick.I have sent out many offers that may have been lopsided.Some that have got accepted, and people have told me GREAT deal, and on the same deal people have told be I gave too much.Whats the lesson...people value players ALOT differently Find players you like and value alot, and if said owner doesn't value player as much, send starting point offer.It may get accepted.

 

[Crippler]

You have to remember that what is a good deal today is not always a good deal in the future and can hurt a team and they dont forget it. Maybe you had inside information and did not devulge. The best teams will always have the stench that trading with them will not benefit your team. Happens to me all the time but that could be personality also. A really good active owner not only sends out tons of trade offers but is usually writing articles(which upsets owners that dont fare well in rookie grades, team grades etc) or questioning things in the league.

If you want to be the best trader, than you will follow the advice above and overpay for players and always shut your mouth in league activities or trade offers. The insulting an owner for a crappy offer is another way to piss them off. Always have to be politically correct to succeed. If your not this type of owner, than you better be great at other things and not get frustrated easily

 

[FUBAR]

I don't feel the need to "sweeten" my deals, but I try to make solid offers initially, or if I'm not sure how the other owner values players, I actually (GET THIS) - ASK them. Emails work a lot better than out of the blue bad offers.

 

[Portis 26]

I don't feel the need to "sweeten" my deals, but I try to make solid offers initially, or if I'm not sure how the other owner values players, I actually (GET THIS) - ASK them. Emails work a lot better than out of the blue bad offers.

Right, and offer owners players based on need. If a guy doesn't have a starting calibre player at a position he's much more likely to trade.

 

[trollmonger]

I don't know if you have to "overpay" but you should make fair offers.

In dynasty, or in my case a deep keeper league, some teams are building for the future while others are trying to win a championship. This makes for ease of trades with teams of different objectives.

I made two trades last year that I thought were fair but turned out terribly unfair in my favour. Just yesterday, I offered both trading partners some compensation.

Even with the compensation, I probably come out ahead in both trades but my hope is that I will be seen as a fair trader and not a shark trying to take advantage of others. I hope this leads to trust and future trades.

 

[brock]

people who email me ridiculous offers in dynasty leagues get labeled as spam.

 

[Londo]

I don't know if you have to "overpay" but you should make fair offers.

In dynasty, or in my case a deep keeper league, some teams are building for the future while others are trying to win a championship. This makes for ease of trades with teams of different objectives.

I made two trades last year that I thought were fair but turned out terribly unfair in my favour. Just yesterday, I offered both trading partners some compensation.

Even with the compensation, I probably come out ahead in both trades but my hope is that I will be seen as a fair trader and not a shark trying to take advantage of others. I hope this leads to trust and future trades.

Not to hijack the thread, but are you saying that you gave them something for nothing just because an earlier trade turned out to be in your favor? As a commish, I would never allow this. Caveat emptor...To the point at hand, I will definitely overpay to get that final piece to the puzzle (assuming I am going for the ring this year, and not in a rebuilding mode). I won't overpay for any of the building blocks (even if they are great players) but I will definitely do it to put me over the top.

 

[massraider]

I have made deals that turned out to be bad for me, and when dealing with that owner again, it didn't even cross my mind.

I think as long as you aren't doing a deal where you are trading damaged goods to someone (Other guy is unaware of a suspension, etc.), I don't think most owners hold grudges. At least, not against the owner.

 

[brock]

trades are like women. whipping it out after just meeting is no different than a lowball offer. you're going to get slapped in the face and walked out on. you have to make a good strong respectful approach and show you are serious to do business with and not be pushy for a quicky. no woman likes lame ### pickup lines and no owner likes used car salesman like offers. be kind and sweet and you'll be rewarded with a treat. you'll also leave the door open for future trading pleasures.

 

[jwb]

Maybe I'm too nice for fantasy football... but if I offer a trade, I look at it from both sides and try to find something that will help both teams.

I'm the same way, and I've become known as a guy who offers solid deals. The downside to that is my first offer is pretty close to my best offer - I sometimes don't leave myself a lot of negotiating room, and some guys like to negotiate just to negotiate (which is silly, but to each their own.)And while I'll look at any offer, I don't get the guys that offer to trade their scraps for good players - I realize everyone values players differently, but there are some deals I am offered that are just ridiculous.

 

[kurtrudder]

trades are like women. whipping it out after just meeting is no different than a lowball offer. you're going to get slapped in the face and walked out on. you have to make a good strong respectful approach and show you are serious to do business with and not be pushy for a quicky. no woman likes lame ### pickup lines and no owner likes used car salesman like offers. be kind and sweet and you'll be rewarded with a treat. you'll also leave the door open for future trading pleasures.

awesome post Brock......if you don't mind I just have to quote some of that next time a tool in my leagues gives me a spam lowball offer.I agree with the sentiment of the OP and others. If you shark another guy in your league with a trade or two, he is going to be wary of you in future offers. One of the best ways to avoid this is to build the relationship side of things by emailing and discussing trades and all manner of things......of course trying not to give away your best FF secrets.I can see the value in overpaying for one of his truly elite players if you have already done the ground work to build up that extra value and use it. In the end that elite player trade will be seen as a win win....perhaps the other party might even think he is fleecing you......which is great too because he will be back at the trading table in future. It's not always going to work 100% of the time because there are many variables in football and FF that are out of our control but I certainly think the thoughts of the OP are worth taking into consideration....esp are you have completed a number of trades in a league where you have pillaged.

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

I find per average per league a few fair traders like myself we can usually work out a deal anytime if we put our minds to it. A couple you really got to push but can achieve, a couple annoying because they dont exist 3/4's of the year, and the rest you learn fast to stay completely away from because they always going for the rape, and nothing but the rape! lol Maybe them rapers will surprise you over the years once! (One raper owner out of 20 leagues per year on average!)

I find the commishes are usually among the easy to trade with each league.

Commishes like to pull trigger faster just to keep league active and happy which is nice.

Everyone of my leagues has there own personallity I guess. But man them rapers get old fast.

They feed you so much BS it makes me sick sometimes. lol

Some even pushed me to the point over the years I enjoy no trade leagues more and more now a days.

I liked Cowboy boss comments during draft. Some times I'll make a stupid trade just to get the other owner to trade with me more in future. SOUNDS LIKE ME EXACTLY.

 

[teamroc]

People who get offended at offers lack any sort of emotionally maturity.

In any kind of business, any offer is welcomed. You can always learn something from it. If JoeBlow wants Chad Johnson for a 2010 3rd round pick, while you won't accept, you should make mental note that JoeBlow is indeed interested in Chad Johnson.

Come week 4, when he's 3-1 and believing he has a shot to win it all, probably a good time to renew Chad Johnson talks. Lets say JoeBlow owns AJ, who of course gets injured week 3. Again you remember he had an interest in Chad Johnson, and you can be quick to strike an offer when the injury hits. Same goes for bye weeks. Another good idea is to see why people lost during any given week. If JoeBlows WRs scored 2, 0, 1 and he lost by 10 points, he'll be really focusing on his WRs that week. Another great time to hit him up with a CJ offer.

And it doesn't stop there. So JoeBlow wants to steal CJ for nothing. It also means he might have a need at WR. Again something to watch during the year. A bye week, injury, close lose due to underperforming WRs, creates a great spot for you to strike a deal. Go check the staff rankings, there are players 20+ spots apart. Sure you’ve been wearing your SA jersey since 2001, doesn’t mean everyone likes him. People have vastly different rankings for players, it’s hardly mind blowing.

This is pretty standard in most forms of business. You think Yahoo responded "OMFGZORS GO SCK A GOAT **** BILL!" when M$ offered $27 a share 6 months ago? An offer shows interest, perhaps not enough to get a fair deal, but that could change in the future. Always play it smart, don't let them know you're an emotional 12 year old girl, and keep your cool.

Or you could txt your FF buddy "OMG DUDE GET THIS" messages for the next hour.

 

[Gary Davenport]

People who get offended at offers lack any sort of emotionally maturity.In any kind of business, any offer is welcomed. You can always learn something from it. If JoeBlow wants Chad Johnson for a 2010 3rd round pick, while you won't accept, you should make mental note that JoeBlow is indeed interested in Chad Johnson.Come week 4, when he's 3-1 and believing he has a shot to win it all, probably a good time to renew Chad Johnson talks. Lets say JoeBlow owns AJ, who of course gets injured week 3. Again you remember he had an interest in Chad Johnson, and you can be quick to strike an offer when the injury hits. Same goes for bye weeks. Another good idea is to see why people lost during any given week. If JoeBlows WRs scored 2, 0, 1 and he lost by 10 points, he'll be really focusing on his WRs that week. Another great time to hit him up with a CJ offer.And it doesn't stop there. So JoeBlow wants to steal CJ for nothing. It also means he might have a need at WR. Again something to watch during the year. A bye week, injury, close lose due to underperforming WRs, creates a great spot for you to strike a deal. Go check the staff rankings, there are players 20+ spots apart. Sure you’ve been wearing your SA jersey since 2001, doesn’t mean everyone likes him. People have vastly different rankings for players, it’s hardly mind blowing. This is pretty standard in most forms of business. You think Yahoo responded "OMFGZORS GO SCK A GOAT **** BILL!" when M$ offered $27 a share 6 months ago? An offer shows interest, perhaps not enough to get a fair deal, but that could change in the future. Always play it smart, don't let them know you're an emotional 12 year old girl, and keep your cool. Or you could txt your FF buddy "OMG DUDE GET THIS" messages for the next hour.

I for one am fine with the "starting point" offers. It's the lowballing tool (just about every league has one) that gets on my nerves.I understand the other guy's hoping for the best deal possible. So am I. Doesn't mean he has to insult my intelligence and then get butthurt when I don't accept his ridiculous offer.I think part of the problem is that too often people fall into the trap of thinking they have to "win" the trade, as opposed to just trying to strike a deal that improves their team. So what if the other guy gets better too? Depending on the context that trade that looks bad on paper may be the one that puts you over the hump.

 

[munchkin]

Maybe I'm too nice for fantasy football... but if I offer a trade, I look at it from both sides and try to find something that will help both teams.

I'm the same way, and I've become known as a guy who offers solid deals. The downside to that is my first offer is pretty close to my best offer - I sometimes don't leave myself a lot of negotiating room, and some guys like to negotiate just to negotiate (which is silly, but to each their own.)And while I'll look at any offer, I don't get the guys that offer to trade their scraps for good players - I realize everyone values players differently, but there are some deals I am offered that are just ridiculous.

I believe there is a real learning curve when it comes to evaluating players and formulating trades. I am going into my 4th year in a dynasty league after playing for a few years in on-line redraft leagues. Looking back I realize how little I knew about putting and keeping a team together long term. It's one thing to maintain a short term year to year redraft roster and yet another to keep a dynasty team competitive. I have learned a lot from this site and the discussions that go on regarding player value and long and short term potential. A trade I would have thought equitable/inequitable 3 years ago may be looked at differently now. Some of the analysis that posters do here such as the discussion going on in 2nd and 3rd year WR's thread is invaluable. When a poster takes the time and effort to seek out and post the YAC for the top players in a given year that is worth a lot. The long and short of it is this site has helped me become more informed in evaluating trade offers on both the giving and receiving end.

 

[coolnerd]

People who get offended at offers lack any sort of emotionally maturity.

In any kind of business, any offer is welcomed. You can always learn something from it. If JoeBlow wants Chad Johnson for a 2010 3rd round pick, while you won't accept, you should make mental note that JoeBlow is indeed interested in Chad Johnson.

Come week 4, when he's 3-1 and believing he has a shot to win it all, probably a good time to renew Chad Johnson talks. Lets say JoeBlow owns AJ, who of course gets injured week 3. Again you remember he had an interest in Chad Johnson, and you can be quick to strike an offer when the injury hits. Same goes for bye weeks. Another good idea is to see why people lost during any given week. If JoeBlows WRs scored 2, 0, 1 and he lost by 10 points, he'll be really focusing on his WRs that week. Another great time to hit him up with a CJ offer.

And it doesn't stop there. So JoeBlow wants to steal CJ for nothing. It also means he might have a need at WR. Again something to watch during the year. A bye week, injury, close lose due to underperforming WRs, creates a great spot for you to strike a deal. Go check the staff rankings, there are players 20+ spots apart. Sure you’ve been wearing your SA jersey since 2001, doesn’t mean everyone likes him. People have vastly different rankings for players, it’s hardly mind blowing.

This is pretty standard in most forms of business. You think Yahoo responded "OMFGZORS GO SCK A GOAT **** BILL!" when M$ offered $27 a share 6 months ago? An offer shows interest, perhaps not enough to get a fair deal, but that could change in the future. Always play it smart, don't let them know you're an emotional 12 year old girl, and keep your cool.

Or you could txt your FF buddy "OMG DUDE GET THIS" messages for the next hour.

I for one am fine with the "starting point" offers. It's the lowballing tool (just about every league has one) that gets on my nerves.I understand the other guy's hoping for the best deal possible. So am I. Doesn't mean he has to insult my intelligence and then get butthurt when I don't accept his ridiculous offer.

I think part of the problem is that too often people fall into the trap of thinking they have to "win" the trade, as opposed to just trying to strike a deal that improves their team. So what if the other guy gets better too? Depending on the context that trade that looks bad on paper may be the one that puts you over the hump.

For some reason, this was a bigger problem for me this off-season than in more recent years. I know across three or four leagues, I talked with owners who just had to get a little extra in a trade situation where we had established the fair value. The extra in itself was never huge, stuff like adding a last round rookie pick, or instead of pick 27 would you take pick 29? IMO, this violates the spirit of "partnership" more than just a flat bad trade offer. With a bad trade offer, either the player does not know value or it is just his way, but when you a going back and forth there is a trust that you are attempting to strike a fair deal. all of that work becomes derailed by the 11th hour need to get enough added to make it seems like you "won." In the long term, not a good way to deal with people over a long-term relationship.

 

[trollmonger]

I don't know if you have to "overpay" but you should make fair offers.

In dynasty, or in my case a deep keeper league, some teams are building for the future while others are trying to win a championship. This makes for ease of trades with teams of different objectives.

I made two trades last year that I thought were fair but turned out terribly unfair in my favour. Just yesterday, I offered both trading partners some compensation.

Even with the compensation, I probably come out ahead in both trades but my hope is that I will be seen as a fair trader and not a shark trying to take advantage of others. I hope this leads to trust and future trades.

Not to hijack the thread, but are you saying that you gave them something for nothing just because an earlier trade turned out to be in your favor? As a commish, I would never allow this. Caveat emptor...To the point at hand, I will definitely overpay to get that final piece to the puzzle (assuming I am going for the ring this year, and not in a rebuilding mode). I won't overpay for any of the building blocks (even if they are great players) but I will definitely do it to put me over the top.

Yeah, that's pretty much what it is. I haven't run it by the commish yet so we'll see what he thinks about it. To be honest, I think he'll let it go. Most league members would like to bring my team back to the pack. The league may be on the verge of collapse as some owner's are getting frustrated with the same few teams being strong year after year.But I should also clarify a bit. In both cases, I proposed a performance based amendment to the deal. In one case, if Alexander doesn't meet some minimal stats, I will send him a draft pick. In the other, if Grant exceeds some minimum stats, I will send a pick.

 

[Musesboy]

I agree with this approach too.

Here's an article I wrote expressing my thoughts...

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2006/0...aldersley01.php

 

[Mister CIA]

People who get offended at offers lack any sort of emotionally maturity.In any kind of business, any offer is welcomed. You can always learn something from it. If JoeBlow wants Chad Johnson for a 2010 3rd round pick, while you won't accept, you should make mental note that JoeBlow is indeed interested in Chad Johnson.Come week 4, when he's 3-1 and believing he has a shot to win it all, probably a good time to renew Chad Johnson talks. Lets say JoeBlow owns AJ, who of course gets injured week 3. Again you remember he had an interest in Chad Johnson, and you can be quick to strike an offer when the injury hits. Same goes for bye weeks. Another good idea is to see why people lost during any given week. If JoeBlows WRs scored 2, 0, 1 and he lost by 10 points, he'll be really focusing on his WRs that week. Another great time to hit him up with a CJ offer.And it doesn't stop there. So JoeBlow wants to steal CJ for nothing. It also means he might have a need at WR. Again something to watch during the year. A bye week, injury, close lose due to underperforming WRs, creates a great spot for you to strike a deal. Go check the staff rankings, there are players 20+ spots apart. Sure you’ve been wearing your SA jersey since 2001, doesn’t mean everyone likes him. People have vastly different rankings for players, it’s hardly mind blowing. This is pretty standard in most forms of business. You think Yahoo responded "OMFGZORS GO SCK A GOAT **** BILL!" when M$ offered $27 a share 6 months ago? An offer shows interest, perhaps not enough to get a fair deal, but that could change in the future. Always play it smart, don't let them know you're an emotional 12 year old girl, and keep your cool. Or you could txt your FF buddy "OMG DUDE GET THIS" messages for the next hour.

I've learned to like people who porpose low ball offers, because I can get in touch with my inner mature self and send them all l kinds of low ball offers in return. Plus it has the added benefit of letting them know I'm interested in the best players on their rosters.

 

[FantasyTrader]

From my personal experience, there have been a few times I've e-mailed offers in good faith (or even sent an extremely lobsided offer in their favor just to start the negotiations) and been accused of sending a low-ball offer. Player valuation can wildly fluctuate from owner to owner. I don't ever laugh at an offer I get because, as far as I know, it was sent in good faith based on the other guys valuation of the players involved. And when you respond with a sarchastic, "Get that crap out of here!" you're only hurting yourself. First, you've just trashed any chance at negotiation. Second, if the guy was sending a genuine offer you've embarrassed him to the point that he'll think twice about ever sending you another offer.

If you are one of the better fantasy football owners in your league, you need to realize that you're ALWAYS the seller and your opponent is ALWAYS the buyer. If you were a business owner, you'd never insult your customers.

I've found a better way to handle those situations is to give the other guy a chance to save face without embarrassing him. Something like, "I'm curious as to why you wanted to include my 1st round pick next year in that deal. When I break down the offer, I'd be giving Palmer for Garrard which would be an upgrade for you and the Running Backs involved are comparable. Would you agree with that?" That response leaves the other owner with the ability to save face and amend the values he's putting on the players involved. It also promotes negotiation - and that's always where you want them is at the table...NEGOTIATING.

 

[Londo]

I don't know if you have to "overpay" but you should make fair offers.

In dynasty, or in my case a deep keeper league, some teams are building for the future while others are trying to win a championship. This makes for ease of trades with teams of different objectives.

I made two trades last year that I thought were fair but turned out terribly unfair in my favour. Just yesterday, I offered both trading partners some compensation.

Even with the compensation, I probably come out ahead in both trades but my hope is that I will be seen as a fair trader and not a shark trying to take advantage of others. I hope this leads to trust and future trades.

Not to hijack the thread, but are you saying that you gave them something for nothing just because an earlier trade turned out to be in your favor? As a commish, I would never allow this. Caveat emptor...To the point at hand, I will definitely overpay to get that final piece to the puzzle (assuming I am going for the ring this year, and not in a rebuilding mode). I won't overpay for any of the building blocks (even if they are great players) but I will definitely do it to put me over the top.

Yeah, that's pretty much what it is. I haven't run it by the commish yet so we'll see what he thinks about it. To be honest, I think he'll let it go. Most league members would like to bring my team back to the pack. The league may be on the verge of collapse as some owner's are getting frustrated with the same few teams being strong year after year.But I should also clarify a bit. In both cases, I proposed a performance based amendment to the deal. In one case, if Alexander doesn't meet some minimal stats, I will send him a draft pick. In the other, if Grant exceeds some minimum stats, I will send a pick.

Gotcha. That's a horse of a different color. I am all for performance clauses as I think they are sometimes a good way to grease the skids on a close trade.

 

[GregR_2]

I don't know if you have to "overpay" but you should make fair offers.

In dynasty, or in my case a deep keeper league, some teams are building for the future while others are trying to win a championship. This makes for ease of trades with teams of different objectives.

I made two trades last year that I thought were fair but turned out terribly unfair in my favour. Just yesterday, I offered both trading partners some compensation.

Even with the compensation, I probably come out ahead in both trades but my hope is that I will be seen as a fair trader and not a shark trying to take advantage of others. I hope this leads to trust and future trades.

Not to hijack the thread, but are you saying that you gave them something for nothing just because an earlier trade turned out to be in your favor? As a commish, I would never allow this. Caveat emptor...To the point at hand, I will definitely overpay to get that final piece to the puzzle (assuming I am going for the ring this year, and not in a rebuilding mode). I won't overpay for any of the building blocks (even if they are great players) but I will definitely do it to put me over the top.

Yeah, that's pretty much what it is. I haven't run it by the commish yet so we'll see what he thinks about it. To be honest, I think he'll let it go. Most league members would like to bring my team back to the pack. The league may be on the verge of collapse as some owner's are getting frustrated with the same few teams being strong year after year.But I should also clarify a bit. In both cases, I proposed a performance based amendment to the deal. In one case, if Alexander doesn't meet some minimal stats, I will send him a draft pick. In the other, if Grant exceeds some minimum stats, I will send a pick.

Gotcha. That's a horse of a different color. I am all for performance clauses as I think they are sometimes a good way to grease the skids on a close trade.

I would reject it if I were your commissioner. Any conditions that are part of a trade need to be disclosed to the league at the same time as the rest of the trade. If you feel it didn't end up well for your trading partner, just express your regret that it didn't turn out win-win and tell them next time you're willing to include some conditions when you make the trade to further protect both teams.

ETA: Just to elaborate on that, there are a whole class of problems that you open up when you allow teams to not disclose terms of their trade, or when you allow them to add conditions after the fact. It circumvents the review process if a league has reviews. It is a loophole that teams can use for unethical actions like collusion, ("I know I'm giving him a good player for nothing, but it's too make up for that trade that didn't go as expected"). It is hard to justify the no-renting-player type rules when you allow teams to string trades along like that. It's just a bad precedent for a league to set.

 

[T Bell]

What follows is purely intended for dynasty leagues, rather than redrafts.The first instinct of the shark is often to take the best deal that he can get in a trade and extract the maximum from the other guy.This of course is fine in a redraft.In a dynasty it's not always the best approach.What I find in most leagues is that out of say 12 guys, only a few are really active traders. And if you want to trade with them, they need to trust you. So while you might really fleece them initially, they will then be highly sceptical of doing business with you again and your trading options will be limited.In the same way that in the real world, responsible businesses takes a partnership approach with their clients and focus on the relationship rather than the deal, so this is also worthwhile in dynasty leagues.What I am advocating is giving regular trading partners good deals that make it worth their while.How is this achievable? Basically, you need to be constantly seeking to add relative value to your team through the draft and waivers so that you can trade this extra value to gain better players.This strategy presumes that a smart dynasty owner will be seeking excellence at each position, because ultimately that's what wins leagues, and is prepared to overpay for it. In order to gain the really elite players, therefore, you need to generate enough value to allow you to overpay for the superstars and still maintain good trading relationships. The key is generating that value through smart waiver pickups and good drafting and using sites like this to be ahead of the game.Let me give you a practical example of this. Let's say you read here that a couple of RBs are impressing in minicamp and you pick them up on waivers in your league. Let's say that they win starting jobs in training camp (this is a hypothetical example, remember) and you trade them to a team in your league that has no starting RBs for a 1st round pick next year. Let's say you also do the same with a couple of other players and secure a 2nd round pick from someone else. You then package the 1st, the 2nd and a solid player for a really good player. You have probably overpaid for the really good player, but you generated that value out of nothing, and the other parties in your trades are also pleased because they got solid deals.In the long term, you keep doing this over the years, and you can put a really dominant team together. You need to maintain trust, however, keep those trading relationships good, and be relentless in seeking to add value, because that's ultimately the key to this, and of course your ability to do that is based on the depth of your knowledge.

I've been returning to this thread for a week, trying to figure out what I'm missing. I still fail to see anything revolutionary or even at all new to what you're saying.Essentially, you're "informing" us that for a trade to occur, your trading partner needs to receive some value in the deal, and better yet at a position of need on his roster. And then you expounded by saying that if you don't offer deals with that in mind, your trading partners will be less likely to pay much attention to your trade overtures in the future. This warranted a new thread? Really?

 

[munchkin]

This warranted a new thread? Really?

There are enough people who haven't had a say on this topic to bring it up for discussion. I would hope that there are new members enlisting to this site on a regular basis and trading is a large part of FF. Not everyone has been doing this for years. FF is still growing as a game and industry. I don't think it is a waste of time to go through basic principles.

If this is a boring topic to you then do what I do with Spygate threads, ignore, ignore, ignore...

 

[T Bell]

This warranted a new thread? Really?

There are enough people who haven't had a say on this topic to bring it up for discussion. I would hope that there are new members enlisting to this site on a regular basis and trading is a large part of FF. Not everyone has been doing this for years. FF is still growing as a game and industry. I don't think it is a waste of time to go through basic principles.

If this is a boring topic to you then do what I do with Spygate threads, ignore, ignore, ignore...

I disagree. If you read the original post, it's worded as if the poster had come across some new approach to trades - that's why the title calls it "a partnership approach to trading". My point is that there's nothing new about this approach. Trades need to be mutually beneficial, at least in the eyes of the trading partners at the time, to happen. Big news here.

 

[munchkin]

This warranted a new thread? Really?

There are enough people who haven't had a say on this topic to bring it up for discussion. I would hope that there are new members enlisting to this site on a regular basis and trading is a large part of FF. Not everyone has been doing this for years. FF is still growing as a game and industry. I don't think it is a waste of time to go through basic principles.

If this is a boring topic to you then do what I do with Spygate threads, ignore, ignore, ignore...

I disagree. If you read the original post, it's worded as if the poster had come across some new approach to trades - that's why the title calls it "a partnership approach to trading". My point is that there's nothing new about this approach. Trades need to be mutually beneficial, at least in the eyes of the trading partners at the time, to happen. Big news here.

I completely understand what you are saying. If you don't see any benefit in this subject, ignore it. There are obviously others who think differently.