A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust (1 Viewer)

[Ramblin Wreck]

Of course not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist, but one thing you can say about all of them is that racism wasn't a dealbreaker for them.  

What if racism and the Supreme Court are both deal breakers?

You guys need to stop attacking people with different opinions. You win the election easily if you put anyone but the most corrupt criminal in govt on the ballot. 

 

[Gary Coal Man]

To be fair, Obama and Clinton didn't start a decade-long trillion dollar war against the wrong country.

No ####.  That's the point.  The Obama Administration continued those wars (and added some other intervention).

Koya's point was asking Dodds to be vocal against Trump if his administration continues the establishment policies his voters thought he'd abandon.  

Many people on the Left voted for Obama, in part, because they thought he would have a drastically different foreign policy than Bush.  When Obama didn't differ dramatically but instead continued many of Bush's actions,  the Left was not nearly as vocal in their criticism.

If you're asking my "side" to act in a manner that your "side" didn't, it's a less persuasive argument.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

How are you measuring the degree to which people are freaking out?  I seem to recall a lot of angst after W was elected for a second term but maybe I'm wrong.

It's admittedly anecdotal, but as was discussed in some other thread, people in my social circle are treating this as a national tragedy.  I really can't compare it to anything since 9/11.  People have cried at work.  The superintendent of our school district emailed all parents telling them about the social services available for traumatized kids.  My kid's religious school cancelled their normal curriculum so that the kids could discuss the election results, and the kids talked about it for two-and-a-half hours straight, even though class is only two hours long.  Everywhere I go this is being treated as a truly extraordinary event.  I don't remember anything like that in 2004.

 

[Koya]

How are you measuring the degree to which people are freaking out?  I seem to recall a lot of angst after W was elected for a second term but maybe I'm wrong.

It was angst, but a different kind.  This is, for lack of a better term, a more existential angst.  No one (well, not many) questioned the very institutions of democracy after that election... after his getting the win his first go around in a questionable manner at that (could you imagine hanging chads in THIS environment? holy smokes).   

No one questioned the very fabric of our national community.  There was a lot of fear and concern for our country.. that a "dumb" (fair or not) guy was in the white house, who snuck in to begin with and only made things worse since he got there.  But almost to a tee, people I knew who were anti-bush would gladly "have a beer with him" and thought he was trying to do the right thing, for the right reasons.

People knew Bush CARED about them.  Or felt he did at least.

This is an agnst of someone who not only does not represent much of america, at all, but outright stands for very harmful realities.  Bush cared.  Then you could have someone who didn't care.  Then you have someone who is an actual antagonistic figure to you and your community... and a threat to you, your community and everything you feel is American.

Bush was a disaster, but at least a well intended one.  Trump is a racist bigot who has insulted POWs multiple times including Senator McCain, has admitted to sexual assault as a part of his life and entitlement as a famous person, has belittled those with disabilities - literally made fun of in a manner that would have most people's kids here grounded, spanked or both - and has used, on multiple occasions, the very language of the white-supremacist, neo-nazi movement, while then having their "establishment oriented leader" in Bannon appointed as Trumps top advisor.

Not quite the same there, don't ya think?

 

[David Dodds]

Don't forget about the spirit cooking! 

Not forgetting it at all.  I hope she and her ilk are prosecuted to the fullest for the pedophile/occult ring that the FBI has uncovered.

 

[fantasycurse42]

You guys need to stop attacking people with different opinions. You win the election easily if you put anyone but the most corrupt criminal in govt on the ballot. 

They could've put Bernie out there, would've been a landslide. They wanted to keep the political machine rolling, oblivious to what America was looking for.

 

[Koya]

No ####.  That's the point.  The Obama Administration continued those wars (and added some other intervention).

Koya's point was asking Dodds to be vocal against Trump if his administration continues the establishment policies his voters thought he'd abandon.  

Many people on the Left voted for Obama, in part, because they thought he would have a drastically different foreign policy than Bush.  When Obama didn't differ dramatically but instead continued many of Bush's actions,  the Left was not nearly as vocal in their criticism.

If you're asking my "side" to act in a manner that your "side" didn't, it's a less persuasive argument.

So, you are saying you are ok with being a push over hypocrite... because that's what the Dems did?

But ok with it, nonetheless.

 

[Koya]

Can you give an example of some left-wing propaganda that you identified and dismissed?

About 90% of my dad's facebook posts from newslo or whatever other lows or occupydemocrats and all that crap. It's not hard to see through the flashy and inflammatory headline. 

Well, if you (1) have a brain and (2) choose to actually use it.

 

[mr roboto]

I just don't think most racist people believe they are racist.   At least that is all I can come up with after much thought.

The term racist has gone from 'openly hostile and derogatory' to 'unintentionally unaware of your white privledge and accidentally participating in cultural appropriation.'  Homophobic has gone from 'actively hating and shunning gays' to 'maybe questioning the wisdom of destroying objective gender concepts.'  Misogynistic has gone from 'believing women are inferior to men and shouldn't have any power outside the home' to 'accidentally using a masculine plural pronoun when addressing a mixed gender group.'

Anymore, disagreeing on policy with the left gets one labeled as a hater of some race, gender, religion or sexuality. I'd suggest the left put down the labels and engage in a real policy debate. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's admittedly anecdotal, but as was discussed in some other thread, people in my social circle are treating this as a national tragedy.  I really can't compare it to anything since 9/11.  People have cried at work.  The superintendent of our school district emailed all parents telling them about the social services available for traumatized kids.  My kid's religious school cancelled their normal curriculum so that the kids could discuss the election results, and the kids talked about it for two-and-a-half straight, even though class is only two hours long.  Everywhere I go this is being treated as a truly extraordinary event.  I don't remember anything like that in 2004.

And this all sounds...rational...to you?

 

[Zerp]

wrongTM  

 

[Skoo]

No ####.  That's the point.  The Obama Administration continued those wars (and added some other intervention).

Koya's point was asking Dodds to be vocal against Trump if his administration continues the establishment policies his voters thought he'd abandon.  

Many people on the Left voted for Obama, in part, because they thought he would have a drastically different foreign policy than Bush.  When Obama didn't differ dramatically but instead continued many of Bush's actions,  the Left was not nearly as vocal in their criticism.

If you're asking my "side" to act in a manner that your "side" didn't, it's a less persuasive argument.

Actually Obama was pretty clear about getting out of Iraq and focusing on Afghanistan, which is exactly what he did. Why would the left complain when he campaigned on doing exactly what he did?

Again, he didn't "accidentally" invade the wrong country and then stay for a decade, costing thousands of American lives and maybe 100,000 Iraqi lives.

So you can't really compare the two.

Like, at all.

 

[James Daulton]

In the end, it really is the democratic machine's fault for pushing Clinton forward.  The warning signs were certainly there but they thought that Trump was so horrid she'd be able to overcome him anyway.  Lesson learned hopefully.  

The Dems also need to learn a little about inclusion, and not just inclusion of non-whites, don't just cast off the working class whites and their issues. 

 

[IC FBGCav]

The term racist has gone from 'openly hostile and derogatory' to 'unintentionally unaware of your white privledge and accidentally participating in cultural appropriation.'  Homophobic has gone from 'actively hating and shunning gays' to 'maybe questioning the wisdom of destroying objective gender concepts.'  Misogynistic has gone from 'believing women are inferior to men and shouldn't have any power outside the home' to 'accidentally using a masculinity be plural pronoun when addressing a mixed gender group.'

Anymore, disagreeing on policy with the left gets one labeled as a hater of some race, gender, religion or sexuality. I'd suggest the left put down the labels and engage in a real policy debate. 

I know people who have openly used the N word when talking about Obama, then they won't when black people are around.   They don't think they are racist.   I happen to think they are. 

Also, I am to the point that I believe I am the only white person on the planet that actually see people being racist that are not KKK or Skin heads.    

 

[Koya]

It's admittedly anecdotal, but as was discussed in some other thread, people in my social circle are treating this as a national tragedy.  I really can't compare it to anything since 9/11.  People have cried at work.  The superintendent of our school district emailed all parents telling them about the social services available for traumatized kids.  My kid's religious school cancelled their normal curriculum so that the kids could discuss the election results, and the kids talked about it for two-and-a-half straight, even though class is only two hours long.  Everywhere I go this is being treated as a truly extraordinary event.  I don't remember anything like that in 2004.

I have a friend (lives in LA, so about as "safe" from this as possible) who's kids have been crying every night since the election worried about how they will be treated by classmates and adults, by the police... because the kids are of central american descent, but adopted by my friend and his wife.

This is the world my friend has helped give us... and hence my angst at those who supported a campaign that was DESIGNED to do this.  Not exactly a nuanced or gray area in this case, pretty cut and dry. 

 

[SIDA!]

People knew Bush CARED about them.  Or felt he did at least.

This is such bull####. The left were talking about how Bush and the Republicans were killing old people, starving students, spreading hate for gays, etc.

The only difference between now and then is:

1. The ####ification of America has spread at a rapid rate

2. The lemmings on the left believe their own hype and are now shook and triggered.

 

[fantasycurse42]

And this all sounds...rational...to you?

Love the "how do I explain this to the kids shtick."

 

[knowledge dropper]

As a well-educated, Catholic, white male from Ohio I was attacked by the Hillary Campaign for my geography "white trash" as well as religious beliefs.  

I feel your pain.  I know I would be upset if that racist, sexist, and papist mindset had been allowed to take power.  I had real fear for me and my family.  Now we have a leader committed to making all Americans great again. 

It's beautiful thing. 

 

[mr roboto]

I have a friend (lives in LA, so about as "safe" from this as possible) who's kids have been crying every night since the election worried about how they will be treated by classmates and adults, by the police... because the kids are of central american descent, but adopted by my friend and his wife.

This is the world my friend has helped give us... and hence my angst at those who supported a campaign that was DESIGNED to do this.  Not exactly a nuanced or gray area in this case, pretty cut and dry. 

Who fostered this ridiculous fear of the police?  Trump?

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I've posted this in a couple other threads but I'll say it here too, this election really seems like that blue/black or white/gold dress thing from last year where people on either side really have no effing clue what the other side is seeing. Definitely true for me. I've voted both Republican and Democrat in my adult life and have always been able to at least see the logic in people voting the other way. I have no freaking clue this time, at least when it comes to informed voters. 

I just hope it has more to do with these specific candidates than a systemic change related to how we seek out and process news and media. 

 

[msommer]

Empathy at it's finest. Come together now, unify.

 

[Koya]

Now assume the friends are part of the 29% of Latino voters who went with Trump.

Okay, kind of being a wiseguy, but kind of serious.  I'm assuming they're white, which also makes it easier to look at the racism angle and question their beliefs, but doesn't that number suggest there could be other legitimate rationale for their votes and give you reason to be charitable in assuming the best of your friends rather than the worst?

Don't even get me started with this group!  Those I know are literally concerned about travelling to certain places now, especially outside of "urban areas" (these are successful professionals mind you).

I can see Trump's persona resonating with what is, in many circles, a very do it yourself, entrepreneurial culture.  But the only thing I can think of that parallels voting against your own self interest in such a stark manner is the continual republican vote from poor whites.  Boggles the mind.  

FWIW, I'd question THERE judgement in terms of caring for my children even moreso than my friends.  Scary, really.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

And this all sounds...rational...to you?

Well, yes.  I've been pretty depressed myself.  I've had a tough time getting work done or doing other things from my normal routine (e.g., exercise, practicing guitar). 

 

[Koya]

Who fostered this ridiculous fear of the police?  Trump?

Do I really need to explain? Because I don't have the effort.  

It certainly was not his one white, one asian, upper middle class parents who have probably never had a bad encounter with the cops.  It's TV, the media, what they hear from friends. 

 

[Jayrod]

If kids are crying about this election, that's on the parents.  They have instilled an irrational fear in their children.

And the fear is completely irrational.  There is nothing tangible for Koya, or some Central American adopted kids to worry about since the election took place.  The SS isn't coming door to door to round them up and bullying isn't suddenly going to be acceptable behavior.  Hate crimes will still be illegal and prosecuted at such.  The isolated incidents of racism being reported are being squashed and ridiculed by the country.  Racism, anti-Semitism and gay bashing aren't suddenly becoming acceptable because Trump was elected.  Calm the heck down.

 

[Koya]

Also, I am to the point that I believe I am the only white person on the planet that actually see people being racist that are not KKK or Skin heads.    

Not at all.  It's just some of us aren't cool with folks supporting and voting for a campaign that is strongly aligned with the goals of the KKK or skin heads.  So, they are a bit racist... no more than most perhaps... but then choose to elect a racist who is aligning with the worst of the racists out there.

That paints a bit uglier a picture, don't you think?

 

[msommer]

i'll never understand people that judge others character on their political votes/ideas.    

there are great people from all sides of the political debate.   Judge people on their actions, not their politics.

To vote is an action

 

[Jayrod]

Not at all.  It's just some of us aren't cool with folks supporting and voting for a campaign that is strongly aligned with the goals of the KKK or skin heads.  So, they are a bit racist... no more than most perhaps... but then choose to elect a racist who is aligning with the worst of the racists out there.

That paints a bit uglier a picture, don't you think?

Big. Red. X.

There is not strong aligning with the goals of white supremacist groups.  Wherever you are hearing this, you need to stop listening to them.

 

[mr roboto]

Do I really need to explain? Because I don't have the effort.  

It certainly was not his one white, one asian, upper middle class parents who have probably never had a bad encounter with the cops.  It's TV, the media, what they hear from friends. 

 Precisely my point. It's the fear mongering echo chamber of national media praying on people's fears to get ratings, followed by your friends inability to explain to their children that Donald Trump is not going to deport them.

 It's not like there are going to be brown shirts and black shirts walking around snatching up anybody who looks less than white and sending their ### to another country.  If my kid believe that and was afraid of it I would have a responsibility to explain to them that the police are there for your protection service and that they are here legally and have absolutely nothing to fear from Donald Trump or any other national local elected official.

 

[Koya]

If kids are crying about this election, that's on the parents.  They have instilled an irrational fear in their children.

And the fear is completely irrational.  There is nothing tangible for Koya, or some Central American adopted kids to worry about since the election took place.  The SS isn't coming door to door to round them up and bullying isn't suddenly going to be acceptable behavior.  Hate crimes will still be illegal and prosecuted at such.  The isolated incidents of racism being reported are being squashed and ridiculed by the country.  Racism, anti-Semitism and gay bashing aren't suddenly becoming acceptable because Trump was elected.  Call the heck down.

I really hope you look at the coming days and weeks with this in mind, because I fear you are quite wrong.  I hope you are right, but there has already been a decided uptick in hate crimes and harassment.  It is more acceptable, in some circles, at the least, to be open and public about the underlying racism.

This is already happening, I ask that you kindly open your eyes to it, because it's real, and it's doing harm. Like I said, if you appoint Bannon, then own your piece of the responsibility pie.  Otherwise, come out strongly against this bull####, disassociate yourself from Bannon and those who are tied into the white-nationalist movement and we can have a discussion.  

 

[Sweet J]

2. The lemmings on the left believe their own hype and are now shook and triggered.

Neither party has a monopoly on lemmings. You live in an awfully delicate house to be throwing those particular rocks. We all know about everyday republican folk who believe the drivel that comes out of the right wing media machine.  Recall: How many registered republicans think Obama is a Muslim?  

 

[Koya]

Big. Red. X.

There is not strong aligning with the goals of white supremacist groups.  Wherever you are hearing this, you need to stop listening to them.

Bannon.  

Come on man, seriously?  That was the whole ####### impetus for my emotive realization today.  

 

[Politician Spock]

Great thread. 

 

[Koya]

Neither party has a monopoly on lemmings. You live in an awfully delicate house to be throwing those particular rocks. We all know about everyday republican folk who believe the drivel that comes out of the right wing media machine.  Recall: How many registered republicans think Obama is a Muslim?  

He also has no idea who the "left" is, as it clearly includes anyone who is incredulous with where we are as a nation and does not align with his particular viewpoints. 

Then again, I suppose if you align yourself at the far far right, everyone is left. 

 

[Koya]

Great thread. 

You didn't have to join.  

Seriously. 

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Don't forget about the spirit cooking! 

I might go to Comet tonight.  That is truly the weirdest thing to come out of this. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Someone call the muscle. We need our safe space back. 

 

[Politician Spock]

You didn't have to join.  

Seriously. 

There's something about car wrecks that make people naturally slow down and look. Call me a rubbernecker. 

 

[Sweet J]

Love the "how do I explain this to the kids shtick."

I've been SOOOOO tempted reply to the "how do I explain to my daughters that a sexual predator just got elected????"

with:

"Tell them the truth: There is no God, Santa Clause is dead, and a shocking percentage of girls/women will get raped in their lifetimes. They might as well know now where they stand."

But my step mother convinced me that this response probably wasn't healthy. And probably evidenced anger issues.

 

[Todem]

It's admittedly anecdotal, but as was discussed in some other thread, people in my social circle are treating this as a national tragedy.  I really can't compare it to anything since 9/11.  People have cried at work.  The superintendent of our school district emailed all parents telling them about the social services available for traumatized kids.  My kid's religious school cancelled their normal curriculum so that the kids could discuss the election results, and the kids talked about it for two-and-a-half hours straight, even though class is only two hours long.  Everywhere I go this is being treated as a truly extraordinary event.  I don't remember anything like that in 2004.

This is ####### insane.

GTFOH. This is exactly why our country is divided. We have seriously bat crazy people. And they can vote too.

Lord oh mighty. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I really hope you look at the coming days and weeks with this in mind, because I fear you are quite wrong.  I hope you are right, but there has already been a decided uptick in hate crimes and harassment.  It is more acceptable, in some circles, at the least, to be open and public about the underlying racism. 

There have always been idiots in this world. If they think that all of a sudden they have permission to let their inner-idiot out because Trump was elected, they will soon find out what a poor idea that is.

There are still plenty of good and rational people in the world that will put them in their place. If this is happening in schools, those kids will be suspended. If it happens in the streets, those people will be arrested.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

This is ####### insane.

GTFOH. This is exactly why our country is divided. We seriously bat crazy people. And they can vote too.

Lord oh mighty. 

We ELECT crazy people.  None of that seems any different than what Trump himself wrote on Twitter during the 2012 when he thought Romney won the popular vote. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

It's interesting to me that over the last 15 years the Right has been accused of spreading a climate of fear, and yet I don't remember anything even remotely approaching this incredibly intentional and unapologetic spreading of fear that is occurring. 

I can't stand Trump. He's a lout, a liar, a misogynist, has a thirst for power and has a massive ego. But he hasn't even been sworn in yet. Some of you need to get a firmer grip on reality, or maybe see a psychologist, grow up and stop scaring your kids. And stop acting like all the Trump voters are in line with all of his crap. If the Democrats had run Bernie Sanders the election would have been a bloodbath in his favor. Plenty of people voted for Trump while holding their nose. Stop seeing the worst in all of them. You're being as intolerant and prejudiced as you imagine them to be.

 

[Todem]

If kids are crying about this election, that's on the parents.  They have instilled an irrational fear in their children.

And the fear is completely irrational.  There is nothing tangible for Koya, or some Central American adopted kids to worry about since the election took place.  The SS isn't coming door to door to round them up and bullying isn't suddenly going to be acceptable behavior.  Hate crimes will still be illegal and prosecuted at such.  The isolated incidents of racism being reported are being squashed and ridiculed by the country.  Racism, anti-Semitism and gay bashing aren't suddenly becoming acceptable because Trump was elected.  Calm the heck down.

Dear lord man ain't that the truth.

 

[Todem]

We ELECT crazy people.  None of that seems any different than what Trump himself wrote on Twitter during the 2012 when he thought Romney won the popular vote. 

That is quite true too.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I've been SOOOOO tempted reply to the "how do I explain to my daughters that a sexual predator just got elected????"

with:

"Tell them the truth: There is no God, Santa Clause is dead, and a shocking percentage of girls/women will get raped in their lifetimes. They might as well know now where they stand."

But my step mother convinced me that this response probably wasn't healthy. And probably evidenced anger issues.

I live in the most liberal place in America, most of the people in my neighborhood are the 'elites' that America voted against. They're saying how do I explain this to my kids (referencing 2 - 5 year olds)? I'm hearing so much of it. Un####ingbelievable! If you need to explain any of this to a preschooler, you're an #######!

 

[Todem]

It's interesting to me that over the last 15 years the Right has been accused of spreading a climate of fear, and yet I don't remember anything even remotely approaching this incredibly intentional and unapologetic spreading of fear that is occurring. 

I can't stand Trump. He's a lout, a liar, a misogynist, has a thirst for power and has a massive ego. But he hasn't even been sworn in yet. Some of you need to get a firmer grip on reality, or maybe see a psychologist, grow up and stop scaring your kids. And stop acting like all the Trump voters are in line with all of his crap. If the Democrats had run Bernie Sanders the election would have been a bloodbath in his favor. Plenty of people voted for Trump while holding their nose. Stop seeing the worst in all of them. You're being as intolerant and prejudiced as you imagine them to be.

We need to start a "rational thread". I am at a loss for words with some of this stuff I reading here.

 

[Harry Manback]

Maybe Clinton smiled and appeared nice to people, but how do people really reconcile these things:

- She knew that Saudi and QATAR governments funded 9/11, yet she sold them massive weapons and took on huge donations from both.  She also was willing to take campaign contributions from additional governments that were horrible abusers of equal rights.   

- Her sloppiness with emails / protocols basically handed our worst enemies blueprints of what she would do if she were President. 

 Instead of tweeting some things that offended people, She actually did things put all of us in a lot of danger.  People voted against Hillary in record numbers.  Don't group all-Trump voters with a stereotype.  Many voted to stop the Clintons from getting to the Whitehouse.

Those that feel as strongly as Koya should have done more to get like-minded people to vote for their candidate.  49.6% of the people did not vote. A ton of these non-voter are now rioting in the streets over a system that they chose to sit out.  

Link? Is there evidence any of that was actually compromised?

 

[Nick Vermeil]

I live in the most liberal place in America, most of the people in my neighborhood are the 'elites' that America voted against. They're saying how do I explain this to my kids (referencing 2 - 5 year olds)? I'm hearing so much of it. Un####ingbelievable! If you need to explain any of this to a preschooler, you're an #######!

Some people's preschoolers are too slow to understand I guess?

 

[irish eyes]

When will the never ending whing stop!!! Geez no wonder kids in this country are such entitled pu@@ies