Aaron Hernandez arrested -- Patriots Release Hernandez (2 Viewers)

[cstu]

This is one of the craziest offseason stories that I can remember. Also crazy that it happened to a high profile player and not some random scrub.

I feel no sympathy for this guy. Sounds like a real idiot and a scumbag. You're sitting on a 40 million dollar contract and you can't stay out of trouble?

Unless I'm mistaken he's the highest profile active offensive player to be charged with a serious crime. For the FF community the the biggest criminal case I can remember.

Edit: Stay out of trouble? How about just not shooting people?

Rae Carruth disagrees

Carruth wasn't thought of much for fantasy after his rookie year. I'd compare him to the way Lafell is viewed now.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Frankly, the Patriots could start the season with the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.

Jets and Raiders in the mix, but yes this group is terrible.

I don't get the Jets part.

Really? Let me make it clear:

Santonio Holmes

Stephen Hill
Jeremy Kerley
Royce Pollard
Titus Ryan
Jordan White
Clyde Gates
Joe Collins

 

[We Tigers]

Regardless of what the "supposed" cap hit is supposed to be, I doubt it plays out like that. New England has a tight window to win in with Brady. As much as they may want to do the right thing, NFL teams main goals are trying to win.

Without any evidence at all, I am stating that Roger Goodell and the Patriots have a gentleman's agreement to handle this as if he is released AFTER the conviction.

Not a chance. The CBA is the CBA and the rules are the rules. The cap is the most important number for a franchise, you don't just allow modifications to it for random teams.

Sean Taylor died and the Redskins got no cap relief. No way the Patriots are getting it for having this imbecile on their books.

Taylor is the big example of why it would be insane for Goodell to help the Pats here. The Falcons also had to eat $7 million for Vick when they released him. The rest of the league would riot if the Patriots got special dispensation.

 

[cstu]

Frankly, the Patriots could start the season with the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.

Jets and Raiders in the mix, but yes this group is terrible.

I don't get the Jets part.

Really? Let me make it clear:

Santonio Holmes

Stephen Hill
Jeremy Kerley
Royce Pollard
Titus Ryan
Jordan White
Clyde Gates
Joe Collins

Kellen Winslow Jr. FTW!

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Frankly, the Patriots could start the season with the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.

Jets and Raiders in the mix, but yes this group is terrible.

I don't get the Jets part.

Really? Let me make it clear:

Santonio Holmes

Stephen Hill
Jeremy Kerley
Royce Pollard
Titus Ryan
Jordan White
Clyde Gates
Joe Collins

Doesn't matter, everyone knows that great QBs make their WRs anyway..........................................................

Oh wait, nevermind

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

wtf

 

[Mentos]

Frankly, the Patriots could start the season with the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.

Jets and Raiders in the mix, but yes this group is terrible.

I don't get the Jets part.

Really? Let me make it clear:Santonio Holmes

Stephen Hill

Jeremy Kerley

Royce Pollard

Titus Ryan

Jordan White

Clyde Gates

Joe Collins

Sorry. I incorrectly interpreted the quote you quoted.

 

[Shawn]

Shark move is to grab Ballard two weeks ago....

Shark move is to get Vereen...

^thisI already had him rostered just in case Hernandez got hurt... guess going to jail is just as good a reason

 

[David Dodds]

I am not saying the cap hit will be zero. I am saying it will be based on what it would be if the Patriots released him AFTER the conviction. And I think Goodell has the power to do exactly that.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I am not saying the cap hit will be zero. I am saying it will be based on what it would be if the Patriots released him AFTER the conviction. And I think Goodell has the power to do exactly that.

I doubt the NFL interferes at all in this. Patriots could have kept him on the roster, fined him for not showing up to training camp, terminated the contract and gone after the signing bonus when he failed to show up for the regular season. But they opted to eat the money to avoid reduce the circus around the team while this story plays out in court.

 

[cstu]

I am not saying the cap hit will be zero. I am saying it will be based on what it would be if the Patriots released him AFTER the conviction. And I think Goodell has the power to do exactly that.

I doubt the NFL interferes at all in this. Patriots could have kept him on the roster, fined him for not showing up to training camp, terminated the contract and gone after the signing bonus when he failed to show up for the regular season. But they opted to eat the money to avoid reduce the circus around the team while this story plays out in court.

I agree with Dodds. Goodell is extremely protective of the NFL's image and if it's possible (I don't know that it is) he'll help the Patriots out.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Regardless of what the "supposed" cap hit is supposed to be, I doubt it plays out like that. New England has a tight window to win in with Brady. As much as they may want to do the right thing, NFL teams main goals are trying to win.

Without any evidence at all, I am stating that Roger Goodell and the Patriots have a gentleman's agreement to handle this as if he is released AFTER the conviction.

Not a chance. The CBA is the CBA and the rules are the rules. The cap is the most important number for a franchise, you don't just allow modifications to it for random teams.

Sean Taylor died and the Redskins got no cap relief. No way the Patriots are getting it for having this imbecile on their books.

Taylor is the big example of why it would be insane for Goodell to help the Pats here. The Falcons also had to eat $7 million for Vick when they released him. The rest of the league would riot if the Patriots got special dispensation.

they're getting a credit for fanene, aren't they?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I am not saying the cap hit will be zero. I am saying it will be based on what it would be if the Patriots released him AFTER the conviction. And I think Goodell has the power to do exactly that.

I doubt the NFL interferes at all in this. Patriots could have kept him on the roster, fined him for not showing up to training camp, terminated the contract and gone after the signing bonus when he failed to show up for the regular season. But they opted to eat the money to avoid reduce the circus around the team while this story plays out in court.

I agree with Dodds. Goodell is extremely protective of the NFL's image and if it's possible (I don't know that it is) he'll help the Patriots out.

If anything I'd say that Goodell should let the Pats pound sand on this one.

NFL teams should be doing all they can to prevent themselves from becoming NBA 2.0 with the thugs they let in their league.

 

[Backside Pursuit]

I am not saying the cap hit will be zero. I am saying it will be based on what it would be if the Patriots released him AFTER the conviction. And I think Goodell has the power to do exactly that.

Under this (entirely plausible but still collusive and problematic) scenario, do you believe Goodell contacted the other owners this morning and asked for their verbal approval? Did he contact the other owners and say "this is how I am going to handle this"? Or did he not contact the other owners at all?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I am not saying the cap hit will be zero. I am saying it will be based on what it would be if the Patriots released him AFTER the conviction. And I think Goodell has the power to do exactly that.

I doubt the NFL interferes at all in this. Patriots could have kept him on the roster, fined him for not showing up to training camp, terminated the contract and gone after the signing bonus when he failed to show up for the regular season. But they opted to eat the money to avoid reduce the circus around the team while this story plays out in court.

I agree with Dodds. Goodell is extremely protective of the NFL's image and if it's possible (I don't know that it is) he'll help the Patriots out.

If anything I'd say that Goodell should let the Pats pound sand on this one.

NFL teams should be doing all they can to prevent themselves from becoming NBA 2.0 with the thugs they let in their league.

looooool

would what they can do include cutting the thugs?

this board is hilarious

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I am not saying the cap hit will be zero. I am saying it will be based on what it would be if the Patriots released him AFTER the conviction. And I think Goodell has the power to do exactly that.

I doubt the NFL interferes at all in this. Patriots could have kept him on the roster, fined him for not showing up to training camp, terminated the contract and gone after the signing bonus when he failed to show up for the regular season. But they opted to eat the money to avoid reduce the circus around the team while this story plays out in court.

I agree with Dodds. Goodell is extremely protective of the NFL's image and if it's possible (I don't know that it is) he'll help the Patriots out.

If anything I'd say that Goodell should let the Pats pound sand on this one.

NFL teams should be doing all they can to prevent themselves from becoming NBA 2.0 with the thugs they let in their league.

looooool

would what they can do include cutting the thugs?

this board is hilarious

They could not hire moronic employees in the first place.

Why is that such a funny concept?

 

[dgreen]

They could not hire moronic employees in the first place.


Why is that such a funny concept?

I agree it would be nice if they could avoid hiring guys who will do horrible things, but how would you go about that in practice?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

They could not hire moronic employees in the first place.


Why is that such a funny concept?

I agree it would be nice if they could avoid hiring guys who will do horrible things, but how would you go about that in practice?

Minimize the number of guys you let in that have already shown to be problem children?

I know, I know..."you're not going to win with a team full of squeaky clean players..."

 

[Sinn Fein]

They could not hire moronic employees in the first place.


Why is that such a funny concept?

I agree it would be nice if they could avoid hiring guys who will do horrible things, but how would you go about that in practice?

Minimize the number of guys you let in that have already shown to be problem children?

I know, I know..."you're not going to win with a team full of squeaky clean players..."

BYU won a national title, no?

 

[dgreen]

They could not hire moronic employees in the first place.


Why is that such a funny concept?

I agree it would be nice if they could avoid hiring guys who will do horrible things, but how would you go about that in practice?

Minimize the number of guys you let in that have already shown to be problem children?

I know, I know..."you're not going to win with a team full of squeaky clean players..."

I guess I'm mostly wondering if you are talking about an individual team establishing their own approach/policy to avoid questionable characters or a league-wide approach/policy.

A team approach would definitely limit their pool of players as compared to other teams, depending on how strictly they defined "problem children".

A league-wide approach is what I thought you were getting at and I was thinking that would be pretty tricky to implement in practice, but maybe not.

 

[moleculo]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

 

[jurb26]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

I thought the money went to the families in those cases but I'm not sure.

 

[moleculo]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

I thought the money went to the families in those cases but I'm not sure.

not talking about actual dollars, rather the accounting construct of the salary cap.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

 

[Bruce Hammond]

I think guys in here suggesting NFL teams do a better job of avoiding problem children are right, but of course the temptation is very strong for NFL teams to take an uber talented player anyway and hope they can influence him and he will mature.

I am seeing teams do a better job of discounting potential in a player when there is greater associated risk since the new CBA with its greater penalties for teams was signed. Someone like Da'Rick Rogers was probably a 1st or 2nd round talent, was discounted to a 3rd round grade by some scouting services I saw, and yet he went completely undrafted. Buffalo signed him as an UDFA and immediately told him it's zero tolerance, one significant character slip up of any sort and he's gone.

I think players with checkered histories will be discounted more and more by most teams, while there will be a few maverick owners who decide to take their chances. There was a lot of risk in Dez Bryant and (so far) he has survived, and that probably makes Jerry Jones more willing to take risks going forward. Robert Kraft, however... well, I think we all know where he'll stand going forward.

Generally, players who are great talents but have shown themselves to lack the discipline and maturity to function within the law as responsible adults are going to find it harder and harder to get drafted high and to make teams. In turn, football factories like Florida, Ohio State, and many others are going to have to get more serious about character of their recruits rather than actively recruiting problem players (even violating recruiting rules to get them) and then looking the other way when the players violate rules. This gets tricky because alumni want winning at all costs and that creates pressure, but I think in time, if the NFL no longer seeks these types of players, colleges will have to fall in line and recruit better citizens if they want to remain strong NFL conduits.

 

[moleculo]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I think guys in here suggesting NFL teams do a better job of avoiding problem children are right, but of course the temptation is very strong for NFL teams to take an uber talented player anyway and hope they can influence him and he will mature.

I am seeing teams do a better job of discounting potential in a player when there is greater associated risk since the new CBA with its greater penalties for teams was signed. Someone like Da'Rick Rogers was probably a 1st or 2nd round talent, was discounted to a 3rd round grade by some scouting services I saw, and yet he went completely undrafted. Buffalo signed him as an UDFA and immediately told him it's zero tolerance, one significant character slip up of any sort and he's gone.

I think players with checkered histories will be discounted more and more by most teams, while there will be a few maverick owners who decide to take their chances. There was a lot of risk in Dez Bryant and (so far) he has survived, and that probably makes Jerry Jones more willing to take risks going forward. Robert Kraft, however... well, I think we all know where he'll stand going forward.

Generally, players who are great talents but have shown themselves to lack the discipline and maturity to function within the law as responsible adults are going to find it harder and harder to get drafted high and to make teams. In turn, football factories like Florida, Ohio State, and many others are going to have to get more serious about character of their recruits rather than actively recruiting problem players (even violating recruiting rules to get them) and then looking the other way when the players violate rules. This gets tricky because alumni want winning at all costs and that creates pressure, but I think in time, if the NFL no longer seeks these types of players, colleges will have to fall in line and recruit better citizens if they want to remain strong NFL conduits.

he'll stand exactly where he's been standing as long as he's owned the team

and I don't watch college ball, but I imagine when these coaches are recruiting they're thinking more about winning and cementing their position than they are developing some high school prospect for the nfl.

 

[KCitons]

I think guys in here suggesting NFL teams do a better job of avoiding problem children are right, but of course the temptation is very strong for NFL teams to take an uber talented player anyway and hope they can influence him and he will mature.

I am seeing teams do a better job of discounting potential in a player when there is greater associated risk since the new CBA with its greater penalties for teams was signed. Someone like Da'Rick Rogers was probably a 1st or 2nd round talent, was discounted to a 3rd round grade by some scouting services I saw, and yet he went completely undrafted. Buffalo signed him as an UDFA and immediately told him it's zero tolerance, one significant character slip up of any sort and he's gone.

I think players with checkered histories will be discounted more and more by most teams, while there will be a few maverick owners who decide to take their chances. There was a lot of risk in Dez Bryant and (so far) he has survived, and that probably makes Jerry Jones more willing to take risks going forward. Robert Kraft, however... well, I think we all know where he'll stand going forward.

Generally, players who are great talents but have shown themselves to lack the discipline and maturity to function within the law as responsible adults are going to find it harder and harder to get drafted high and to make teams. In turn, football factories like Florida, Ohio State, and many others are going to have to get more serious about character of their recruits rather than actively recruiting problem players (even violating recruiting rules to get them) and then looking the other way when the players violate rules. This gets tricky because alumni want winning at all costs and that creates pressure, but I think in time, if the NFL no longer seeks these types of players, colleges will have to fall in line and recruit better citizens if they want to remain strong NFL conduits.

he'll stand exactly where he's been standing as long as he's owned the team

What if he gets tired and wants to sit? Does he still have to stand?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

you have absolutely no comprehension of what we're talking about, do you?

 

[EBF]

I think guys in here suggesting NFL teams do a better job of avoiding problem children are right, but of course the temptation is very strong for NFL teams to take an uber talented player anyway and hope they can influence him and he will mature.

I am seeing teams do a better job of discounting potential in a player when there is greater associated risk since the new CBA with its greater penalties for teams was signed. Someone like Da'Rick Rogers was probably a 1st or 2nd round talent, was discounted to a 3rd round grade by some scouting services I saw, and yet he went completely undrafted. Buffalo signed him as an UDFA and immediately told him it's zero tolerance, one significant character slip up of any sort and he's gone.

I think players with checkered histories will be discounted more and more by most teams, while there will be a few maverick owners who decide to take their chances. There was a lot of risk in Dez Bryant and (so far) he has survived, and that probably makes Jerry Jones more willing to take risks going forward. Robert Kraft, however... well, I think we all know where he'll stand going forward.

Generally, players who are great talents but have shown themselves to lack the discipline and maturity to function within the law as responsible adults are going to find it harder and harder to get drafted high and to make teams. In turn, football factories like Florida, Ohio State, and many others are going to have to get more serious about character of their recruits rather than actively recruiting problem players (even violating recruiting rules to get them) and then looking the other way when the players violate rules. This gets tricky because alumni want winning at all costs and that creates pressure, but I think in time, if the NFL no longer seeks these types of players, colleges will have to fall in line and recruit better citizens if they want to remain strong NFL conduits.

After getting burned by Blackmon and Holmes in the past and watching Gordon and Hernandez implode this offseason I'm inclined to agree with you to some extent. I'm certainly going to put a little more stock in character and start to apply a discount to these talented headcases.

On the other hand, there's not always fire where there's smoke. I heard for years about what a crazy Brandon Marshall was and all he's done since then is become one of the most consistent WRs in the past decade of FF. The risk of passing on a guy like Dez or Marshall is the same for FF teams as it is for NFL teams. You could miss out on the next Moss or Irvin.

The list of elite NFL talents is extremely small. When you cut that list down to exclude everyone who has a sketchy past, the list is even smaller. Ideally you'd have a team consisting only of mega talented boy scout types like Fitzgerald and Peterson, but at some point scarcity forces you to take a chance on a player with some issues. Sometimes you get a Kenny Britt and sometimes you get a Brandon Marshall.

I certainly wouldn't take a guy like Da'Rick Rogers over someone like Cordarrelle Patterson. A premium talent with off-field issues is worth less than a premium talent with a clean record. However, I'd probably still rather have Rogers than scrap heap late rounders with minimal upside. At some point the scale flips in favor of the talented nutjob over the talentless boy scout. Talent can't be taught, but at least in some cases we've seen some players with spotty character stay out of significant trouble and yield HoF type careers (Moss, Owens, Ochocinco, and Marshall to name a few).

When a player like this burns you, it's natural to say you should've seen it coming. But nobody thinks about how lucky they are when someone like Marshall stays clean. You have to acknowledge the risk, but you also have to acknowledge the upside. Maybe Da'Rick goes the way of Clarett/Phillips/Hernandez or maybe he's a Moss/Marshall/Owens. It's hard to know until you know.

 

[Sinn Fein]

The fact that the NFL has measures in place to punish teams for players who are disciplined suggests that they will have no sympathy for the Patriots in this situation. Not to mention the other 31 owners who probably have no interest in helping the Patriots in this matter.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Drafting players is always risk/reward. There is a reason Hernandez dropped to the 4th round. NFL teams (and really all businesses) will always weigh the various risks v. rewards, and I doubt they ever eliminate all players of a certain risk level regardless of the talent level.

If anything, the Patriots failed when the re-signed Hernandez, not when they drafted him.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Drafting players is always risk/reward. There is a reason Hernandez dropped to the 4th round. NFL teams (and really all businesses) will always weigh the various risks v. rewards, and I doubt they ever eliminate all players of a certain risk level regardless of the talent level.

If anything, the Patriots failed when the re-signed Hernandez, not when they drafted him.

because it makes sense to draft an unknown guy and take the risk, but not to reward a guy for good behavior.

that makes sense.

I'm pretty sure the pats were unaware of him murdering anyone when they extended him.

 

[Tool]

Drafting players is always risk/reward. There is a reason Hernandez dropped to the 4th round. NFL teams (and really all businesses) will always weigh the various risks v. rewards, and I doubt they ever eliminate all players of a certain risk level regardless of the talent level.

If anything, the Patriots failed when the re-signed Hernandez, not when they drafted him.

because it makes sense to draft an unknown guy and take the risk, but not to reward a guy for good behavior.

that makes sense.

I'm pretty sure the pats were unaware of him murdering anyone when they extended him.

They obviously didn't ask the right questions before they gave him the contract. It would have been easy to ask if he planned on murdering anyone before his contract was up but they failed to do so. They only have themselves to blame.

 

[moleculo]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

you have absolutely no comprehension of what we're talking about, do you?

apparently not. My statement was a response to Dodds, where he was speculating that Goddell has the power to lessen the cap hit that the Pats will face. I don't believe he should do that, because no exceptions were made for more tragic events in the past.

What are you talking about?

 

[cobalt_27]

Can we put an end to all the Hernandez threads now? He has as much relevance to fantasy football and any of the upcoming 20 NFL seasons as Orenthal James Simpson.

Let's end this, already. He's D-U-N. Move on.

 

[Tool]

Can we put an end to all the Hernandez threads now? He has as much relevance to fantasy football and any of the upcoming 20 NFL seasons as Orenthal James Simpson.

Let's end this, already. He's D-U-N. Move on.

Don't read or post in them.

 

[Gawain]

They could not hire moronic employees in the first place.


Why is that such a funny concept?

I agree it would be nice if they could avoid hiring guys who will do horrible things, but how would you go about that in practice?

I tried to find statistics quick and failed, so this is speculation.

I'd bet that the murder rate for NFL players is fairly close to the murder rate for men 18-40 across the US.

We don't blame McDonalds when an employee commits a crime unrelated to his job.

 

[Phenix]

Dont know if I am late on this but I dont wanna go back thru a bunch of crap, i posted it in another thread and will post it here too.

WHOA! https://twitter.com/...4181889/photo/1

Is it me or does he look high as hell?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

you have absolutely no comprehension of what we're talking about, do you?

apparently not. My statement was a response to Dodds, where he was speculating that Goddell has the power to lessen the cap hit that the Pats will face. I don't believe he should do that, because no exceptions were made for more tragic events in the past.

What are you talking about?

it's not about making exceptions or feeling sorry for some team or for some guy, it's about the purpose behind the accounting, and in this case I'm working off the assumption that the pats sue hernandez for breach of contract to recoup a chunk of money paid, in which case it shouldn't be counted as cap.

just exactly like the fanene situation, which in that case was failure to live up to his end based on medical, rather than murdering someone.

I really have no idea about the guys you mentioned, but I never heard anything about the teams suing their estates to recoup money paid up front.

IF the pats can do this, and actually do take some of that money back, why would it count against our cap when it isn't being paid?

bear in mind, I'm openly making an assumption on this without aid of a crystal ball, but let's look at it as if a player suddenly retired.

What is the result to the Salary Cap if a player retires?

If a player retires, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in the teams Salary Cap will “accelerate” and be included in that year’s team Salary Cap.

The CBA allows the team to recover some of that signing bonus form the player. This is often referred to as the “Barry Sanders Rule”. Usually after an arbitration hearing, if a team is entitled to recover a portion of the players signing bonus, that amount is credited to the team’s following year Salary Cap.

I'd be kind of surprised if the guys you mentioned got sued for premature death, and if the pats never chase this money I see no reason they'll get credited, either, but it's 2 completely different situations that are not comparable

 

[DropKick]

I wonder if there's any verbiage in his contract which would allow them to recoup the signing bonus in this sort of situation.

This is what I don't understand about the Patriots releasing him today. I'm certain their legal team is much smarter and more informed than I am but I would've thought they would've waited for more than just an arrest to invoke the personal conduct exemption.

The Patriots know him better than any of us and they aren't willing to stand by him at all.

Most of us wouldn't stand by our own brother if ditching him meant we got to keep $10-$12 Million.

It may be the other way around - they could lose 10-12 million by releasing him.

 

[DropKick]

Cap implications.

http://overthecap.com/patriots-release-aaron-hernandez-some-cap-related-thoughts/

From his first article on the matter, the Patriots would have had MUCH more cap flexibility by waiting for the legal proceedings to play out or for Goodell to suspend him. The outright release limits their options and narrows the cards that they can play to recoup the bonus money already paid.

Throughout his two articles he's basically saying they took a moral stance and that could hurt their cap. I'm not sure it was the right move, either, but the Pats (more than any other team) seem to have a culture of accountability and want to keep that culture in tact.

Who knows if Kraft and Goodell had spoken at length about this and there was already an agreement in place for cap relief if the Pats cut him.

Legally, they would be on very shaky grounds. Regardless of whatever happens subsequently, at the time of his release, AH was not guilty of anything. Presumption of innocence is not just a feel-good idea. In any other profession, if he is subsequently exonerated, he could sue for wrongful termination. The Patriots basically released him for reasons unrelated to job performance. (I'm not saying they did the wrong thing. I'm simply saying that from a legal standpoint they have no right to "recoup" any money.) It's fine that they cut him, but the Pats have got to eat the money on this. If they don't, collusion (with Goodell) will be inferred and that's a whole other legal mess.

AH has no ability to complain about anything. It is within the an NFL team's rights to cut a player at any time. How that roster maneuver then gets reported and worked out is between the league and the Patriots, not Hernandez. Teams do not have to give any explanation why they release a player. None. There is no such thing as wrongful termination. Hernandez could have saved a bus full of kids from drowning and the Pats could have cut him and he would have had no recourse.

If Kraft went to Goodell and said the Pats could not handle the P.R. hit in continuing to roster Hernandez until things played out more, Goodell could have told Kraft it was ok to release him and the league figure out how to get NE cap relief for the salary cap hit at a later date. I'm not saying that actually happened, but I suggest there was a decent chance there was some discussion about how to go about it.

Agree with the first paragraph 100%. I'm right there with you.

As for the second paragraph, I would have very big problems if anything like that happened (and so would the NFLPA and so should every other team in the league) and I would suggest that even a hint of such a collusive scenario would open the league to potential legal action.

Perhaps the NFL owners would show more solidarity than your average owners in a fantasy football league who would steal from their brother to get a leg up.

 

[cobalt_27]

Can we put an end to all the Hernandez threads now? He has as much relevance to fantasy football and any of the upcoming 20 NFL seasons as Orenthal James Simpson.

Let's end this, already. He's D-U-N. Move on.

Don't read or post in them.

There are 15 different threads on the first page alone. No one's thought to consolidate this crap? He's done in the NFL, so it just seems like a disproportionate occupation of SP real estate.

But, if you want to go on discussing an irrelevant player, go right ahead.

 

[GregR]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

you have absolutely no comprehension of what we're talking about, do you?

apparently not. My statement was a response to Dodds, where he was speculating that Goddell has the power to lessen the cap hit that the Pats will face. I don't believe he should do that, because no exceptions were made for more tragic events in the past.

What are you talking about?

it's not about making exceptions or feeling sorry for some team or for some guy, it's about the purpose behind the accounting, and in this case I'm working off the assumption that the pats sue hernandez for breach of contract to recoup a chunk of money paid, in which case it shouldn't be counted as cap.

just exactly like the fanene situation, which in that case was failure to live up to his end based on medical, rather than murdering someone.

I really have no idea about the guys you mentioned, but I never heard anything about the teams suing their estates to recoup money paid up front.

IF the pats can do this, and actually do take some of that money back, why would it count against our cap when it isn't being paid?

bear in mind, I'm openly making an assumption on this without aid of a crystal ball, but let's look at it as if a player suddenly retired.

What is the result to the Salary Cap if a player retires?

If a player retires, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in the teams Salary Cap will “accelerate” and be included in that year’s team Salary Cap.

The CBA allows the team to recover some of that signing bonus form the player. This is often referred to as the “Barry Sanders Rule”. Usually after an arbitration hearing, if a team is entitled to recover a portion of the players signing bonus, that amount is credited to the team’s following year Salary Cap.

I'd be kind of surprised if the guys you mentioned got sued for premature death, and if the pats never chase this money I see no reason they'll get credited, either, but it's 2 completely different situations that are not comparable

The Fanene situation is part of the normal salary cap rules. If you recoup money previously charged to your cap, you get a refund.

It isn't an example of Goodell giving a team cap benefits outside of the normal rules, as was being discussed hypothetically.

 

[moleculo]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

you have absolutely no comprehension of what we're talking about, do you?

apparently not. My statement was a response to Dodds, where he was speculating that Goddell has the power to lessen the cap hit that the Pats will face. I don't believe he should do that, because no exceptions were made for more tragic events in the past. What are you talking about?

it's not about making exceptions or feeling sorry for some team or for some guy, it's about the purpose behind the accounting, and in this case I'm working off the assumption that the pats sue hernandez for breach of contract to recoup a chunk of money paid, in which case it shouldn't be counted as cap.

just exactly like the fanene situation, which in that case was failure to live up to his end based on medical, rather than murdering someone.

I really have no idea about the guys you mentioned, but I never heard anything about the teams suing their estates to recoup money paid up front.

IF the pats can do this, and actually do take some of that money back, why would it count against our cap when it isn't being paid?

bear in mind, I'm openly making an assumption on this without aid of a crystal ball, but let's look at it as if a player suddenly retired.

What is the result to the Salary Cap if a player retires?

If a player retires, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in the teams Salary Cap will accelerate and be included in that years team Salary Cap.

The CBA allows the team to recover some of that signing bonus form the player. This is often referred to as the Barry Sanders Rule. Usually after an arbitration hearing, if a team is entitled to recover a portion of the players signing bonus, that amount is credited to the teams following year Salary Cap.

I'd be kind of surprised if the guys you mentioned got sued for premature death, and if the pats never chase this money I see no reason they'll get credited, either, but it's 2 completely different situations that are not comparable

Gotcha. I've seen the Godell forgiveness angle elsewhere on the web with the assumption that there was some sort of quid pro quo agreement w/ Kraft, in terms of getting this guy immediately off an NFL payroll in exchange for cap leniency.

If the pats can recoup any money, that should be an automatic cap adjustment and Goddell need not be involved, imo.

 

[Max Power]

My guess is that the Patriots were willing to eat the extra money in hopes that news outlets would stop showing Hernandez with a Patriots logo everywhere. It has to be terrible for the brand to see the Logo and Murderer at the same time. ESPN is still running with the Pats logo in the background of Hernandez's picture.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

if they don't recoup money I don't see any particular reason for goodell to give them any kind of special dispensation, although I suppose he has the power to do whatever he wants.

they basically have paid the guy already, they are free to just leave him on the roster and wait out the trial, and if goodell doesn't want the guy in the league he could just ban him.

they did what they felt was right for the team just like cutting some underperforming sack, in which case they are not only on the hook for the cap, but future years will accelerate into the current year.

and that's the main issue really -- the acceleration of 10-12m in bonus and guarantees.

maybe they can push half of that into next year, but I doubt there's any absolution without money recouped.

for whatever it's worth, here's florio's opinion on the subject

 

[KarmaPolice]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

I didn't realize the trial has wrapped up already.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Did Goddell give the Redskins cap space after the tragic death of Sean Taylor? How about the Broncos w/ Darrent Williams?

well, I don't think hernandez has died yet.

did he give the pats cap space for fanene?

IMO, Goddell would be much more justified in allowing calary cap relief in the wake of tragic deaths of players vs a cold blooded killer.

I didn't realize the trial has wrapped up already.

Instant Karma's gonna get you

 

[hbkhbk]

I don't see any sign of remorse from Hernandez. I hope this is a sign of he didn't do it. If he did, then man, the guy is a cold blood SOB...