Addai vs Barber (1 Viewer)

[North]

I look at these two as being in similar situations. Both play on teams that have potent offenses, both will share limited carries and both have the opportunity to have big years. I think both will have good years but am wondering which in your opinion has the opportunity to have a breakout year.

 

[switz]

I look at these two as being in similar situations. Both play on teams that have potent offenses, both will share limited carries and both have the opportunity to have big years. I think both will have good years but am wondering which in your opinion has the opportunity to have a breakout year.

Barber will probably see more touches stolen by Jones than Addai will by anyone else.Addai is the more talented of the two runners, but Barber has proven to be able to absorb more punishment.Both will be their teams primary GL back, and Addai is the better GL runner. But I believe Dallas runs MORE at the GL than Indy, so Barber will likely have more opportunities, and more GL TDs.I would say Addai is a lock for more yards by a significant margin, but Barber is a lock for more TDs.As for breakout years, Addai finished top-5 in most leagues last season, I'm not sure how much more he can breakout. He will likely still be a top-5 RB. Barber IMO is closer to top-10 than top-5. They are being drafted near each other, I would take Addai. But if Barber is available later than take Barber.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Not saying it will happen... but I wouldnt be surpised to see Addai go absolutely bonkers in the receiving department. Something I dont see from Barber.

Otherwise both have about the same potential. Lots of carries, rushing yardage and touchdowns are available to each. They have both matured to the point of taking on massive roles for two of the best offensive teams in the league.

 

[Spike]

I'd have to guess neither one has more upside than they have shown to this point.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I look at these two as being in similar situations. Both play on teams that have potent offenses, both will share limited carries and both have the opportunity to have big years. I think both will have good years but am wondering which in your opinion has the opportunity to have a breakout year.

Barber will probably see more touches stolen by Jones than Addai will by anyone else.Addai is the more talented of the two runners, but Barber has proven to be able to absorb more punishment.Both will be their teams primary GL back, and Addai is the better GL runner. But I believe Dallas runs MORE at the GL than Indy, so Barber will likely have more opportunities, and more GL TDs.I would say Addai is a lock for more yards by a significant margin, but Barber is a lock for more TDs.As for breakout years, Addai finished top-5 in most leagues last season, I'm not sure how much more he can breakout. He will likely still be a top-5 RB. Barber IMO is closer to top-10 than top-5. They are being drafted near each other, I would take Addai. But if Barber is available later than take Barber.

at Switz having the first reply.....We have differences of opinion here by a good deal. I believe MB3 has more talent and Addai has a more favorable situation. Both are Top 10 backs for sure, but I trust MB3's longer term value. I'd be selling Addai now and buying MB3 if I had Addai, especially if I could get MB3 + something for Addai.

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

With Rhodes back in Indy I am not so sure anymore. Barber gets the job with a rookie behind him. Last time in Indy Rhodes definatly held Addia back. Will Felix hold Barber back?

I say flip a coin. Both nice mid first round picks. I am not afraid to take Barber before Addia this year. Especially in none PPR redrafts.

 

[Spike]

Do people really think Barber is slated to get a bump in the quantity of touches this year? I would think that would be a potentially big mistake by the Cowboys as they don't need more from that position but they cannot have less. If Barber got hurt (and, yes, I realize it can happen at any time), they would likely have a lot less production at the position. If they get approximately the same (and Felix could end up a big upgrade from Julius), they are in excellent position to do something in the postseason.

 

[travdogg]

I've seen nothing that indicates Barber will be better than Addai.

One thing I'd like to point out that doesn't seem to get brought up much in regards to Addai is, look at the 1st 4 weeks of last season. Addai scored 5 times and had at least 87 yards in each game. Why are those 1st 4 games important? Because those are the games Marvin Harrison played in. Harrison gives defenses 1 more major weapon they have to worry about and that only helps Addai.

I think Addai will finish with more touches, more yards and more TD's than Barber.

Like Switz said, Addai is top-5 and Barber is top-10. I'm of the belief that that's a pretty big difference.

 

[switz]

at Switz having the first reply.....

yeah... me being on here around noon is SO meaningful As for your comments... we'll just agree to disagree, and I'll stay staunchly where I stand on these two players.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

at Switz having the first reply.....

yeah... me being on here around noon is SO meaningful As for your comments... we'll just agree to disagree, and I'll stay staunchly where I stand on these two players.

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Both sides made good points and have to just let it play out.

 

[North]

at Switz having the first reply.....

yeah... me being on here around noon is SO meaningful As for your comments... we'll just agree to disagree, and I'll stay staunchly where I stand on these two players.

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Both sides made good points and have to just let it play out.

Thanks for the input guys.From the player reviews it seems that it's about split between these two guys. Many people have opinions on which one will be better but it seems that the consensus is that Addai will slightly outperform Barber, which isn't really a knock on Barber. In the past I have always drafted based on "breakout" potential. Many of the first round backs can be penciled in for 10 tds but I look for the ones who have an opportunity to breakout. It seems that both Addai and Barber are in that situation based on the teams they play for. I just think it's intriguing that Barber has an opportunity with a rookie behind him to have the most carries of his career, and what he might do with that opportunity.Thanks again for the insight.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

I'd have to guess neither one has more upside than they have shown to this point.

Yeah I don't know how "upside" relates to either one of them....But Addai seems like the better pick without it being particularly close.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

not sure where MB finished last year, but unless you think JA will have a better year then last year (?), you just need to decide how much Barber's stats will improve due to getting more carries....and then see how much closer that gets him to JA....depending on your definition of upside, you would have to think that MB stats will improve, while JA's may stay very close to where they were or improve/decrease slightly since he had such a good year.....

 

[baconisgood]

I would say Addai is a lock for more yards by a significant margin, but Barber is a lock for more TDs.As for breakout years, Addai finished top-5 in most leagues last season, I'm not sure how much more he can breakout. He will likely still be a top-5 RB. Barber IMO is closer to top-10 than top-5. They are being drafted near each other, I would take Addai. But if Barber is available later than take Barber.

Addai was a top 5 back last year because he had 15 total TDs to go with his 1400 total yards, he had 3 tds and 200 more yards than Barber (in one less game). The Colts had a 27 year old undrafted FA playing in his first games as a backup last year. This year they have a choice between Rhodes, who I don't think is any good at all, and Mike Hart who is clearly more talented than Keith.

Barber will probably see more touches stolen by Jones than Addai will by anyone else.

Its tough to speculate on how backups are used, Julius and Kenton had close to the same number of touches (Keith 198, Jones 187) with Keith actually starting a game and finishing up two that Addai couldn't finish. Clearly Felix is > Rhodes/Hart but I don't see him getting more touches than Julius did last year.

 

[kethnaab]

I look at these two as being in similar situations. Both play on teams that have potent offenses, both will share limited carries and both have the opportunity to have big years. I think both will have good years but am wondering which in your opinion has the opportunity to have a breakout year.

Barber will probably see more touches stolen by Jones than Addai will by anyone else.Addai is the more talented of the two runners, but Barber has proven to be able to absorb more punishment.Both will be their teams primary GL back, and Addai is the better GL runner.

well, with all due respect, I disagree 100% with every single thing you've said so far, aside from the "both will be the teams primary GL back"MBIII is more talented, will have less touches stolen, will have more yards and is a far better goal line RBbut that's the beauty of life in these parts, freedom of opinion. Addai is a decent talent in one of the best situations in the NFL. RBs in Indy are interchangeable. If Addai was truly that talented, he'd have broken 1100 yards rushing or 1500 YFS by now.

 

[switz]

Barber will probably see more touches stolen by Jones than Addai will by anyone else.Addai is the more talented of the two runners, but Barber has proven to be able to absorb more punishment.Both will be their teams primary GL back, and Addai is the better GL runner.

well, with all due respect, I disagree 100% with every single thing you've said so far, aside from the "both will be the teams primary GL back"MBIII is more talented, will have less touches stolen, will have more yards and is a far better goal line RB

More talented - I think that's highly debatable, but the more I see that argument on these boards I believe it's a term that is completely subjective.Touches stolen - they are running packages in camp where Barber is the FB and Jones is the TB. They have run some plays where Barber gets the ball then hands off the Jones on an end around. The have split out Jones wide, and in the slot. They also have run Jones out of the 1-set. They are looking for ways to get Jones involved as much as possible. Barber and Jones are clearly in RBBC.They aren't doing those things with any of the secondary RBs in Indy. Addai is the clear #1 in Indy, not RBBC. As far as GL runners... statistics prove that Addai is the better GL runner. Just do a search, someone posted not that long ago the best goalline runners statistically.

Addai is a decent talent in one of the best situations in the NFL. RBs in Indy are interchangeable. If Addai was truly that talented, he'd have broken 1100 yards rushing or 1500 YFS by now.

That's really not a fair statement at all.First season his opportunities were limited as they were splitting him in to learn the system.Last year he missed 1100 rush yards by 28 yards, wile missing one game. He missed 1500 total yards by 66 yards, while missing a game. His average yards per game were 95.7, which projects out over 1500, had he not missed one game. When people start using that type of argument, it shows they're looking for reasons to knock Addai.I still don't understand all the Addai hate on these boards.

 

[DBomb]

Not sure who actually watched football games as opposed to checking their fantasy stats. But if you actually watched games, you will see a big difference. Sure, Addai is very good. Barring an injury, he will get you 1500+ total yards and 12 or so tds. But Barber is an absolute beast when he runs the football. He runs people over, but is also very illusive. He gets from point a to b with great explosiveness. He wants to score. I think he runs at a different level than Addai. Given a full season as the featured back and barring injury, there is no question Barber has more upside than Addai. I can see him easily scoring 18 tds with 1600 total yards. Unfortunately, he probably has more downside also, because we do not know what he is capable of doing as a featured back over the course of an entire season.

all the best,

Joe

 

[Pip's Invitation]

TD-heavy = Barber. In a TD-only or TD-heavy league, I rank only LT, ADP and SJax ahead of Barber.

PPR = Addai.

Conventional scoring = take your pick. I think they will be used similarly, with Barber getting more GL looks because the Colts like to throw when they get close to the end zone, but Addai more likely to bust long runs.

 

[TheDemon]

He wants to score.

If you think Addai doesn't make a serious effort to score, you didn't watch many Colts games last season.

 

[BigJim®]

Touches stolen - they are running packages in camp where Barber is the FB and Jones is the TB. They have run some plays where Barber gets the ball then hands off the Jones on an end around. The have split out Jones wide, and in the slot. They also have run Jones out of the 1-set. They are looking for ways to get Jones involved as much as possible. Barber and Jones are clearly in RBBC.

If you say so...

Terrell Owens issued the warning this week for opposing defenses getting ready for the 2008 Dallas Cowboys."Get ready for four quarters of Marion 'The Barbarian.’ "He could have added, "and pack a lunch."The Cowboys are about to find out if Marion Barber, the starter, can bring the same insane intensity and the same brutal style of running that earned him his colorful nickname as he did as Julius Jones’ backup the last two seasons.And if he can, pity the poor linebackers and safeties who get in his way.It’s a bit of a risk for the Cowboys, because Barber is like a heat-seeking missile when it comes to contact, and that could easily lead to injury, but he’s earned this opportunity, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one that denied him his chance.Would you?There will be absolutely no change in Barber’s style of play, no quarter asked, none given.A man of few words, he still managed to make that clear this week."Do you pace yourself when you write an article?" he countered with a smile after I’d asked him if he would do that as a starter. "Or do you bring everything you have every time?"Touché.The Cowboys loved using Barber as a hammer last year, especially at the goal line and in the fourth quarter to help put teams away. Fans adored his hell-for-leather approach and clamored for him to be named the starter.Now, with Jones long gone, they will get their wish."He’ll be our feature back, certainly, because you’re talking about rookies as backup players," coach Wade Phillips said. "He took that role in the last ballgame, obviously, and had a successful game. We think he can carry the load for us."

 

[switz]

Touches stolen - they are running packages in camp where Barber is the FB and Jones is the TB. They have run some plays where Barber gets the ball then hands off the Jones on an end around. The have split out Jones wide, and in the slot. They also have run Jones out of the 1-set. They are looking for ways to get Jones involved as much as possible. Barber and Jones are clearly in RBBC.

If you say so...

Terrell Owens issued the warning this week for opposing defenses getting ready for the 2008 Dallas Cowboys.

"Get ready for four quarters of Marion 'The Barbarian.’ "

He could have added, "and pack a lunch."

The Cowboys are about to find out if Marion Barber, the starter, can bring the same insane intensity and the same brutal style of running that earned him his colorful nickname as he did as Julius Jones’ backup the last two seasons.

And if he can, pity the poor linebackers and safeties who get in his way.

It’s a bit of a risk for the Cowboys, because Barber is like a heat-seeking missile when it comes to contact, and that could easily lead to injury, but he’s earned this opportunity, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one that denied him his chance.

Would you?

There will be absolutely no change in Barber’s style of play, no quarter asked, none given.

A man of few words, he still managed to make that clear this week.

"Do you pace yourself when you write an article?" he countered with a smile after I’d asked him if he would do that as a starter. "Or do you bring everything you have every time?"

Touché.

The Cowboys loved using Barber as a hammer last year, especially at the goal line and in the fourth quarter to help put teams away. Fans adored his hell-for-leather approach and clamored for him to be named the starter.

Now, with Jones long gone, they will get their wish.

"He’ll be our feature back, certainly, because you’re talking about rookies as backup players," coach Wade Phillips said. "He took that role in the last ballgame, obviously, and had a successful game. We think he can carry the load for us."

Coachspeak... sure, they want him to be their lead back, but it will still be RBBC.Here are their actions (which speak louder than words)

The Cowboys unveiled a few formations with running backs Marion Barber and Felix Jones on the field at the same time.

Sometimes Barber will lineup at fullback in front of Jones, and at other times Jones will split out wide as a receiver. Wade Phillips hopes it will be a formation that will give defensive coordinators fits.

"The problem is deciding what you want to do, defensively," Phillips said. "If you play it as nickel defense, they may run the ball on you. If they play regular defense, if Felix is a good enough receiver, that hurts you. That’s why we’re trying to implement it offensively. Felix has to be taken more [as] a wide receiver, then it opens up the running game and vice versa. If they stay and stop the running game, then hopefully, he’s a good enough receiver that could help us there."

A number of sets also featured rookie first-rounder Felix Jones and Marion Barber sharing the backfield, a formation out of which the offense both ran and passed.

Coach Wade Phillips anticipates Jones' speed and versatility as a pass-catcher to enable the rookie to stay on the field with Barber, rather than always spelling him, creating even more potential for opposing defenses, whether Jones stays in the backfield or splits out wide.

Against such formations, "the problem is deciding what you want to do defensively," said Phillips, "whether you want to treat it as a three-wide set and bring in an extra defensive back in there, and then they run with one of the two backs.

"If we're strong enough where Felix has to be take seriously as a receiver, then it could open up the running game. If they stay to stop the run, if he's a good enough receiver, it can help us there."

BTW, my quote were from TODAY... not a month ago.

 

[Tyrion]

Touches stolen - they are running packages in camp where Barber is the FB and Jones is the TB. They have run some plays where Barber gets the ball then hands off the Jones on an end around. The have split out Jones wide, and in the slot. They also have run Jones out of the 1-set. They are looking for ways to get Jones involved as much as possible. Barber and Jones are clearly in RBBC.

If you say so...

Terrell Owens issued the warning this week for opposing defenses getting ready for the 2008 Dallas Cowboys.

"Get ready for four quarters of Marion 'The Barbarian.’ "

He could have added, "and pack a lunch."

The Cowboys are about to find out if Marion Barber, the starter, can bring the same insane intensity and the same brutal style of running that earned him his colorful nickname as he did as Julius Jones’ backup the last two seasons.

And if he can, pity the poor linebackers and safeties who get in his way.

It’s a bit of a risk for the Cowboys, because Barber is like a heat-seeking missile when it comes to contact, and that could easily lead to injury, but he’s earned this opportunity, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one that denied him his chance.

Would you?

There will be absolutely no change in Barber’s style of play, no quarter asked, none given.

A man of few words, he still managed to make that clear this week.

"Do you pace yourself when you write an article?" he countered with a smile after I’d asked him if he would do that as a starter. "Or do you bring everything you have every time?"

Touché.

The Cowboys loved using Barber as a hammer last year, especially at the goal line and in the fourth quarter to help put teams away. Fans adored his hell-for-leather approach and clamored for him to be named the starter.

Now, with Jones long gone, they will get their wish.

"He’ll be our feature back, certainly, because you’re talking about rookies as backup players," coach Wade Phillips said. "He took that role in the last ballgame, obviously, and had a successful game. We think he can carry the load for us."

Coachspeak... sure, they want him to be their lead back, but it will still be RBBC.Here are their actions (which speak louder than words)

The Cowboys unveiled a few formations with running backs Marion Barber and Felix Jones on the field at the same time.

Sometimes Barber will lineup at fullback in front of Jones, and at other times Jones will split out wide as a receiver. Wade Phillips hopes it will be a formation that will give defensive coordinators fits.

"The problem is deciding what you want to do, defensively," Phillips said. "If you play it as nickel defense, they may run the ball on you. If they play regular defense, if Felix is a good enough receiver, that hurts you. That’s why we’re trying to implement it offensively. Felix has to be taken more [as] a wide receiver, then it opens up the running game and vice versa. If they stay and stop the running game, then hopefully, he’s a good enough receiver that could help us there."

A number of sets also featured rookie first-rounder Felix Jones and Marion Barber sharing the backfield, a formation out of which the offense both ran and passed.

Coach Wade Phillips anticipates Jones' speed and versatility as a pass-catcher to enable the rookie to stay on the field with Barber, rather than always spelling him, creating even more potential for opposing defenses, whether Jones stays in the backfield or splits out wide.

Against such formations, "the problem is deciding what you want to do defensively," said Phillips, "whether you want to treat it as a three-wide set and bring in an extra defensive back in there, and then they run with one of the two backs.

"If we're strong enough where Felix has to be take seriously as a receiver, then it could open up the running game. If they stay to stop the run, if he's a good enough receiver, it can help us there."

BTW, my quote were from TODAY... not a month ago.

I expect Barber to at least have similar numbers to Deuce in 2006 since Dallas is wanting to use Felix much like NO used Bush that season. Deuce had 1057 yds 10 TDs rushing 30receptions for 198 yards. Keep in mind that NO's defense was not as good as Dallas's defense will be this season and Deuce was coming off of a Knee injury from the previous season. I consider that to be Barber's floor. I could easily see 200 rushing yards, 3-5 rushing TDs, 15-20 receptions with 100 receiving yards tacked on to those numbers.I expect Addai to have similar numbers to last season if not a few less since they expect him to share the load more this season. He also showed a nasty tendency to get nicked during games. Not enought to take him out of the next week but enough to ruin his production during that contest. It cost me more than once last season as an Addai owner.

I would take Barber and not think twice about it.

I would take Barber over Addai.

 

[BigJim®]

Touches stolen - they are running packages in camp where Barber is the FB and Jones is the TB. They have run some plays where Barber gets the ball then hands off the Jones on an end around. The have split out Jones wide, and in the slot. They also have run Jones out of the 1-set. They are looking for ways to get Jones involved as much as possible. Barber and Jones are clearly in RBBC.

If you say so...

Terrell Owens issued the warning this week for opposing defenses getting ready for the 2008 Dallas Cowboys.

"Get ready for four quarters of Marion 'The Barbarian.’ "

He could have added, "and pack a lunch."

The Cowboys are about to find out if Marion Barber, the starter, can bring the same insane intensity and the same brutal style of running that earned him his colorful nickname as he did as Julius Jones’ backup the last two seasons.

And if he can, pity the poor linebackers and safeties who get in his way.

It’s a bit of a risk for the Cowboys, because Barber is like a heat-seeking missile when it comes to contact, and that could easily lead to injury, but he’s earned this opportunity, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one that denied him his chance.

Would you?

There will be absolutely no change in Barber’s style of play, no quarter asked, none given.

A man of few words, he still managed to make that clear this week.

"Do you pace yourself when you write an article?" he countered with a smile after I’d asked him if he would do that as a starter. "Or do you bring everything you have every time?"

Touché.

The Cowboys loved using Barber as a hammer last year, especially at the goal line and in the fourth quarter to help put teams away. Fans adored his hell-for-leather approach and clamored for him to be named the starter.

Now, with Jones long gone, they will get their wish.

"He’ll be our feature back, certainly, because you’re talking about rookies as backup players," coach Wade Phillips said. "He took that role in the last ballgame, obviously, and had a successful game. We think he can carry the load for us."

Coachspeak... sure, they want him to be their lead back, but it will still be RBBC.Here are their actions (which speak louder than words)

The Cowboys unveiled a few formations with running backs Marion Barber and Felix Jones on the field at the same time.

Sometimes Barber will lineup at fullback in front of Jones, and at other times Jones will split out wide as a receiver. Wade Phillips hopes it will be a formation that will give defensive coordinators fits.

"The problem is deciding what you want to do, defensively," Phillips said. "If you play it as nickel defense, they may run the ball on you. If they play regular defense, if Felix is a good enough receiver, that hurts you. That’s why we’re trying to implement it offensively. Felix has to be taken more [as] a wide receiver, then it opens up the running game and vice versa. If they stay and stop the running game, then hopefully, he’s a good enough receiver that could help us there."

A number of sets also featured rookie first-rounder Felix Jones and Marion Barber sharing the backfield, a formation out of which the offense both ran and passed.

Coach Wade Phillips anticipates Jones' speed and versatility as a pass-catcher to enable the rookie to stay on the field with Barber, rather than always spelling him, creating even more potential for opposing defenses, whether Jones stays in the backfield or splits out wide.

Against such formations, "the problem is deciding what you want to do defensively," said Phillips, "whether you want to treat it as a three-wide set and bring in an extra defensive back in there, and then they run with one of the two backs.

"If we're strong enough where Felix has to be take seriously as a receiver, then it could open up the running game. If they stay to stop the run, if he's a good enough receiver, it can help us there."

BTW, my quote were from TODAY... not a month ago.

I know how this works with you all too well Switz. Pro-Barber info is "coachspeak" or is readily explained away using some other logic, yet situational offensive schemes scream undeniable RBBC. Agree to disagree. Fortunately we're 1 short month from the opening of the season, when debate will be meaningless. More power to you if the Cowboys foolishly paid a RBBC guy $19 million guaranteed with intentions of giving Felix Jones enough carries to demand more than FF afterthought. I've never disputed that F.Jones has talent, I just doubt he'll take any major role given the commitment to Barber, and frankly, Jone's experience and uncertain blocking ability. Time will tell. I'll take the coach's words at face value that Barber will be the "feature" back which makes any other roles secondary. As I think I've posted before, I predict a 240 [barber]/100 [Jones]/50 [Choice] carry differential, or thereabouts.

Also, I'm confused on your point of mentioning your reports vs. reports from "a month ago." My blurb was from an article in the Star-Telegram just yesterday. Are you claiming that yesterday's news is 1-month stale information?

 

[TGinKC]

So Switz, do you own Jones and hope to drive his value up or are you trying to knock MB3 down a round or devalue him to pick him up cheaper? Just wondering cause of the major wood for Felix.

Anyway in non-PPR I'd rank MB3 and Addai as a pick'm too.

 

[switz]

Also, I'm confused on your point of mentioning your reports vs. reports from "a month ago." My blurb was from an article in the Star-Telegram just yesterday. Are you claiming that yesterday's news is 1-month stale information?

If that's the case then I wholeheartedly apologize. It was very similar to an article posted about a month ago, maybe even longer. And so I thought it was the same article. It also mentioned the loss of Julius Jones, but nothing about the acquisition of Felix Jones, so I gathered that the info was stale.I have no doubts that Barber will be on the field more than last year, but I don't see 300 carries for him, not near it. I've gone into detail on this so much that it's the proverbial stick and dead horse.Bottom line is that Barber will definitely see less touches than Addai, barring an Addai injury (which I'm sure some will think is likely). I don't see it being a 50-50 split in carries or anything, and your 200/100 Barber/Jones carries seems reasonable to me. I actually have Barber pegged around 250 and Jones at 140.

 

[switz]

So Switz, do you own Jones and hope to drive his value up or are you trying to knock MB3 down a round or devalue him to pick him up cheaper? Just wondering cause of the major wood for Felix.Anyway in non-PPR I'd rank MB3 and Addai as a pick'm too.

I own Jones in two leagues, neither of which allow trading. So there's no sense in driving his value up.I don't own Barber in any league, but had prepared to draft him last evening at 1.09 (as he was the player I expected to fall there) so I don't hate him or want to devalue him.My real like for Felix just comes from my gut instincts. I just see him as a special RB. I could be wrong, I have been before. But I obviously don't think I am.Last RB I really hyped was Onterrio Smith, and he was a great RB, just a total headcase. Before that it was LT, before that Edge. So unless Jones turns out to be a total headcase, I'm pretty sure he'll be better than people on these boards think.

 

[TGinKC]

So Switz, do you own Jones and hope to drive his value up or are you trying to knock MB3 down a round or devalue him to pick him up cheaper? Just wondering cause of the major wood for Felix.Anyway in non-PPR I'd rank MB3 and Addai as a pick'm too.

I own Jones in two leagues, neither of which allow trading. So there's no sense in driving his value up.I don't own Barber in any league, but had prepared to draft him last evening at 1.09 (as he was the player I expected to fall there) so I don't hate him or want to devalue him.My real like for Felix just comes from my gut instincts. I just see him as a special RB. I could be wrong, I have been before. But I obviously don't think I am.Last RB I really hyped was Onterrio Smith, and he was a great RB, just a total headcase. Before that it was LT, before that Edge. So unless Jones turns out to be a total headcase, I'm pretty sure he'll be better than people on these boards think.

Just curious, would you be as high on him if he was Addai's back up?

 

[switz]

So Switz, do you own Jones and hope to drive his value up or are you trying to knock MB3 down a round or devalue him to pick him up cheaper? Just wondering cause of the major wood for Felix.Anyway in non-PPR I'd rank MB3 and Addai as a pick'm too.

I own Jones in two leagues, neither of which allow trading. So there's no sense in driving his value up.I don't own Barber in any league, but had prepared to draft him last evening at 1.09 (as he was the player I expected to fall there) so I don't hate him or want to devalue him.My real like for Felix just comes from my gut instincts. I just see him as a special RB. I could be wrong, I have been before. But I obviously don't think I am.Last RB I really hyped was Onterrio Smith, and he was a great RB, just a total headcase. Before that it was LT, before that Edge. So unless Jones turns out to be a total headcase, I'm pretty sure he'll be better than people on these boards think.

Just curious, would you be as high on him if he was Addai's back up?

Yes... I would think he would be a real threat to Addai's touches. I have been high on Jones since way before the draft. IMO it didn't matter where he landed, he was going to play a significant role on the offense.Obviously going to a team that has used RBBC for the past three years does increase Jones' chances of playing a large role, but I can't think of any back that he wouldn't take carries from - even LT. Obviously the amount of carries would vary based on the team's scheme, but Felix would find himself on the field no matter what team it was.Edited to change 'carries' to 'touches'.

 

[Tom Baker]

I still don't understand all the Addai hate on these boards.

Lot of people drafted Reggie Bush, Laurence Maroney, and DeAngelo Williams ahead of Addai back in 2006. Lot of people don't like to admit when they're wrong. Might have something to do with that . . .

 

[Mark Wimer]

not sure where MB finished last year, but unless you think JA will have a better year then last year (?), you just need to decide how much Barber's stats will improve due to getting more carries....and then see how much closer that gets him to JA....depending on your definition of upside, you would have to think that MB stats will improve, while JA's may stay very close to where they were or improve/decrease slightly since he had such a good year.....

Ding Ding. I am of the belief that Addai is on a fairly strict "touch count" - he had 1 game over 30 touches last year (Week 9 vs. NE) and almost always sees a max of 25 touches (21-23 rushing and 2-4 receiving at most), with many weeks closer to 20 touches - they farm out the rest of the work to backups. Also, backups see extensive work at the end of the season so far in his career thanks to Indy locking in playoff seeding relatively early in December. I don't see this changing much this year, so expect to see Addai stay around 260 carries and 50ish receptions, with a big dip in value during fantasy playoffs. Meanwhile, Barber has posted an outstanding 4.8 yards per carry average in his last 2 seasons, and increased his carry load from 135 to 204 last year while maintaining his ypc average and increased his receptions from 23 to 44 last year (with veteran Julius Jones in the fold). With Jones gone I expect to see Barber's workload continue to increase, especially in the carry department. With only rookies to compete with, I think Barber gets close to 300 carries this year. Therefore, IMO, he has a much higher "ceiling" than Addai, with a legitimate shot at #2 fantasy RB behind LT, and definitely probable for top 5 status. He is the guy with more upside, although both have top 5 potential.

 

[JTM]

So Switz, do you own Jones and hope to drive his value up or are you trying to knock MB3 down a round or devalue him to pick him up cheaper? Just wondering cause of the major wood for Felix.Anyway in non-PPR I'd rank MB3 and Addai as a pick'm too.

I own Jones in two leagues, neither of which allow trading. So there's no sense in driving his value up.I don't own Barber in any league, but had prepared to draft him last evening at 1.09 (as he was the player I expected to fall there) so I don't hate him or want to devalue him.My real like for Felix just comes from my gut instincts. I just see him as a special RB. I could be wrong, I have been before. But I obviously don't think I am.Last RB I really hyped was Onterrio Smith, and he was a great RB, just a total headcase. Before that it was LT, before that Edge. So unless Jones turns out to be a total headcase, I'm pretty sure he'll be better than people on these boards think.

Just curious, would you be as high on him if he was Addai's back up?

Felix Jones may be used like Reggie Bush--don't disagree so much. I think you'll see some gadgets and creative formations with Felix, but he'll mostly take away touches from the #2 and #3 WR's more than he will Barber. More importantly, the DEF in Dallas ain't the sieve that NO's was--Felix will make some big plays, but when the boys are up you'll see plenty of Barber closing out games.I give the Barberian 300 total touches for 1,400 total yards and 20 combined TD's. Addai is just as capable and COULD surpass these numbers given Harrison may not be the Harrison of yore. Most importantly, I'm reading some anxiety about the Boys in the other NFC East threads...this makes me happy.

 

[switz]

Mark, you always make a lot of sense

Ding Ding. I am of the belief that Addai is on a fairly strict "touch count" - he had 1 game over 30 touches last year (Week 9 vs. NE) and almost always sees a max of 25 touches (21-23 rushing and 2-4 receiving at most), with many weeks closer to 20 touches - they farm out the rest of the work to backups. Also, backups see extensive work at the end of the season so far in his career thanks to Indy locking in playoff seeding relatively early in December. I don't see this changing much this year, so expect to see Addai stay around 260 carries and 50ish receptions, with a big dip in value during fantasy playoffs.

Interestingly, prior to injury last season Addai was hovering right at 20 for carries per game. He had 19 carries the game he was injured in, 23, 20, 22 the prior three. I agree that 20 is probably going to be the average per game carry count for Addai. But that puts him at 320 on the season. Now the last two games of the season, the Colts do tend to rest their starters, but even if you deduct 20 carries per game for those two, it only drops Addai to 280 carries. And last season, had he not missed one game, he would have had 278 carries (using his average which is low due to the reduced load in the last two weeks.) I don't expect less than 280 carries this season, and would not be surprised to see nearer 300.As for receptions, he really hovers near 3 per game with incredible consistency. That gives him 48 receptions on the season as reasoonable.

Meanwhile, Barber has posted an outstanding 4.8 yards per carry average in his last 2 seasons, and increased his carry load from 135 to 204 last year while maintaining his ypc average and increased his receptions from 23 to 44 last year (with veteran Julius Jones in the fold). With Jones gone I expect to see Barber's workload continue to increase, especially in the carry department. With only rookies to compete with, I think Barber gets close to 300 carries this year. Therefore, IMO, he has a much higher "ceiling" than Addai, with a legitimate shot at #2 fantasy RB behind LT, and definitely probable for top 5 status. He is the guy with more upside, although both have top 5 potential.

I agree that Barber will see again, an increase in carries. However, I find nearing 300 is going to be very difficult. Barber just isn't as successful after carry #16 (2.7YPC last year). And although his carries increase by 70 last season, there is a much bigger difference between 200 to 300 than there is between 130 and 200. Additionally, Barber's YPC really dropped off in the second half of the season, as he wore down from having the larger role.His receptions increased due to weaning Julius nearly completely out of the game, but that is the one area the coaches have specifically said they want Felix to take away from Barber, so I would not expect 40 receptions again from Barber. Likely back to 20.While I agree that Barber has more "room to climb" this season, I don't think he will finish as high as Addai will. I think consistently, for the rest of their careers, barring injury, Addai will prove to be the better RB.I hate to disagree with you - but in this case, I strongly disagree.

 

[easy like sunday morning]

Touches stolen - they are running packages in camp where Barber is the FB and Jones is the TB. They have run some plays where Barber gets the ball then hands off the Jones on an end around. The have split out Jones wide, and in the slot. They also have run Jones out of the 1-set. They are looking for ways to get Jones involved as much as possible. Barber and Jones are clearly in RBBC.

I don't think the above statement really shows that MB3 is going to lose touches. Dallas has TO, Whitten, MB3, and now Felix. Indy has Wayne, Addai, Harrison and/or Gonzalez, and Clark. Basically, Manning has a tool or two more to go too. If Jones takes touches away it will be more from the #2 and #3 WR of the Cowboys than MB3.

 

[Jayrod]

Touches stolen - they are running packages in camp where Barber is the FB and Jones is the TB. They have run some plays where Barber gets the ball then hands off the Jones on an end around. The have split out Jones wide, and in the slot. They also have run Jones out of the 1-set. They are looking for ways to get Jones involved as much as possible. Barber and Jones are clearly in RBBC.

If you say so...

Terrell Owens issued the warning this week for opposing defenses getting ready for the 2008 Dallas Cowboys.

"Get ready for four quarters of Marion 'The Barbarian.’ "

He could have added, "and pack a lunch."

The Cowboys are about to find out if Marion Barber, the starter, can bring the same insane intensity and the same brutal style of running that earned him his colorful nickname as he did as Julius Jones’ backup the last two seasons.

And if he can, pity the poor linebackers and safeties cornerbacks who get in his way.

It’s a bit of a risk for the Cowboys, because Barber is like a heat-seeking missile when it comes to contact, and that could easily lead to injury, but he’s earned this opportunity, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one that denied him his chance.

Would you?

There will be absolutely no change in Barber’s style of play, no quarter asked, none given.

A man of few words, he still managed to make that clear this week.

"Do you pace yourself when you write an article?" he countered with a smile after I’d asked him if he would do that as a starter. "Or do you bring everything you have every time?"

Touché.

The Cowboys loved using Barber as a hammer last year, especially at the goal line and in the fourth quarter to help put teams away. Fans adored his hell-for-leather approach and clamored for him to be named the starter.

Now, with Jones long gone, they will get their wish.

"He’ll be our feature back, certainly, because you’re talking about rookies as backup players," coach Wade Phillips said. "He took that role in the last ballgame, obviously, and had a successful game. We think he can carry the load for us."

fixed.Uhhh....no way does Barber try to run over NFL linebackers and usually not safeties either. If he does, he won't be long for this world, much less the football field. At 5'11" 215 lbs you don't run over guys that are 230+ lbs that make a career out of tackling people. He is an attacking runner, but that is just sensationalism. He might lower his head on these guys, but they won't be getting the worst of it very often.

Barber's either going to split carries or get hurt. Owners should hope for the former because he will still be valuable then.

 

[switz]

I don't think the above statement really shows that MB3 is going to lose touches. Dallas has TO, Whitten, MB3, and now Felix. Indy has Wayne, Addai, Harrison and/or Gonzalez, and Clark. Basically, Manning has a tool or two more to go too. If Jones takes touches away it will be more from the #2 and #3 WR of the Cowboys than MB3.

Felix plays RB... the difference between the two situations you posted was in INdy you only listed one RB as a target for touches, Addai. In DAL there are two RBs. Jones will take away carries and receptions from the pool available to Barber. True, he will also take from the pool available to the #2-#4 WR. But that doesn't eliminate him from taking carries and receptions form Barber.

Remember in the Deuce/Bush split which keeps getting talked about, Deuce only saw 250 carries. While that would be an increase for Barber, it's still nowhere near 300. And with Felix in town, it's doubtful Barber sees 40 catches again.

This 300 touch opportunity for Barber just isn't realistic. He's a fun guy to watch, a great guy to root for, but he's just not going to get the opportunities people are expecting. At the end of the season, we'll all still be here.We'll see how things worked out. But if I am indeed correct, don't come back saying I didn't warn you all.

 

[BigJim®]

If that's the case then I wholeheartedly apologize. It was very similar to an article posted about a month ago, maybe even longer. And so I thought it was the same article. It also mentioned the loss of Julius Jones, but nothing about the acquisition of Felix Jones, so I gathered that the info was stale.

Not a problem, but I'll attach the article. http://www.star-telegram.com/332/v-print/story/793913.htmlAlso, I disagreed with the article's position that Cowboy fans finally are getting what they want. The only Cowboy fans we have on this board have been anti-MB3 from the start, and have fallen over themselves putting JJ on a pedestal.

Also, I suppose I'll add I would take Addai over Barber, just barely. I'd guess most draft boards have AP/LT/SJ/Westy/Addai. I'd probably take Addai over Westy, and then if I was drafting in the 1.7-1.10 range I would gladly draft a falling Barber. But honestly, the difference between these guys is too narrow to debate heatedly.