AFCC***Cincinnati at Kansas City*** (-1.5, 48) Chiefs 23-20 (1 Viewer)

[Grigs Allmoon]

...and KC did earn home field.

That's debatable.

they earned it vs Cincy

Very true. I just meant the #1 seed overall.

 

[Runkle]

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet

r/nflmemes - Presenting your new AFC Champions

1,800 votes and 80 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

 

[Jayrod]

Here's my unbiased opinion as a small college level official on the main officiating controversies:
(I do live in KC territory, but am not a Chiefs fan, I just like good football)

3rd & 9 redo - if the Chiefs had gotten the first down, they would have made them redo it as well. It was supposed to be a dead ball, just no one could hear the ref. When there is a ref out on on the field blowing the whistle prior to the play, the play is dead. It looked like they screwed up, screwed the Bengals, whatever, but they did not. Any whining about this play is not being objective at all. There was no "2nd" 3rd down play.

Punt Block in the Back - This block is not that big of a miss. Argument can be made that he was double teamed as #85 is in front and goes to initiate contact with the gunner, which led to the contact in the back as the gunner either was blocked or abruptly moved around the block (I haven't seen a conclusive view of it anywhere) plus the runner seems to go well wide of the block. Could have been called, and probably gets called some of the time, but it wasn't some major glaring obvious miss.

OH on Mahomes scramble play - I don't believe this is a foul per the college or NFL rulebook. The link here is Joe Thomas explaining why it isn't a hold. You can never use still photos to assess holding as it takes away the elements of momentum and direction which are extremely key to holding calls.

Late hit on Mahomes scramble - I explained this above, but this is a clear cut foul at every level. Once a runner (particularly a QB) gives himself up into the sideline he is protected from any forceful contact. It wasn't much force and Mahomes likely embellished it a bit, but it was big enough and had to be called.

As a Bengals fan, I'm sure it sucks that these all went against you, but I'd imagine if we combed over plays for calls missed against the Chiefs we'd find some as well. The Bengals got outplayed many times throughout the game and didn't get the breaks they needed to pull it out, but there was no NFL/officiating conspiracy. Each of these plays stand on their own and 2 of them appear unfortunate but the refs were correct, one of them appears to be close but correct and one of them was a marginal missed call.

 

[The General]

Here's my unbiased opinion as a small college level official on the main officiating controversies:
(I do live in KC territory, but am not a Chiefs fan, I just like good football)

3rd & 9 redo - if the Chiefs had gotten the first down, they would have made them redo it as well. It was supposed to be a dead ball, just no one could hear the ref. When there is a ref out on on the field blowing the whistle prior to the play, the play is dead. It looked like they screwed up, screwed the Bengals, whatever, but they did not. Any whining about this play is not being objective at all. There was no "2nd" 3rd down play.

Punt Block in the Back - This block is not that big of a miss. Argument can be made that he was double teamed as #85 is in front and goes to initiate contact with the gunner, which led to the contact in the back as the gunner either was blocked or abruptly moved around the block (I haven't seen a conclusive view of it anywhere) plus the runner seems to go well wide of the block. Could have been called, and probably gets called some of the time, but it wasn't some major glaring obvious miss.

OH on Mahomes scramble play - I don't believe this is a foul per the college or NFL rulebook. The link here is Joe Thomas explaining why it isn't a hold. You can never use still photos to assess holding as it takes away the elements of momentum and direction which are extremely key to holding calls.

Late hit on Mahomes scramble - I explained this above, but this is a clear cut foul at every level. Once a runner (particularly a QB) gives himself up into the sideline he is protected from any forceful contact. It wasn't much force and Mahomes likely embellished it a bit, but it was big enough and had to be called.

As a Bengals fan, I'm sure it sucks that these all went against you, but I'd imagine if we combed over plays for calls missed against the Chiefs we'd find some as well. The Bengals got outplayed many times throughout the game and didn't get the breaks they needed to pull it out, but there was no NFL/officiating conspiracy. Each of these plays stand on their own and 2 of them appear unfortunate but the refs were correct, one of them appears to be close but correct and one of them was a marginal missed call.

Agree with all these. Bengals were holding on many snaps (so was KC) throughout the 4th. Very tough spot for the refs at that point.

I would add Burrow also got hit, well tapped in the chest but he dropped, very late in the end zone by Frank I think. That could easily have been called for 15.

 

[Jayrod]

Agree with all these. Bengals were holding on many snaps (so was KC) throughout the 4th. Very tough spot for the refs at that point.

I would add Burrow also got hit, well tapped in the chest but he dropped, very late in the end zone by Frank I think. That could easily have been called for 15.

I had forgotten about that play and just watched the replay.

Since the hit wasn't above the shoulders and he didn't land on him, the only way it is a penalty is if it is considered late. I think it was enough and the refs just didnt' call it, but again a light/grey area call they may have just not called to avoid "overofficiating". It was literally a one hand shove and Burrow was looking right at him so the risk of injury is almost nil there. Still by the letter of the law, could have been a foul. Saw some people comparing it to the Mahomes hit out of bounds, but that's not nearly the same play. I think the biggest complaint you could have here would be inconsistency (from game to game), but I don't know that there were any other close calls on roughing either way. That's the kind of roughing people have been whining about all season, but again it has been called throughout the season.

 

[The General]

Agree with all these. Bengals were holding on many snaps (so was KC) throughout the 4th. Very tough spot for the refs at that point.

I would add Burrow also got hit, well tapped in the chest but he dropped, very late in the end zone by Frank I think. That could easily have been called for 15.

I had forgotten about that play and just watched the replay.

Since the hit wasn't above the shoulders and he didn't land on him, the only way it is a penalty is if it is considered late. I think it was enough and the refs just didnt' call it, but again a light/grey area call they may have just not called to avoid "overofficiating". It was literally a one hand shove and Burrow was looking right at him so the risk of injury is almost nil there. Still by the letter of the law, could have been a foul. Saw some people comparing it to the Mahomes hit out of bounds, but that's not nearly the same play. I think the biggest complaint you could have here would be inconsistency (from game to game), but I don't know that there were any other close calls on roughing either way. That's the kind of roughing people have been whining about all season, but again it has been called throughout the season.

I mean it looked clearly late to me, Frank took a couple steps then hit him, as insignificant as the late hit on Mahomes but a clear foul. Refs calling it in one spot need to call it in the others.

This is no where near the biggest travesty in NFL reffing history, Seahawks - Pittsburgh Super Bowl XL NEVER FORGET! - but I can get the Bengals fans being a bit salty as the calls did lean towards KC.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Offensive holding?

Joe Thomas
@joethomas73

This is not a hold… Get over yourself if you think it was because this gets called only in high school, but it’s not within the bounds of what is considered holding in the NFL because Browns’ hands were inside the framework of the DE’s cylinder, and the feet were not beat
-----------------------
Ryan Burns
@FtblSickness
If Joe Thomas states a matter of line play fact, just accept it. Other stuff, have at it. Line play? Come on now.

 

[Insein]

Offensive holding?

Joe Thomas
@joethomas73

This is not a hold… Get over yourself if you think it was because this gets called only in high school, but it’s not within the bounds of what is considered holding in the NFL because Browns’ hands were inside the framework of the DE’s cylinder, and the feet were not beat
-----------------------
Ryan Burns
@FtblSickness
If Joe Thomas states a matter of line play fact, just accept it. Other stuff, have at it. Line play? Come on now.

I think on that play It was offensive holding. Not the final play.

 

[Jayrod]

I mean it looked clearly late to me, Frank took a couple steps then hit him, as insignificant as the late hit on Mahomes but a clear foul. Refs calling it in one spot need to call it in the others.

From a ref that has worked as both a referee in the backfield and a short wing on the sideline (admittedly, D-2 college is the highest I've worked), that late hit on the sideline is a no-brainer and the potential roughing the passer is a grey area. I officiated a couple of big games late in the year and I would call the late hit and don't call the roughing, just like this crew did. One is clear cut and the other is a grey area. Right or wrong, that is what officials are taught from the top down. There has been more of an emphasis on QB protection, but a shove in the chest after 1-2 steps isn't quite the same as a shove in the back on the sideline after clearly giving himself up. Really it has more to do with the time element for the defender as well as the risk for injury. Burrow was at no risk and the defender had a fraction of a second to pull up. On the sideline, the defender could see that Mahomes was going OOB for at least a second or two and the risk for injury was much higher running full speed into the bench area with a push in the back.

I really didn't care who won, but that is how I see it as a ref and how I would have called it. This is tough stuff with fractions of a second to see and decide as well as dealing with the elements, deciding at real speed instead of slow-mo replays, different angles of sight and coaches/players/fans trying to influence you.

 

[DropKick]

Agree with all these. Bengals were holding on many snaps (so was KC) throughout the 4th. Very tough spot for the refs at that point.

I would add Burrow also got hit, well tapped in the chest but he dropped, very late in the end zone by Frank I think. That could easily have been called for 15.

I had forgotten about that play and just watched the replay.

Since the hit wasn't above the shoulders and he didn't land on him, the only way it is a penalty is if it is considered late. I think it was enough and the refs just didnt' call it, but again a light/grey area call they may have just not called to avoid "overofficiating". It was literally a one hand shove and Burrow was looking right at him so the risk of injury is almost nil there. Still by the letter of the law, could have been a foul. Saw some people comparing it to the Mahomes hit out of bounds, but that's not nearly the same play. I think the biggest complaint you could have here would be inconsistency (from game to game), but I don't know that there were any other close calls on roughing either way. That's the kind of roughing people have been whining about all season, but again it has been called throughout the season.

I mean it looked clearly late to me, Frank took a couple steps then hit him, as insignificant as the late hit on Mahomes but a clear foul. Refs calling it in one spot need to call it in the others.

This is no where near the biggest travesty in NFL reffing history, Seahawks - Pittsburgh Super Bowl XL NEVER FORGET! - but I can get the Bengals fans being a bit salty as the calls did lean towards KC.

Agree with the travesty that was Seahawks/Steelers, but the hit on Mahomes was far from insignificant, especially for a guy with a high ankle sprain. As for these little, unnecessary cheap shots - like the one on Burrows - I wish the league would flag a few of these and get them out of the game. You see them every Sunday.

 

[DropKick]

Refs talking on post game press conference

Dangerous Danny Davis and Earl Hebner at the podium now

They delivered what the NFL wanted... Reid vs Eagles, Kelce x 2 for press week.

I think the NFL would be just fine with Burrow and SF being in the Super Bowl

Bengals/49ers rematch would be classic NFL nostalgia

 

[DropKick]

There’s the flag. What a joke.

A joke? That was the easiest call of the game

Soccer is awesome too. GTFO that was a BS call.

Did he push Mahomes? Yes. Barely. Not enough to ruin the game over.

shut up dude, that was a flag all day

Shut up? Wanna walk that back?

Time for bed dude.

Did anyone who is complaining about that call or blaming the refs actually watch the game? That was totally on the bengals.

I’m complaining about the call… a little.

I don’t have a problem with the call because it is the rule and by definition the right call.

I’m not upset. I’m not angry. I don’t want to light my mattress on fire.

I would like to have seen some common sense made and not made the call. I don’t think he threw Mahomes to the ground. It was a very sight push.

It’s hard to see egregious holding and see that called. That defender is taught MURDER THE QB MURDER THE QB MURDER THE MFN QB!!!!!!! HOOOOOLD UP, DONT TOUCH!!!!

I also don’t like people who flop.

it wasn’t a flop and it was a very late hard shove. It gets called 100% of the time no matter who is the ball carrier. It was the easiest flag of the game.

Put both of your arms in the air so that your elbows are ear level. Now tell me this is the natural position for your arms to go to when you are shoved from behind, and not arms forward trying to brace for impact.

Good penalty call but it was Olympic Diving

I tossed my wife to the ground, just to test your theory, and her arms also went up after she bounced off the ground and flipped over.

Took about twenty takes to rule out small sample size and I do feel a little bad for her... She could have played it up a little.... I mean... it was in her best interest to complete the test. My final conclusion is that she wouldn't have hit the ground, had I not thrown her.

 

[belljr]

So since i couldn't remember exaclty how it used to work. I think you need to blame the HCs for this

i.e 3rd QB
The rule allowed for teams to dress a third quarterback without it counting against the 45-man game-day roster limit (with rules limiting the first two quarterbacks from reentering the game once the third quarterback went in).

“The league abolished the exemption in 2011 when it expanded game-day rosters to 46, and most teams fell back on dressing just two quarterbacks for games.”

So in 2011 they basically gave teams an extra roster spot to use how they see fit but don't use it to carry the 3 QB.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Agree with all these. Bengals were holding on many snaps (so was KC) throughout the 4th. Very tough spot for the refs at that point.

I would add Burrow also got hit, well tapped in the chest but he dropped, very late in the end zone by Frank I think. That could easily have been called for 15.

I had forgotten about that play and just watched the replay.

Since the hit wasn't above the shoulders and he didn't land on him, the only way it is a penalty is if it is considered late. I think it was enough and the refs just didnt' call it, but again a light/grey area call they may have just not called to avoid "overofficiating". It was literally a one hand shove and Burrow was looking right at him so the risk of injury is almost nil there. Still by the letter of the law, could have been a foul. Saw some people comparing it to the Mahomes hit out of bounds, but that's not nearly the same play. I think the biggest complaint you could have here would be inconsistency (from game to game), but I don't know that there were any other close calls on roughing either way. That's the kind of roughing people have been whining about all season, but again it has been called throughout the season.

I mean it looked clearly late to me, Frank took a couple steps then hit him, as insignificant as the late hit on Mahomes but a clear foul. Refs calling it in one spot need to call it in the others.

This is no where near the biggest travesty in NFL reffing history, Seahawks - Pittsburgh Super Bowl XL NEVER FORGET! - but I can get the Bengals fans being a bit salty as the calls did lean towards KC.

Agree with the travesty that was Seahawks/Steelers, but the hit on Mahomes was far from insignificant, especially for a guy with a high ankle sprain. As for these little, unnecessary cheap shots - like the one on Burrows - I wish the league would flag a few of these and get them out of the game. You see them every Sunday.

bolded....at some point we have to remember at it's core this is football and a physical game......defenders salary literally are based on sacks/hits/pressures.....there is a reason you see QB "hits" listed as a stat for a guy when it pops up on the screen....in the same breathe .....offensive lineman's salary are often based on their ability to keep the QB clean....there has to be some level of "fear of getting hit" that a QB plays with.....this is tackle football where the goal is to get people to the ground so they don't gain yards/points....and you can't expect 250+ pound men going at full speed to consistently make a less then split second decision on how to nicely touch the QB.....often QB's will look like they are going to throw but don't......a defender doesn't always know this and if he doesn't hit the QB and the QB goes on to make a play....defender makes a mistake....hell, with the way the rules allow QB's to avoid a sack by just throwing the ball away anymore, a QB has ever opportunity to avoid getting hit or "pushed".....IMO, taking a few hits/pushes/sacks is what you sign up for when you agree to sign a contract for $45 mil a year.....

 

[DropKick]

Agree with all these. Bengals were holding on many snaps (so was KC) throughout the 4th. Very tough spot for the refs at that point.

I would add Burrow also got hit, well tapped in the chest but he dropped, very late in the end zone by Frank I think. That could easily have been called for 15.

I had forgotten about that play and just watched the replay.

Since the hit wasn't above the shoulders and he didn't land on him, the only way it is a penalty is if it is considered late. I think it was enough and the refs just didnt' call it, but again a light/grey area call they may have just not called to avoid "overofficiating". It was literally a one hand shove and Burrow was looking right at him so the risk of injury is almost nil there. Still by the letter of the law, could have been a foul. Saw some people comparing it to the Mahomes hit out of bounds, but that's not nearly the same play. I think the biggest complaint you could have here would be inconsistency (from game to game), but I don't know that there were any other close calls on roughing either way. That's the kind of roughing people have been whining about all season, but again it has been called throughout the season.

I mean it looked clearly late to me, Frank took a couple steps then hit him, as insignificant as the late hit on Mahomes but a clear foul. Refs calling it in one spot need to call it in the others.

This is no where near the biggest travesty in NFL reffing history, Seahawks - Pittsburgh Super Bowl XL NEVER FORGET! - but I can get the Bengals fans being a bit salty as the calls did lean towards KC.

Agree with the travesty that was Seahawks/Steelers, but the hit on Mahomes was far from insignificant, especially for a guy with a high ankle sprain. As for these little, unnecessary cheap shots - like the one on Burrows - I wish the league would flag a few of these and get them out of the game. You see them every Sunday.

bolded....at some point we have to remember at it's core this is football and a physical game......defenders salary literally are based on sacks/hits/pressures.....there is a reason you see QB "hits" listed as a stat for a guy when it pops up on the screen....in the same breathe .....offensive lineman's salary are often based on their ability to keep the QB clean....there has to be some level of "fear of getting hit" that a QB plays with.....this is tackle football where the goal is to get people to the ground so they don't gain yards/points....and you can't expect 250+ pound men going at full speed to consistently make a less then split second decision on how to nicely touch the QB.....often QB's will look like they are going to throw but don't......a defender doesn't always know this and if he doesn't hit the QB and the QB goes on to make a play....defender makes a mistake....hell, with the way the rules allow QB's to avoid a sack by just throwing the ball away anymore, a QB has ever opportunity to avoid getting hit or "pushed".....IMO, taking a few hits/pushes/sacks is what you sign up for when you agree to sign a contract for $45 mil a year.....

I absolutely feel bad for Ossai. He played a great game.

There are also plays where a player can't help it.... many "blows to the head" calls are of that nature, both players are moving and its impossible to avoid. The game is inherently rough... But some hits are just unnecessary... you know them when you see them.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Agree with all these. Bengals were holding on many snaps (so was KC) throughout the 4th. Very tough spot for the refs at that point.

I would add Burrow also got hit, well tapped in the chest but he dropped, very late in the end zone by Frank I think. That could easily have been called for 15.

I had forgotten about that play and just watched the replay.

Since the hit wasn't above the shoulders and he didn't land on him, the only way it is a penalty is if it is considered late. I think it was enough and the refs just didnt' call it, but again a light/grey area call they may have just not called to avoid "overofficiating". It was literally a one hand shove and Burrow was looking right at him so the risk of injury is almost nil there. Still by the letter of the law, could have been a foul. Saw some people comparing it to the Mahomes hit out of bounds, but that's not nearly the same play. I think the biggest complaint you could have here would be inconsistency (from game to game), but I don't know that there were any other close calls on roughing either way. That's the kind of roughing people have been whining about all season, but again it has been called throughout the season.

I mean it looked clearly late to me, Frank took a couple steps then hit him, as insignificant as the late hit on Mahomes but a clear foul. Refs calling it in one spot need to call it in the others.

This is no where near the biggest travesty in NFL reffing history, Seahawks - Pittsburgh Super Bowl XL NEVER FORGET! - but I can get the Bengals fans being a bit salty as the calls did lean towards KC.

Agree with the travesty that was Seahawks/Steelers, but the hit on Mahomes was far from insignificant, especially for a guy with a high ankle sprain. As for these little, unnecessary cheap shots - like the one on Burrows - I wish the league would flag a few of these and get them out of the game. You see them every Sunday.

bolded....at some point we have to remember at it's core this is football and a physical game......defenders salary literally are based on sacks/hits/pressures.....there is a reason you see QB "hits" listed as a stat for a guy when it pops up on the screen....in the same breathe .....offensive lineman's salary are often based on their ability to keep the QB clean....there has to be some level of "fear of getting hit" that a QB plays with.....this is tackle football where the goal is to get people to the ground so they don't gain yards/points....and you can't expect 250+ pound men going at full speed to consistently make a less then split second decision on how to nicely touch the QB.....often QB's will look like they are going to throw but don't......a defender doesn't always know this and if he doesn't hit the QB and the QB goes on to make a play....defender makes a mistake....hell, with the way the rules allow QB's to avoid a sack by just throwing the ball away anymore, a QB has ever opportunity to avoid getting hit or "pushed".....IMO, taking a few hits/pushes/sacks is what you sign up for when you agree to sign a contract for $45 mil a year.....

I absolutely feel bad for Ossai. He played a great game.

There are also plays where a player can't help it.... many "blows to the head" calls are of that nature, both players are moving and its impossible to avoid. The game is inherently rough... But some hits are just unnecessary... you know them when you see them.

agreed....the Ossai was a know it when you see it and has to be called 100% of the time......the "push" kind of stuff on Burrow in the middle of the field is going to happen like he said every Sunday....really no way to avoid that sometimes....