I've got it from a reliable source (a guy who has broken several stories about Charger signings on scout.com) that the Chargers received the sixth-rounder.
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AJ FEELEY traded to Chargers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bicycle_seat_sniffer
- Start date
I don't think they'll say goodbye to Rivers, but that has nothing to do with the argument that the Jets have no money, which is what I was addressing.Also, if the Chargers do say goodbye to Rivers, they'll sign Brees to a long-term deal (w/prorated signing bonus), so the Brees-related cap hit for 2006 wouldn't be bad.
Is it possible that Rivers just isn't game ready, and Feeley actually gives the Chargers a better chance to win in case Brees got hurt?
No. I just think the Phins like Lemon's potential. Charger fans are not happy to see him go, and if you look back at the August threads on Charger forums, you'll see (stupid) people calling for Lemon to start since he outplayed both Brees and Rivers in the preseason. He has great physical tools (arm, mobility) as well.
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Native
Footballguy
CNN is now reporting that the Phins received the pick ,not the Chargers.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/foot...dolphinsdeal.r/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/foot...dolphinsdeal.r/
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KillerNerd
Footballguy
Honestly, how much of the Falcon's success can Vick's 150yds/game be responsible for? Sure, he's making the owners happy by putting butts in the seats and getting jerseys sold, but come on... I would MUCH rather have LT + than Vick right now.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I stand by my statement.
I think the Tomlinson-Vick trade worked out for both teams.
Native
Footballguy
The Palm Beach Post is reporting that the Phins received a seventh round pick, not a sixt rounder as previously reported.
Miami Dolphins quarterback A.J. Feeley was traded Tuesday for San Diego Chargers third-string quarterback Cleo Lemon and a seventh-round draft pick, Lemon's agent John Rickert told the Post
Miami Dolphins quarterback A.J. Feeley was traded Tuesday for San Diego Chargers third-string quarterback Cleo Lemon and a seventh-round draft pick, Lemon's agent John Rickert told the Post
Rovers
Footballguy
I just can't see SD taking the Rivers cap hit.... I understand what you meant about the Jets, but I suspect that they will let Abraham walk, and that frees up almost 8 mil. On the other hand, I'm not sure the Jets would be willing to sign another QB to a big contract like Pennington's. That is what it would take to get Brees. From a Jets standpoint, Rivers would be a possible fix, but he had what, a 15 mil signing bonus? That is, I believe, pro rated over a six year deal. If they traded him, he'd cost about 10 mil on the cap. Then, they would still have to sign Brees. What sort of signing bonus would he get? Can they afford a cap hit of 12 to 15 mil for the QB position next year? On the other hand, if they keep Rivers, and let Brees walk, it's more like 2.5 mil for the QB position. Thsi year, by tagging Brees, they spent about 15 mil on the QB position. I just can't see SD doing that again. Of course, we really don't have a clue what they are thinking, but in my opinion, letting Brees walk makes the most sense from a SD standpoint. Now, if they think Rivers doesn't have what it takes (which I doubt) I am all wet!
It's originally prorated over the length of the contract, but as soon as he's traded, the whole amount that hasn't been counted yet is counted. None of it would carry over to the Jets at all.I'm not arguing about the fact that it's smart for the Chargers to keep Rivers. I think it's smart to keep Rivers no matter what they do with Brees. And I think what they should do with Brees depends on how the rest of the season goes. If the Chargers don't make the playoffs (they are 3-3 right now while Denver is 5-1), I could see them letting Brees walk. If they win the Super Bowl, Brees will definitely stay. Either way, I think they ought to keep Rivers, but I can't predict what will actually happen.
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el-gato-grande
Footballguy
I listen to the Miami Herald Dolphins podcast and the media has been critical of the team for not addressing the long term need at QB prior to this season. Perhaps they see Lemon as a potential QB of the future and they want him to receive some mentoring under this coaching staff this year heading into next season.In dynasty league formats, Lemon might deserve a look. 
a_rackowski
Footballguy
You cant learn a playbook during the season and also prepare for your opponents that week. Any trade would not have an impact this year I dont think.I don't think Feeley is more able than Lemon.Seems pretty foolish for a team who could convert that bench talent into something that will help them on the field.
Particularly now that they have an able backup QB...
Harry Beanbag
Sausage King of Chicago
As a Charger fan and season ticket holder I scratched my head on this one. Although I knew Lemon had not shot at sniffing the field I liked his upside much more than Feeley. Add to that this is 
if they gave away Lemon AND a draft pick, any draft pick.
The Chargers are in a battle with the city over a new stdium and they better tread lightly here. If they are needing the public vote of confidence for them to vote and approve a stadium project, they better not have a very popular player like Brees shown the door. Rivers is nice for his potential but Brees really brought the fans together and I don't think that was lost on them. Cap or no cap, the bigger issues the Chargers brass faces is if the team can win over the fans and ultimately get a vote at the polls.
Edited to add: At least Heather Mitts is coming to town........
if they gave away Lemon AND a draft pick, any draft pick.The Chargers are in a battle with the city over a new stdium and they better tread lightly here. If they are needing the public vote of confidence for them to vote and approve a stadium project, they better not have a very popular player like Brees shown the door. Rivers is nice for his potential but Brees really brought the fans together and I don't think that was lost on them. Cap or no cap, the bigger issues the Chargers brass faces is if the team can win over the fans and ultimately get a vote at the polls.
Edited to add: At least Heather Mitts is coming to town........
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What if....... This trade would allow both teams to be in better shape cap wise next year and....The Charges dump AJ totally after the season, then work out a trade with Miami for Phillip rivers. In turn they will get Lemon back along with draft picks(first round pick) possibly. By taking AJ this year they are helping their future suitors for Rivers clear enough space to get him, and they in return will get back a backup that knows their system, is at a realistic price for a backup (unlike Rivers), and they are happy with. Both teams benefit.
My guess on how this happened . . .The Dolphins were one of the teams interested in trading for Fonoti (who blossomed under Houck in San Diego).As part of the Fonoti talks, the Phins inquired into getting Lemon.The Fonoti talks broke down for whatever reason, but the Phins were still interested in getting Lemon if the price was right. Lemon isn't contributing as the third-string QB in San Diego, so the Chargers took the opportunity to get a draft pick for him, and Feeley was thrown in for good measure since the Phins weren't going to keep four QBs, and the Chargers could use a replacement after trading away their third.I don't think it has anything to do with the Chargers finally getting a stud backup QB of the future that will allow them to get rid of Brees/Rivers.But we'll see . . .
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Native
Footballguy
Theres some meritin what you say. The Phins were one of threeteams interested in signing Lem on in the offseason two years ago, but he signed with the Chargers.Some have said that Lemon has a similar buld to Culpepper (well-built, stong arm, mobile), Now Linehan is running the offense in Miami. You never know....
Rovers
Footballguy
MB, I am with you 100% on how Rivers looks from a Jets perspective.... I understand that none of the signing bonus "penalty" would carry over to the Jets. The points I am bring up are strictly from a SD perspective. Rivers would be awesome for the Jets, worth even this year's #1 and a 3 perhaps, depending on where the Jets finish, which at this point looks like the #6 draft spot to me. Now, on the other hand, SD happens to be in a very comfortable cap situation, and could indeed afford to keep both Rivers and Brees for another year. That isn't how I would go, but I don't run the Chargers player personnel! However, trading Rivers might make it hard to sign the picks they might get for him, as it might make the cap tight, how tight, I'm not sure.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I want my $24.95 back.
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Riffraff
Footballguy
As a Charger fan, I'm not surprised.Cleo Lemon was carried on the 53 man roster all last season, making 4 QBs on the active roster (Brees, Flutie, Rivers, Lemon). They couldn't put him on the practice squad as some other team would have claimed him off waivers before he could be signed to the practice squad.He has sound mechanics and played well when given the opportunity (pre-season). Lemon is the guy that made Flutie expendible, not Rivers. Was not given a chance as a starter since he's got a pro bowler and a #4 over-all draft choice ahead of him.AJ Feeley, on the other hand, was only in the headlights of 2 teams.. Miami and Philly. If he had been waived, he'd still be a free agent. Philly didn't want him back, they knew a product of the Reid west coast offense when they saw it.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Cleo Lemon! week 3 preseason Dark Phoenix 
:endshamelessplug:I like this kids overall talent. I'd like to see what he could do in the regular season.
:endshamelessplug:I like this kids overall talent. I'd like to see what he could do in the regular season.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Both the dolphin & chargers web site are reporting that the chargers get the extra pick.
If I understand the practice squad rules correctly, they could keep Davey active and Lemon on the practice squad. Feeley's experience may (likely)prohibit him from going onto the practice squad so in a way this can inadvertently free up a roster spot to sign Davey.If it's for Lemon I'm surprised. There were some reports that Saban was bringing in Rohan Davey for a look this week and I could've understood moving Feeley for a pick and then bringing Davey aboard. But a swap of backups?
So let's assume that Rivers is able to fetch a high first round pick. How exactly can the Chargers eat his bonus and shell out another one to yet another high 1st round pick? In the salary cap era, that just doesn't seem to work. That would almost be like paying their high #1 draft pick 2 ridiculous signing bonuses.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
check both home pages at nfl.comThis is getting ridiculous. For every site that says The Dolphins get a 7th round pick there are just as many sites out there saying the Chargers got a 7th round pick.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I think Rivers bonus is already paid. His actual salary is quite low for the coming years. Maybe some cap-ologist can explain the situation.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
Don't know if it has been "paid" or not in terms of him actually getting the money, but it has not all been counted against the cap. He had a $14M bonus on a 6 year deal. So each year, including last year, $14M/6 or $2.3M of that bonus gets counted against the Chargers' cap. There is $11.7M worth of bonus yet to be counted. If he is released or traded before June next year, $11.7M will be counted against the Chargers' 2006 cap (with no "bonus money" charge to the new team's cap). If he is moved AFTER June 1 next year, HALF of that $11.7M or about $5.9M will count against 2006 and the other half will count against 2007. All of these numbers are strictly for signing bonus money. His scheduled salary will be paid by (and counted against the cap for) the team that he's on at the time it is due.River's salary for a new team would be an unbelievable steal, assuming he can play anywhere near the level at which he was drafted. This would mean he should be VERY valuable in trade talks if the Chargers have any interest in moving him. On the other hand, it would mean they would have paid $14M bonus money to some other team's "franchise" QB.
I will guess that Brees will be franchised (or at least threatened with the franchise) again, but then the Chargers will look to move him. That's unless they get to the Superbowl (or deep into the playoffs). If they do that, I don't think they will have any choice but to sign him to a long term deal if they can since all of the key elements of the team are relatively young. If they do lock up Brees, they can then suck up the $14M+ and trade Rivers, or just have a really expesnive, potentially very good backup QB.
I don't believe Rivers could fetch a first. He hasn't played much at all in almost 3 calendar years. This preseason the Chargers threw a very odd, low number of passes. No clue why but that doesn't help his stock either if he's been sitting and only threw 20(guess) passes all preseason. I only mention this because it's yet another point that the guys gotta be "rusty".
Probably the best thing for the Chargers to do is to make it a contingency pick. 3rd round and if he starts X amount of games it's a 2nd, Y amount of games it's a first. This would also push the draft pick returned in the trade off a year and solve the cap woes you state.
Plus "everyone" thinks they want to trade Rivers which hurts his value.
-OZ-
Footballguy
In the interest of baseless speculation, should the Chargers go for a player or a high pick? If they want to save $$, it almost makes more sense to acquire a player. Perhaps a WR or LB. Does any team have extra WRs or LBs and need a QB?
Let's hypothetically say the Lions weren't happy with Harrington.
Would SD be willing to acquire Rogers? Perhaps Lehman +?
WOOHOO... Feeley is gone 
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Rogers?? No way. Roy Will, maybe. Teddy Lehman is not any better than any of the LB's on SD's roster. He's very slowwww.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Here's my question: Is Feeley the #2 or #3 QB? Assuming that the Chargers did this to allow them to trade Rivers in the offseason, do they make Feeley the #2 which will give him more reps in practice and prepare him to be Brees' backup next year? Or do they keep Rivers as the #2 so that he is getting the reps and they can say that he has 2 full seasons as the backup and has been getting the reps in practice when they try to trade him this offseason?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I think Feeley is clearly #3 at this point. He only gets in if Brees & Rivers get hurt.
I'm just speculating here, but I don't think Feeley was an important part of the deal. I think the Chargers realized that Lemon had no future in SD because his playing style doesn't fit their offense (he's a great athlete with a strong arm who can improvise, but the SD offense is a timing-based offense that emphasizes quick reads), so they traded him for a draft pick. I suspect that Feeley was just a throw-in (since the Dolphins would have cut him anyway to make room for Lemon).I don't think there's any chance that Feeley gives the Chargers a better chance to win than Rivers (assuming Brees is injured), so there's no way he'll see the field unless both Brees and Rivers are unavailable.
I don't see how this helps them to trade Rivers in the offseason. They could have traded him anyway. I don't think Feeley is better than Lemon. He may fit the offense better, but if that's what the Chargers were looking for, guys like Feeley will be available all over the place in the offseason anyway.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Interesting thoughts, thanks MT!
