ALL ABOARD THE TATUM BELL TRAIN (1 Viewer)

[Coeur de Lion]

Denver discarded Bell this year.

He was traded for a solid defensive player, who could fill a position that was a huge need for the Broncos considering that his predecessor was dead.How this equates to "discarded" is beyond me.

My bad. For some reason I thought that he was cut and went to Detroit via FA. Doesn't change the fact that Bell couldn't beat out the other guys, though.

 

[FFdork]

Bell has been long gone by round 9. I've seen him go as early as round 6, and pretty much in the round 7 area regularly. Of course he is a good value pick in round 9, but I think round 6-7 is much too early.

Well, I guess it depends on what kind of league you're in. After doing a bunch of mock drafts at ESPN, I can safely say your run-of-the-mill fantasy guys aren't usually taking him in round 6 or 7 right now. In the 7 mock drafts I hadn't deleted he averaged going at pick 103, so that's round 8 in a 12 team, round 10 in a 10 teamer. The earliest he went was pick 92 and the latest was pick 129. So for a 12 team league, never in round 6, only once would he have gone in round 7, twice in round 8, three times in round 9 and once in round 10. Plus those numbers are skewed b/c I know I deleted a couple from last weekend where I got him really late. Now, if your league is full of hardcore fantasy guys, I'm sure he does go earlier.

 

[FFdork]

My bad. For some reason I thought that he was cut and went to Detroit via FA. Doesn't change the fact that Bell couldn't beat out the other guys, though.

Someone may have already pointed this out already, but isn't this argument kind of limited? It's not like Detroit is running a similar system to Denver. On paper it looks like his skills match the Martz offense better. There have been positive reports out of training camp. None of this means he'll succeed--there are always tons of positive stories this time of year (remember Wali Lundy?). I don't think there's any way he beats out a healthy KJ, but he may have the opportunity handed to him. To me that's nice value if you get him at the right price.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Someone may have already pointed this out already, but isn't this argument kind of limited? It's not like Detroit is running a similar system to Denver. On paper it looks like his skills match the Martz offense better. There have been positive reports out of training camp. None of this means he'll succeed--there are always tons of positive stories this time of year (remember Wali Lundy?).

He isn't a good receiving RB at all. How is he a good fit for a Martz offense? Sure, Martz likes speed, but speed without vision, instincts, power, or receiving ability isn't going to get Bell very far.My main issue here is with the guys that think that Bell has a shot to beat out a healthy (if/when healthy) Kevin Jones. Even while Jones is out, I think that he'll be limited in short yardage/goalline work and as a receiver, so I don't really see where he is a big value, even in the later rounds.

 

[Aabye]

Nothing to add except thanks to SSOG for a very informative post on Denver's O-line.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

No im not a denver fan, which gives me no bias. But also, if you think that Denver's oline will simply be Denver's oline just because then you have another thing coming.I just took ESPN's depth chart. I don't see any 1st or 2nd round picks on the line(Hamilton was a 3rd I believe) and in the end scheme needs talent.Why did Shanny eventually start taking RB's early in the draft? Portis 2nd, Bell 2nd....b/c he needs talent to fit his scheme.

Once again, you're obviously not familiar with the way that the Denver Broncos do business. Denver runs a different scheme than the rest of the league, which means it values different players than the rest of the league. Remember when Pittsburgh was the only 3-4 defense in the league and they kept getting stud LBs in the 3rd round or later? The reason was because there was a large pool of "tweeners", and Pittsburgh was pretty much the only team that wanted them, so their draft value was very low. As the 3-4 becomes more and more popular, tweeners are becoming more and more highly valued, to the point where guys like Shawn Merriman and Demarcus Ware are going high in the first round (where before they might have slipped down to the 3rd). As a result, Pittsburgh's been having trouble replenishing its LB corps so easily. Well, Denver has succeeded acquiring offensive line talent late in the exact same way. Denver loves 280 or 290 lb offensive linemen. No other team in the league will touch them. As a result, someone like Greg Eslinger, the first center to win the Outland trophy since 1982, slipped all the way to the 6th round. He was one of the most decorated centers in college football history, but no one wanted him because he was "too light", so Denver managed to pick him up very late. In a similar manner, they have acquired Kuper, Myers, and Pears. These guys are all perfect fits for the Denver system, but they last so long because, outside of Atlanta, there isn't another team in the league that loves sub-300 pound linemen (and even Atlanta is going to be switching back now that Petrino is in town). If the rest of the league starts switching and using lighter, quicker linemen, then Denver's going to have to start drafting linemen higher. Until that point, though... Also, saying that Denver has no talent on its line is also ignorant- first of all, because Adam Meadows was a 2nd round pick (#48 overall) and Harris was just drafted this year in the 3rd, and second of all, because outside of tackles, offensive linemen almost NEVER command high draft picks. In the last 4 years, a total of 23 interior linemen have been drafted on the first day. When you consider that there are 96 starting interior linemen in the NFL, and the average career length of an NFL player is 3-4 years, you'll find that most teams are going to be starting, on average, one 1st-day pick on the interior of the line. Denver picked Ben Hamilton in the 3rd round, giving them... one first-day interior lineman, just like the league average. Sure, Denver doesn't have a lot of first-day picks on the interior of the OLine... but neither does the rest of the league. If you really want to argue that Denver doesn't have much talent, the only place where you can make the argument is at tackle, where Denver had George Foster (a 1st rounder) who they traded, and Adam Meadows (a 2nd rounder) who is the top backup at tackle. Denver has talent at tackle, it's just that the "less talented" undrafted players keep beating them out for a job. It stands to reason, then, that those undrafted tackles must be BETTER than the 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, and 3rd rounders on the roster.In addition, Denver has been managing its offensive line recently exactly the same way that it's ALWAYS managed its offensive line. Late round picks, long internships, heavy continuity, lots of money invested into the position... this is the Denver formula that they've stuck with since Shanahan came to town. Tom Nalen and Matt Lepsis are two of the best offensive linemen in Denver history (I'd call them two of the top three, along with Gary Zimmerman). Nalen was a 7th round pick, and Lepsis was an undrafted free agent. Mark Schlereth was a 10th round draft pick. The only 1st round draft picks Denver's had on its line under Shanahan were Gary Zimmerman (a likely HoFer) and George Foster (who was just ridden out of town), so obviously that's not the be-all, end-all that you seem to think it is.Furthermore, you make it sound like just because Denver doesn't spend high draft picks that they treat the offensive line like an afterthought. They don't. Rick Dennison basically amounts to one of the highest paid and most powerful offensive line coaches in the entire NFL. Denver (along with KC) routinely devotes a larger portion of its salary cap to the offensive line than any other team in the league. Denver just paid big money contracts to its BACKUP TACKLE AND GUARD. They draft players three years before they need them and pay those players for years just to ride the pine. I don't think that Denver's o-line will be fine just because they've always been fine... I believe that Denver's O-line is going to be just fine because there probably isn't another team in the league that devotes more time and resources to its offensive line than the Denver Broncos do.If you see some sort of indicators that Denver's offensive line is due for a decline, I'd love to hear them. I'm not saying that there aren't any there- Lepsis in particular is a concern, because the line is currently very dependent on him and he's coming back from a major injury. All I'm saying is that predicting Denver's offensive line will decline because they don't do things like the rest of the league, despite TWELVE YEARS worth of evidence that their way is better than everyone else's, is just sensationalism, and inaccurate to boot.

Thank you for your detailed analysis(being honest not sarcastic) and way to high-jack a Tatum Bell thread.Secondly, I am well aware of what a zone blocking scheme predicates. After all I coached the scheme at my last school. Quicker lineman are needed because they have to beat the defender to the playside gap. The power run scheme doesn't need to beat defenders to the punch moreso because they use brute power to push defenders downhill. I would say that the zone blocking scheme relies more on quickness and technique.I would argue that Shanny's scheme relies on a different player and it is harder to find those kind of lineman. To find a lineman that not only is lighter, but quick enough for the scheme, is experienced with the scheme, and has the proper technique. I actually prefer the zone blocking scheme because it allows the runner to find the weakness in the defensive front either frontside or cutting it back. I own an Alex Gibb video and he said that they decided to go to the scheme because even on the worst run it will be a positive gain vs. how other schemes can get blown up in the backfield.The only point that I was making was that it CAN come to an end. Look at the Yankees, even with the talent lined up(yes you can argue pitching) they can still lose.Coaching can only go so far before the players and talent have to take over.