ALL ABOARD THE TATUM BELL TRAIN (1 Viewer)

[Chunky Soup]

IN.

Bell has the talent and if the DET passing attack can open up running lanes, he will be absolutely devastating. It sounds like Tatum is going to be involved in the rec. game as well. Considering where he is drafted, he represents great value.

 

[Routilla]

Bell is intriguing at his ADP. Betts is also right there though. Tough call between those two.

 

[kyinaz]

Tatum Bell hasn't proven himself at all and had a golden opportunity to do so in Denver.

Name one part of the situation in Detriot that will be better for him than it was in Denver.

But hey if you like the guys best of luck.

OK.No Mike Shanahan.

And the artificial turf in Detroit is an added bonus. There's two.

Bell's a quality back in the right situation. He didn't perform as poorly in Denver as many suggest. He simply shared the load and was Denver's leading rusher the last two years, while sharing that load. Not nearly as bad as most on here suggest. If Jones is on the PUP, which I think he is, then Bell won't give up the job, all season, barring injury.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Kevin Jones is a much better all around RB than Tatum Bell. He is a tougher runner, better receiver, better blocker, and also better at protecting the ball. The only thing Bell has on him is speed.

Jones is way ahead of schedule in his rehab. Right now, there is a lot of uncertainty regarding whether or not KJ will start the season on PUP. The Lions seems to think it's 50-50; I personally think that is a bit on the optimistic side. KJ was running and cutting at full speed in cleats, but hasn't participated in contact drills yet. I believe he plays at close to full strength at some point this year. If he is placed on PUP, that gives him another 2 1/2 months to heal. With the reports about his progress, that seems to me to be plenty of time for him to be able to play at a relatively high level. I believe if KJ is healthy, Bell is a backup.

The hard thing in determining who is the shark move is trying to figure out when KJ returns, how effective he will be, and how the load is split.

Right now,...I see KJ starting on PUP, returning, and after, getting 65% of the load, possibly more.

I think if the Lions keep waiting to make a decision, it is because they think there is a legit chance KJ can be ready sooner rather than later. But right now, I personally think it's 90-10, possibly 80-20 that KJ starts on PUP.

 

[SoloMatisse]

I wouldnt expect any RB that has to rehab all offseason to actually have a good season. It doesnt usually happen. Hopefully Jones can stay healthy this year and contribute, but at best, he'll a contributing part of a committee. If both he and Bell can stay healthy this year, which may be asking alot considering they are both injury prone, then they could have a nice RBBC. I still wouldnt want anything to do with either one.

 

[perry147]

Per news Blogger:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...370/1048/SPORTS

Jones starts running: Running back Kevin Jones, working to return from a Lisfranc fracture in his foot, ran routes Tuesday for the first time in camp. Jones hopes to be ready for the season opener Sept. 9 at Oakland, but said he's not sure when he'll come off the physically-unable-to-perform list.

Although the Lions traded for Tatum Bell, Jones sees himself as the starting running back. He said they could eventually both be utilized in the running game, but he sees himself as the better back.

"If I wasn't hurt, he wouldn't even be an issue -- he wouldn't even be here," Jones said. "Right now, my goal is to get back, and then it won't be an issue again."

Jones said he and Bell have a cordial relationship. Jones shared carries with Lee Suggs at Virginia Tech, so he's used to a crowded backfield.

"I'm not worried about my job," Jones said. "When I'm able to do what I know how to do, the better man will be in there."

Bell is going to sit the pine.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Per news Blogger:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...370/1048/SPORTS

Jones starts running: Running back Kevin Jones, working to return from a Lisfranc fracture in his foot, ran routes Tuesday for the first time in camp. Jones hopes to be ready for the season opener Sept. 9 at Oakland, but said he's not sure when he'll come off the physically-unable-to-perform list.

Although the Lions traded for Tatum Bell, Jones sees himself as the starting running back. He said they could eventually both be utilized in the running game, but he sees himself as the better back.

"If I wasn't hurt, he wouldn't even be an issue -- he wouldn't even be here," Jones said. "Right now, my goal is to get back, and then it won't be an issue again."

Jones said he and Bell have a cordial relationship. Jones shared carries with Lee Suggs at Virginia Tech, so he's used to a crowded backfield.

"I'm not worried about my job," Jones said. "When I'm able to do what I know how to do, the better man will be in there."

Bell is going to sit the pine.

I am a huge KJ fan, but I still think smart money says he starts the season on PUP. I am one who thinks he plays after he comes off. Yesterday, I heard a radio interview with Lions beat writer Tom Kowalski and he still seems to be leaning on the 50-50 chance of PUP. He also said KJ is the unquestioned starter if healthy and that the Lions (aka Martz) think KJ is an elite talent at RB.

They are expected to decide on the PUP thing in around 2 weeks.

 

[packersfan]

I don't know if Jones is an elite talent but he's very talented in my opinion and he's much more talented than Tatum Bell. However, the injury factor is impossible to ignore. I've thought all along Jones would miss the first half of the season. At best, you get someone who gives you 2-3 decent games down the stretch. I'm not sure I'd want to bank on that in a re-draft.

As far as Bell, I simply no longer believe he can hold up as the featured RB. Last season in Denver cinched it for me. He got his shot and did very well but then got hurt again. I think he's a good change-of-pace backup and spot starter which is what he could be this season for the Lions. Long-term, I don't see any real value for him in Detroit if Jones is healthy.

Just my take.

 

[zamboni]

It seems like versatile, pass-catching RBs are the Martz prototype, which seems to apply to KJ much more so than Bell. Tatum seemed to improve in the receiving game last year, but the jury is still out on whether he could thrive in that area.

 

[Rev]

KJ's running routes, cutting laterally, and participating in every drill minus contact activities. With the regular season better than a month away, this is very good news for Jones owners, and bad for Bell owners. Granted, KJ has a huge hurtle to climb in terms of protecting himself when he starts getting tackled, but he's moving toward that point as well as we could hope.

IMO, the time to sell Bell is now before KJ officially takes the job back. The writing's on the wall, barring a major setback.

 

[Sleeper 43]

To Martz speed is priority 1. I think a nice case for Tatum to put up a fight for the RB1 when KJ returns

KJ may say hes ready but is he really conditioned? I'm not hating on KJ but those who are big supporters need to understand, some people never recover form a lisfranc injury at all. Right now hes jogging and rahbbing but we still dont know what happens when he gets tackled with 250-300 lbs on his back, its a little different. I would be cautiously optimistic about KJ and take baby steps with your faith.

I don't think this an open an shut case when KJ returns, Martz has had many enthusiastic things to say about Tatum lately (Its always convenient to call it coach speak).

I think Tatum's running style is better suited for a Martz/Faulk system than a Shanny one cut style.

Injuries have always really been my only concern with Tatum succeeding.

 

[Josh the FunkDOC]

This running game generated solid value last year with one of the worst offensive lines, so I am watching this closely.

Since I care more about the stretch run + playoffs, Jones is looking like the value move - he is the clearly superior player, and by all accounts they view him as such.

Oh yeah, and I wouldn't worry a whole lot about Duckett, he's just not very good. The Skins stuck him on special teams since they couldn't find ANYTHING ELSE for him to do, and where he's supposed to fit into a Martz offense is beyond me.

-Josh

 

[Dirk Digler]

Bell is an absolute steal at his current ADP. Can argue all you want that he's not that good, Jones is better, blah, blah. Baring miracle healing from Jones, He is the starting RB in a Mike Martz offense. That offense made Trung Candidate look good in spurts.

 

[bostonfred]

I think the Lions running game will be ok to pretty good. But I have a hard time getting real excited about Jones or Bell individually.

J

If that's the case, then why does FBG project the Lions to be 30th in the NFL in rushing, with fewer total rush yards than any team except Miami or Arizona?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Who's to say come week 1 and both players are healthy that Bell doesn't beat out Jones? Jones has a bad YPC and generally underachieved since his rookie campaign. Here we go....many will start typing about his 60 catches. Kevin Jones has shown that he gets injured and is very inconsistant.

In a non-ppr league I think Bell is the better player.

 

[switz]

Bell is an absolute steal at his current ADP. Can argue all you want that he's not that good, Jones is better, blah, blah. Baring miracle healing from Jones, He is the starting RB in a Mike Martz offense. That offense made Trung Candidate look good in spurts.

not what I want on my team.

 

[switz]

Who's to say come week 1 and both players are healthy that Bell doesn't beat out Jones? Jones has a bad YPC and generally underachieved since his rookie campaign. Here we go....many will start typing about his 60 catches. Kevin Jones has shown that he gets injured and is very inconsistant.In a non-ppr league I think Bell is the better player.

Jones is a FAR superior RB to Bell. The only thing that would hold him out is his health. While that's a solid possibility at the beginning of the season, it's unlikely Bell maintains a hold on the job.Frankly, Bell just isn't that good of a runningback. Sure he's shifty and fast, but he has no instincts, poor vision, and doesn't seem to grasp all the nuances of the position.

 

[Family Matters]

I think the Lions running game will be ok to pretty good. But I have a hard time getting real excited about Jones or Bell individually.

J

If that's the case, then why does FBG project the Lions to be 30th in the NFL in rushing, with fewer total rush yards than any team except Miami or Arizona?

1 guy versus consensus? Just a thought.

 

[Family Matters]

Bell is an absolute steal at his current ADP. Can argue all you want that he's not that good, Jones is better, blah, blah. Baring miracle healing from Jones, He is the starting RB in a Mike Martz offense. That offense made Trung Candidate look good in spurts.

He'll be s steal if he produces. The biggest problem is that while he may help you in the first 6-8 games, he likely will kill your team during your playoffs. You have to build a team for the long haul. This has disappointment written all over it. Now if you have KJ and Bell together then you might be pleased.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Who's to say come week 1 and both players are healthy that Bell doesn't beat out Jones? Jones has a bad YPC and generally underachieved since his rookie campaign. Here we go....many will start typing about his 60 catches. Kevin Jones has shown that he gets injured and is very inconsistant.In a non-ppr league I think Bell is the better player.

Jones is a FAR superior RB to Bell. The only thing that would hold him out is his health. While that's a solid possibility at the beginning of the season, it's unlikely Bell maintains a hold on the job.Frankly, Bell just isn't that good of a runningback. Sure he's shifty and fast, but he has no instincts, poor vision, and doesn't seem to grasp all the nuances of the position.

Wow Switz.....you disagreed with me What has Jones done throughout his career to make him an elite RB capable of shoving other 1,000 yard rushers out of the way?My point is that it is a competition even when both are healthy...but some are not even seeing that as a possibility.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Jones is a FAR superior RB to Bell. The only thing that would hold him out is his health. While that's a solid possibility at the beginning of the season, it's unlikely Bell maintains a hold on the job.Frankly, Bell just isn't that good of a runningback. Sure he's shifty and fast, but he has no instincts, poor vision, and doesn't seem to grasp all the nuances of the position.

Bell looked decent in Denver. Big deal, so did Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, and even Ron Dayne. That guady 4.9 career YPC will dip down below 3.5 running behind the Detroit line. Bell isn't great in short yardage, and isn't great in the passing game. Even if Jones is out for the year, I don't see huge numbers from Bell. Jones' value last year lay in his receiving stats far more than his rushing numbers. Take lower rushing #s (because Jones > Bell) without the catches, subtract a touch more for Duckett/Calhoun/etc. and that is what you'll get out of Bell. Nothing to get too excited about, IMO.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

To Martz speed is priority 1. I think a nice case for Tatum to put up a fight for the RB1 when KJ returns KJ may say hes ready but is he really conditioned? I'm not hating on KJ but those who are big supporters need to understand, some people never recover form a lisfranc injury at all. Right now hes jogging and rahbbing but we still dont know what happens when he gets tackled with 250-300 lbs on his back, its a little different. I would be cautiously optimistic about KJ and take baby steps with your faith.I don't think this an open an shut case when KJ returns, Martz has had many enthusiastic things to say about Tatum lately (Its always convenient to call it coach speak). I think Tatum's running style is better suited for a Martz/Faulk system than a Shanny one cut style. Injuries have always really been my only concern with Tatum succeeding.

Martz is a huge fan of KJ and according to Kowaslki, KJ is the clear cut starter when healthy.

 

[Block]

KJ's running routes, cutting laterally, and participating in every drill minus contact activities. With the regular season better than a month away, this is very good news for Jones owners, and bad for Bell owners. Granted, KJ has a huge hurtle to climb in terms of protecting himself when he starts getting tackled, but he's moving toward that point as well as we could hope. IMO, the time to sell Bell is now before KJ officially takes the job back. The writing's on the wall, barring a major setback.

Repeating it over and over again doesn't make it so. Still trying to trade KJ straight up for Norwood?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

What has Jones done throughout his career to make him an elite RB capable of shoving other 1,000 yard rushers out of the way?

What has Bell done to prove the same? He was unable to beat out Mike Anderson and Mike Bell, neither of whom have half the talent of Kevin Jones. Kevin Jones has played on a terrible team for his entire pro career. Twice now he has put together extremely impressive multi game stretches (2nd half 2004 and pre-injury 2006). He has the ability, but has been held back by his team situation. Bell, on the other hand, has been placed in about as perfect a situation as is possible for a RB (competing with an old 6th round player and a rookie FA, playing in a fantastic system with a fantastic line) and was unable to succeed. Bell is a one-trick pony. He is fast, but that is it; he is a poor man's Michael Bennett. We wouldn't even remember his name anymore had he been drafted by any team other than Denver.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

What has Jones done throughout his career to make him an elite RB capable of shoving other 1,000 yard rushers out of the way?

What has Bell done to prove the same? He was unable to beat out Mike Anderson and Mike Bell, neither of whom have half the talent of Kevin Jones. Kevin Jones has played on a terrible team for his entire pro career. Twice now he has put together extremely impressive multi game stretches (2nd half 2004 and pre-injury 2006). He has the ability, but has been held back by his team situation. Bell, on the other hand, has been placed in about as perfect a situation as is possible for a RB (competing with an old 6th round player and a rookie FA, playing in a fantastic system with a fantastic line) and was unable to succeed. Bell is a one-trick pony. He is fast, but that is it; he is a poor man's Michael Bennett. We wouldn't even remember his name anymore had he been drafted by any team other than Denver.

He ran for over 1,000 yards last year, while injured.I believe that the Denver O-line situation has been declining. When is the last time a RB ran for over 1400 with them? Portis? Mike Anderson?It has been awhile and it might not be the ideal situation that everyone in here dreams Travis Henry to obtain this season. All good things must come to an end.Do I think Bell will run for 1500 yards? No, but I believe he isn't getting a fair shake whatsoever.

 

[Sleeper 43]

To Martz speed is priority 1. I think a nice case for Tatum to put up a fight for the RB1 when KJ returns KJ may say hes ready but is he really conditioned? I'm not hating on KJ but those who are big supporters need to understand, some people never recover form a lisfranc injury at all. Right now hes jogging and rahbbing but we still dont know what happens when he gets tackled with 250-300 lbs on his back, its a little different. I would be cautiously optimistic about KJ and take baby steps with your faith.I don't think this an open an shut case when KJ returns, Martz has had many enthusiastic things to say about Tatum lately (Its always convenient to call it coach speak). I think Tatum's running style is better suited for a Martz/Faulk system than a Shanny one cut style. Injuries have always really been my only concern with Tatum succeeding.

Martz is a huge fan of KJ and according to Kowaslki, KJ is the clear cut starter when healthy.

I'll take your word for it, I'm not in the know with the Lions, but I think there is opportunity for Tatum to make the decision hard/er should KJ come back in old form. If he started the season with 4 consecutive 150 all purpose yard games, the fans, the staff, upper management would be intrigued if KJ said week 5 he was ready to go.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

He ran for over 1,000 yards last year, while injured.I believe that the Denver O-line situation has been declining. When is the last time a RB ran for over 1400 with them? Portis? Mike Anderson?It has been awhile and it might not be the ideal situation that everyone in here dreams Travis Henry to obtain this season. All good things must come to an end.Do I think Bell will run for 1500 yards? No, but I believe he isn't getting a fair shake whatsoever.

How many NFL RBs could hit 1K given 233 carries for the Broncos? 30? Maybe more? Denver's ground game has been less dominant, IMO, due to the journeymen that they have trotted out at RB since Portis left, as opposed to anything else.

 

[AB in DC]

Jones is a FAR superior RB to Bell. The only thing that would hold him out is his health. While that's a solid possibility at the beginning of the season, it's unlikely Bell maintains a hold on the job.

But is Jones at 80% superior to Bell at 100%?People forget that a Lisfranc injury isn't something that will just go away quickly on its own. Even if KJones is healthy enough to play, that doesn't mean his play won't be affected by the injury. Think ACL tear, or worse.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

If he started the season with 4 consecutive 150 all purpose yard games

And if my Aunt had... uhh... different equipment, she'd be my uncle. Four straight 150 yard games? From Tatum Bell running behind the Detroit line? Put down the kool aid, guy.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

He ran for over 1,000 yards last year, while injured.I believe that the Denver O-line situation has been declining. When is the last time a RB ran for over 1400 with them? Portis? Mike Anderson?It has been awhile and it might not be the ideal situation that everyone in here dreams Travis Henry to obtain this season. All good things must come to an end.Do I think Bell will run for 1500 yards? No, but I believe he isn't getting a fair shake whatsoever.

How many NFL RBs could hit 1K given 233 carries for the Broncos? 30? Maybe more? Denver's ground game has been less dominant, IMO, due to the journeymen that they have trotted out at RB since Portis left, as opposed to anything else.

LT-Matt Lepsis LG- Ben Hamilton C-Tom Nalen RG- Montrae Holland RT-Adam MeadowsYou think that resembles old Denver Olines?Nalen is 36, Meadows got cut by the panthers, Holland is 6-2 322 which is far from ideal as a guard in a zone blocking scheme.

 

[bostonfred]

I think the Lions running game will be ok to pretty good. But I have a hard time getting real excited about Jones or Bell individually.

J

If that's the case, then why does FBG project the Lions to be 30th in the NFL in rushing, with fewer total rush yards than any team except Miami or Arizona?

1 guy versus consensus? Just a thought.

I understand that, and I'm not being critical of the projections - I'm not really that high on either specific player, either. But I think the total projections for Detroit are out of whack, which means that any specific player in Detroit will probably be drafted later than they should. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it isn't. I'm just wondering why.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I would still MUCH rather have KJ in a dynasty than Norwood.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

LT-Matt Lepsis LG- Ben Hamilton C-Tom Nalen RG- Montrae Holland RT-Adam MeadowsYou think that resembles old Denver Olines?Nalen is 36, Meadows got cut by the panthers, Holland is 6-2 322 which is far from ideal as a guard in a zone blocking scheme.

Maybe not the household names of Zimmerman and company, but they are still easily one of the better run blocking units in the NFL. If Bell was so good, why was he unable to beat out Mike Anderson and Mike Bell the last two years? They are both average backup-level RBs.

 

[perry147]

LT-Matt Lepsis LG- Ben Hamilton C-Tom Nalen RG- Montrae Holland RT-Adam MeadowsYou think that resembles old Denver Olines?Nalen is 36, Meadows got cut by the panthers, Holland is 6-2 322 which is far from ideal as a guard in a zone blocking scheme.

Maybe not the household names of Zimmerman and company, but they are still easily one of the better run blocking units in the NFL. If Bell was so good, why was he unable to beat out Mike Anderson and Mike Bell the last two years? They are both average backup-level RBs.

Also if Bell was so good why did Denver get rid of him and why did they go out and get Travis Henry. This illusion of Tatum Bell being a great back who can not find a break is just that an illusion.Tatum Bell = Trung Candidate.

 

[Chunky Soup]

LT-Matt Lepsis LG- Ben Hamilton C-Tom Nalen RG- Montrae Holland RT-Adam MeadowsYou think that resembles old Denver Olines?Nalen is 36, Meadows got cut by the panthers, Holland is 6-2 322 which is far from ideal as a guard in a zone blocking scheme.

Maybe not the household names of Zimmerman and company, but they are still easily one of the better run blocking units in the NFL. If Bell was so good, why was he unable to beat out Mike Anderson and Mike Bell the last two years? They are both average backup-level RBs.

He did beat out Mike Bell. He put up 1025 yards over 13 games he played in. That's not shabby.Anyway, because you're using one example (Broncos) you're drawing very poor conclusions. What exactly tells you that he failed in Denver? Because he's now in Detroit? I mean, he DID have a 1000 yard season. In fact, prorating that gives you 1250 yards. He DID average 4.9 YPC during his three years there. And, after two years of being a COP, including a year in which he gained 921/8 on 173 carries, he finally was put into the starter/featured role because he beat out the rest of the competition. Many, including SSOG, the Broncos expert, would consider Shanahan a coach that never gave Tatum a fair chance. Whether this thinking is true or not, to say Tatum sucks or he can't make it is just delusional at this point.

 

[Chunky Soup]

LT-Matt Lepsis LG- Ben Hamilton C-Tom Nalen RG- Montrae Holland RT-Adam MeadowsYou think that resembles old Denver Olines?Nalen is 36, Meadows got cut by the panthers, Holland is 6-2 322 which is far from ideal as a guard in a zone blocking scheme.

Maybe not the household names of Zimmerman and company, but they are still easily one of the better run blocking units in the NFL. If Bell was so good, why was he unable to beat out Mike Anderson and Mike Bell the last two years? They are both average backup-level RBs.

Also if Bell was so good why did Denver get rid of him and why did they go out and get Travis Henry. This illusion of Tatum Bell being a great back who can not find a break is just that an illusion.Tatum Bell = Trung Candidate.

The Broncos have gotten rid of Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, and Clinton Portis without hesitation before. How does this prove anything?

 

[switz]

LT-Matt Lepsis LG- Ben Hamilton C-Tom Nalen RG- Montrae Holland RT-Adam MeadowsYou think that resembles old Denver Olines?Nalen is 36, Meadows got cut by the panthers, Holland is 6-2 322 which is far from ideal as a guard in a zone blocking scheme.

Maybe not the household names of Zimmerman and company, but they are still easily one of the better run blocking units in the NFL. If Bell was so good, why was he unable to beat out Mike Anderson and Mike Bell the last two years? They are both average backup-level RBs.

Also if Bell was so good why did Denver get rid of him and why did they go out and get Travis Henry. This illusion of Tatum Bell being a great back who can not find a break is just that an illusion.Tatum Bell = Trung Candidate.

The Broncos have gotten rid of Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, and Clinton Portis without hesitation before. How does this prove anything?

It indicates they feel their system overinflates the performance and value of RBs.In Portis' case, they desparately needed a DB, and felt it was harder to draft a shutdown corner than it was to find a suitable RB.The fact that since then they've worked harder to find a RB indicates they've been very dissatisfied with the post-Portis RBs. Bell overproduced due to the system.

 

[FFdork]

I apologize that I didn't read every last post about whether Tatum Bell roxxorz or suxxorz. This thread has the usual over-dramatic title that people around here favor, but I think Tatum is a great guy to take late if your drafting soon.

How many times is there a decent RB prospect in the 9th or 10th round? Whether he has any chance of sniffing 8 TDs or not is irrelevant b/c I don't think anyone is suggesting using a 4th round pick (I'm certainly not). What is relevant is whether you'd like a potential starting RB or Matt Jones, because that's about where he is going.

In fact, in a lot of mocks I've done, you could pick up KJ and Tater and cover the bases. You'd have to take KJ a little earlier, but of course the payoff is potentially much greater because we know what KJ can do in that offense.

BTW, I think a lot of the value goes away if you draft late because as the preseason goes on we're going to get better info on the situation. Then the appropriate guy will skyrocket in value. However, right now both of them are great buy low candidates because of the uncertainty.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Bell is intriguing at his ADP. Betts is also right there though. Tough call between those two.

If I had to choose right now, I'd take Betts

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Bell has been long gone by round 9. I've seen him go as early as round 6, and pretty much in the round 7 area regularly. Of course he is a good value pick in round 9, but I think round 6-7 is much too early.

 

[Routilla]

Bell has been long gone by round 9. I've seen him go as early as round 6, and pretty much in the round 7 area regularly. Of course he is a good value pick in round 9, but I think round 6-7 is much too early.

 

[SSOG]

It seems like versatile, pass-catching RBs are the Martz prototype, which seems to apply to KJ much more so than Bell. Tatum seemed to improve in the receiving game last year, but the jury is still out on whether he could thrive in that area.

Bell averaged a putrid 3.7 yards per target last season and ranked dead last in the league in receiving according to DVOA. If that's an improvement, I shudder to think of how bad he must have been in 2005.

I think the Lions running game will be ok to pretty good. But I have a hard time getting real excited about Jones or Bell individually.

J

If that's the case, then why does FBG project the Lions to be 30th in the NFL in rushing, with fewer total rush yards than any team except Miami or Arizona?

Because they were ranked 32nd in rushing last season, and Martz has a huge history of completely forgetting that he can even call running plays? Doesn't mean Detroit's running situation won't be valuable, because very few teams in the entire NFL pass more to their RBs.

He ran for over 1,000 yards last year, while injured.

I believe that the Denver O-line situation has been declining. When is the last time a RB ran for over 1400 with them? Portis? Mike Anderson?

It has been awhile and it might not be the ideal situation that everyone in here dreams Travis Henry to obtain this season. All good things must come to an end.

Do I think Bell will run for 1500 yards? No, but I believe he isn't getting a fair shake whatsoever.

Denver's O-Line was at its lowest point in the Clinton Portis years, and has been steadily improving since then. You're right that Denver hasn't had anyone rush for 1400 yards in the last 3 years... instead, they almost became the first team in 20 years with a pair of 1,000 yard rushers. Which is more impressive, one guy getting 1400, or two guys getting 1000 each? They also had Droughns rush for 1240 yards in essentially just 12 games- you don't think he would have gotten 160 more yards given 4 more games?Over the Shanahan era, Denver's rushing game had ranked 8th, 2nd, 4th, 2nd, 5th, 10th, 2nd, 12th, 2nd, 4th, 1st, and 5th. Please point out where the decline is, again? Thanks in advance.

LT-Matt Lepsis LG- Ben Hamilton C-Tom Nalen RG- Montrae Holland RT-Adam Meadows

You think that resembles old Denver Olines?

Nalen is 36, Meadows got cut by the panthers, Holland is 6-2 322 which is far from ideal as a guard in a zone blocking scheme.

You're obviously not very knowledgeable of the Denver offensive line situation. Lepsis (if healthy), Hamilton, and Nalen are perennially among the top 5 performers in the league at their respective positions. Montrae Holland is the BACKUP guard- the starter, Kupers, definitely IS an ideal guard in the zone blocking scheme, and Holland is such a poor fit that Denver gave him a multi-year contract extension a couple of weeks ago before he ever played a single snap. Also, Meadows isn't the starting RT, Eric Pears is... and Meadows never got cut from the Panthers. Meadows was one of the better RTs in the league when the Panthers paid big money to lure him away from the Colts, and he wasn't cut... he RETIRED because of a shoulder injury. He got healthy and he unretired, and when he did, he had teams lining up for his services.Not only is Denver's 1st string offensive line great, Denver probably has the best depth in the entire league. Denver's second string offensive line (Harris, Myers, Eslinger, Holland, Meadows) might even be an upgrade over some of the worse OLines in the league (including Detroit's).

This is all beside the point, though. The linemen don't have to be as good as the Zimmermans, Schlereths, and Neils that Davis ran behind... they only have to be as good as the Salaams and Carlisles that Portis, Droughns, and Anderson ran behind.

Many, including SSOG, the Broncos expert, would consider Shanahan a coach that never gave Tatum a fair chance. Whether this thinking is true or not, to say Tatum sucks or he can't make it is just delusional at this point.

I think that Shanahan gave him a fair shake, Tatum was just miscast in the scheme. I have definitely been on record saying several times that Bell has the tools to succeed in a different scheme, though.

 

[duaneok66]

Who's to say come week 1 and both players are healthy that Bell doesn't beat out Jones? Jones has a bad YPC and generally underachieved since his rookie campaign. Here we go....many will start typing about his 60 catches. Kevin Jones has shown that he gets injured and is very inconsistant.

In a non-ppr league I think Bell is the better player.

Jones is a FAR superior RB to Bell. The only thing that would hold him out is his health. While that's a solid possibility at the beginning of the season, it's unlikely Bell maintains a hold on the job.Frankly, Bell just isn't that good of a runningback. Sure he's shifty and fast, but he has no instincts, poor vision, and doesn't seem to grasp all the nuances of the position.

Then Bell must really be horrible . . .

 

[ArcticEdge]

Where's that Tatum Bell alias? That guy was funny last year.

 

[Rev]

KJ's running routes, cutting laterally, and participating in every drill minus contact activities. With the regular season better than a month away, this is very good news for Jones owners, and bad for Bell owners. Granted, KJ has a huge hurtle to climb in terms of protecting himself when he starts getting tackled, but he's moving toward that point as well as we could hope.

IMO, the time to sell Bell is now before KJ officially takes the job back. The writing's on the wall, barring a major setback.

Repeating it over and over again doesn't make it so. Still trying to trade KJ straight up for Norwood?

Discussing news from today is hardly redundant.

If you'd still prefer Norwood to KJ in dynasty in light of KJ's solid recovery and the Vick debacle in Atlanta, you're fast becomming a minority. It would be helpful if you'd post your conclusions and make a case for them.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

No im not a denver fan, which gives me no bias. But also, if you think that Denver's oline will simply be Denver's oline just because then you have another thing coming.

I just took ESPN's depth chart. I don't see any 1st or 2nd round picks on the line(Hamilton was a 3rd I believe) and in the end scheme needs talent.

Why did Shanny eventually start taking RB's early in the draft? Portis 2nd, Bell 2nd....b/c he needs talent to fit his scheme.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Anyway, because you're using one example (Broncos) you're drawing very poor conclusions. What exactly tells you that he failed in Denver? Because he's now in Detroit? I mean, he DID have a 1000 yard season. In fact, prorating that gives you 1250 yards. He DID average 4.9 YPC during his three years there. And, after two years of being a COP, including a year in which he gained 921/8 on 173 carries, he finally was put into the starter/featured role because he beat out the rest of the competition.

Bell was drafted in the 2nd round, IIRC and was the highest RB Shanahan ever drafted. He faced very average competition (Droughns, Anderson, Mike Bell) and was still unable to grab control of the starting spot away from them. Denver, despite Shanahan's history of preferring to use one lead RB and Bell being hand-picked to inherit Portis' job, used a RBBC the past two years. Denver discarded Bell this year. Is running for 1000 yards in Denver really that impressive? Denver also discarded him this offseason. If he was any good, he'd have been getting 300+ carries in Denver rather than splitting time with the other RBs there. If he was any good, he'd still be in Denver. Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson both put up 1000 yard seasons in Denver. What have they done post-Broncos? Denever's system and o-line are capable of making any RB look decent to good. Running in a pass-heavy offense (when you suck as a receiver) behind a far inferior line isn't going to help Bell's numbers. I'm amazed that anyone believes that he'll be a factor in any way this year, particularly if Jones is able to come back.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No im not a denver fan, which gives me no bias. But also, if you think that Denver's oline will simply be Denver's oline just because then you have another thing coming.I just took ESPN's depth chart. I don't see any 1st or 2nd round picks on the line(Hamilton was a 3rd I believe) and in the end scheme needs talent.

You must have missed this:

Over the Shanahan era, Denver's rushing game had ranked 8th, 2nd, 4th, 2nd, 5th, 10th, 2nd, 12th, 2nd, 4th, 1st, and 5th. Please point out where the decline is, again? Thanks in advance.

Denver's line is fine.

 

[AB in DC]

Denver discarded Bell this year.

He was traded for a solid defensive player, who could fill a position that was a huge need for the Broncos considering that his predecessor was dead.How this equates to "discarded" is beyond me.

 

[SSOG]

No im not a denver fan, which gives me no bias. But also, if you think that Denver's oline will simply be Denver's oline just because then you have another thing coming.I just took ESPN's depth chart. I don't see any 1st or 2nd round picks on the line(Hamilton was a 3rd I believe) and in the end scheme needs talent.Why did Shanny eventually start taking RB's early in the draft? Portis 2nd, Bell 2nd....b/c he needs talent to fit his scheme.

Once again, you're obviously not familiar with the way that the Denver Broncos do business. Denver runs a different scheme than the rest of the league, which means it values different players than the rest of the league. Remember when Pittsburgh was the only 3-4 defense in the league and they kept getting stud LBs in the 3rd round or later? The reason was because there was a large pool of "tweeners", and Pittsburgh was pretty much the only team that wanted them, so their draft value was very low. As the 3-4 becomes more and more popular, tweeners are becoming more and more highly valued, to the point where guys like Shawn Merriman and Demarcus Ware are going high in the first round (where before they might have slipped down to the 3rd). As a result, Pittsburgh's been having trouble replenishing its LB corps so easily. Well, Denver has succeeded acquiring offensive line talent late in the exact same way. Denver loves 280 or 290 lb offensive linemen. No other team in the league will touch them. As a result, someone like Greg Eslinger, the first center to win the Outland trophy since 1982, slipped all the way to the 6th round. He was one of the most decorated centers in college football history, but no one wanted him because he was "too light", so Denver managed to pick him up very late. In a similar manner, they have acquired Kuper, Myers, and Pears. These guys are all perfect fits for the Denver system, but they last so long because, outside of Atlanta, there isn't another team in the league that loves sub-300 pound linemen (and even Atlanta is going to be switching back now that Petrino is in town). If the rest of the league starts switching and using lighter, quicker linemen, then Denver's going to have to start drafting linemen higher. Until that point, though... Also, saying that Denver has no talent on its line is also ignorant- first of all, because Adam Meadows was a 2nd round pick (#48 overall) and Harris was just drafted this year in the 3rd, and second of all, because outside of tackles, offensive linemen almost NEVER command high draft picks. In the last 4 years, a total of 23 interior linemen have been drafted on the first day. When you consider that there are 96 starting interior linemen in the NFL, and the average career length of an NFL player is 3-4 years, you'll find that most teams are going to be starting, on average, one 1st-day pick on the interior of the line. Denver picked Ben Hamilton in the 3rd round, giving them... one first-day interior lineman, just like the league average. Sure, Denver doesn't have a lot of first-day picks on the interior of the OLine... but neither does the rest of the league. If you really want to argue that Denver doesn't have much talent, the only place where you can make the argument is at tackle, where Denver had George Foster (a 1st rounder) who they traded, and Adam Meadows (a 2nd rounder) who is the top backup at tackle. Denver has talent at tackle, it's just that the "less talented" undrafted players keep beating them out for a job. It stands to reason, then, that those undrafted tackles must be BETTER than the 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, and 3rd rounders on the roster.In addition, Denver has been managing its offensive line recently exactly the same way that it's ALWAYS managed its offensive line. Late round picks, long internships, heavy continuity, lots of money invested into the position... this is the Denver formula that they've stuck with since Shanahan came to town. Tom Nalen and Matt Lepsis are two of the best offensive linemen in Denver history (I'd call them two of the top three, along with Gary Zimmerman). Nalen was a 7th round pick, and Lepsis was an undrafted free agent. Mark Schlereth was a 10th round draft pick. The only 1st round draft picks Denver's had on its line under Shanahan were Gary Zimmerman (a likely HoFer) and George Foster (who was just ridden out of town), so obviously that's not the be-all, end-all that you seem to think it is.Furthermore, you make it sound like just because Denver doesn't spend high draft picks that they treat the offensive line like an afterthought. They don't. Rick Dennison basically amounts to one of the highest paid and most powerful offensive line coaches in the entire NFL. Denver (along with KC) routinely devotes a larger portion of its salary cap to the offensive line than any other team in the league. Denver just paid big money contracts to its BACKUP TACKLE AND GUARD. They draft players three years before they need them and pay those players for years just to ride the pine. I don't think that Denver's o-line will be fine just because they've always been fine... I believe that Denver's O-line is going to be just fine because there probably isn't another team in the league that devotes more time and resources to its offensive line than the Denver Broncos do.If you see some sort of indicators that Denver's offensive line is due for a decline, I'd love to hear them. I'm not saying that there aren't any there- Lepsis in particular is a concern, because the line is currently very dependent on him and he's coming back from a major injury. All I'm saying is that predicting Denver's offensive line will decline because they don't do things like the rest of the league, despite TWELVE YEARS worth of evidence that their way is better than everyone else's, is just sensationalism, and inaccurate to boot.