All-play style playoffs - anyone tried this? (1 Viewer)

[Tornacl]

I would really be interested to hear if anyone has tried a league like this:

The regular season would be a normal, head-to-head style league. In the first two rounds of the playoffs, instead of a typical bracket, the top scoring teams would advance. So for a typical 6-team playoff, in the first week, the top two seeds would have a bye. The remaining four teams would submit their lineups, and the two teams that scored the most points would advance. Same for the next round. And there would be only two remaining teams for the championship, so that would obviously be head-to-head.

We've all see leagues where one side of the bracket ends up putting up way more points than the other, but because of the bracket, they end up going home. In the five leagues that I'm in, that happened 4 times, in four different leagues this year in the first two rounds of the playoffs. In one of the leagues, a team lost last week while putting up the 3rd highest point total of the entire season, he just happened to play against a team that put up the 2nd highest score of the season.

The whole purpose would be to reward the teams that performed the best during the playoffs, not the team who had the easiest road to the championship game. The "easiest road" that I'm talking about has nothing to do with playoff seeds, but how the teams actually did during the playoffs.

I know a lot of people probably would scoff at the idea, just because it is different than what they're used to, but in money leagues especially, wouldn't you rather see the teams that performed well during the playoffs move on?

 

[hines]

yes, we have done something similar for 3 years. 6 teams make the playoffs and each team starts with a bonus based on their regular season score (25% of it). all-play over 2 weeks, all 6 teams play both. it has been an absolute wonder, taking playoffs from an afterthought to a thrilling system. teams that lucked into the playoffs now have to play really well in the playoffs to win, as they should.

 

[Yenrub]

One of my work leagues does something similar

Its 16 teams with 3 "bowl" games going on during weeks 15 and 16 (total points scored during those 2 weeks)

Top 6 teams make the "Top Bowl' all 6 teams get money based on how they finish in points scored weeks 15 and 16

The next 6 teams make the '2nd Bowl" only the top two teams in this bowl get money

Then their is the toilet bowl the bottom four teams only the top team in this bowl gets money and it's only $25 the entry fee to the league is $110 (plus transaction money)

Only those in the top bowl can get part of the transaction money

 

[ghostguy123]

I am a fan of playoffs that don't use head to head, but just takes the top scores.

So in week 14 there are four teams playing, so top 2 scores advance.

Then in week 15 same thing, then week 16 is the championship.

Or in the FFPC which I think is interesting, it takes the top 2 teams from week 14, then weeks 15-16 is a 4 team playoff using the combined scores of week 15 and 16, top combined score wins.

Of course sometimes with head to head you might score high and lose, or you might score low and win cause your opponent had the lowest score of all the playoffs teams.

But if you just take the top two scores, at leat you know the best performances advance.

 

[Shutout]

6 teams in the playoffs. No byes. All-play over weeks 13-15 to decide the two teams who play for the championship in Week 16. Best thing we have done in our league in....ever. It's exciting. There isn't that dumb occurence where that one bad week kills a team that has been solid all year. There's none of those scenarios where, due to seeding, the stronger teams all end up on one side of the bracket. And on and on.

You pretty much have to be living in the stone ages of USA Today box scores and calling in your lineup and leaving a message on his answering machine if you are still entertaining bye weeks in fantasy football. Who wants to play fantasy's version of the prevent defense by being on a bye and watching Wes Welker get hurt? Get out there and compete. We only have 17 weeks to do that. We can put our players on bye weeks in March or June. It has the same effect (Hey! I'm on bye. At least I can't lose this week.) Yeah, I can do that any week from January-September.

 

[zed2283]

I don't understand leagues (real or fantasy) that have a different set of rules in the playoffs than they do in the regular season. If you play head-to-head the entire season, why would you suddenly change it? Makes no sense.

 

[Shutout]

I don't understand leagues (real or fantasy) that have a different set of rules in the playoffs than they do in the regular season. If you play head-to-head the entire season, why would you suddenly change it? Makes no sense.

For our league, it was simple. We realize that H2H has its flaws. YOu see it all the time when people on boards like these say "I have the most points in the league but have a 5-8 record and missed the playoffs because I played the highest scoring team in the league 4-5 times." Its just random luck. You can play a guy and lose by 40 because that's the day Foles played Oakland. I can play the exact same team 4 weeks later and Foles plays in a snowstorm. Or play the same team 3 weeks before before Foles arrived.

But having an opponent to track each week is important during the season. If you do all-play all the time, to some people it loses a lot of that "me vs. you" feel.

But in the playoffs, people who have played fantasy football for any length of time understand that real teams quit or rest players or that marginal injuries result in IR or a freak snow or ice storm kills one game with big impact. Lots of little things that don't exist all year suddenly have huge impact when its most important. They also realize that its a fair trade-off at that point to help reduce that randomness, especially when you are no longer talking about competition across 12, 14, or 16 teams, but just across the 4-6 playoff teams.

 

[zed2283]

Well I'll just agree to disagree. All those random things you list happen all year, each and every week. If you don't like it, then go with all-play all year long. Just my opinion. I don't understand the reasoning that it doesn't matter in the regular season but does in the playoffs.

 

[Shutout]

Well I'll just agree to disagree. All those random things you list happen all year, each and every week. If you don't like it, then go with all-play all year long. Just my opinion. I don't understand the reasoning that it doesn't matter in the regular season but does in the playoffs.

It's like lemonade. You put a whole lemon in 8 ounces of water (One and done H2H in the playoffs) and its too much. Too random, too variable.. Overpowering.

But...if you put it in a pitcher of water (an entire season), it is diluted enough to take off the bitter edge, when it is spread across a bigger sample).

There is a time and place for both and the time for one random event to completely undo your entire season you have been involved in for 6 months is not in that playoff game.

But I don't agree at all with what you said about these things happening all year, each and every week. They don't. You don't have NFL teams resting their players in Week 3 or 6 or 9 because they haven't clinched anything. They do in weeks 15 and 16 sometimes. Early in the season if a guy has a high ankle sprain or concussion or beat up ribs, they don't IR him. They do when it happens in the last few weeks and especially if the team is out of the playoffs; just like they did Ben Tate, for example. In early weeks of the years, you don't see dead teams that have quit. You do at the end. Every once in a blue moon, you MIGHT see a game impacted by rain or wind early in the season. And if its a BIG issue, like a hurricane, they move the game. If it lightnings, they STOP the game. That happens...occasionaly. But at the end of the season, on any given Sunday, you might have 2-3 games played in extreme cold and snow.

It's all about spreading it out and being reasonable and not being some crotchety old-fashioned guy banging a table saying "good enough for grand pappy, good enough for us." We have evolved. Let's say that the Eagles/Lions game happened this week and had that weather. Does anyone really think that the difference in their ENTIRE season really ought to come down to one crazy snow game where your Calvin Johnson can't be thrown to and you get zilch but your opponent's McCoy benefits from the weather in almost the exact opposite way? That's silly. They are both great players, but certainly not to the degree where it should be "I got the RB..automatic win".

 

[spodog]

Well I'll just agree to disagree. All those random things you list happen all year, each and every week. If you don't like it, then go with all-play all year long. Just my opinion. I don't understand the reasoning that it doesn't matter in the regular season but does in the playoffs.

It's like lemonade. You put a whole lemon in 8 ounces of water (One and done H2H in the playoffs) and its too much. Too random, too variable.. Overpowering.

But...if you put it in a pitcher of water (an entire season), it is diluted enough to take off the bitter edge, when it is spread across a bigger sample).

LOL. As a foodie, I nominate this as one of the better metaphors ever used on this site.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I have a 10-team dynasty league that does a survivor-style playoff for our toilet bowl. Four teams make it, lowest score gets eliminated every week, the last team standing gets an extra pick for their efforts (the "11th pick" of the first round). It's served us well, and it keeps everyone more active and involved.

 

[zed2283]

Still disagree. You can have the highest scoring team in the league and not make the playoffs. High scoring teams miss the playoffs all the time in H2H leagues, each and every year, because luck (bad or good) happens all season long.

 

[wodahSShadow]

Still disagree. You can have the highest scoring team in the league and not make the playoffs. High scoring teams miss the playoffs all the time in H2H leagues, each and every year, because luck (bad or good) happens all season long.

:whoosh: What? How would the highest scoring team not making the playoffs ever be described as have "good" luck? Like gambling, fantasy has an element of luck that leaves even the most disadvantaged a chance at winning -- which keeps the regular guppies coming back. However, to think that having highest scoring team missing the playoffs is/should be acceptable is foolhardy, at best. It is one thing to have an element of luck, it is an entirely different animal when you are intentionally not rewarding skill (to whatever degree there is of it in FF). As any person with a brain should know - season points >>>> season record (assuming H2H) when it comes to determing best team. Blows my mind that leagues do not reserve a playoff spot for the highest scoring team.

 

[CalBear]

Blows my mind that leagues do not reserve a playoff spot for the highest scoring team.

Go visit the "should I tank" thread.

 

[zed2283]

Still disagree. You can have the highest scoring team in the league and not make the playoffs. High scoring teams miss the playoffs all the time in H2H leagues, each and every year, because luck (bad or good) happens all season long.

:whoosh: What? How would the highest scoring team not making the playoffs ever be described as have "good" luck? Like gambling, fantasy has an element of luck that leaves even the most disadvantaged a chance at winning -- which keeps the regular guppies coming back. However, to think that having highest scoring team missing the playoffs is/should be acceptable is foolhardy, at best. It is one thing to have an element of luck, it is an entirely different animal when you are intentionally not rewarding skill (to whatever degree there is of it in FF). As any person with a brain should know - season points >>>> season record (assuming H2H) when it comes to determing best team. Blows my mind that leagues do not reserve a playoff spot for the highest scoring team.

Well that guy didn't have good luck, but the teams playing against him did. Just like the DET/PHI example... the team with Foles had bad luck and the team with McCoy had good luck. If that high scoring team didn't make the playoffs, it means he had bad luck all season long, so I don't think the "diluted lemonade" theory worked for him. It happens every year in H2H leagues. And if those are the rules you're playing by, it makes no sense to change them at the end.

 

[CariocaSean]

The Giants beat the Patriots in the superbowl in 2007. What happened over the entire regular season and playoffs didn't have any effect on how the Superbowl itself played out.

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

 

[Shutout]

The Giants beat the Patriots in the superbowl in 2007. What happened over the entire regular season and playoffs didn't have any effect on how the Superbowl itself played out.

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

So, what week does your fantasy team take its bye? Since, you know, the Bengals had one on week9 so I guess to mimic the NFL, you should do the same. Do you have random drug tests for your league owners?

I mean, I get it. Emulating is good and all but you must draw a line. You only get 17 weeks. Why not use them all and actually play them? 16 weeks really since most leagues tend to avoid that league because the consensus groups have aknowledged that the luck is TOO far out there on that week.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Still disagree. You can have the highest scoring team in the league and not make the playoffs. High scoring teams miss the playoffs all the time in H2H leagues, each and every year, because luck (bad or good) happens all season long.

Only true in yahoo.com free leagues.

 

[CariocaSean]

The Giants beat the Patriots in the superbowl in 2007. What happened over the entire regular season and playoffs didn't have any effect on how the Superbowl itself played out.

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

So, what week does your fantasy team take its bye? Since, you know, the Bengals had one on week9 so I guess to mimic the NFL, you should do the same. Do you have random drug tests for your league owners?

I mean, I get it. Emulating is good and all but you must draw a line. You only get 17 weeks. Why not use them all and actually play them? 16 weeks really since most leagues tend to avoid that league because the consensus groups have aknowledged that the luck is TOO far out there on that week.

So your argument is that since we don't take byes, give our owners drug tests (really?) and we generally avoid week 17 because of a higher percentage of abberations, we should just take out of fantasy the whole Giants 2007 and Packers 2010 phenomenon?

Those are pretty silly examples.

To each their own. But why stop at changing the playoffs? Why not just do total points or all play through the entire season? Just do team QB, team RB, team WR, etc, to avoid the possibility of losing guys early to injury in games. Best ball with 30 man rosters? It goes on and on. To me, that just takes the fun out of fantasy football.

Total points/all play just doesn't mirror the reality of "any given Sunday" in the NFL.

 

[Pots]

I don't understand leagues (real or fantasy) that have a different set of rules in the playoffs than they do in the regular season. If you play head-to-head the entire season, why would you suddenly change it? Makes no sense.

Because the rules are already different for the playoffs when it's 1-and-done vs. best record over X amount of weeks?

 

[Pots]

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

How far do you take the 'mimics football realistically' concept? Do you get positive points for a -1 yard reception?

 

[shader]

I would really be interested to hear if anyone has tried a league like this:

The regular season would be a normal, head-to-head style league. In the first two rounds of the playoffs, instead of a typical bracket, the top scoring teams would advance. So for a typical 6-team playoff, in the first week, the top two seeds would have a bye. The remaining four teams would submit their lineups, and the two teams that scored the most points would advance. Same for the next round. And there would be only two remaining teams for the championship, so that would obviously be head-to-head.

We've all see leagues where one side of the bracket ends up putting up way more points than the other, but because of the bracket, they end up going home. In the five leagues that I'm in, that happened 4 times, in four different leagues this year in the first two rounds of the playoffs. In one of the leagues, a team lost last week while putting up the 3rd highest point total of the entire season, he just happened to play against a team that put up the 2nd highest score of the season.

The whole purpose would be to reward the teams that performed the best during the playoffs, not the team who had the easiest road to the championship game. The "easiest road" that I'm talking about has nothing to do with playoff seeds, but how the teams actually did during the playoffs.

I know a lot of people probably would scoff at the idea, just because it is different than what they're used to, but in money leagues especially, wouldn't you rather see the teams that performed well during the playoffs move on?

This is almost exactly what we do.

Minimizes the playoff luck factor, which is already way too high as is.

 

[shader]

The Giants beat the Patriots in the superbowl in 2007. What happened over the entire regular season and playoffs didn't have any effect on how the Superbowl itself played out.

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

Except that you can't control what the other team does. Fantasy football is not the same as regular football. It's more like golf.

 

[CariocaSean]

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

How far do you take the 'mimics football realistically' concept? Do you get positive points for a -1 yard reception?

No - not a PPR league. Not a fan of that, either. Don't even use decimals - I like the 10 yard milestones.

 

[Shutout]

The Giants beat the Patriots in the superbowl in 2007. What happened over the entire regular season and playoffs didn't have any effect on how the Superbowl itself played out.

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

So, what week does your fantasy team take its bye? Since, you know, the Bengals had one on week9 so I guess to mimic the NFL, you should do the same. Do you have random drug tests for your league owners?

I mean, I get it. Emulating is good and all but you must draw a line. You only get 17 weeks. Why not use them all and actually play them? 16 weeks really since most leagues tend to avoid that league because the consensus groups have aknowledged that the luck is TOO far out there on that week.

So your argument is that since we don't take byes, give our owners drug tests (really?) and we generally avoid week 17 because of a higher percentage of abberations, we should just take out of fantasy the whole Giants 2007 and Packers 2010 phenomenon?

Those are pretty silly examples.

To each their own. But why stop at changing the playoffs? Why not just do total points or all play through the entire season? Just do team QB, team RB, team WR, etc, to avoid the possibility of losing guys early to injury in games. Best ball with 30 man rosters? It goes on and on. To me, that just takes the fun out of fantasy football.

Total points/all play just doesn't mirror the reality of "any given Sunday" in the NFL.

Sigh...go back to sleep. You are far too extreme in trying to disucuss a subject that requires subtle reasoning and compromise to strike a balance.

We all know that there are things that would make it much less luck dependent (like the things you mention in the last paragraph) but leagues always look for balance; what they can live with to have it emulate the game without being pure boring addition of numbers.

Stay in your stoneage leagues while some of us discover fire. You'll easily recognize us because we WON'T be the ones that flood these boards with 50 threads every year whining about how we were the 2nd highest scoring team this week..."BUT I PLAYED THE HIGHEST SCORING TEAM...FML..." or how we were "clearly the best team all year" but then ran into Ryan Matthews that one day he scored 3 TDs and how you "wouldv'e beaten him in any other week except this one".

I really don't get it. These boards get overuun with people crying about how stupid this is and how stupid tha tis but then when you make a suggestion, they stick their hands in the pockets and say "whatcha gonna do? Wouldn't be like the NFL if we did that." Get creative or quit crying about it.

 

[CariocaSean]

The Giants beat the Patriots in the superbowl in 2007. What happened over the entire regular season and playoffs didn't have any effect on how the Superbowl itself played out.

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

So, what week does your fantasy team take its bye? Since, you know, the Bengals had one on week9 so I guess to mimic the NFL, you should do the same. Do you have random drug tests for your league owners?

I mean, I get it. Emulating is good and all but you must draw a line. You only get 17 weeks. Why not use them all and actually play them? 16 weeks really since most leagues tend to avoid that league because the consensus groups have aknowledged that the luck is TOO far out there on that week.

So your argument is that since we don't take byes, give our owners drug tests (really?) and we generally avoid week 17 because of a higher percentage of abberations, we should just take out of fantasy the whole Giants 2007 and Packers 2010 phenomenon?

Those are pretty silly examples.

To each their own. But why stop at changing the playoffs? Why not just do total points or all play through the entire season? Just do team QB, team RB, team WR, etc, to avoid the possibility of losing guys early to injury in games. Best ball with 30 man rosters? It goes on and on. To me, that just takes the fun out of fantasy football.

Total points/all play just doesn't mirror the reality of "any given Sunday" in the NFL.

Sigh...go back to sleep. You are far too extreme in trying to disucuss a subject that requires subtle reasoning and compromise to strike a balance.

From the guy who asked if we drug test owners?

 

[CariocaSean]

The Giants beat the Patriots in the superbowl in 2007. What happened over the entire regular season and playoffs didn't have any effect on how the Superbowl itself played out.

I get the whole "one bad game" and "regular season should be rewarded" concept. But give me head to head all the way to the end - it mimics real football a lot more realistically.

So, what week does your fantasy team take its bye? Since, you know, the Bengals had one on week9 so I guess to mimic the NFL, you should do the same. Do you have random drug tests for your league owners?

I mean, I get it. Emulating is good and all but you must draw a line. You only get 17 weeks. Why not use them all and actually play them? 16 weeks really since most leagues tend to avoid that league because the consensus groups have aknowledged that the luck is TOO far out there on that week.

So your argument is that since we don't take byes, give our owners drug tests (really?) and we generally avoid week 17 because of a higher percentage of abberations, we should just take out of fantasy the whole Giants 2007 and Packers 2010 phenomenon?

Those are pretty silly examples.

To each their own. But why stop at changing the playoffs? Why not just do total points or all play through the entire season? Just do team QB, team RB, team WR, etc, to avoid the possibility of losing guys early to injury in games. Best ball with 30 man rosters? It goes on and on. To me, that just takes the fun out of fantasy football.

Total points/all play just doesn't mirror the reality of "any given Sunday" in the NFL.

Sigh...go back to sleep. You are far too extreme in trying to disucuss a subject that requires subtle reasoning and compromise to strike a balance.

We all know that there are things that would make it much less luck dependent (like the things you mention in the last paragraph) but leagues always look for balance; what they can live with to have it emulate the game without being pure boring addition of numbers.

Stay in your stoneage leagues while some of us discover fire. You'll easily recognize us because we WON'T be the ones that flood these boards with 50 threads every year whining about how we were the 2nd highest scoring team this week..."BUT I PLAYED THE HIGHEST SCORING TEAM...FML..." or how we were "clearly the best team all year" but then ran into Ryan Matthews that one day he scored 3 TDs and how you "wouldv'e beaten him in any other week except this one".

I really don't get it. These boards get overuun with people crying about how stupid this is and how stupid tha tis but then when you make a suggestion, they stick their hands in the pockets and say "whatcha gonna do? Wouldn't be like the NFL if we did that." Get creative or quit crying about it.

I won't be one of those guys crying about it. Take it up with them.

My main league is over 20 years old. We have a lot of tradition and records. We like things "stone age". Still... can't understand total points in the most important games of the year. Talk about a buzz kill!

 

[Warrior]

6 teams in the playoffs. No byes. All-play over weeks 13-15 to decide the two teams who play for the championship in Week 16. Best thing we have done in our league in....ever. It's exciting. There isn't that dumb occurence where that one bad week kills a team that has been solid all year. There's none of those scenarios where, due to seeding, the stronger teams all end up on one side of the bracket. And on and on.

You pretty much have to be living in the stone ages of USA Today box scores and calling in your lineup and leaving a message on his answering machine if you are still entertaining bye weeks in fantasy football. Who wants to play fantasy's version of the prevent defense by being on a bye and watching Wes Welker get hurt? Get out there and compete. We only have 17 weeks to do that. We can put our players on bye weeks in March or June. It has the same effect (Hey! I'm on bye. At least I can't lose this week.) Yeah, I can do that any week from January-September.

Couldn't disagree more.

The round 1 bye is a reward to the top 2 teams in the league. A reward that they deserve. Without that bye, there's no real reason to fight for 1st or second place in the regular season...getting 6th place is just as good. And the analogy to USA Today makes absolutely 0 sense to anyone but you.

 

[CariocaSean]

6 teams in the playoffs. No byes. All-play over weeks 13-15 to decide the two teams who play for the championship in Week 16. Best thing we have done in our league in....ever. It's exciting. There isn't that dumb occurence where that one bad week kills a team that has been solid all year. There's none of those scenarios where, due to seeding, the stronger teams all end up on one side of the bracket. And on and on.

You pretty much have to be living in the stone ages of USA Today box scores and calling in your lineup and leaving a message on his answering machine if you are still entertaining bye weeks in fantasy football. Who wants to play fantasy's version of the prevent defense by being on a bye and watching Wes Welker get hurt? Get out there and compete. We only have 17 weeks to do that. We can put our players on bye weeks in March or June. It has the same effect (Hey! I'm on bye. At least I can't lose this week.) Yeah, I can do that any week from January-September.

Couldn't disagree more.

The round 1 bye is a reward to the top 2 teams in the league. A reward that they deserve. And the analogy to USA Today makes absolutely 0 sense to anyone but you.

It's just so subtle that it won't make sense to most.

 

[jerry jones]

My league, 5 teams make the playoffs..all 5 play weeks 14 & 15, highest 2 scoring teams go to the super bowl. Works much better than seeing the "best" team get a bad break on one week and be out, this way offers the chance to get it back the second week.

 

[hines]

the all-play playoffs idea is the future. you have to give bonuses to teams for their regular season performances or else the final weeks of the regular season become meaningless for some teams

 

[Phenix]

My league, 5 teams make the playoffs..all 5 play weeks 14 & 15, highest 2 scoring teams go to the super bowl. Works much better than seeing the "best" team get a bad break on one week and be out, this way offers the chance to get it back the second week.

I scored 224 in Week 14 on a bye, in Week 15 I scored 116 and was Charles'd (That should be an adjective now). I was up in points and had the most wins, and I'm out while a dude who squeaks into the playoffs has a shot to claim the title.

All play and points involves more skill and shows the best team, h2h is luck and has been and always will be.

 

[kardplayer]

We have a league that has a regular season playoff and then a post season playoff. For the post season playoff, teams 7-12 play wild card weekend all play, with top 2 advancing to play in the quarterfinals...

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

yes, we have done something similar for 3 years. 6 teams make the playoffs and each team starts with a bonus based on their regular season score (25% of it). all-play over 2 weeks, all 6 teams play both. it has been an absolute wonder, taking playoffs from an afterthought to a thrilling system. teams that lucked into the playoffs now have to play really well in the playoffs to win, as they should.