The jerk store called and they are running out of you.......
(damnit.....nice pick. It's where I was going next)
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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Yo Mama
- Start date
(damnit.....nice pick. It's where I was going next)
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree with that but he was saying in 2021 teams shot threes X times per game. However, I’m sure that number was lower the first half of the decade. Using 2021 pace of efficiency or style of play isn’t how we should look at the entire 10-11 period.
Doug B
Footballguy
Crazy to think seven more 80s centers have to be taken. Cartwright was skilled, just had a broken-down body for a while. Kind of had an Antonio McDyess career arc -- came back from missing a season and lasted a long time as limited-minutes a rotational player.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Yeah, it’ll be a difficult decade to judge because of how drastically the style of play has changed.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
50s-60s is the other. You look at a HOFer like Slater Martin and his per game stats look like a joke next to 60s guards who weren’t HOFers but when you factor in the shot clock, it completely changes the game. In the 50s the top scorers are averaging about 23-28 a game. In the 60s we see that go up to 35-50.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
wikkid's 70s team
PG - Calvin Murphy (reallyreallyreally wanted VanLier here)
SG - Charlie Scott
SF - Cazzie Russell
PF - Bad News Barnes
C - Dave Cowens
Followed the Heinsohn model by responding to the stultifying stiltness of the 70s with some mobility. Cal in for JoJo, Bad News in for Silas, Cazzie in for Hondo. Like most of the teams i'm building in this, this squad could play today. Where my trophy at?
PG - Calvin Murphy (reallyreallyreally wanted VanLier here)
SG - Charlie Scott
SF - Cazzie Russell
PF - Bad News Barnes
C - Dave Cowens
Followed the Heinsohn model by responding to the stultifying stiltness of the 70s with some mobility. Cal in for JoJo, Bad News in for Silas, Cazzie in for Hondo. Like most of the teams i'm building in this, this squad could play today. Where my trophy at?
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Is today the gold standard for evaluating teams for this? I am not sure if this is the best metric necessarily. Each era has plusses and minuses that would make other era players have issues to some degree. How are officials going to call these pick up games? Like today or like the 70's. I mean can you throw punches and still remain in the game?
Costanza: Did I receive a call? Constanza?
Chinese Restaurant guy: Yes. I yell out Cartwright, Cartwright and no one answered. I tell lady nobody here, she yell curseword and hang up.
Costanza: Constanza?
Chinese Restaurant guy: Yes
Jayrod
Footballguy
21.4 - Andre Miller 00's PG
If you look up consistent in the dictionary, Andre Miller's picture will be there. He played 17 seasons and is #11 on the all-time assists list, but only led the league on 1 occasion. No all-star games, no all-defensive teams, no all-NBA teams and no rings. Played in every game 10 of his 17 years.
I don't need a stud with my current squad to come in and start chucking it, I need a guy to get the team in the right spots, control the flow and let Pierce and Boozer go to work in the half court. He'll play good defense, distribute and knock down FT's and is far and away the next best PG in the decade (I even had him ranked above one that was drafted before him).
@Ilov80s
If you look up consistent in the dictionary, Andre Miller's picture will be there. He played 17 seasons and is #11 on the all-time assists list, but only led the league on 1 occasion. No all-star games, no all-defensive teams, no all-NBA teams and no rings. Played in every game 10 of his 17 years.
I don't need a stud with my current squad to come in and start chucking it, I need a guy to get the team in the right spots, control the flow and let Pierce and Boozer go to work in the half court. He'll play good defense, distribute and knock down FT's and is far and away the next best PG in the decade (I even had him ranked above one that was drafted before him).
@Ilov80s
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
decidedly not. this team is designed to rule in the 70s just as the multiple 70s champion Celtics did. but i was one of the ones clamoring about what the stats were saying during the 25 years that the NBA had the 3 point line before factoring it into their strategy of play. just as now, i'm thinking a 2pt expansion league would be fun to watch. being ready to play with and against type is the secret to winning basketball (next to the P&R anyways) - getting shots, steals and stops.
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
It’s funny, I was going to give you a hard time for calling out Martin because I still had him on my list and didn’t realize you had drafted him a while back. Was surprised he was still out there, and this explains why.
modogg
Footballguy
i was so tempted to take him. He made a a good amount of money on the Sixers in a game where he hit 2 FTs in OT to cover a spread. Almost grabbed him based soley on that
Jayrod
Footballguy
Mike Bibby. Outside of ppg, Miller is better than him in every stat and especially advanced stats, which are usually not as kind to guys who play as long as Miller.
Jayrod
Footballguy
On a side note, Mike Bibby coaches a HS team and his squad came to a showcase tournament here in Springfield (Bass Pro Tournament of Champions), which is a big deal around these parts because there is usually 1 or 2 pros that play every year.
I am a local referee and they have 7-8 local guys ref the tournament every year. I have never had the honor, but I know all of the local guys and we chat a lot when we drive to games.
So apparently, Bibby was the biggest jerk coach most of the guys had ever worked with. I believe he got ejected out of their opening round game. He was also extremely ripped (looked more like a body builder than the PG I remembered playing in the NBA) to the point I was wondering if he was on something, especially considering the absolute temper tantrums he threw during the games.
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I had Miller on my short list but ended up pulling the trigger on Terrell Brandon who I thought was a notch above.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
21.5 Brook Lopez C 10s
1x All Star 1x All Def Team
I love this value here. Big body with a back to the basket post game who always had a deep jumper and finally converted that to the modern NBA 3 game. Since 2016 he’s shooting 5 a game and making them at a 35% clip. He’s become one of the better three point shooting centers in the league. His peak 8 year stretch he was scoring 20, pulling down 7, with 1.5 dimes and 2 blocks a game.
@Frostillicus
1x All Star 1x All Def Team
I love this value here. Big body with a back to the basket post game who always had a deep jumper and finally converted that to the modern NBA 3 game. Since 2016 he’s shooting 5 a game and making them at a 35% clip. He’s become one of the better three point shooting centers in the league. His peak 8 year stretch he was scoring 20, pulling down 7, with 1.5 dimes and 2 blocks a game.
@Frostillicus
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Kev4029
Footballguy
Loved Andre Miller and his old man game. He had a herky jerky nature to his game that was surprisingly delightful to watch. He also did a fantastic job of pushing the ball up the court for fast breaks even though he was never moving fast.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I had Brandon in the 90's (so I didn't compare them directly) but his objective ranking number was calculated better than Miller's.
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
21.6 SF George Yardley, 60s
Career: 19.2ppg, 8.9rpg
Peak: 22.2ppg, 10.3rpg
Hall of Famer
6x All-Star (in 7 career seasons)
2x All-NBA
1 scoring title
Averaged 20.2/7.9 in his final season, then retired to open an Engineering Company.
Career: 19.2ppg, 8.9rpg
Peak: 22.2ppg, 10.3rpg
Hall of Famer
6x All-Star (in 7 career seasons)
2x All-NBA
1 scoring title
Averaged 20.2/7.9 in his final season, then retired to open an Engineering Company.
EYLive
Footballguy
21.07 - Phil Chenier, PG, 1970
20pts, 4 Rbs, 3.5 ast. He was 6'3" 180lbs so I'm slotting him in at PG.
NBA champion (1978)
3× NBA All-Star (1974, 1975, 1977)
All-NBA Second Team (1975)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1972)
First-team All-Pac-8 (1971)
No. 45 retired by Washington Wizards
20pts, 4 Rbs, 3.5 ast. He was 6'3" 180lbs so I'm slotting him in at PG.
NBA champion (1978)
3× NBA All-Star (1974, 1975, 1977)
All-NBA Second Team (1975)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1972)
First-team All-Pac-8 (1971)
No. 45 retired by Washington Wizards
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
good that u dont have any usage guys, since there wont be any room to drive the lane. Wes aint a PF - it was tried\
ETA: lotta talent, tho
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Nice team. Can Barry play the point 3? Ball handling is lacking. My 70s knowledge is limited but I think Chenier was a jump shot specialist. Knight is already out of position at the 2 spot.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
you ask Barry can he play the point, the answer will be "yes". you ask Barry can he stuff the Stilt, the answer will be "yes". you ask Barry was the song "John Henry" written about him, the answer will be "yes". you ask Barry can he take over for Streep in Sophie's Choice, the answer will be "yes"
EYLive
Footballguy
That is true. I had to move guys around to make it fit, so it's more of an All-Decade All-Star team.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
scoobus
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
I looked at him for several rounds as the top guy on my board. Statistically, he's a dynamo. But it was all vs the slowwhites of 50s NBA. Plus he looks like Ichabod Crane. I finally could put him on ignore once I moved Rajah to the 60s. At this point, I think he is a great pick.
Kev4029
Footballguy
He has been on my short list for the last couple turns but I just don't know anything about these old dudes and it's more fun for me to argue about players that I've seen.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I looked at him like 8 rounds ago but saw his picture and just laughed while crossing his name off my mental list.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Dude is in danger of timing out. He hasn't been on in 5 hours. I sent him a PM a bit ago, but he's still a no-show.
ETA: I guess he technically is at an hour now.
@trader jake, don't trip as you run up to the podium.
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trader jake
Footballguy
Will do. I'm taking a spot Instinctive already has filled, but someone else may snag his player if he doesn't hop on soon.
trader jake
Footballguy
21.09 Hersey Hawkins – SG 90s
The forgotten great player of the 1990s. In an era where outside shooting was still vastly underrated, The Hawk brought it. He shot over 40% on 3’s in 8 of his first 10 seasons (on good volume), and started all but seven games over that entire 10-year stretch. The advanced numbers help his case as well (Hawkins played 13 seasons – his closest win share comp is Jason Kidd).
This consistency should not have been a surprise to NBA observers because he played every game of his 4-year college career. He made the US Olympic team, finished as a consensus 1st team All-American (leading the nation in scoring), won every Player of the Year Award, and finished his collegiate career as the 4th-leading scorer in NCAA Division 1 history. He entered the Association in 1989 as the #6 overall pick, made the All-Rookie team, and the All-Star game two seasons later.
Besides being among the best 3pt shooters in the 1990s, he was consistently among the league leaders in free throws, FT%, steals, and true shooting. He finished #4 in the NBA in offensive rating in 1996-97 and #6 overall in 97-98 while his defensive win shares was top 15 in 1995-96. Hawkins was a humble leader in the locker room, was extremely well-respected around the league, and won the NBA’s Sportsmanship Award in 1999. Today he'd make a gazillion dollars.
The forgotten great player of the 1990s. In an era where outside shooting was still vastly underrated, The Hawk brought it. He shot over 40% on 3’s in 8 of his first 10 seasons (on good volume), and started all but seven games over that entire 10-year stretch. The advanced numbers help his case as well (Hawkins played 13 seasons – his closest win share comp is Jason Kidd).
This consistency should not have been a surprise to NBA observers because he played every game of his 4-year college career. He made the US Olympic team, finished as a consensus 1st team All-American (leading the nation in scoring), won every Player of the Year Award, and finished his collegiate career as the 4th-leading scorer in NCAA Division 1 history. He entered the Association in 1989 as the #6 overall pick, made the All-Rookie team, and the All-Star game two seasons later.
Besides being among the best 3pt shooters in the 1990s, he was consistently among the league leaders in free throws, FT%, steals, and true shooting. He finished #4 in the NBA in offensive rating in 1996-97 and #6 overall in 97-98 while his defensive win shares was top 15 in 1995-96. Hawkins was a humble leader in the locker room, was extremely well-respected around the league, and won the NBA’s Sportsmanship Award in 1999. Today he'd make a gazillion dollars.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
When your writeup makes me think, "dang, I should have drafted this guy", you did a good job.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
21.10 - Al Jefferson - PF/2010's
Pair him up with Andre Drummond and hope for the best at this point.
Career highlights and awards
Pair him up with Andre Drummond and hope for the best at this point.
Career highlights and awards
- All-NBA Third Team (2014)
- NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2005)
- First-team Parade All-American (2004)
- McDonald's All-American (2004)
- Mississippi Mr. Basketball (2004)
modogg
Footballguy
the judging between decades is a great point. that was why i went high on a guy in the 60s who averaged over 20 ppg knowing the scoring was so much lower back then.
also will be interesting when we do judging per decade and we have some guys who only played a few years in that particular decade. I was thinking about with some guys i had lined up, but they went little earlier and were placed in a decade where they only played a few years.
i think with young guys like Luka it may be different to weight this impact, but it will be an interesting conversation when we get to it. Looking at my team i have Embiid, who basically sat out his first 2 years to perserve his body and heal better than he would have if he had been playing in a season. i was thinking could possibly impact his ranking overall, but looking at the 2010s i only see one potential guy who could actually guard Embiid, and this is still early in Embiid's career where he is developing a more experienced game
Will also be interesting to see how we weigh rule changes over the years. The game in the 2000s has definitely become less of a big man game, and a ton of that is based on rule changes. guys in the 80s and 90s benefited with their stats from those pre-rule differences
Jayrod
Footballguy
I'm still beside myself over the 2010's Jayrodsquad disrespect.
If somebody thinks this group will have "spacing" problems on the offense end, you know NOTHING about how to win a basketball game.
If I don't win the decade, I will be livid. That team is perfectly constructed for the vision I have.
On the defensive end:
- Wade picks up the best guard (elite quickness/hands), Iguadola if they have too much size for Wade, but he likely guards the SF (won finals MVP basically for being effective guarding LeBron) and Lillard takes the weakest of the perimeter threats. Giannis takes the most agile of the bigs, but looks to roam and pick up steals/blocks from the backside ( basic DPOY stuff) while Horford forms the wall nearest the paint on whoever is slower (known as an Embiid stopper). Giannis/Horford crash the glass with Lillard the outlet and Wade/Iggy goooooooooooo!!!
On the offensive end (if we can't get anything off the break, which will be nasty):
-Basic set of pick and roll with D-wade and Giannis after a high screen and roll with Horford to get the D off balance and a possibly favorable switch. Then attack with Lillard stationed in the ballside corner and Iggy/Horford off-ball screen action on the weakside. You have an elite 3 shooter with deep range, an elite slasher/pullup shooter going downhill, the most skilled 7-footer in history rim running, a great basket-cutter/finisher and a great pick and pop shooter doing their thing on the weakside and 4 guys that can average>5 assists a game moving the ball and cutting. Gaps and holes will present themselves and open looks/dunks/FT's will be a plenty and ain't nothing an opponent can do to stop it.
ETA: Plus, they are all 5 high basketball IQ guys and great teammates by all accounts. Chemistry, sharing the ball, working together will come natural as they are all 5 concerned with winning, not stats.
If somebody thinks this group will have "spacing" problems on the offense end, you know NOTHING about how to win a basketball game.
If I don't win the decade, I will be livid. That team is perfectly constructed for the vision I have.
On the defensive end:
- Wade picks up the best guard (elite quickness/hands), Iguadola if they have too much size for Wade, but he likely guards the SF (won finals MVP basically for being effective guarding LeBron) and Lillard takes the weakest of the perimeter threats. Giannis takes the most agile of the bigs, but looks to roam and pick up steals/blocks from the backside ( basic DPOY stuff) while Horford forms the wall nearest the paint on whoever is slower (known as an Embiid stopper). Giannis/Horford crash the glass with Lillard the outlet and Wade/Iggy goooooooooooo!!!
On the offensive end (if we can't get anything off the break, which will be nasty):
-Basic set of pick and roll with D-wade and Giannis after a high screen and roll with Horford to get the D off balance and a possibly favorable switch. Then attack with Lillard stationed in the ballside corner and Iggy/Horford off-ball screen action on the weakside. You have an elite 3 shooter with deep range, an elite slasher/pullup shooter going downhill, the most skilled 7-footer in history rim running, a great basket-cutter/finisher and a great pick and pop shooter doing their thing on the weakside and 4 guys that can average>5 assists a game moving the ball and cutting. Gaps and holes will present themselves and open looks/dunks/FT's will be a plenty and ain't nothing an opponent can do to stop it.
ETA: Plus, they are all 5 high basketball IQ guys and great teammates by all accounts. Chemistry, sharing the ball, working together will come natural as they are all 5 concerned with winning, not stats.
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
Not a good day for the streak
@Instinctive skipped
@Mister CIA 10 minutes left
@Doug B on deck
@higgins in the hole
@Instinctive skipped
@Mister CIA 10 minutes left
@Doug B on deck
@higgins in the hole
It's all this @Jayrodtalk of how dominate his team is. Everyone is starting to give up.Not a good day for the streak
@Instinctive skipped
@Mister CIA 10 minutes left
@Doug B on deck
@higgins in the hole
(PS - My 2010's team of Paul, Mitchell, Jefferson, and Drummond will easily take his squad and I don't even need a SF.....hahahah)
Doug B
Footballguy
It is for my team.....except I was supposed to have Cousy as my 60's PG, Moses Malone as my 80's C, and Jordan as my 90's SG......other than that it looks right.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
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