***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (1 Viewer)

[wikkidpissah]

1990s Rankings, continued

MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES DIVISION

14th place - 3 points

Instinctive  - Nate McMillan, Drazen Petrovic, Michael Finley, Dale Davis, Elden Campbell

Average Score: 4.00   Best: 10   Worst: 1

!

ranking this decade gave me a headache. i eventually submitted my top 2 teams (neither of which had Mike on it, for a very specific reason) with evvybody else tied for third, but Me Mama threw it back in my face. but this team here woulda won me a LOT of bracket money and got me in the semis. it plays a pantload better than it looks. figure i'd give SOMEbody a good feeling about their 90s team that actually deserved it. @Ilov80s deserved more cred, too - just shows the fat lot y'all knew about hoops when you were twelve.

 

[Yo Mama]

1990s Rankings, continued

UTAH JAZZ DIVISION

Ah, the poor Jazz.  Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.  They used the all-time duo of Stockton and Malone to have consistent greatness (and incredible hateability) throughout the decade.  Problem was, they always ran up against stacked teams in the West (Portland, Houston, Sonics) and then had to meet the Bulls dynasty in the finals when they ultimately got that far.  The Jazz had a winning % of .688 for the decade, made the playoffs every year of the 90s, and made the finals twice in 97 and 98.

These top teams are all excellent – great balance with some of my favorite players of the decade.  The just couldn’t top the juggernaut.

4th place - 13 points

Higgins  - Tim Hardaway, Reggie Miller, Eddie Jones, Clifford Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo

Average Score: 12.56   Best: 15   Worst: 10

3rd place - 14 points

Trader Jake - Mark Price, Hersey Hawkins, Grant Hill, Charles Barkley, Brad Daugherty

Average Score: 12.78   Best: 15   Worst: 8

2nd place - 15 points

Mister CIA  - Gary Payton, Rod Strickland, Cedric Ceballos, Horace Grant, Hakeem Olajuwon

Average Score: 13.78   Best: 15   Worst: 11

 

[Yo Mama]

1990s Rankings, continued

CHICAGO BULLS DIVISION

There was one team that dominated the 90s, that was the 90s.  Where the 80s Lakers/Celtics dynasties brought the NBA to the forefront of the US, the 90s Bulls dynasty brought the sport to international prominence.  They went to the finals six times and won them all, pausing only for a two year gambling suspension of Michael Jordan.  They became international superstars and won an amazing 71% of their games in the decade.

As easy as it was to pick the best NBA team of the decade, it was just as easy to pick the best 90s team of our draft.

1st place - 16 points

Modogg  - John Stockton, Michael Jordan, Dan Majerle, Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman

Average Score: 16.00   Best: 16   Worst: 16

 

[Yo Mama]

1990s Final Rankings

16 pts - Modogg  - John Stockton, Michael Jordan, Dan Majerle, Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman

15 pts - Mister CIA  - Gary Payton, Rod Strickland, Cedric Ceballos, Horace Grant, Hakeem Olajuwon

14 pts - Trader Jake - Mark Price, Hersey Hawkins, Grant Hill, Charles Barkley, Brad Daugherty

13 pts - Higgins  - Tim Hardaway, Reggie Miller, Eddie Jones, Clifford Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo

12 pts - Frosty  - Terry Porter, Doug Christie, Glen Rice, Shawn Kemp, Alonzo Mourning

11 pts - Doug B  - Micheal Williams, Mitch Richmond, Detlef Schrempf, Antonio McDyess, David Robinson

10 pts - Kev4029  - Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek, Anthony Mason, Karl Malone, Rik Smits

9 pts - Wikkidpissah  - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Lewis, Danny Manning, Arvydas Sabonis

8 pts - Scoobus  - Mookie Blaylock, John Starks, Chris Mullin, Vin Baker, Kevin Willis

7 pts - Yo Mama  - Damon Stoudamire, Latrell Sprewell, Glenn Robinson, Otis Thorpe, Vlade Divac

6 pts - Timschochet  - Nick Van Exel, Penny Hardaway, Bryon Russell, Dennis Rodman, Shawn Bradley

5 pts - Gally - Terrell Brandon, Isaiah Rider, Scottie Pippen, Tom Gugliotta, Dino Radja

4 pts - Ilov80s  - Kenny Anderson, Joe Dumars, Sean Elliott, Juwan Howard, Rony Seikaly

3 pts - Instinctive  - Nate McMillan, Drazen Petrovic, Michael Finley, Dale Davis, Elden Campbell

2 pts - EYLive  - Mark Jackson, Alan Houston, Toni Kukoc, Charles Oakley, Jayson Williams

1 pts - Jayrod  - Kenny Smith, Steve Smith, Derrick McKey, Christian Laettner, Hot Rod Williams

 

[Desert_Power]

1990s Rankings, continued

UTAH JAZZ DIVISION

Ah, the poor Jazz.  Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.  They used the all-time duo of Stockton and Malone to have consistent greatness (and incredible hateability) throughout the decade.  Problem was, they always ran up against stacked teams in the West (Portland, Houston, Sonics) and then had to meet the Bulls dynasty in the finals when they ultimately got that far.  The Jazz had a winning % of .688 for the decade, made the playoffs every year of the 90s, and made the finals twice in 97 and 98.

These top teams are all excellent – great balance with some of my favorite players of the decade.  The just couldn’t top the juggernaut.

4th place - 13 points

Higgins  - Tim Hardaway, Reggie Miller, Eddie Jones, Clifford Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo

Average Score: 12.56   Best: 15   Worst: 10

3rd place - 14 points

Trader Jake - Mark Price, Hersey Hawkins, Grant Hill, Charles Barkley, Brad Daugherty

Average Score: 12.78   Best: 15   Worst: 8

2nd place - 15 points

Mister CIA  - Gary Payton, Rod Strickland, Cedric Ceballos, Horace Grant, Hakeem Olajuwon

Average Score: 13.78   Best: 15   Worst: 11

Some really good teams here, but we all knew where this was heading.

 

[Yo Mama]

1990s Rankings Details

16 - Modogg  - 16,16,16,16,16,16,16,16,16

15 - Mister CIA  - 11,13,13,14,14,14,15,15,15

14 - Trader Jake - 8,10,11,13,14,14,15,15,15

13 - Higgins  - 10,11,12,12,12,13,13,15,15

12 - Frosty  - 8,9,10,11,12,13,14,14,15

11 - Doug B  - 10,10,10,11,11,13,13,14,14

10 - Kev4029  - 9,10,11,11,11,12,12,12,12

9 - Wikkidpissah  - 4,5,7,8,8,8,9,9,13

8 - Scoobus  - 5,6,6,7,7,9,9,9,12

7 - Yo Mama  - 3,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,9

6 - Timschochet  - 1,3,4,5,7,7,8,8,9

5 - Gally - 1,2,2,4,5,6,7,8,10

4 - Ilov80s  - 3,3,4,4,4,5,5,7,8

3 - Instinctive  - 1,2,2,2,3,4,6,6,10

2 - EYLive  - 1,1,2,3,3,3,4,5,6

1 - Jayrod  - 1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,4

 

[Yo Mama]

Combined Standings (60s, 70s, 80s, 90s)

49 - Trader Jake (9, 12, 14, 14)

42 - Wikkidpissah  (8, 9, 16, 9)

42 - Yo Mama  (11, 14, 10, 7)

40 - Ilov80s  (16, 5, 15, 4)

39 - Higgins  (1, 16, 9, 13)

36 - Frosty  (14, 6, 4, 12)

35 - Kev4029  (13, 11, 1, 10)

34 - Doug B  (5, 7, 11, 11)

33 - Timschochet  (12, 8, 7, 6)

33 - Jayrod  (4, 15, 13, 1)

31 - Instinctive  (15, 1, 12, 3)

30 - Gally (10, 10, 5, 5)

27 - Mister CIA  (2, 2, 8, 15)

25 - Modogg  (3, 4, 2, 16)

25 - EYLive  (7, 13, 3, 2)

23 - Scoobus  (6, 3, 6, 8 )

 

[wikkidpissah]

1990s Rankings, continued

1st place - 16 points

Modogg  - John Stockton, Michael Jordan, Dan Majerle, Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman

Average Score: 16.00   Best: 16   Worst: 16

even Jordan cant win with four guys, and there's NO way DC steps out on the floor to play center in the 90s

 

[Yo Mama]

Off to do some chores

 

[scoobus]

Combined Standings (60s, 70s, 80s, 90s)

49 - Trader Jake (9, 12, 14, 14)

42 - Wikkidpissah  (8, 9, 16, 9)

42 - Yo Mama  (11, 14, 10, 7)

40 - Ilov80s  (16, 5, 15, 4)

39 - Higgins  (1, 16, 9, 13)

36 - Frosty  (14, 6, 4, 12)

35 - Kev4029  (13, 11, 1, 10)

34 - Doug B  (5, 7, 11, 11)

33 - Timschochet  (12, 8, 7, 6)

33 - Jayrod  (4, 15, 13, 1)

31 - Instinctive  (15, 1, 12, 3)

30 - Gally (10, 10, 5, 5)

27 - Mister CIA  (2, 2, 8, 15)

25 - Modogg  (3, 4, 2, 16)

25 - EYLive  (7, 13, 3, 2)

23 - Scoobus  (6, 3, 6, 8 )

Finally

 

[Yo Mama]

!

ranking this decade gave me a headache. i eventually submitted my top 2 teams (neither of which had Mike on it, for a very specific reason) with evvybody else tied for third, but Me Mama threw it back in my face. but this team here woulda won me a LOT of bracket money and got me in the semis. it plays a pantload better than it looks. figure i'd give SOMEbody a good feeling about their 90s team that actually deserved it. @Ilov80s deserved more cred, too - just shows the fat lot y'all knew about hoops when you were twelve.

My goal is to make everyone hate me by the end of this. Three down (counting myself for taking this on), thirteen to go. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

My goal is to make everyone hate me by the end of this. Three down (counting myself for taking this on), thirteen to go. 

you got me all wrong, Ma - hate-unto-disinterest is my default position. love is earned and, other than offering food & disgusting physical acts, one of the quickest ways to do that is to edit me without making me angry. 

 

[Instinctive]

!

ranking this decade gave me a headache. i eventually submitted my top 2 teams (neither of which had Mike on it, for a very specific reason) with evvybody else tied for third, but Me Mama threw it back in my face. but this team here woulda won me a LOT of bracket money and got me in the semis. it plays a pantload better than it looks. figure i'd give SOMEbody a good feeling about their 90s team that actually deserved it. @Ilov80s deserved more cred, too - just shows the fat lot y'all knew about hoops when you were twelve.

Thanks. I'm kind of floored right now to think anyone had my squad at the bottom. To me, shows a complete and total lack of understanding of the game of basketball. I think, true to my write-up, there are reasonable arguments for everywhere from 8th to 13th. To end up with an average at 14th is shocking. Might be the single most surprising result I've seen across all decades so far. 

 

[Yo Mama]

Thanks. I'm kind of floored right now to think anyone had my squad at the bottom. To me, shows a complete and total lack of understanding of the game of basketball. I think, true to my write-up, there are reasonable arguments for everywhere from 8th to 13th. To end up with an average at 14th is shocking. Might be the single most surprising result I've seen across all decades so far. 

I think Petrovic was the polarizing factor for your team with his high peak an unfortunately short career (I wasn’t the 1).
 

I think we’re going to have some really wide swings in judging when we get to the 10s for the same reason regarding the current guys who have only played a couple seasons. 

 

[Instinctive]

I think Petronius was the polarizing factor for your team with his high peak an unfortunately short career (I wasn’t the 1).
 

I think we’re going to have some really wide swings in judging when we get to the 10s for the same reason regarding the current guys who have only played a couple seasons. 

I mean I buy that but you have a bunch of people saying their judging is about how the players would fare in a game against each other. We must have a bunch of closet judges going by pure accolades (which is fine, but not what people have said out loud).

And even with that, the team has more all-NBA SG slots (1) than almost every other team in the 90s lol

 

[Zegras11]

I mean I buy that but you have a bunch of people saying their judging is about how the players would fare in a game against each other. We must have a bunch of closet judges going by pure accolades (which is fine, but not what people have said out loud).

And even with that, the team has more all-NBA SG slots (1) than almost every other team in the 90s lol

I didn't have a problem with Petro. Loved the guy.   I had problems with McMillan,  Davis, and Campbell when comparing those guys to the other teams.  

A lot of my game playing was pretty even with the teams until I got to the C position.  

 

[wikkidpissah]

I mean I buy that but you have a bunch of people saying their judging is about how the players would fare in a game against each other. We must have a bunch of closet judges going by pure accolades (which is fine, but not what people have said out loud).

And even with that, the team has more all-NBA SG slots (1) than almost every other team in the 90s lol

i been thru this in several sports/culture drafts on FFA and it's why i dont do them anymore unless the subject is highly compelling. consensus and "like" thinking has become pervasive and courted quantitative over qualitative judgement. when life was a struggle to make things better, we argued with the gods. once things were better, we argued with each other, with the belief that, as God's children, our baselines are somehow equal. we're simply not, something which becomes painfully obvious in the public forum.

most of my life, i could not figure out why people who told me repeatedly how much smarter i was than they felt themselves on equal standing with me on any subject they cared about. media figured that out and democratized logic so that all truth appeared to confirm a damn good reason each and every one of us is here. consensus is doing's "God"'s work so we serve consensus. and the only good reason for exercises like this is how it occasionally exhorts snippets of originality out of the vox populi, not the actual result.

 

[Yo Mama]

I mean I buy that but you have a bunch of people saying their judging is about how the players would fare in a game against each other. We must have a bunch of closet judges going by pure accolades (which is fine, but not what people have said out loud).

And even with that, the team has more all-NBA SG slots (1) than almost every other team in the 90s lol

I think the benefit of the consensus judging is that it takes into account different viewpoints (who had the best decade/career versus who could beat who on the court, etc). It also smooths out the outliers a bit. Imagine if there was only one judge per decade - you could have ended up with a ten if you had the right judge, or a one with the wrong judge. I like this way better. 

 

[Kev4029]

I mean I buy that but you have a bunch of people saying their judging is about how the players would fare in a game against each other. We must have a bunch of closet judges going by pure accolades (which is fine, but not what people have said out loud).

And even with that, the team has more all-NBA SG slots (1) than almost every other team in the 90s lol

I had you ranked higher than most, but that's kinda damning with faint praise. 

The reason your team wasn't well liked wasn't exclusively because of Petrovic (but having a guy that peaked as a zero time all-star and one time all-NBA 3rd team as the center of your team isn't a great start). The team build didn't make a ton of sense around him either - COMBINED you had 3 AS games, 2 All-Defense, and one All-NBA (that's one more AS game and All-NBA than Jayrod's clearly worst team). McMillan was a great defender but maybe the most scoring inept player chosen in the entire draft and was mostly a career 6th man, Finley was a fine SF but was more volume and consistency than anything, Dale Davis was a rebounding/defensive specialist, and Elden Campbell was a middle of the pack big that was just never very good. 

Taking the top 3 years from each dude - you still didn't have a 100% usage (that's kind of a big problem), the rebounding is fine, but not great (52% - gonna get beasted on the boards by anybody good), passing is fine, but not great, efficiency is about league average but with the lower usage, that would drop. And all of this is taking only into account the peak of these players, if you took a more wholistic career approach, it would be a lot worse. 

 

[Mister CIA]

1990s Rankings Details

16 - Modogg  - 16,16,16,16,16,16,16,16,16

15 - Mister CIA  - 11,13,13,14,14,14,15,15,15

14 - Trader Jake - 8,10,11,13,14,14,15,15,15

13 - Higgins  - 10,11,12,12,12,13,13,15,15

12 - Frosty  - 8,9,10,11,12,13,14,14,15

11 - Doug B  - 10,10,10,11,11,13,13,14,14

10 - Kev4029  - 9,10,11,11,11,12,12,12,12

9 - Wikkidpissah  - 4,5,7,8,8,8,9,9,13

8 - Scoobus  - 5,6,6,7,7,9,9,9,12

7 - Yo Mama  - 3,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,9

6 - Timschochet  - 1,3,4,5,7,7,8,8,9

5 - Gally - 1,2,2,4,5,6,7,8,10

4 - Ilov80s  - 3,3,4,4,4,5,5,7,8

3 - Instinctive  - 1,2,2,2,3,4,6,6,10

2 - EYLive  - 1,1,2,3,3,3,4,5,6

1 - Jayrod  - 1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,4

Alright!  Mediocrity here I come (overall judging).

I still regret not drafting Dale Ellis instead of Ceballos. Imagine:

1. Gary Payton
   
2. Rod Strickland
   
3. Dale Ellis
   
4. Horace Grant
   
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
   

 

[modogg]

!

ranking this decade gave me a headache. i eventually submitted my top 2 teams (neither of which had Mike on it, for a very specific reason) with evvybody else tied for third, but Me Mama threw it back in my face. but this team here woulda won me a LOT of bracket money and got me in the semis. it plays a pantload better than it looks. figure i'd give SOMEbody a good feeling about their 90s team that actually deserved it. @Ilov80s deserved more cred, too - just shows the fat lot y'all knew about hoops when you were twelve.

let's hear the very specific reason........

Sorry, i see above it is cited to DC as a center in this rankings. I can see the argument there, but i think the combo of him and LJ in the paint is going to create enough of a deterrent to hold up well enough. both can bounce out if needed too, so i was taking this team into playing in the NBA in this current time frame. there would/could be 3s bombing from all around the paint, and enough rebounding if needed. 

what i liked about this squad was that they could really do multiple offensive schemes and run them very, very well. 

I am wondering how i had all 16s across the board with this squad and bombed out so bad in the 60s and 70s. Should have maybe leaned into those decades better thinking with the hindsight

 

[modogg]

Thanks. I'm kind of floored right now to think anyone had my squad at the bottom. To me, shows a complete and total lack of understanding of the game of basketball. I think, true to my write-up, there are reasonable arguments for everywhere from 8th to 13th. To end up with an average at 14th is shocking. Might be the single most surprising result I've seen across all decades so far. 

i had you just below Yo Mama at 6th. Was tough to score, definitely had you at the top of the 2nsd lowest tier by far, but i think I had you weighed down because nothing was spectacular, and if that was the case going into the game with Campbell and Davis would just be little tough to match up with those super dominant C's like Robinson, Hakeem, Zo and even hold up against Dikembe.

And i actually thought Petro was a benefit for your team

 

[wikkidpissah]

let's hear the very specific reason........

Sorry, i see above it is cited to DC as a center in this rankings. I can see the argument there, but i think the combo of him and LJ in the paint is going to create enough of a deterrent to hold up well enough. both can bounce out if needed too, so i was taking this team into playing in the NBA in this current time frame. there would/could be 3s bombing from all around the paint, and enough rebounding if needed. 

what i liked about this squad was that they could really do multiple offensive schemes and run them very, very well. 

I am wondering how i had all 16s across the board with this squad and bombed out so bad in the 60s and 70s. Should have maybe leaned into those decades better thinking with the hindsight

since this has absolutely nothing to do with the Sixers, i will indulge an argument on this.

the position of power forward has been a fascination of mine since a foot+ growth spurt turned me from a terrible point guard into a 4 who started as a sophomore in little more than a year. whether it was a high-post/low-post thing those 50+ yrs ago, or being the pick machine or enforcer or clean-up man in the decades after or the position issues which developed among players completely out of my league dealing with compensation and/or respect for work powerfully or artfully performed, there have always been issues of PF being the lunchpail position. as i stated earlier, between Bob Petti and Karl Malone, it was the position of lesser talents, hoodlums & misplaced centers, not only not recognized as stars but encouraged away from trying to be one.

Derrick Coleman was a forward, one of the most powerful and talented forwards i ever saw. It just so happened that he was center-tall and center-strong, but those of us who followed the game closely then saw that, if properly handled, DC could be the first player in NBA history to avg 2 steals, 2 blocks & 2 treys per game (along w the 25/10 ####). that was tremendously exiting to anticipate.

but his coach was olskool and a disciplinarian and harshed every attempt of Coleman's to widen his territory (nm role) on the Nets. well, DC was one of them guys like Terrell Owens or Iverson, and his eventual and final response was to phone it in, ending what could have been an alltime career. so, you're taking an even farther step by putting DC at center - the opposite of where his skills lay, and where he only played late-career to get a check - adn, functionally, that is the fantasy-draft equivalent of leaving an ingredient off the plate on Chopped. he not only never woulda showed up to play, he'da blowed up your arena so he wouldnt have to and still get paid. so your excellent team only got 4 players. even MJ & Stockton cant overcome that.

 

[Kev4029]

Alright!  Mediocrity here I come (overall judging).

I still regret not drafting Dale Ellis instead of Ceballos. Imagine:

1. Gary Payton
   
2. Rod Strickland
   
3. Dale Ellis
   
4. Horace Grant
   
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
   

I was one of the guys that had you a little lower (one of the 13s), very much because Ceballos wasn't very good and Strickland was out of position (in the years available on BBRef, starting in 96-97, he was at PG 93% of the time - Payton was PG 85% of the time). 

 

[Mister CIA]

I was one of the guys that had you a little lower (one of the 13s), very much because Ceballos wasn't very good and Strickland was out of position (in the years available on BBRef, starting in 96-97, he was at PG 93% of the time - Payton was PG 85% of the time). 

Part of the fun was reimagining what players could do in different lineups.  Just like Houston did back in the 80s when they deployed the Twin Towers. I think Strickland complimenting Payton in the backcourt would have yielded huge mismatches againt opponents.  ... and besides, there is history of Strickland playing SG.

 

[Yo Mama]

i had you just below Yo Mama at 6th. Was tough to score, definitely had you at the top of the 2nsd lowest tier by far, but i think I had you weighed down because nothing was spectacular, and if that was the case going into the game with Campbell and Davis would just be little tough to match up with those super dominant C's like Robinson, Hakeem, Zo and even hold up against Dikembe.

And i actually thought Petro was a benefit for your team

You probably could have paired Jordan and Stockton with lower drafted guys like Kukoc (23rd), Thorpe (24th), and Seikaly (19th) and still been a top 3 team for sure (with probably some 16s in the voting still). Hindsight, of course. You’re set up well for the best in show ranking though, although Coleman might kill you against some of the all time bigs. 

 

[Yo Mama]

2000s Rosters and Timing

Writeups Monday

Rankings due by 4pm Pacific Tuesday

Modogg  - Deron Williams, Allen Iverson, Danny Granger, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Bosh

Timschochet  - Derek Fisher, Cuttino Mobley, Vince Carter, Lamar Odom, Yao Ming

Wikkidpissah  - Sebastian Telfair, Jonny Flynn, Adam Morrison, Darko Milicic, Greg Oden

Jayrod  - Andre Miller, Tayshaun Prince, Paul Pierce, Carlos Boozer, Brad Miller

Ilov80s  - Kirk Hinrich, Raja Bell, Jerry Stackhouse, Kenyon Martin, Mehmet Okur

Frosty  - Jason Williams, Rip Hamilton, Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, PJ Brown

EYLive  - Stephon Marbury, Kobe Bryant, Shawn Marion, Andrei Kirilenko, Elton Brand

Instinctive  - Chauncey Billups, Tracy McGrady, Shane Battier, Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler

Trader Jake - Mike Bibby, Brandon Roy, Jalen Rose, Chris Webber, Amar'e Stoudemire

Gally - Tony Parker, Jason Terry, Peja Stojakovic, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard

Mister CIA  - Steve Francis, Manu Ginobili, Jamal Mashburn, Robert Horry, Jermaine O'Neal

Doug B  - Sam Cassell, Michael Redd, Gerald Wallace, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Marcus Camby

Higgins  - Larry Hughes, Corey Maggette, Richard Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Theo Ratliff

Scoobus  - Jason Kidd, Ray Allen, Bruce Bowen, Kevin Garnett, Shaquille O'Neal

Kev4029  - Steve Nash, Gilbert Arenas, Metta World Peace, Rashard Lewis, Andrew Bogut

Yo Mama  - Baron Davis, Jason RIchardson, Stephen Jackson, David West, Pau Gasol

Happy Easter everyone!

 

[Frostillicus]

Man Scoobus sucks

 

[modogg]

You probably could have paired Jordan and Stockton with lower drafted guys like Kukoc (23rd), Thorpe (24th), and Seikaly (19th) and still been a top 3 team for sure (with probably some 16s in the voting still). Hindsight, of course. You’re set up well for the best in show ranking though, although Coleman might kill you against some of the all time bigs. 

yeah, but that is the only real weakness in that best of show team (i think). perimeter defense is pretty high too with all of the all-defense guys, so will be nice if i can pull a rabbit out of a hat and sell those guys as top. 

I am pretty sure i would draft a ton better at this point right now too, like you mention above. Did go a little too heavy on the guards to begin with, but still love A.I. as my 6th man, not sure there will be a better guy in the pantheon teams to come off the bench and can put up 30 or so points no matter the defense

 

[modogg]

since this has absolutely nothing to do with the Sixers, i will indulge an argument on this.

the position of power forward has been a fascination of mine since a foot+ growth spurt turned me from a terrible point guard into a 4 who started as a sophomore in little more than a year. whether it was a high-post/low-post thing those 50+ yrs ago, or being the pick machine or enforcer or clean-up man in the decades after or the position issues which developed among players completely out of my league dealing with compensation and/or respect for work powerfully or artfully performed, there have always been issues of PF being the lunchpail position. as i stated earlier, between Bob Petti and Karl Malone, it was the position of lesser talents, hoodlums & misplaced centers, not only not recognized as stars but encouraged away from trying to be one.

Derrick Coleman was a forward, one of the most powerful and talented forwards i ever saw. It just so happened that he was center-tall and center-strong, but those of us who followed the game closely then saw that, if properly handled, DC could be the first player in NBA history to avg 2 steals, 2 blocks & 2 treys per game (along w the 25/10 ####). that was tremendously exiting to anticipate.

but his coach was olskool and a disciplinarian and harshed every attempt of Coleman's to widen his territory (nm role) on the Nets. well, DC was one of them guys like Terrell Owens or Iverson, and his eventual and final response was to phone it in, ending what could have been an alltime career. so, you're taking an even farther step by putting DC at center - the opposite of where his skills lay, and where he only played late-career to get a check - adn, functionally, that is the fantasy-draft equivalent of leaving an ingredient off the plate on Chopped. he not only never woulda showed up to play, he'da blowed up your arena so he wouldnt have to and still get paid. so your excellent team only got 4 players. even MJ & Stockton cant overcome that.

couldn't agree with you more here buddy  .

And it is funny you mention the above, i have been contemplating DC on my pantheon team as my PF since i read a few articles about how they felt the same way you do above (his ceiling was super high, just never got to his true potential)

 

[Mister CIA]

Mister CIA  - Steve Francis, Manu Ginobili, Jamal Mashburn, Robert Horry, Jermaine O'Neal

 

[Jayrod]

1990s Rankings

VANCOUVER GRIZZLIES DIVISION

The team in this tier wishes he could relocate to another tier, but he is just that bad he can’t escape the bottom.

16th place - 1 point

Jayrod  - Kenny Smith, Steve Smith, Derrick McKey, Christian Laettner, Hot Rod Williams

Average Score: 1.89   Best: 4   Worst: 1

OH COME ON!!!

 

[modogg]

i'll throw up my 2000s now to let people discuss bits and pieces of it. As for ranking, i still am saddenned with my 60s and 70s squads, hoping this team can land high up to balance some of those. Bit of cut and paste below from some good articles, so little lengthy (apologies). Let this sink in...:

2000s

Deron Williams - the Utah years  - 00s, PG

I think the only PG in the 00’s who would be considered better would probably be Chris Paul

-Crazy to think that D-Will and Carlos Boozer brought the Jazz to the WCF. Times have definitely changed, but those guys used to rock the #### out the pick and roll. Good times. He averaged a few steals and over 10 assists/game 5 of the 6 years in Utah. i remember when he went to the Nets and it was made out to be one of the biggest moves in it. 

gives me a filthy backcourt with him and AI. Deron also had upper 30s for good part of his career from 3

2 articles if want to read more because i know these can get long. Dude was legit top guy in his time:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/387967-deron-williams-is-flar-out-the-best-point-guard-on-earth

https://netswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/02/snapshot-a-look-back-at-deron-williams-the-savvy-playmaker/

SG Allen Iverson -  easily a top 5-6 player in the 2000's. 

   - basically this is a guy barely 6 feet tall with little support on his team for majority of his career and faced double or even triple teams nightly throughout the 2000s

  - Smallest guy on the court, yet he is top 6 all time in points per game. Behind guys much bigger, who had a lot of help around them. Only thing A.I. wouldn't bring to this team is rebounds, and some blocks. He owns steals and points, and his assist would have been much higher if the Sixers gave him anybody to actually pass too. CHeck his numbers late in his career when he went to Denver, way past his prime when his body was shot. 

few spots ahead of Stockton on all time list of steals per game at 2.2. All time steals are Stockton #1 overall, Jordan #3, and now we have A.I. who may have been 15th overall, but led the league in steals for 3 or 4 years in the 2000s. That back court would be just insane. ALso think it can't be under-stated how little support he had. Give him Shaq like Lakers were able to get and Iverson would be seen as better than Kobe by a wide margin. Most amazing thing with how many points this little guy got was that he was also super efficient. Not at all Hero ball like most these last 20 years, and i unfortunately didn't grab the actual stats for this. 

I could keep going, but everybody knows who A.I. link is. Following article explains how A.I. is easily in top 20 of all time NBA, little bit of it below:  https://bleacherreport.com/articles/376149-is-allen-iverson-one-of-the-20-greatest-nba-players-ever}#:~:text=He also averaged 30 ppg,assists and 1%2C983 career steals.&text=Statistically Allen Iverson is the best player since Michael Jordan.  

He was the 1996 Rookie of The Year, an 11-time NBA All-Star, two-time NBA All-Star game MVP, three-time steals champion, seven-time All-NBA selection (despite being on bad teams), four-time NBA Scoring champion (only three other players have done that), and the 2001 NBA MVP (one of the greatest individual seasons in NBA history). As far as accomplishments and awards go, Allen Iverson did it all but what was really impressive was his stats. Iverson averaged an amazing 27 ppg (sixth all-time)for his career along with 6.2 assists and 2.2 spg. He also averaged 30 ppg for his career in the playoffs (second to Michael Jordan). In just 914 career games he played an impressive 37,584 minutes and scored an amazing 24,368 career points he also had 5,624 career assists and 1,983 career steals. 4 time he averaged at least 30 ppg and 10 out of his 13 and a half years in the NBA he averaged at least 26 ppg.

There are not 20 players in the history of the NBA that have accomplished all the things he has been able to accomplish in his career.

SF  Danny Granger 

It's funny looking at his stats, he is the kind of guy who fell off  cliff one his knees started to plague him. Think i saw somewhere he played 76 games over the course of 4 years. No good way to show his stats, but they are eye-popping when you see the comparison to his years in the 00s to when he got into the 10s. so i def. want the 00s Granger:

From an article about his 08-09 year:

You could make a strong argument that Granger's 2008-09 season was the greatest individual offensive season in Pacers  franchise history. He became the only Pacers player and just the 12th in NBA history to average over 25 points per game while also shooting over 40 percent from 3-point range (four players have since joined that club: Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Stephen Curry). It was a symbolic start to what would ultimately be a historic season for Granger. He finished the year fifth in the NBA in scoring (25.8 points per game) while also amassing 5.1 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.0 steals, and 1.4 blocks per contest. Granger carried a heavy offensive load with remarkable efficiency, posting a .447 field-goal percentage, .404 3-point percentage, and .878 free throw percentage.

PF   'Sheed Wallace - i could of swore he played more in the 90's, but looks like he is my guy for the 00's. Simon Gratz High, born and raised in Philly. Enough said. 

This article explains some of it better than i can http://paceandspacehoops.com/rasheed-wallace-was-he-any-good/#:~:text=He ranks%2C as of this,and 58th in career VORP. . Here is an excerpt:

He ranks, as of this writing (through games of March 11, 2020), 98th in career field goal makes, 92nd in 3-pointers, 88th in rebounds, 39th in blocks (and 90th in blocks per game), 62nd in lowest turnover percentage, 31st in Defensive Win Shares, 73rd in total Win Shares, and 58th in career VORP.

C   Chris Bosh 

Players Stats: 19.2 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.8 SPG, 1.0 BPG

Honors: 11x All-Star, 1x All-NBA Team Selection

My toughest call with this guy was whether to put him in 2000s or 2010s, but leaned 2000s becaue his pre-Heat years showed more what a player he really was. His Heat career showed what a great teammate he could be, and how he can do everything on the floor when asked. Guy also knows his place on a championship team. a quality team can't have 5 guys like Harden or AI, so grabbing a guy who had serviceable defense, but should be much better if he makes my pantheon team because he will have Embiid in the low post so he can play little more around the perimeter. ALmost every single list i was looking around at had him higher then the 3 other guys i was thinking about, so i will defer to the experts with me missing out on Ben Wallace:

Chris Bosh has two rings as the third option of a Miami Heat superteam led by LeBron James, and he also had a great career with the Toronto Raptors as the number one option. While he would be the third option and take two rings any day, Bosh averaged his career-best 24.0 PPG and 10.8 RPG in his final season with the Raptors, making it clear that he had sensational talent and is a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Before joining LeBron James and Dwyane Wade on the Miami Heat, Bosh was one of the top players at his position for the Toronto Raptors. The eleven-time All-Star 19.5 points and 8.5 rebounds in his career in addition to two championships with Miami. His selflessness may have resulted in lesser individual stats. However, Bosh’s selflessness allowed him to compete for championships at the end of his career, while still being an All-Star caliber player.

HIs 3 point shot was under-rated too, even being invited to the 3 point contest later in his career

 his final two seasons he shot north of 35 percent from deep. In the first half of his career with the Raptors, where he was the star of the show in Toronto, Bosh was facing up opponents from 18 feet out, hitting them with a jab step then dribble into a stepback jumper. 

He had the shot and lift of an athletic guard, in the body of a 6-11 center who could still hammer it home and finish through contact at the rim. When he got to Miami, though, he made sacrifices for the greater good of the team to help win two championships, but even with fewer touches, he was still nailing over 50 percent of his mid-range shots. It wasn't until his final two years with the Heat, after LeBron James returned to Cleveland, that Bosh really started to lean into taking more 3s. 

In his final year in the NBA, he was attempting a career-high 4.2 shots from beyond the arc a game, and hitting them at a 36.5 percent clip. That earned him the opportunity to compete in the Three-Point Contest at All-Star Weekend during the 2015-16 season,

 

[timschochet]

Sorry I haven’t been around but I just sent rankings for 00 and 10 to @Yo Mama

 

[Frostillicus]

Frosty Team 2000s:

PG: Jason "White Chocolate" Williams: 12.1ppg, 2.8rpg, 7.0apg, 1.5spg. 

SG: Richard "Rip" Hamilton: 3x All-Star. 1x CHAMP. 18.8ppg, 3.4rpg, 3.7apg. 

SF: Antoine "Employee Number 8" Walker: 2x All-Star. 1x CHAMP. 21.7ppg, 8.9rpg, 4.2apg, 1.6spg. 

PF: Antawn Jamison: 2x All-Star. 20.4ppg, 5.6rpg, 1.8apg, 1.1spg. 

C : PJ Brown: 3x All-Defense. 1x CHAMP. 9.1ppg, 7.2rpg, 1.3bpg

The one thing I can guarantee is that you will like watching this team. Williams, Walker, and Jamison all exceled in up-tempo environments, and Hamilton would do just fine given his gifts as a scorer. In fact, Hamilton, Walker, and Jamison were all outstanding scorers throughout their careers with 19 combined seasons as 20 point per game scorers. 

When you have 3 guys who can score like these 3, you need two things: a guy who can get them the ball, and a tough guy who can back them up in the paint. Enter Williams and Brown. This team might not have the star power and name recognition of some others, but this is a TEAM.

 

[Instinctive]

These last two gonna be real fun. Thanks to those above for thoughts. At the risk of offending others, nice to know the folks I most look to learning from all gave my upper 50% of the ranks I got (e.g., not the 1s and 2s which were pretty ridiculous).

00s has maybe the most obvious and clear decade team, and I think the favorite for best in show. Only team I see with both the best frontcourt and best backcourt in its decade.

I'm tinkering now, but think I see a few contenders for #2:

@Instinctive, @EYLive, @Gally, @modogg are all fearsome and somewhat odd teams. Duncan/Dwight is a monster but the backcourt is a sieve (understatement). EY and I have very similar "ok try to score, and my one transcendent buckets guy will take 40 shots" type squads, modogg's got either DWill or AI out of position to get destroyed by the SGs of the era...Jake's got a great "guys who should have been better than they were" team too.

 

[Kev4029]

These last two gonna be real fun. Thanks to those above for thoughts. At the risk of offending others, nice to know the folks I most look to learning from all gave my upper 50% of the ranks I got (e.g., not the 1s and 2s which were pretty ridiculous).

00s has maybe the most obvious and clear decade team, and I think the favorite for best in show. Only team I see with both the best frontcourt and best backcourt in its decade.

I'm tinkering now, but think I see a few contenders for #2:

@Instinctive, @EYLive, @Gally, @modogg are all fearsome and somewhat odd teams. Duncan/Dwight is a monster but the backcourt is a sieve (understatement). EY and I have very similar "ok try to score, and my one transcendent buckets guy will take 40 shots" type squads, modogg's got either DWill or AI out of position to get destroyed by the SGs of the era...Jake's got a great "guys who should have been better than they were" team too.

I'm curious how you are going to address your... offensively challenged front court here. 

 

[scoobus]

These last two gonna be real fun. Thanks to those above for thoughts. At the risk of offending others, nice to know the folks I most look to learning from all gave my upper 50% of the ranks I got (e.g., not the 1s and 2s which were pretty ridiculous).

00s has maybe the most obvious and clear decade team, and I think the favorite for best in show. Only team I see with both the best frontcourt and best backcourt in its decade.

I'm tinkering now, but think I see a few contenders for #2:

@Instinctive, @EYLive, @Gally, @modogg are all fearsome and somewhat odd teams. Duncan/Dwight is a monster but the backcourt is a sieve (understatement). EY and I have very similar "ok try to score, and my one transcendent buckets guy will take 40 shots" type squads, modogg's got either DWill or AI out of position to get destroyed by the SGs of the era...Jake's got a great "guys who should have been better than they were" team too.

I didn't give you a 1 or 2 so I'm not offended, phew!

Agree these last 2 decades are gunna be the most fun, at least for me. I can now break down teams where I've actually watched every single player extensively.  Should be fun.

 

[scoobus]

2000s

Deron Williams - the Utah years  - 00s, PG

I think the only PG in the 00’s who would be considered better would probably be Chris Paul

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Kidd? Nash?

I think a few other could have a case too.

 

[Zegras11]

16 pts - Modogg  - John Stockton, Michael Jordan, Dan Majerle, Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman (16)

15 pts - Mister CIA  - Gary Payton, Rod Strickland, Cedric Ceballos, Horace Grant, Hakeem Olajuwon (14)

14 pts - Trader Jake - Mark Price, Hersey Hawkins, Grant Hill, Charles Barkley, Brad Daugherty (15)

13 pts - Higgins  - Tim Hardaway, Reggie Miller, Eddie Jones, Clifford Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo (10)

12 pts - Frosty  - Terry Porter, Doug Christie, Glen Rice, Shawn Kemp, Alonzo Mourning (11)

11 pts - Doug B  - Micheal Williams, Mitch Richmond, Detlef Schrempf, Antonio McDyess, David Robinson (13)

10 pts - Kev4029  - Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek, Anthony Mason, Karl Malone, Rik Smits (12)

9 pts - Wikkidpissah  - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Lewis, Danny Manning, Arvydas Sabonis (8)

8 pts - Scoobus  - Mookie Blaylock, John Starks, Chris Mullin, Vin Baker, Kevin Willis (6)

7 pts - Yo Mama  - Damon Stoudamire, Latrell Sprewell, Glenn Robinson, Otis Thorpe, Vlade Divac (9)

6 pts - Timschochet  - Nick Van Exel, Penny Hardaway, Bryon Russell, Dennis Rodman, Shawn Bradley (4)

5 pts - Gally - Terrell Brandon, Isaiah Rider, Scottie Pippen, Tom Gugliotta, Dino Radja (7)

4 pts - Ilov80s  - Kenny Anderson, Joe Dumars, Sean Elliott, Juwan Howard, Rony Seikaly (5)

3 pts - Instinctive  - Nate McMillan, Drazen Petrovic, Michael Finley, Dale Davis, Elden Campbell (2)

2 pts - EYLive  - Mark Jackson, Alan Houston, Toni Kukoc, Charles Oakley, Jayson Williams (1)

1 pts - Jayrod  - Kenny Smith, Steve Smith, Derrick McKey, Christian Laettner, Hot Rod Williams (3)

Wasn't too far off this round on any pick.   2-3 of my 80's picks were off by 6 or 7.

 

[Instinctive]

I'm curious how you are going to address your... offensively challenged front court here. 

I don't think it's actually that challenged, especially for the era. The game doesn't really begin to open up until around 2008, Battier's a really good shooter, and Chandler was an awesome roll man with vertical spacing. Wallace is the toughest guy to work around, but this team has more offense than the actual Pistons did overall. Will be more interesting to see how it's judged. Like, do people remember that games in the actual NBA finals had series where both teams went over 90 only once in 2004? Again in 2005? Zero times in 2003? That in 2007 each team only cracked 90 once in four games?

Do people look at McGrady and see someone who could easily have played like Harden did for the 10s if offensive thinking was more advanced? Do people remember the rules on defense significantly restricted movement and interior defense was still paramount?

 

[Kev4029]

I don't think it's actually that challenged, especially for the era. The game doesn't really begin to open up until around 2008, Battier's a really good shooter, and Chandler was an awesome roll man with vertical spacing. Wallace is the toughest guy to work around, but this team has more offense than the actual Pistons did overall. Will be more interesting to see how it's judged. Like, do people remember that games in the actual NBA finals had series where both teams went over 90 only once in 2004? Again in 2005? Zero times in 2003? That in 2007 each team only cracked 90 once in four games?

Do people look at McGrady and see someone who could easily have played like Harden did for the 10s if offensive thinking was more advanced? Do people remember the rules on defense significantly restricted movement and interior defense was still paramount?

Out of curiosity I looked at the team's career combined usage, it's at 88%. That is a big gap to make up. McGrady would need Westbrook usage from his MVP year to nearly close that gap, but it would all come from contested mid range jump shots. And I would guess that Chandler and Wallace would steal usage from each other because they get all their baskets from 0-3 feet.

And sure, Battier is a good shooter, but 97% of his made 3s for his career are assisted, over half of those are from the corner, and nearly half of his career shots (7 total shots a game) are 3s. 

I don't mean to pick on your team before voting, I just thought that the selection of the front court, especially pairing Wallace and Chandler together, was one of the more interesting roster builds of the draft.

 

[Instinctive]

Out of curiosity I looked at the team's career combined usage, it's at 88%. That is a big gap to make up. McGrady would need Westbrook usage from his MVP year to nearly close that gap, but it would all come from contested mid range jump shots. And I would guess that Chandler and Wallace would steal usage from each other because they get all their baskets from 0-3 feet.

And sure, Battier is a good shooter, but 97% of his made 3s for his career are assisted, over half of those are from the corner, and nearly half of his career shots (7 total shots a game) are 3s. 

I don't mean to pick on your team before voting, I just thought that the selection of the front court, especially pairing Wallace and Chandler together, was one of the more interesting roster builds of the draft.

No offense taken - I love this discussion and hope we do it for many teams. I’ll try to put together a more thoughtful response, but I think you’re trying to do more with usage than it’s meant for. And McGrady and Billups taking mid rangers with Wallace and Chandler on the glass is actually decent, especially if we’re holding other teams to 65 points a night. 
 

This team also RUNS. Like the outlet ability and fast break ability from everyone is to my memory quite high. Putting these guys into their new context with each other would necessarily change their usage (for instance how much lower is Battier’s because he played with LeBron Wade Bosh for a while?), and one way that’s true would be a change in their pace. Would be interesting to see data on it, but I suspect this team would be more at a Billups Denver pace than the Detroit one. 

 

[Instinctive]

Also, if we like usage problems, what’s the total for other teams? How many of them are at 112% or above (the same gap)? Why do we think it’s better to have to cut shots from guys who have been best with the ball rather than get a couple extra looks for guys who did a fantastic job fitting by in with efficiency throughout their careers?

 

[Kev4029]

Also, if we like usage problems, what’s the total for other teams? How many of them are at 112% or above (the same gap)? Why do we think it’s better to have to cut shots from guys who have been best with the ball rather than get a couple extra looks for guys who did a fantastic job fitting by in with efficiency throughout their careers?

IRL, scaling up would be more of a practical problem where you are stretching skill sets beyond their capacity, whereas scaling down is more an issue of personalities. 

I also think scaling down 12% in usage across 5 players is a simpler problem to solve (you see it in the olympics every 4 years) as opposed to scaling up 12% (this is also demonstrable to a point when players jump ship for a bigger role and their efficiency takes a huge hit).

IMO, the sweet spot for usage is probabaly in the 100-110 range where people aren't scaling up but also not forced to scale down much and can stay in the role where they are most comfortable. If you loaded up on too much usage you are going to turn players that are great into catch and shoot jump shooters which has quickly diminishing returns. For the overly trigger happy teams, I think that should be addressed.

 

[Instinctive]

I’m driving with my wife from DFW to CHI today (so I can’t) but would be cool to see the total usage for all 16. Maybe some other stuff like RB%, AST%, etc 

 

[Mister CIA]

I’m driving with my wife from DFW to CHI today

That is a hardcore roadtrip.

 

[trader jake]

Trader Jake – 2000’s

Like Michael Jordan preventing many great players from winning titles during his career, this decade was dominated by Shaq/Kobe and Duncan keeping the rings for themselves.  This collection of talent knows that pain first-hand.  However, together this group has elite athletes inside, multiple creators and 3-point shooters outside, and as much positional versatility and ability to switch on defense as any team in any decade and should be able to do some damage.  Just please keep Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan away.

PG Mike Bibby – Modern point guard that shot 38% from deep in his NBA career.  Noted clutch performer that hit big shots in a NCAA Championship game win as well as game winners in Conference Finals (2002 w/SAC & 2011 w/MIA).  Selected #2 overall by Vancouver before being traded to Sacramento to run the great Kings teams of the 00s.
SG Brandon Roy – B-Roy’s career was cut short after six seasons due to a knee condition.  Six seasons was enough to win Rookie of the Year, followed by an All-Star spot, and then an All-NBA nod (at this point of his career he already had 24 shots that had tied or won the game with 35 seconds or less remaining).  Kobe Bryant called Roy the hardest player to guard in the West, claiming that he had "no weaknesses in his game."
SF Jalen Rose – Jalen was a versatile, left-handed playmaker with a smooth offensive game that could score and distribute from outside or down low.  He was part of Michigan’s legendary “Fab Five” and reached his NBA peak once Larry Bird moved him to the SF and he averaged 20.5/5reb/6ast as the Pacers made three consecutive Eastern Conference finals and the Finals.
PF Chris Webber – The #1 overall pick (1st Sophomore since Magic) was part of Michigan’s legendary “Fab Five and was so highly ranked, the Warriors traded away the #3 pick and three future 1st rounders to land the all-around game of C-Webb.  Was he a big with positional diversity to match up with any opponent inside?  Was he a versatile playmaking wing?  The answer to both was yes.  He was also skilled enough to win a rebounding title while averaging over 4 assists and 3 stocks over his 15-year career.  He also won the Rookie of the Year award, made 5 All-Star appearances, and 5 All-NBA awards.  
C Amar'e Stoudemire – The high-flying big for Phoenix was the finisher for those almost-championship Suns.  His athleticism and versatility inside was a wonder to watch and when he wasn’t blocking shots, grabbing offensive rebounds, or going up for highlight dunks he was working his way to the foul line – leading in free throws mid-decade. Only a knee injury in the mid 2000’s kept him from putting up even better numbers, but he had already made 6 All-Star games and 5 All-NBA honors.

 

[Instinctive]

That is a hardcore roadtrip.

6th time going one way or the other. Only one more time back and we’ll finally be done with it. 

 

[higgins]

higgins' 2000's squad

I didn't put too much focus on this decade but, based upon the draft capital I used, I'm happy with the way things turned out from a "team"-perspective.

PG -- Larry Hughes

SG --  Corey Maggette

SF -- Richard Jefferson

PF -- Zach Randolph

C -- Theo Ratliff

General Team makeup

The inside will be ably manned by Zach Randolph (offense-wise) and Theo Ratliff (defense-wise). The frontcourt will be surrounded by 3 "modular" backcourt players, "Modular" referring to each of them being a versatile 6'5" -to- 6'7" plus athlete.

Offense

Zach is underrated in that, once he got established, he (from 2003-2011) averaged 20 pts/gm & 10.4 rebs/gm -- he can be an offensive focal point. Each of the 3 backcourt players have at various point(s) in the decade scored ~ 20 pts/gm so they will be productive without one specific individual being keyed in upon by a defense out of necessity.

Defense

Larry Hughes has a 1st team all league defense honor where he was #1 in the league in a couple defensive (steal-related) categories. Theo Ratliff had 2 consecutive years in the league where he was #1 in blocks. As mentioned, the squad is made up of plus-athletes.

Instead of trying to "pretty things up" I'll lay out the positives and negatives as I see them.

Negatives

    - Lack of star power

    - Larry Hughes, while having played the position, is not necessarily a proven prototypical point.

Positives

    - Even without star power each player contributes their own, whether offensively or defensively -- these are all B+ players without a hole on the squad.

    - Defense & the 3 "modular" backcourt players will make this a difficult squad to score against.