Alt-Right - hate group fascists or serious political movement (1 Viewer)

[rojbk]

Posted this in the other thread

The problem I have with guys like Richard Spencer and David DUke being called literal Nazis is that you take away just how horrible Nazis were to jewish people in WW2. In my view it is disrespectful to everyone that suffered.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Posted this in the other thread

As Henry pointed out he's an actual Nazi. Also that's not mutually exclusive from white supremacist. All Nazis are white supremacists.

 

[rojbk]

As Henry pointed out he's an actual Nazi. Also that's not mutually exclusive from white supremacist. All Nazis are white supremacists.

Can we not marginalize what the Nazi's did in ww2 by comparing it to a guy playing dress up and holding a sign? That is all im saying.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Can we not marginalize what the Nazi's did in ww2 by comparing it to a guy playing dress up and holding a sign? That is all im saying.

That's not marginalization - that's validation there are people today who love that and would do that if they could.

 

[roadkill1292]

Thought of putting this in the Free Speech thread because it took a federal judge to force Auburn to allow Richard Spencer to speak there a couple of days ago. But I was more interested in the context of his speech, during which he advocated for Auburn to ban football because of the dangerous black players it introduced into the student body.

About 400 people attended Mr. Spencer’s talk. They were a mix of white, male supporters, some of whom had traveled from out of town, and students objecting to his message. He was cheered and booed throughout the talk, which covered familiar alt-right themes, with the loudest jeers coming when described the university’s black football players as perpetrating the “sexual abuse of white women on campus,” The Journal-Constitution reported.

Another report I read said that there were actually some cheers mixed in with the jeers when he said that black athletes were a threat to the culture at Auburn that white students deserved to preserve. Patrick Hruby of Vice Sports has written about polls showing that white college football fans have far different views than black fans when it comes to the expansion of student athletes' rights.

 

[Riversco]

When i talk to republicans about politics, usually the first thing out of the mouths is some joke insinuating that democrats are racist against white people.  And they keep circling back to that theme in any discussion.  

 

[roadkill1292]

When i talk to republicans about politics, usually the first thing out of the mouths is some joke insinuating that democrats are racist against white people.  And they keep circling back to that theme in any discussion.  

Idiocy like that is why they shouldn't be in control of anything larger than a Thomas The Train set.

 

[Riversco]

Thing ive heard i can remember:

"well as soon as obama kills all us white people things will be great"

"my kid will probably be the last white person left in this country thanks to immigration"

 

[Riversco]

Idiocy like that is why they shouldn't be in control of anything larger than a Thomas The Train set.

I think this is the typical response from the left and its extremely ineffective.  In fact, this response probably encourages it. 

 

[Riversco]

I dont think the democrats are in any way equipped to handle the political shift that has occured so they just ignore it. 

 

[roadkill1292]

I think this is the typical response from the left and its extremely ineffective.  In fact, this response probably encourages it. 

Short term, maybe. But the thought pattern by those kinds of republicans is inherently flawed and cannot last. Generations to follow will see the weakness of it and it will eventually die.

 

[GROOT]

When i talk to republicans about politics, usually the first thing out of the mouths is some joke insinuating that democrats are racist against white people.  And they keep circling back to that theme in any discussion.  

Well if one is constantly called racist in a debate what's a person to think?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Thought of putting this in the Free Speech thread because it took a federal judge to force Auburn to allow Richard Spencer to speak there a couple of days ago. But I was more interested in the context of his speech, during which he advocated for Auburn to ban football because of the dangerous black players it introduced into the student body.

Another report I read said that there were actually some cheers mixed in with the jeers when he said that black athletes were a threat to the culture at Auburn that white students deserved to preserve. ...

Richard Spencer is a white supremacist.

However, assuming the cheerers weren't white supremacists themselves pulled in by Spencer, probably a lot of the people there, maybe nearly all, almost certainly were not. The problem is when white supremacists with agendas get people to move from conservativism to nationalism to white nationalism to white supremacism. The hook is to get people to agree to a basic fact like Player X (who is black) committed a crime, then Player Y, then Player Z. Then 'see how the press won't talk about it' or 'the programs make too much money to care.' [>nodding heads]. Then it's 'they don't care about you [who are white].' It's a progression.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

When i talk to republicans about politics, usually the first thing out of the mouths is some joke insinuating that democrats are racist against white people.  And they keep circling back to that theme in any discussion.  

I never hear this when talking to Republicans.

Thing ive heard i can remember:

"well as soon as obama kills all us white people things will be great"

"my kid will probably be the last white person left in this country thanks to immigration"

I never hear this either. I've talked to white nationalists and white supremacists and I've heard them say that, but they typically hate the Republican party and don't identify as such.

I live in Louisiana. Where do you live, again?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I dont think the democrats are in any way equipped to handle the political shift that has occured so they just ignore it. 

You have a very subtle way of cheering for things you suggest you're against but are not.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Well if one is constantly called racist in a debate what's a person to think?

You should think that one through. Rivers asked you to make a connection that you did not voluntarily come here to make.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Watch gun sales.  I think when democrats make their move to impeach trump, gun sales will spike and the unrest will begin shortly thereafter

get help, soon.

 

[GROOT]

You should think that one through. Rivers asked you to make a connection that you did not voluntarily come here to make.

Just over and over and over. I'm a Nazi...but wait i'm jewish. It's like debating ISIS. Brainwashed thinking can't be debated. That's the reason it's a Dem circlejerk on most threads these days.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Just over and over and over. I'm a Nazi...but wait i'm jewish. It's like debating ISIS. Brainwashed thinking can't be debated. That's the reason it's a Dem circlejerk on most threads these days.

That's not what happened above. He said '[D]emocrats are racist against white people'. I doubt you believe that.

 

[GROOT]

That's not what happened above. He said '[D]emocrats are racist against white people'. I doubt you believe that.

Of course not. I don't believe in lumping segments in a group and making judgement. I'm not seeing the same at Trump protests. I'm seeing the opposite.

 

[fatness]

Neo-Nazi website unleashed Internet trolls against a Jewish woman, lawsuit says

The center filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday in a case involving white nationalist Richard Spencer and his family, alleging that Andrew Anglin, the founder and publisher of the neo-Nazi website Daily Stormer, let loose an online “terror campaign” against the woman and her family.

The suit alleges that Anglin published a string of articles urging his “horde” of anonymous followers to inflict a “troll storm” on Tanya Gersh and her family, invading her privacy, intentionally inflicting emotional distress and violating the Montana Anti-Intimidation Act.

Gersh, her husband and 12-year-old son received a barrage of more than 700 “threatening” anti-Semitic and homophobic emails, phone calls, texts, social media comments, letters, postcards and Christmas cards, the lawsuit alleges.

“I once answered the phone and all I heard were gunshots,” Gersh told reporters Tuesday in a telephone news conference.

“Thanks for demonstrating why your race needs to be collectively ovened,” one email read.

On Dec. 16, Anglin published a post on Daily Stormer, providing his followers with phone numbers, email addresses and links to social media profiles for Gersh and her immediate family members, friends and colleagues. “Let’s Hit Em Up,” he urged.

Even though there has been an uptick in online trolling in the last decade, lawsuits are rare, said Danielle Citron, a law professor at the University of Maryland and author of the book “Hate Crimes in Cyberspace.”

“You mostly see people just pray it goes away,” she said. “You just don’t see a lot of cases like this because they’re expensive, and it’s easier to hide.”

“What this lawsuit is aiming to do is send the message that there are real consequences here,” Citron added. “If you’re going to target someone in ways that then lead to death threats, reputational-harming lies and you’re inspiring your troll army … there are consequences for this incredibly destructive, threatening, inciting-violence behavior. So often this alt-right movement is like, ‘There’s no stopping us. We have free speech on our side.’ Of course there are limits…. It’s not a free-for-all.”

 

[General Malaise]

The alt-right is celebrating the punch to the face of the woman at Berkeley by the ex-felon white supremacist Nathan Damigo.  They are celebrating him as a folk hero for belting a girl in the face.  Now they've doxxed her and revealed all her personal information, threatened her with rape and death threats, treated the punch as an act of comedy.  If this is what the alt-right represents, I find it thoroughly disgusting and wonder what happened in the lives of its members to get to a point where punching a girl in the face is defendable behavior to be lionized and ridiculed.  

 

[Riversco]

get help, soon.

The people that need help are the ones running to all the nazi websites.  The explosive growth of nazis is just death to everything.  I have no solutions. I think the fix was for democrats to shift to the right and co opt the message enuf to stop it like was done to perot.  Too late now and the dems are going left

 

[Riversco]

Dwmocrats just seem to be less saavy. They didnt make this error 25 years ago. And theres a huge price well all pay for it

 

[jonessed]

The alt-right is celebrating the punch to the face of the woman at Berkeley by the ex-felon white supremacist Nathan Damigo.  They are celebrating him as a folk hero for belting a girl in the face.  Now they've doxxed her and revealed all her personal information, threatened her with rape and death threats, treated the punch as an act of comedy.  If this is what the alt-right represents, I find it thoroughly disgusting and wonder what happened in the lives of its members to get to a point where punching a girl in the face is defendable behavior to be lionized and ridiculed.  

She showed up as a member of an anarchist group who were there to engage in violence.  Then when the violence started she actively ran into the fray.

Both of these groups suck.  I don't condone the actions of either group, but if you are going to be involved in a radical, violent group you better be prepared for radical, violent interactions.

 

[fatness]

She showed up as a member of an anarchist group who were there to engage in violence.  Then when the violence started she actively ran into the fray.

Both of these groups suck.  I don't condone the actions of either group, but if you are going to be involved in a radical, violent group you better be prepared for radical, violent interactions.

Did she do something violent that day?

 

[General Malaise]

She showed up as a member of an anarchist group who were there to engage in violence.  Then when the violence started she actively ran into the fray.

Both of these groups suck.  I don't condone the actions of either group, but if you are going to be involved in a radical, violent group you better be prepared for radical, violent interactions.

Well, I guess you and I are wired differently.  I think a man - a former military man - punching a 20 year old girl in the face is wrong, no matter what.  And what was he doing there that day, selling cookies?  Give me a break.  

 

[Boston]

She showed up as a member of an anarchist group who were there to engage in violence.  Then when the violence started she actively ran into the fray.

Both of these groups suck.  I don't condone the actions of either group, but if you are going to be involved in a radical, violent group you better be prepared for radical, violent interactions.

Why waste your time...the Nazi scum is part of the mainstream right and the anarchists have nothing to do with the left...that seems to be how it is going to be portrayed no matter what...

 

[General Malaise]

Why waste your time...the Nazi scum is part of the mainstream right and the anarchists have nothing to do with the left...that seems to be how it is going to be potrayed...

Guess we can identify which posters are okay with violence towards women.

 

[timschochet]

Why waste your time...the Nazi scum is part of the mainstream right and the anarchists have nothing to do with the left...that seems to be how it is going to be portrayed no matter what...

What's especially ironic about this post is that most of us really don't believe the Nazi scum has anything to do with the mainstream right- yet whenever the Nazi scum does something stupid or reprehensible, guys like you or jonessed find ways to defend them or at least point out that somebody else acted just as bad. 

 

[Boston]

Guess we can identify which posters are okay with violence towards women.

Where did I say that...please point it out...should be easy...I'm sure you were all up in arms when the Middlebury Professor was being assaulted as well...

 

[Boston]

What's especially ironic about this post is that most of us really don't believe the Nazi scum has anything to do with the mainstream right- yet whenever the Nazi scum does something stupid or reprehensible, guys like you or jonessed find ways to defend them or at least point out that somebody else acted just as bad. 

No that is a lie...I just find it reprehensible when nonsense like this because a team sport where either side pretends they are angels...there should be zero violence...again Tim...read carefully...there should be zero violence from anyone...whoever does it be it left or right or whatever else they are should feel the full force of the law...

 

[Boston]

What's especially ironic about this post is that most of us really don't believe the Nazi scum has anything to do with the mainstream right- yet whenever the Nazi scum does something stupid or reprehensible, guys like you or jonessed find ways to defend them or at least point out that somebody else acted just as bad. 

Please show where I defended it...

 

[General Malaise]

Where did I say that...please point it out...should be easy...I'm sure you were all up in arms when the Middlebury Professor was being assaulted as well...

You're doing a great job yourself, so don't need my help.  

 

[timschochet]

Please show where I defended it...

You didn't specifically which is why I wrote guys like you. You did however appear to sympathize with jonessed' post and later made the comment "where either side pretends they are angels" which is the sort of BS I was referring to in my post. 

 

[Boston]

You're doing a great job yourself, so don't need my help.  

No, really I do need your help...should be easy...please point out where I did that...

 

[Boston]

You didn't specifically which is why I wrote guys like you. You did however appear to sympathize with jonessed' post and later attend the comment "where either side pretends they are angels" which is the sort of BS I was referring to in my post. 

It is not BS...there are far too many people (left or right) who will defend scum actions if they feel it will taint "their side"...or will jump to conclusions as well...it is pretty f'n pathetic and there are thousands examples on both sides...

 

[General Malaise]

Boston treats the period button like Nathan Damigo treats a girl's face, constant punching....

 

[jonessed]

Well, I guess you and I are wired differently.  I think a man - a former military man - punching a 20 year old girl in the face is wrong, no matter what.  And what was he doing there that day, selling cookies?  Give me a break.  

It's wrong regardless of whether or not it's a woman.  It's certainly not something I would do.

I don't see her as a victim though.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

I hate that they associate alt-to whichever side.  Alt is adding varying amounts of psycho to the equation.  

whichever side you claim, add in violence, and I don't want/need your opinion anymore.

 

[jonessed]

What's especially ironic about this post is that most of us really don't believe the Nazi scum has anything to do with the mainstream right- yet whenever the Nazi scum does something stupid or reprehensible, guys like you or jonessed find ways to defend them or at least point out that somebody else acted just as bad. 

I explicitly stated I'm opposed to both of these groups and their tactics.  I'm not defending any actions outside of their right to speak publicly.

Must you always gravitate towards sweeping generalizations?  The world isn't nearly as black and white as you proclaim it to be.

These two groups are diametrically opposed and condone violence.  If you involve yourself in these confrontations you know what you are getting into.  There will be fighting and people will get hurt.  If you are going to join these groups and run into a melee you helped cause you aren't an innocent bystander.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

 Must you always gravitate towards sweeping generalizations?

he must

 

[General Malaise]

It's wrong regardless of whether or not it's a woman.  It's certainly not something I would do.

I don't see her as a victim though.

Guess this is where we disagree.  Surprised law enforcement hasn't arrested Nathan Damigo.  Maybe they agree with you.

 

[jonessed]

Guess this is where we disagree.  Surprised law enforcement hasn't arrested Nathan Damigo.  Maybe they agree with you.

Anyone engaging in the violence that can be identified should be arrested.

 

[General Malaise]

Anyone engaging in the violence that can be identified should be arrested.

We agree there.

 

[timschochet]

I explicitly stated I'm opposed to both of these groups and their tactics.  I'm not defending any actions outside of their right to speak publicly.

Must you always gravitate towards sweeping generalizations?  The world isn't nearly as black and white as you proclaim it to be.

These two groups are diametrically opposed and condone violence.  If you involve yourself in these confrontations you know what you are getting into.  There will be fighting and people will get hurt.  If you are going to join these groups and run into a melee you helped cause you aren't an innocent bystander.

 Dude, you're the one who jumps in every time the alt-right gets criticized with the need to insist that the other side is just as bad. You're the one who insists on saying that a woman who got punched in the face wasn't a victim. If I were you I'd spend less time worrying about my supposed sweeping generalizations and worry about your own need to find justifications for whatever a person does so long as he's in an way associated with conservatism. 

 

[MarvinTScamper]

http://imgur.com/gallery/h4uGxUp

 

[jonessed]

 Dude, you're the one who jumps in every time the alt-right gets criticized with the need to insist that the other side is just as bad. You're the one who insists on saying that a woman who got punched in the face wasn't a victim. If I were you I'd spend less time worrying about my supposed sweeping generalizations and worry about your own need to find justifications for whatever a person does so long as he's in an way associated with conservatism. 

You just did it again.

I wasn't even aware of antifa until recently.  How could I point to them being just as bad every time

I don't condone violent protest or counter-protest groups.  If you are there to promote and engage in violence you are part of the problem. I don't care if you are a hippie, a biker, a teacher, a construction worker, black or white, male or female, conservative or liberal.

 

[fatness]

Chobani sues Alex Jones, saying he falsely linked company to child rape, tuberculosis

The lawsuit, filed Monday in Idaho state court, says Jones’s Infowars website defamed Chobani and owner Hamdi Ulukaya in reports alleging the company’s practice of hiring refugees had brought crime and disease to the town of 45,000.

“Idaho Yogurt Maker Caught Importing Migrant Rapists,” read an April 11 tweet from Infowars highlighted in the complaint. The tweet linked to a video containing what Chobani said were false statements about the company. The complaint also cited an August 2016 article that suggested Chobani was responsible for a “500% increase in tuberculosis in Twin Falls.”

Chobani’s plant in Twin Falls is the largest yogurt-producing facility in the world. Ulukaya, the owner, is a Turkish immigrant known for his refugee advocacy. More than 300 refugees work at the Twin Falls plant and another facility in New York, according to the Idaho Statesman.

The company came into Jones’s crosshairs last summer, after a story about refugees in Twin Falls sexually assaulting a 5-year-old girl drew national attention. Several right-wing websites, including Infowars, seized on the news, inaccurately reporting that the girl was raped at knifepoint by a gang of Syrian men. Infowars, Breitbart News and other outlets sought to connect the incident to the refugees employed at the Chobani plant in town.

Authorities in Twin Falls said the girl was sexually assaulted, not raped, and that there was no knife involved in the attack. They also said the suspects, who have since pleaded guilty, were minors from Iraq and Sudan, as The Washington Post has reported.

As recently as mid-April, Infowars was still connecting Chobani’s refugee hiring practices to the crimes, according to the company’s lawsuit.

 

[fatness]

More than two months after his very public downfall over past comments he made that were seen as a defense of pedophilia, conservative provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos has slowly worked himself back into the public eye. Late last month, he announced he had raised $12 million for a new media venture of his, Milo Inc. He’s described the company as a way to make progressives’ lives a “living hell.”

At a party last night in Miami, the former Breitbart editor delivered a couple of new bits of info related to this undertaking — he’s suing a book publisher and he’s creating a publishing arm so his latest book can get printed.

One of the casualties from the unearthing of his pro-pedophilia remarks was Simon & Schuster canceling publication of ‘Dangerous,’ the book he had received a huge upfront fee from the publisher to write. Well, Milo said last night that he’s now going to sue them for big bucks. “I am suing Simon & Schuster for $10 million,” he told his audience, live streamed on YouTube. “I want to send them a message that they can never again do this to a libertarian or a conservative.”

http://www.mediaite.com/online/milo-suing-simon-and-schuster-for-10-million-will-independently-publish-book/