The direction of conservatives (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

Two polls interested me this morning, both concerning Donald Trump:

The first is that Trump’s approval rating among conservatives has risen since the FBI action, and is much higher now than conservative approval of the GOP in general. We sort of knew this anecdotally already, but the numbers bear it out.

The second poll is that 57% of Americans want the investigations into Trump to continue. Since it’s unlikely that any of that 57% make up the same people who are the subjects of the first poll, this Is suggestive of a deep divide.

Now throw in the following factors: conservatives strongly approving of the Dobbs decision while the majority of the public disapproves (by a 20 point margin); conservatives dominating the GOP primaries and selecting a number of candidates regarded as too extreme by the general public and who are likely to be defeated in November.

And all of this leads to…I don’t know what it leads to. The purpose of this post isn’t to criticize the conservative movement (though I strongly disagree with it on all of these issues) but to point out that it appears to be moving sharply in one direction, while the rest of the country, a majority, appears to be moving in another.

 

[John123]

Two polls interested me this morning, both concerning Donald Trump:

The first is that Trump’s approval rating among conservatives has risen since the FBI action, and is much higher now than conservative approval of the GOP in general. We sort of knew this anecdotally already, but the numbers bear it out.

The second poll is that 57% of Americans want the investigations into Trump to continue. Since it’s unlikely that any of that 57% make up the same people who are the subjects of the first poll, this Is suggestive of a deep divide.

Now throw in the following factors: conservatives strongly approving of the Dobbs decision while the majority of the public disapproves (by a 20 point margin); conservatives dominating the GOP primaries and selecting a number of candidates regarded as too extreme by the general public and who are likely to be defeated in November.

And all of this leads to…I don’t know what it leads to. The purpose of this post isn’t to criticize the conservative movement (though I strongly disagree with it on all of these issues) but to point out that it appears to be moving sharply in one direction, while the rest of the country, a majority, appears to be moving in another.

Ugh. A strong majority of Americans believe our southern border is an invasion and a crisis. But you don't care about that. In fact, you're just dismiss that FACT as not only don't you care but it's good that we're being invaded. It's amazing how you pick and choose what issues to care about. And everything you said above can be easily explained without the conclusion that the country is headed in one direction and the GOP in another.

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm very concerned about the blatant move towards Christian Nationalism.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I'm not sure Trump's approval rising (or rather disapproval of the FBI raid) is an indicator of the "direction of Conservatives".

 

[timschochet]

Two polls interested me this morning, both concerning Donald Trump:

The first is that Trump’s approval rating among conservatives has risen since the FBI action, and is much higher now than conservative approval of the GOP in general. We sort of knew this anecdotally already, but the numbers bear it out.

The second poll is that 57% of Americans want the investigations into Trump to continue. Since it’s unlikely that any of that 57% make up the same people who are the subjects of the first poll, this Is suggestive of a deep divide.

Now throw in the following factors: conservatives strongly approving of the Dobbs decision while the majority of the public disapproves (by a 20 point margin); conservatives dominating the GOP primaries and selecting a number of candidates regarded as too extreme by the general public and who are likely to be defeated in November.

And all of this leads to…I don’t know what it leads to. The purpose of this post isn’t to criticize the conservative movement (though I strongly disagree with it on all of these issues) but to point out that it appears to be moving sharply in one direction, while the rest of the country, a majority, appears to be moving in another.

Ugh. A strong majority of Americans believe our southern border is an invasion and a crisis. But you don't care about that. In fact, you're just dismiss that FACT as not only don't you care but it's good that we're being invaded. It's amazing how you pick and choose what issues to care about. And everything you said above can be easily explained without the conclusion that the country is headed in one direction and the GOP in another.

First off, my views on the southern border are certainly eclectic and my own and are not representative of a majority of the public, or even the Democratic Party. I’m off on my own on that one. But that being said, I don’t think that your statement that the strong majority of Americans believe it to be an “invasion” and is aligned with the conservative viewpoint on this issue is accurate either and I challenge you to back that up.

On to your last point: if what I wrote can be easily explained without my conclusion that conservatives are moving one way and the general public another, by all means please do so. I’m open to alternative explanations; but I’m unaware of them at present.

 

[Rubiobot]

I'm not sure Trump's approval rising (or rather disapproval of the FBI raid) is an indicator of the "direction of Conservatives".

This x 1000.

 

[(HULK)]

Two polls interested me this morning, both concerning Donald Trump:

The first is that Trump’s approval rating among conservatives has risen since the FBI action, and is much higher now than conservative approval of the GOP in general. We sort of knew this anecdotally already, but the numbers bear it out.

The second poll is that 57% of Americans want the investigations into Trump to continue. Since it’s unlikely that any of that 57% make up the same people who are the subjects of the first poll, this Is suggestive of a deep divide.

Now throw in the following factors: conservatives strongly approving of the Dobbs decision while the majority of the public disapproves (by a 20 point margin); conservatives dominating the GOP primaries and selecting a number of candidates regarded as too extreme by the general public and who are likely to be defeated in November.

And all of this leads to…I don’t know what it leads to. The purpose of this post isn’t to criticize the conservative movement (though I strongly disagree with it on all of these issues) but to point out that it appears to be moving sharply in one direction, while the rest of the country, a majority, appears to be moving in another.

Ugh. A strong majority of Americans believe our southern border is an invasion and a crisis. But you don't care about that. In fact, you're just dismiss that FACT as not only don't you care but it's good that we're being invaded. It's amazing how you pick and choose what issues to care about. And everything you said above can be easily explained without the conclusion that the country is headed in one direction and the GOP in another.

What are you basing this "strong majority" of Americans that think the southern border is a "invasion" and a "crisis". I wouldn't use either word to describe it personally.

 

[(HULK)]

I think we should stop calling Trumpists "conservative". There's overlap, but it isn't about conservatism at all IMO.

 

[timschochet]

Two polls interested me this morning, both concerning Donald Trump:

The first is that Trump’s approval rating among conservatives has risen since the FBI action, and is much higher now than conservative approval of the GOP in general. We sort of knew this anecdotally already, but the numbers bear it out.

The second poll is that 57% of Americans want the investigations into Trump to continue. Since it’s unlikely that any of that 57% make up the same people who are the subjects of the first poll, this Is suggestive of a deep divide.

Now throw in the following factors: conservatives strongly approving of the Dobbs decision while the majority of the public disapproves (by a 20 point margin); conservatives dominating the GOP primaries and selecting a number of candidates regarded as too extreme by the general public and who are likely to be defeated in November.

And all of this leads to…I don’t know what it leads to. The purpose of this post isn’t to criticize the conservative movement (though I strongly disagree with it on all of these issues) but to point out that it appears to be moving sharply in one direction, while the rest of the country, a majority, appears to be moving in another.

Ugh. A strong majority of Americans believe our southern border is an invasion and a crisis. But you don't care about that. In fact, you're just dismiss that FACT as not only don't you care but it's good that we're being invaded. It's amazing how you pick and choose what issues to care about. And everything you said above can be easily explained without the conclusion that the country is headed in one direction and the GOP in another.

First off, my views on the southern border are certainly eclectic and my own and are not representative of a majority of the public, or even the Democratic Party. I’m off on my own on that one. But that being said, I don’t think that your statement that the strong majority of Americans believe it to be an “invasion” and is aligned with the conservative viewpoint on this issue is accurate either and I challenge you to back that up.

On to your last point: if what I wrote can be easily explained without my conclusion that conservatives are moving one way and the general public another, by all means please do so. I’m open to alternative explanations; but I’m unaware of them at present.

ETA never mind on my challenge; I see where you got that number:

https://www.wyomingnews.com/news/national/poll-majority-of-americans-say-u-s-is-being-invaded-at-the-southern-border/article_79f76be2-8ad1-525b-a625-59ec7c2d7c4f.html

Pretty depressing. But you’re right it’s one issue where conservatives and the general public (enough of them) appear to agree. There are a few others as well. I don’t think it changes the essential point of my OP which is that the general directions are diverging.

 

[John123]

First off, my views on the southern border are certainly eclectic and my own and are not representative of a majority of the public, or even the Democratic Party. I’m off on my own on that one. But that being said, I don’t think that your statement that the strong majority of Americans believe it to be an “invasion” and is aligned with the conservative viewpoint on this issue is accurate either and I challenge you to back that up.

On to your last point: if what I wrote can be easily explained without my conclusion that conservatives are moving one way and the general public another, by all means please do so. I’m open to alternative explanations; but I’m unaware of them at present.

Does an NPR poll count?

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/npr-immigration-perceptions-august-2022

And the above is why I won't engage with you on this topic. You're completely ignorant on the topic, and yet at the same time so indignant. I have no desire to enter the Tim rabbit hole. Have fun with those that choose to do so.

 

[timschochet]

First off, my views on the southern border are certainly eclectic and my own and are not representative of a majority of the public, or even the Democratic Party. I’m off on my own on that one. But that being said, I don’t think that your statement that the strong majority of Americans believe it to be an “invasion” and is aligned with the conservative viewpoint on this issue is accurate either and I challenge you to back that up.

On to your last point: if what I wrote can be easily explained without my conclusion that conservatives are moving one way and the general public another, by all means please do so. I’m open to alternative explanations; but I’m unaware of them at present.

Does an NPR poll count?

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/npr-immigration-perceptions-august-2022

And the above is why I won't engage with you on this topic. You're completely ignorant on the topic, and yet at the same time so indignant. I have no desire to enter the Tim rabbit hole. Have fun with those that choose to do so.

I don’t think I’m ignorant at all on the topic of illegal immigration; in fact I’m pretty well versed on the subject, and, based on your posts about it, far more well informed than you are, no offense. I admit to being ignorant of that latest, depressing poll. Mea culpa.

But the topic of this thread is not the southern border. You brought it up; I did not. You also asserted that the points I brought up in the OP were “easily explainable” without leading to my conclusion of a deep divide. I’m still waiting for you to do so.

 

[Stoneworker]

Not sure exactly what the OP is asking...because as it relates to a person's political philosophy the words "conservative" and "moving sharply" are rarely used in the same sentence together. If people have a conservative view on something it tends to be pretty well rooted.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Two polls interested me this morning, both concerning Donald Trump:

The first is that Trump’s approval rating among conservatives has risen since the FBI action, and is much higher now than conservative approval of the GOP in general. We sort of knew this anecdotally already, but the numbers bear it out.

The second poll is that 57% of Americans want the investigations into Trump to continue. Since it’s unlikely that any of that 57% make up the same people who are the subjects of the first poll, this Is suggestive of a deep divide.

Now throw in the following factors: conservatives strongly approving of the Dobbs decision while the majority of the public disapproves (by a 20 point margin); conservatives dominating the GOP primaries and selecting a number of candidates regarded as too extreme by the general public and who are likely to be defeated in November.

And all of this leads to…I don’t know what it leads to. The purpose of this post isn’t to criticize the conservative movement (though I strongly disagree with it on all of these issues) but to point out that it appears to be moving sharply in one direction, while the rest of the country, a majority, appears to be moving in another.

Ugh. A strong majority of Americans believe our southern border is an invasion and a crisis. But you don't care about that. In fact, you're just dismiss that FACT as not only don't you care but it's good that we're being invaded. It's amazing how you pick and choose what issues to care about. And everything you said above can be easily explained without the conclusion that the country is headed in one direction and the GOP in another.

What are you basing this "strong majority" of Americans that think the southern border is a "invasion" and a "crisis". I wouldn't use either word to describe it personally.

52% might not be a "strong" majority, but it is getting stronger. (Google npr/ipsos poll on this topic)

ETA: nevermind I see it has been linked

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm very concerned about the blatant move towards Christian Nationalism.

Posts like this are what keep me coming back to the PSF.

Christian Nationalism

Go say that to your wife, your child, your neighbor, your boss and they will think you are off your meds.

Thanks for your well reasoned response. I will take your viewpoint under advisement. Its posts like this that really raise the level of conversation.

 

[Stealthycat]

of course we want the investigations to continue - why wouldn't we want to know the truth ??

 

[massraider]

Trump’s throw-everything-against-the-wall response to the Mar-a-Lago search Here is a thorough run down of what the former president’s team has argued, so far.

His legal team is just.....embarrassing

 

[(HULK)]

First off, my views on the southern border are certainly eclectic and my own and are not representative of a majority of the public, or even the Democratic Party. I’m off on my own on that one. But that being said, I don’t think that your statement that the strong majority of Americans believe it to be an “invasion” and is aligned with the conservative viewpoint on this issue is accurate either and I challenge you to back that up.

On to your last point: if what I wrote can be easily explained without my conclusion that conservatives are moving one way and the general public another, by all means please do so. I’m open to alternative explanations; but I’m unaware of them at present.

Does an NPR poll count?

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/npr-immigration-perceptions-august-2022

And the above is why I won't engage with you on this topic. You're completely ignorant on the topic, and yet at the same time so indignant. I have no desire to enter the Tim rabbit hole. Have fun with those that choose to do so.

Only 28% of Americans said we have an invasion on the southern border was "completely true". Another 23% said "somewhat true" but they probably, like me, think of it as a problem and not so much as an "invasion". Invasion is pretty charged language IMO. Same with "crisis". Both are way over utilized to the extent they're losing meaning.

ETA: "Somewhat true" implies they also think that statement about an invasion is somewhat false.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Only 28% of Americans said we have an invasion on the southern border was "completely true". Another 23% said "somewhat true" but they probably, like me, think of it as a problem and not so much as an "invasion". Invasion is pretty charged language IMO. Same with "crisis". Both are way over utilized to the extent they're losing meaning.

Invasion is the perfect word to describe millions of foreigners illegally pouring over your border. I am sure they will just change the dictionary, but for now...

"an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity."

 

[Rubiobot]

Only 28% of Americans said we have an invasion on the southern border was "completely true". Another 23% said "somewhat true" but they probably, like me, think of it as a problem and not so much as an "invasion". Invasion is pretty charged language IMO. Same with "crisis". Both are way over utilized to the extent they're losing meaning.

Invasion is the perfect word to describe millions of foreigners illegally pouring over your border. I am sure they will just change the dictionary, but for now...

"an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity."

Invasion is a perfect word for those that like sensationalism.

 

[(HULK)]

Only 28% of Americans said we have an invasion on the southern border was "completely true". Another 23% said "somewhat true" but they probably, like me, think of it as a problem and not so much as an "invasion". Invasion is pretty charged language IMO. Same with "crisis". Both are way over utilized to the extent they're losing meaning.

Invasion is the perfect word to describe millions of foreigners illegally pouring over your border. I am sure they will just change the dictionary, but for now...

"an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity."

The first definition is "an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force". You listed the 2nd definition. I don't like it's usage here because people are treating it more like it's the first definition.

How come it wasn't an "invasion" during Trump's years when it was over 10 million illegal immigrants annually, but it is now that Joe's president?

 

[(HULK)]

Here are the DHS and CIS estimates of the illegal immigrant population during recent years:
2016: 11.75M
2017: 11.41M
2018: 11.39M
2019: 11.48M
2020: 10.22M (Covid)
2021: 11.35M
2022: 11.46M (estimated)

So, how is it a crisis and invasion now, when it was higher under Trump in 2019?

Illegal immigration is definitely higher than desirable, but it is still pretty much par for the course, isn't it? But, swap presidents and some people change their opinion of it. That says much more about people's partisanship than it does about illegal immigration.

 

[The Commish]

Thought it'd be a while before the "conservatives" started trying to take the title back from Trumpers. I was wrong. Pretty soon we'll find out that "conservative" really has no meaning.

 

[dkp993]

Here are the DHS and CIS estimates of the illegal immigrant population during recent years:
2016: 11.75M
2017: 11.41M
2018: 11.39M
2019: 11.48M
2020: 10.22M (Covid)
2021: 11.35M
2022: 11.46M (estimated)

So, how is it a crisis and invasion now, when it was higher under Trump in 2019?

Illegal immigration is definitely higher than desirable, but it is still pretty much par for the course, isn't it? But, swap presidents and some people change their opinion of it. That says much more about people's partisanship than it does about illegal immigration.

It just like the debt, it’s only a crisis or problem when a party isn’t in office.

 

[Amused to Death]

Here are the DHS and CIS estimates of the illegal immigrant population during recent years:
2016: 11.75M
2017: 11.41M
2018: 11.39M
2019: 11.48M
2020: 10.22M (Covid)
2021: 11.35M
2022: 11.46M (estimated)

So, how is it a crisis and invasion now, when it was higher under Trump in 2019?

Illegal immigration is definitely higher than desirable, but it is still pretty much par for the course, isn't it? But, swap presidents and some people change their opinion of it. That says much more about people's partisanship than it does about illegal immigration.

Thanks, I was wondering how the numbers compared under Biden vs. historically. Shockingly the right wing media uses the "invasion" tactic whenever they need a diversion.

 

[Stoneworker]

Here are the DHS and CIS estimates of the illegal immigrant population during recent years:
2016: 11.75M
2017: 11.41M
2018: 11.39M
2019: 11.48M
2020: 10.22M (Covid)
2021: 11.35M
2022: 11.46M (estimated)

So, how is it a crisis and invasion now, when it was higher under Trump in 2019?

Illegal immigration is definitely higher than desirable, but it is still pretty much par for the course, isn't it? But, swap presidents and some people change their opinion of it. That says much more about people's partisanship than it does about illegal immigration.

The illegal population living in the U.S. was reduced by 1.2 million under four years of Trump. Which means border security measures were effective.

And in just one year under Biden his admin allowed a net inflow of 1.1 million illegals. Which means border security measures are horrible.

1.1 million increase in illegals is the most since early 2000's when immigration was stabilized.

Pretty straightforward. This admin has no plan and no solution to uncontrolled illegal crossings.

Estimating the Illegal Immigrant Population Using the Current Population Survey

We estimate that in January 2022 there were 11.35 million illegal immigrants in the country — a 1.13 million increase over the 10.22 million in January 2021.

cis.org

 

[ekbeats]

There is no comparison between illegal immigration under Biden and Trump.

https://twitter.com/adam_wola/status/1559993429689614336?s=21&t=PKR3Hvcpn8vYy0FIjNY7AQ

 

[Stoneworker]

More facts and analysis from CIS.

• Illegal immigrants account for more than one million (about two-thirds) of the increase in the total foreign-born population since January of 2021.
• While the current number of illegal immigrants in the country has returned to pre-pandemic levels, if current trends are allowed to continue the number will soon surpass the number before Covid-19.
• The monthly CPS also shows that the total foreign-born population (legal and illegal together) grew to 46.7 million in February 2022, a new record high in American history and an increase of 1.7 million since January 2021.
• For the illegal-immigrant population or the foreign-born population in general to grow, new arrivals must exceed emigration and deaths. Births to the foreign-born, legal or illegal, in the U.S. do not add to the illegal immigrant population or the overall foreign-born population as all children born in the U.S. are by definition native-born.

Estimating the Illegal Immigrant Population Using the Current Population Survey

We estimate that in January 2022 there were 11.35 million illegal immigrants in the country — a 1.13 million increase over the 10.22 million in January 2021.

cis.org

 

[(HULK)]

There is no comparison between illegal immigration under Biden and Trump.

https://twitter.com/adam_wola/status/1559993429689614336?s=21&t=PKR3Hvcpn8vYy0FIjNY7AQ

That's apprehensions.

Clearly Biden caught more. More were coming too I guess.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Only 28% of Americans said we have an invasion on the southern border was "completely true". Another 23% said "somewhat true" but they probably, like me, think of it as a problem and not so much as an "invasion". Invasion is pretty charged language IMO. Same with "crisis". Both are way over utilized to the extent they're losing meaning.

Invasion is the perfect word to describe millions of foreigners illegally pouring over your border. I am sure they will just change the dictionary, but for now...

"an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity."

The first definition is "an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force". You listed the 2nd definition. I don't like it's usage here because people are treating it more like it's the first definition.

How come it wasn't an "invasion" during Trump's years when it was over 10 million illegal immigrants annually, but it is now that Joe's president?

I didnt say it wasnt an invasion then. Definition still fits for what was happening back then.

And lol @ second definition

 

[timschochet]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

 

[Shula-holic]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

I think it’s the effect and not the cause. The worse their economy is back home relative to ours the numbers increase.

 

[Stoneworker]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

Facts suggest otherwise. When illegals numbers go up, economic growth goes down.

There was a 1.1 million increase in illegal population during 2021.

In the first two quarters of 2022, we had negative GDP growth.

Pretty straightforward.

 

[sho nuff]

Facts and CIS don't belong in the same sentence.

To put it even further...not sure Id want to link to any source where the founder is a guy like John Tanton.

 

[skol asylum]

Two polls interested me this morning, both concerning Donald Trump:

The first is that Trump’s approval rating among conservatives has risen since the FBI action, and is much higher now than conservative approval of the GOP in general. We sort of knew this anecdotally already, but the numbers bear it out.

The second poll is that 57% of Americans want the investigations into Trump to continue. Since it’s unlikely that any of that 57% make up the same people who are the subjects of the first poll, this Is suggestive of a deep divide.

Now throw in the following factors: conservatives strongly approving of the Dobbs decision while the majority of the public disapproves (by a 20 point margin); conservatives dominating the GOP primaries and selecting a number of candidates regarded as too extreme by the general public and who are likely to be defeated in November.

And all of this leads to…I don’t know what it leads to. The purpose of this post isn’t to criticize the conservative movement (though I strongly disagree with it on all of these issues) but to point out that it appears to be moving sharply in one direction, while the rest of the country, a majority, appears to be moving in another.

Ugh. A strong majority of Americans believe our southern border is an invasion and a crisis. But you don't care about that. In fact, you're just dismiss that FACT as not only don't you care but it's good that we're being invaded. It's amazing how you pick and choose what issues to care about. And everything you said above can be easily explained without the conclusion that the country is headed in one direction and the GOP in another.

It's really odd sitting here in Arizona with this invasion going on around me. It's almost like it's overblown and doesn't affect my day to day at all. It couldn't just be a political bogeyman could it? Nah. Conservative politicians have never resorted to those.

 

[skol asylum]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

Plus, if you are a CONSISTENT capitalist Republican you should believe in the free and open movement of labor.

 

[Stoneworker]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

Plus, if you are a CONSISTENT capitalist Republican you should believe in the free and open movement of labor.

Lmao. This is beyond ridiculous.

 

[skol asylum]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

Plus, if you are a CONSISTENT capitalist Republican you should believe in the free and open movement of labor.

Lmao. This is beyond ridiculous.

Free market capitalism.

 

[Stoneworker]

Free market capitalism.

So the entire globe is your free market? Good luck with that.

 

[skol asylum]

Will be really interesting to see the breakdown of the female vote this fall and in 2024 given the continued escalation of the historical degradation of women by the GOP.

Ahimsa on TikTok

This got removed without the option to appeal? Repost

www.tiktok.com

 

[skol asylum]

Free market capitalism.

So the entire globe is your free market? Good luck with that.

To be clear, my position is all the politicians have failed with immigration. There's no reason we can't have reform that allows migrant workers to come here legally instead of the mess of illegal immigration and the humanitarian problems that causes.
Theres clearly a demand for this labor and a desire to fill it by those looking for better lives for them and their families.

 

[Stoneworker]

To be clear, my position is all the politicians have failed with immigration. There's no reason we can't have reform that allows migrant workers to come here legally instead of the mess of illegal immigration and the humanitarian problems that causes.
Theres clearly a demand for this labor and a desire to fill it by those looking for better lives for them and their families.

Works for me. But your first response clearly supported another post that advocated illegal immigration. Supporting legal immigration and opposing illegal immigration has nothing to do with GOP views on capitalism.

 

[MAC_32]

Free market capitalism.

So the entire globe is your free market? Good luck with that.

To be clear, my position is all the politicians have failed with immigration. There's no reason we can't have reform that allows migrant workers to come here legally instead of the mess of illegal immigration and the humanitarian problems that causes.
Theres clearly a demand for this labor and a desire to fill it by those looking for better lives for them and their families.

This is why the GOP opposition is white noise. The solution involves more humans migrating legally, but their suggested policies do not lead to that outcome. Because of that what we see on the border is inevitable - one side shoves a rag in the sink drain filling up with water and the other removes the rag. This is absolutely a both sides problem and anyone defending either one of them is part of the problem.

 

[quick-hands]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

Plus, if you are a CONSISTENT capitalist Republican you should believe in the free and open movement of labor.

Lmao. This is beyond ridiculous.

Free market capitalism.

you might wanna start with Adam Smith "wealth of nations"

 

[skol asylum]

To be clear, my position is all the politicians have failed with immigration. There's no reason we can't have reform that allows migrant workers to come here legally instead of the mess of illegal immigration and the humanitarian problems that causes.
Theres clearly a demand for this labor and a desire to fill it by those looking for better lives for them and their families.

Works for me. But your first response clearly supported another post that advocated illegal immigration. Supporting legal immigration and opposing illegal immigration has nothing to do with GOP views on capitalism.

My point was more along the lines of how the GOP is using the "open borders" as some kind of bogeyman that is destroying America. It's not. It's the whole rapists and killers angle that is racist and xenophobic. Plus this new Republican party doesn't even really support legal immigration even though, as Tim already pointed out, it's a healthy thing for our economy. Also we still have this issue because time and again the Republicans won't get on board with immigration reform. Democrats have failed because they haven't pushed hard enough on it because they worry about how effective the bogeyman has become to voters.

 

[Sand]

I think we should stop calling Trumpists "conservative". There's overlap, but it isn't about conservatism at all IMO.

True - Trump is a populist, not a conservative.

 

[Sand]

Plus this new Republican party doesn't even really support legal immigration

Can you give a specific example of this from a prominent Republican?

 

[The Commish]

Can you give a specific example of this from a prominent Republican?

I'd say ANY "no" vote where increased funds for lawyers, judges, and facilities to process immigrants coming to this country would clear this bar.

 

[timschochet]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

Plus, if you are a CONSISTENT capitalist Republican you should believe in the free and open movement of labor.

Lmao. This is beyond ridiculous.

Free market capitalism.

you might wanna start with Adam Smith "wealth of nations"

Maybe you should. Adam would have been for free and open immigration.

 

[timschochet]

Free market capitalism.

So the entire globe is your free market? Good luck with that.

If only. What a wonderful world that would be.

 

[quick-hands]

The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better the economy is. When you see the numbers go down that’s a bad sign for economic growth.

Plus, if you are a CONSISTENT capitalist Republican you should believe in the free and open movement of labor.

Lmao. This is beyond ridiculous.

Free market capitalism.

you might wanna start with Adam Smith "wealth of nations"

Maybe you should. Adam would have been for free and open immigration.

no with the welfare state we have. I think you need to go read it Tim. I read it in college. I don't remember the chapter on show up and claim your benefits. but there is quite a bit on strong character.