Am I the only one who doesn't think NE did anything wrong? (1 Viewer)

[tombonneau]

I think a lot of people on these boards are getting caught up in the details, and not the big picture here.It was stated a few times on ESPN/NFL network that the commish told all the teams that the videotaping/cameras/stealing signals will stop this year. Logically, that means that probably more than one team is, or was, already at least attempting to steal signals using various means.I think the fairly harsh penalty; coming down from the commish isn’t so much for the actual videotaping, but much more because Belichick just flagrantly ignored him (commish). In today’s world, with today’s technology, and the funding Belichick has, he could easily of had a 100 different types of spy cameras, recording devices, etc., on or near the field, and no one would’ve been the wiser. But no…..he stands some shmoe out on the sideline with a camera the size of a Yugo, and points the guy directly at the Defensive coach for the game. That’s hardly the actions of a guy that fears being reprimanded by his superiors (Goodell). I really think the Belichick thought he was “above it all”, and was just going to keep doing business as usual, and that really pissed off Goodell. At the same time, I think it’s really naive of any football fan that thinks their team isn’t doing or trying to do the same thing every weekend. Their team just isn’t dumb (I take that back…Egotistical) enough to hire a film crew to steal signals after the commish just told them not to a week before the season started.Just my opinion….it will be nice to just get back to worrying which RB match-up to play this weekend. Good luck in your games.

Congrats. You just summed it up perfectly. I am now done with this topic.

 

[mad sweeney]

I think a lot of people on these boards are getting caught up in the details, and not the big picture here.It was stated a few times on ESPN/NFL network that the commish told all the teams that the videotaping/cameras/stealing signals will stop this year. Logically, that means that probably more than one team is, or was, already at least attempting to steal signals using various means.I think the fairly harsh penalty; coming down from the commish isn’t so much for the actual videotaping, but much more because Belichick just flagrantly ignored him (commish). In today’s world, with today’s technology, and the funding Belichick has, he could easily of had a 100 different types of spy cameras, recording devices, etc., on or near the field, and no one would’ve been the wiser. But no…..he stands some shmoe out on the sideline with a camera the size of a Yugo, and points the guy directly at the Defensive coach for the game. That’s hardly the actions of a guy that fears being reprimanded by his superiors (Goodell). I really think the Belichick thought he was “above it all”, and was just going to keep doing business as usual, and that really pissed off Goodell. At the same time, I think it’s really naive of any football fan that thinks their team isn’t doing or trying to do the same thing every weekend. Their team just isn’t dumb (I take that back…Egotistical) enough to hire a film crew to steal signals after the commish just told them not to a week before the season started.Just my opinion….it will be nice to just get back to worrying which RB match-up to play this weekend. Good luck in your games.

I have a hard time buying the idea that the Commish hands down almost a million bucks in fines and a 1st round pick simply because Belicheat flagrantly ignored the memo. I think for that kind of penalty there has to be a better reason than the Commish's ego.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

"everyone's doin it"I'm from Denver and I see no problem with what they were doing. They got caught and deserve to be penalized but as far as morality and the "integrity" of the game? That's all bull####.

Vick could have used you on his defense team

 

[EMoney]

They got caught and deserve to be penalized but as far as morality and the "integrity" of the game? That's all bull####.

Right. If this had been any other team there would not have been near the outrage and coverage.

 

[majarrek]

The commish has no balls and is a racist. He suspends Vick indefinitely before he even admits guilt. He suspends other black athletes who break the rules, but there's no suspension for the white coach. I'm white, but if the commish really wanted to send a message that he treats everyone fairly he would have suspended Bellicheck after Mangina ratted him out. It's not like Bellicheck wasn't warned before. He blatantly cheated and broke the rules of professional conduct. I put an asterisk next to their Superbowl wins. This commish's response was a disgrace to the league....

 

[delusional]

...

Ok sorry but that was an idiotic post above about the commish being racist. Sorry mods but there is no if's an's or but's about it.

 

[twitch]

The commish has no balls and is a racist. He suspends Vick indefinitely before he even admits guilt. He suspends other black athletes who break the rules, but there's no suspension for the white coach. I'm white, but if the commish really wanted to send a message that he treats everyone fairly he would have suspended Bellicheck after Mangina ratted him out. It's not like Bellicheck wasn't warned before. He blatantly cheated and broke the rules of professional conduct. I put an asterisk next to their Superbowl wins. This commish's response was a disgrace to the league....

the ridiculousness of this post really should put an end to it all. I can count on one hand the number of minutes of sleep I'll lose over your 'asterisk'.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I think a lot of people on these boards are getting caught up in the details, and not the big picture here.It was stated a few times on ESPN/NFL network that the commish told all the teams that the videotaping/cameras/stealing signals will stop this year. Logically, that means that probably more than one team is, or was, already at least attempting to steal signals using various means.I think the fairly harsh penalty; coming down from the commish isn’t so much for the actual videotaping, but much more because Belichick just flagrantly ignored him (commish). In today’s world, with today’s technology, and the funding Belichick has, he could easily of had a 100 different types of spy cameras, recording devices, etc., on or near the field, and no one would’ve been the wiser. But no…..he stands some shmoe out on the sideline with a camera the size of a Yugo, and points the guy directly at the Defensive coach for the game. That’s hardly the actions of a guy that fears being reprimanded by his superiors (Goodell). I really think the Belichick thought he was “above it all”, and was just going to keep doing business as usual, and that really pissed off Goodell. At the same time, I think it’s really naive of any football fan that thinks their team isn’t doing or trying to do the same thing every weekend. Their team just isn’t dumb (I take that back…Egotistical) enough to hire a film crew to steal signals after the commish just told them not to a week before the season started.Just my opinion….it will be nice to just get back to worrying which RB match-up to play this weekend. Good luck in your games.

I have a hard time buying the idea that the Commish hands down almost a million bucks in fines and a 1st round pick simply because Belicheat flagrantly ignored the memo. I think for that kind of penalty there has to be a better reason than the Commish's ego.

so much more. This is 10x worse than bonds any steroid allegation.Bonds/HGH = writing a few test answers on yoru leg, taking adderal to study for exam.BellyCheat= stealing the quiz's from the teachers desk.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

They got caught and deserve to be penalized but as far as morality and the "integrity" of the game? That's all bull####.

Right. If this had been any other team there would not have been near the outrage and coverage.

do you m#######s actually believe it when you talk out of yourselves?

 

[Irish]

Let's look at it this way.You have a job making chocolate chip cookies. Your boss tells you SPECIFICALLY not to put raisins in the cookies or you'll be fired. You think it's stupid, and it doesn't make a difference, because raisins are good with chocolate chips and raisins never hurt anybody. So you go ahead and put raisins in the cookies because you saw some of the other cookie makers doing it.Then your boss fires you because he caught you putting raisins in the cookies. Then you whine and complain that you didn't do anything wrong, because after all, raisins are good with chocolate chips, and the other cookie makers were doing it. But you forget that your boss TOLD YOU NOT TO DO IT. But you did it anyways because the raisins make the cookies taste better!You people are ridiculous.

This is just crazy talk. Who puts raisins in a chocolate chip cookies?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

The commish has no balls and is a racist. He suspends Vick indefinitely before he even admits guilt. He suspends other black athletes who break the rules, but there's no suspension for the white coach. I'm white, but if the commish really wanted to send a message that he treats everyone fairly he would have suspended Bellicheck after Mangina ratted him out. It's not like Bellicheck wasn't warned before. He blatantly cheated and broke the rules of professional conduct. I put an asterisk next to their Superbowl wins. This commish's response was a disgrace to the league....

you apparently don't realize the value of a 1st rd pick, or a 2/3 to the team

 

[Beaumont]

Let's look at it this way.You have a job making chocolate chip cookies. Your boss tells you SPECIFICALLY not to put raisins in the cookies or you'll be fired. You think it's stupid, and it doesn't make a difference, because raisins are good with chocolate chips and raisins never hurt anybody. So you go ahead and put raisins in the cookies because you saw some of the other cookie makers doing it.Then your boss fires you because he caught you putting raisins in the cookies. Then you whine and complain that you didn't do anything wrong, because after all, raisins are good with chocolate chips, and the other cookie makers were doing it. But you forget that your boss TOLD YOU NOT TO DO IT. But you did it anyways because the raisins make the cookies taste better!You people are ridiculous.

This is just crazy talk. Who puts raisins in a chocolate chip cookies?

The hypo lost me at rasins ... yuck.

 

[twistd]

Hear me out here. From all I've read/heard, it comes down to the fact that they used cameras to videotape Jets signals on the sideline, in hopes of being able to analyze those signals and put them to use and gain an advantage. Now, my question is, what is so wrong with that?

It is against league rules./thread

Presicely the point. Who wants to watch a game where one team knows what the other is going to do? It undermines the product on the field, jeapordizes the integrity of the game, and is, therefore, not in the interests of the NFL. Plain and simple....

That isn't entirely true. It is the means with which a team gathers that information. If a team is predictible, well then a defense might know what an offense is going to do, or vice versa. If a team is able to figure out what another team's audibles are, then they may know what is coming. So there are instances where a team may be aware of what the other team is going to do that are legal. But having your representative video tape the other team's signals, while on their sideline, is something the league has determined is an unfair advantage. As is intercepting the radio signals between the O coordinator and the QB. So it isn't an entirely black and white area.

 

[twitch]

Basically, "YES". You are the only one who thinks there was no wrong doing. I cannot imagine a Patriots fan in his right mind starting this thread.

 

[twistd]

Its not a stupid rule. Its a good rule. Its one thing to figure out signals as a player and a coach on the sidelines during the games, that they can be used in LATER games. Its another to have concrete proof of the signals ( and not go off someones memory ) and have it factor into THAT game. Big difference.

Here is one way this could all be avoided, put a communication device in the helmet of the defensive captain, just like they do with QBs. Then a member of the defense could talk to the defensive coordinator that way. I believe that will be done by next season, if not sooner. That would make this all a moot point.

 

[Traders2001]

They do like each and every other team does ( without exception ) , unfortunately they got caught.

 

[twistd]

Yeah, gotta be honest, this one is pretty simple. What is and isn't cheating is defined by the rules. The rules are written by the governing body. Local sports radio was talking about some parallel concepts in sports. Someone cannot take HGH which is against the rules, but they can get laser surgery to improve their eyesight. Hmmm, both improve the individual, but only one is condoned. Running this out a little further, a player cannot put vaseline on their football jersey, but they can use double-sided tape to keep their jersey stuck to their pads. Now both methods accomplish the same task but only one is against the rules. Obviously the rules are created by the governing body. That governing body determines the rules based on the morality of society, thus the double-sided tape and lasik surgery are universally accepted as normal; however, the opposite side of the coin relates to HGH and vaseline.So, according to the rules of the NFL, what "The Hoodie" did was wrong. Plain and simple. He is a member of the NFL, the NFL has guidelines, he broke those guidelines. DING! Personally, do I think he was wrong? Well, yes.

What additionally has to be said is that the NFL specifically told them not to do this before the season. This rule wasn't put in place this year. This rule has been in place. But before the season the league sent out a communique to be perfectly clear about the rule. That this indeed was a violation of the rules. The Pats ignored that and did it anyway.

 

[Bad_Mo]

I love how 99% of the posters on here act like they know the rule like they wrote the damn thing.

Let's put this crap to bed once and for all. The sanctions came down, Belichick released his statement, and the Patriots will pay the price. Whiners who hate NE for what they have accomplished should just #### about calling into question the 3 SuperBowls they have won. It sounds worse than people trying to defend the actions in the first place.

 

[Reaper]

If they are going to take away draft picks for video taping then they should start taking away draft picks for guy's that test positive for performance enhancing drugs. The teams will always say that they don't know what their players are taking but they should be held responsible. To me Roids will always tarnish the game more than any video tape.

You might be watching the wrong sport then

 

[FavreCo]

How bright of a guy is Belichick for trying to pull this off against his former assistant.

Pretty damn stupid because they would have easily won if he had not done it.

 

[jturner01]

"everyone's doin it"I'm from Denver and I see no problem with what they were doing. They got caught and deserve to be penalized but as far as morality and the "integrity" of the game? That's all bull####.

Boy you talk about 2 totally differnet things, 1st if the guy that is taping the signs gets loose he will not maul someone. 2nd videotaping is not illegal outside of the confines ot the NFL. You guys are just amazing me with all the outrage. I don't have a dog in this fight really as I am a Cowboy fan, but come on, have you listened to the interviews with most of the players? They all seem to say the same thing, "We may not be able to hear them with all that is going on." (except the ones that do not like N. E. ). Herm Edward was on the raido the other day laughing and joking about the whole thing basically saying that we are all trying to get into position to make plays that is why we watch so much tape, you still have to have players that can make plays. They do not appear to have a problem with it. This would lead me to belive that, it either does not give that much of an advantage or that most people are doing it.Another thing is some of you have made a point about daddy's (commish) fine and punishment. He has to lay the wood after the way he has come down on the players, not to mention his ego after he just told them not to do it.Again I do not have a dog in this fight, unlike some of you (Steeler Jets and Pats fan's) but if most of the players and coaches do not seem to have a problem than why should I?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

"everyone's doin it"I'm from Denver and I see no problem with what they were doing. They got caught and deserve to be penalized but as far as morality and the "integrity" of the game? That's all bull####.

Excellent post. I didn't quite get it the first two dozen times you posted this sentiment in every thread on the subject, but the 25th time made perfect sense and surely convinced everyone that you are correct. I doff my cap to you, sir.

 

[GroveDiesel]

"everyone's doin it"I'm from Denver and I see no problem with what they were doing. They got caught and deserve to be penalized but as far as morality and the "integrity" of the game? That's all bull####.

Excellent post. I didn't quite get it the first two dozen times you posted this sentiment in every thread on the subject, but the 25th time made perfect sense and surely convinced everyone that you are correct. I doff my cap to you, sir.

But EVERYBODY else is doing it!!! Of course there's no PROOF of that and nobody else has gotten caught, but since the Pats wouldn't DARE do something that nobody else is doing, everybody else MUST be cheating. Don't you know that there is NOBODY in the NFL that has any integrity and believes in abiding by the rules?As for the whole "I'm from Denver" thing, I don't get that. You may be from Denver, but you're a Patriots fan so it's not like you don't have a horse in the race.

 

[The Jerk]

They do like each and every other team does ( without exception ) , unfortunately they got caught.

My favorite post. Love the emphasis on without exception, as clearly you KNOW that every team is attempting to do the same thing as the Patriots in the exact same way.It's great to have someone bring in such a reasonable and balanced perspective into the conversation.

 

[The Jerk]

"everyone's doin it"I'm from Denver and I see no problem with what they were doing. They got caught and deserve to be penalized but as far as morality and the "integrity" of the game? That's all bull####.

Excellent post. I didn't quite get it the first two dozen times you posted this sentiment in every thread on the subject, but the 25th time made perfect sense and surely convinced everyone that you are correct. I doff my cap to you, sir.

But EVERYBODY else is doing it!!! Of course there's no PROOF of that and nobody else has gotten caught, but since the Pats wouldn't DARE do something that nobody else is doing, everybody else MUST be cheating. Don't you know that there is NOBODY in the NFL that has any integrity and believes in abiding by the rules?As for the whole "I'm from Denver" thing, I don't get that. You may be from Denver, but you're a Patriots fan so it's not like you don't have a horse in the race.

What's with the "everyone's doing it" defense?First, where is the evidence?Second, even if it is true -- despite the lack of evidence -- how does this make what the Patriots did right and/or unpunishable?Every day at least thousands of drivers are speeding and don't get caught, but if I choose to drive faster than the speed limit and I get caught, I'm guilty and I must own up to my actions. It doesn't matter what everyone else is or is not doing, and whether or not they get caught. What matters is if I get caught, and I'm guilty, then I face the punishment.If other teams are caught in the future, I hope the punishment is even more severe. It's not a "Patriot" thing, it's an "against breaking the rules" thing.

 

[geoff8695]

They do like each and every other team does ( without exception ) , unfortunately they got caught.

If that were true why don't we have a slew of other teams being 'ratted out' right now? I have only heard of a few other examples of this and interestingly enough one of these was Miami turning the tables on Belicheck and the Patriots and giving them a dose of their own medicine last year...

 

[Obie Wan]

Hear me out here. From all I've read/heard, it comes down to the fact that they used cameras to videotape Jets signals on the sideline, in hopes of being able to analyze those signals and put them to use and gain an advantage. Now, my question is, what is so wrong with that?

It is against league rules./thread

Presicely the point. Who wants to watch a game where one team knows what the other is going to do? It undermines the product on the field, jeapordizes the integrity of the game, and is, therefore, not in the interests of the NFL. Plain and simple....

More importantly - gamblers are not interested in losing their money in events rigged against them.

 

[pwtrash]

Its not a stupid rule.

Its a good rule.

Its one thing to figure out signals as a player and a coach on the sidelines during the games, that they can be used in LATER games. Its another to have concrete proof of the signals ( and not go off someones memory ) and have it factor into THAT game.

Big difference.

Really?

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/

So, everyone who thinks there is no difference between having a recording and watching something from memory, put your money where your mouth is. Disconnect your Tivo. Or, if you want to use it for time-shifting, go a week without rewinding once. Oh, and when the booth shows something in slow motion, don't watch it. I bet you still see everything just as well.I bet the vast majority of us like instant replay as a rule. It helps eliminate (or reduce) the confusion you have when you only get to see something once. It makes a big difference when you can look at something over & over again - you pick up things that you missed. "How did that guy get so open?" and "Who made that hole so big?" are helped with the technology, so it seems perfectly logical (and inevitable) that "so, what was the difference between signal that resulted in the strongside blitz and the one that had the DE drop into coverage - they looked the same to me? " would benefit as well.

Seriously, guys? There's no difference in your understanding of how a play worked if you watch it once versus watching it over again? Y'all are that good - as good as Shanahan claims to be? He's not that good. Maybe that happened once. Or maybe he's trying to get into the other teams heads. His teams record indicates that he really hasn't figured it out. The Pats record - as well as their style of winning - indicates that they have.

When you listen to Hines Ward - an upstanding NFL citizen - start to question the outcome of an AFC championship, or the Eagles start to question how the Patriots knew exactly when they were going to blitz every time, it starts to sound like maybe the Pats did have an advantage. Are they that smart? So smart that they need to cheat against the Jets? Their greatest strength as a team has been their ability to outthink other teams. Now we know that they probably didn't.

Bottom Line: If they don't believe that they are smart enough to beat the Jets without cheating, then I don't believe that they are smart enough to beat the Chargers without cheating.

They got off light. This is a big slap in the face of the NFL. As far as I'm concerned, BB & Brady are cheaters, and I'm as excited about their Super Bowl rings as I am about Bonds taking the record from Hammerin' Hank.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Its not a stupid rule.

Its a good rule.

Its one thing to figure out signals as a player and a coach on the sidelines during the games, that they can be used in LATER games. Its another to have concrete proof of the signals ( and not go off someones memory ) and have it factor into THAT game.

Big difference.

Really?

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/

So, everyone who thinks there is no difference between having a recording and watching something from memory, put your money where your mouth is. Disconnect your Tivo. Or, if you want to use it for time-shifting, go a week without rewinding once. Oh, and when the booth shows something in slow motion, don't watch it. I bet you still see everything just as well.I bet the vast majority of us like instant replay as a rule. It helps eliminate (or reduce) the confusion you have when you only get to see something once. It makes a big difference when you can look at something over & over again - you pick up things that you missed. "How did that guy get so open?" and "Who made that hole so big?" are helped with the technology, so it seems perfectly logical (and inevitable) that "so, what was the difference between signal that resulted in the strongside blitz and the one that had the DE drop into coverage - they looked the same to me? " would benefit as well.

Seriously, guys? There's no difference in your understanding of how a play worked if you watch it once versus watching it over again? Y'all are that good - as good as Shanahan claims to be? He's not that good. Maybe that happened once. Or maybe he's trying to get into the other teams heads. His teams record indicates that he really hasn't figured it out. The Pats record - as well as their style of winning - indicates that they have.

When you listen to Hines Ward - an upstanding NFL citizen - start to question the outcome of an AFC championship, or the Eagles start to question how the Patriots knew exactly when they were going to blitz every time, it starts to sound like maybe the Pats did have an advantage. Are they that smart? So smart that they need to cheat against the Jets? Their greatest strength as a team has been their ability to outthink other teams. Now we know that they probably didn't.

Bottom Line: If they don't believe that they are smart enough to beat the Jets without cheating, then I don't believe that they are smart enough to beat the Chargers without cheating.

They got off light. This is a big slap in the face of the NFL. As far as I'm concerned, BB & Brady are cheaters, and I'm as excited about their Super Bowl rings as I am about Bonds taking the record from Hammerin' Hank.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[az_prof]

Its not a stupid rule. Its a good rule. Its one thing to figure out signals as a player and a coach on the sidelines during the games, that they can be used in LATER games. Its another to have concrete proof of the signals ( and not go off someones memory ) and have it factor into THAT game. Big difference.

Aside from the fact that one is more effective than the other, how is it such a big difference?I am a Vikings fan and not a Pats fan. I see that they broke the rules and if the NFL really wants to stop this, I don't think the punishment was harsh enough.But I agree with the original poster in that it isn't really clear why this is against the rules as it isn't different in kind from what all teams do; the only difference that I can tell is that it is more effective.

 

[az_prof]

In looking for an analogy, how is this different from fantasy owners who get NFL Ticket and can watch all the games? That technology gives them an advantage over other owners as they can see players in action that someone without that technology can't. Are they "better" fantasy players because of it? No. They just have the advantage of seeing players in action that an owner without it can't. Should it be banned? Sounds like technology that is giving one owner a "competitive advantage."

 

[Sleeper 43]

He didn't do anything wrong, high school coaches do it weekly when they sit down and watch film of their opponents with the team. Hell we even do it at the pop warner level. It's not like video taping during the game was going to help him during that game, if they watched the first time at half time then I would feel differently.

They video games not the opponents play caller in lil league/hs, etc. It doesn't matter if they use it in THIS game, they are learning the Jets play book over time.You can tell off Bellicheats "apology" that he clearly thinks hes above everyone to say I messed up, you caught me.Instead its the "Its was in my supplements" type excuse .

 

[johnnycakes]

Look.

They got caught.

They got punished.

Bring on the next game.

Why can't we put this to bed now and be friends?

 

[HangingInThere]

Reminds me so much of Nixon in 1972. He didn't need any help whatsoever to crush the Democrats, who couldn't get out of their own way....

...but arrogance wins out over common sense ridiculously often....and is anyone more arrogant than Bill?

 

[ChrisHenrysDD]

Let's look at it this way.You have a job making chocolate chip cookies. Your boss tells you SPECIFICALLY not to put raisins in the cookies or you'll be fired. You think it's stupid, and it doesn't make a difference, because raisins are good with chocolate chips and raisins never hurt anybody. So you go ahead and put raisins in the cookies because you saw some of the other cookie makers doing it.Then your boss fires you because he caught you putting raisins in the cookies. Then you whine and complain that you didn't do anything wrong, because after all, raisins are good with chocolate chips, and the other cookie makers were doing it. But you forget that your boss TOLD YOU NOT TO DO IT. But you did it anyways because the raisins make the cookies taste better!You people are ridiculous.

This is just crazy talk. Who puts raisins in a chocolate chip cookies?

The hypo lost me at rasins ... yuck.

I dont like raisins- I had to choose something gross to replace "cheating". Macadamia's wouldn't suffice- they're too awesome. And as for who puts raisins in cookies- probably a smarmy jerk like Bellichek, that's who.

 

[PainTrain]

I dunno... it sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

I'm just trying to figure out how I can get MY team to trade a first round draft pick and $500k for a few cracks at the Super Bowl.