Anderson and Browns (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Tefertiller]

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/02/b...close_with.html

Browns' Savage: Talks close with Anderson

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot mcabot@plaind.com February 19, 2008 20:41PM

Categories: Browns

Browns General Manager Phil Savage said Tuesday he's optimistic the Browns will sign quarterback Derek Anderson to a three-year deal before he becomes a restricted free agent on Feb.¤28.

"Talks have been a little more frequent in recent days," Savage said in an e-mail response. "It seems that the three-year deal is becoming more the focus. We've had pretty good dialogue and will continue over the [NFL scouting] combine."

Savage and Anderson's agent, Mark Humenik of Athletes First, will be in Indianapolis for the combine over the next several days.

Also, in an interview with WKYC's Jim Donovan posted on cleveland.com, Savage said, "I do feel like [an Anderson deal] is going to get done. I have reason to think it will get done. We'll continue to work on it, but I do think it will go down to the days before free agency."

The Browns have until Feb.¤28 to sign Anderson to a multi-year deal or must tender him a one-year offer as a restricted free agent, meaning they retain a right of first refusal. Savage has said he'd give Anderson the high tender of $2.562 million, requiring a team to give the Browns a 1st- and 3rd-round pick if they signed him.

But Savage is increasingly confident it won't get to that point.

"It's not anything we're working on every single hour, but it has gone back and forth several times," said Savage. "I think we feel good about it."

Savage said the two sides have pretty much settled on three years as the length. The Browns had been proposing two- and three-year contracts and Anderson's camp had been seeking a six- or seven-year deals, Savage said.

"Obviously, the fallback is we tender him as a restricted free agent, but our objective has been to sign him beyond one year, so we've pretty much become focused on a three-year scenario and there's a couple of reasons for that," said Savage.

Presumably, one reason is that Brady Quinn is waiting in the wings. If the team made a long-term commitment to Anderson, they'd risk Quinn's agent, Tom Condon, asking for a trade.

Savage reiterated the Browns would be fine with Quinn sitting for a second year, citing San Diego's Philip Rivers doing likewise behind Drew Brees.

"I think we feel good about the [quarterback] position and we want to go forward the way it is," said Savage. "In order to best preserve doing that, we'd like to sign DA to this three-year contract."

Anderson indicated during Super Bowl week that he wasn't thrilled with the Browns' original offer. Apparently, things have changed since then.

Savage said he didn't know what the free-agent market would be for Anderson, but acknowledged "quarterback is a premium position." As for Anderson's dropoff in production over the last five games of the season and into the Pro Bowl, Savage said, "If you watch as much tape as our people here, we feel like Derek has an upside and he'll improve that aspect of his game. But at the same time, his greatest strength is that he's not scared to whistle the ball around anywhere on the field. ... [We'll] try to minimize the risk and do a better job of managing him through certain situations next year."

Savage also said in the e-mail that he's optimistic running back Jamal Lewis will be back next season. The Browns originally offered a two-year deal and Lewis' agent Mitch Frankel indicated he wanted at least a three-year contract, enabling Lewis to finish his career here.

Free agency begins at 12:01 a.m. on Feb.¤29.

"We've bantered back and forth on certain things but I do feel like Jamal will be in a Browns uniform next year," said Savage.

 

[sheerterror]

So, if Anderson signs a 3 year deal, where does this leave Brady Quinn? Are they really going to let him hold the clipboard until 2011?

 

[Avery]

So, if Anderson signs a 3 year deal, where does this leave Brady Quinn? Are they really going to let him hold the clipboard until 2011?

It all depends on how the potential three year contract is constructed in terms of signing bonus and salary.The number of years means very little in an NFL contract.

 

[nxmehta]

This is great news. I think a 3 year deal is the right length for a contract for Anderson. 6-7 years would be insane. If this 3 year deal doesn't break the bank, then we should be in business. It will give us plenty of time and options in choosing between Quinn and Anderson in the future.

I actually think that Lewis should be a bigger priority, but that's just me...

Now all we need to do is get back in the first round this year. Work your magic Phil!

 

[Banger]

I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a mistake for the Browns. The Browns are in a "good" but difficult situation not unlike the Chargers a couple years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or so.

 

[wadegarrett]

I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a mistake for the Browns. The Browns are in a "good" but difficult situation not unlike the Chargers a couple years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or so.

Signing Anderson is a mistake? Why do you think that?

 

[Banger]

I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a mistake for the Browns. The Browns are in a "good" but difficult situation not unlike the Chargers a couple years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or so.

Signing Anderson is a mistake? Why do you think that?

Because I'm not sure that he's that good. He came out of the gate great and petered down the stretch. He's got two of the top receivers in the league in Edwards and Winslow and a good developing line and a solid running game that can make an average QB look very good. That's what I think he is an average qb in a good situation. Over the 1st half of the year he had 2108 yards (264/gm) 19 tds (17+2 rush) and nearly 23 fpts/gm while the 2nd half of the year he had 1679 (210 yrds/gm) 13 tds (12+1) and 16 fpts/gm. A dramatic dropoff. Was it due to easy strength of schedule in the 1st half, not enough film/gameplanning by opposition? The best thing IMO that the Browns can do is trade him while his value is still high.

 

[Neo]

I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a mistake for the Browns. The Browns are in a "good" but difficult situation not unlike the Chargers a couple years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or so.

Signing Anderson is a mistake? Why do you think that?

Because I'm not sure that he's that good. He came out of the gate great and petered down the stretch. He's got two of the top receivers in the league in Edwards and Winslow and a good developing line and a solid running game that can make an average QB look very good. That's what I think he is and average qb in a good situation. Over the 1st half of the year he had 2108 yards (264/gm) 19 tds (17+2 rush) and nearly 23 fpts/gm while the 2nd half of the year he had 1679 (210 yrds/gm) 13 tds (12+1) and 16 fpts/gm. A dramatic dropoff. Was it due to easy strength of schedule in the 1st half, not enough film/gameplanning by opposition? The best thing IMO that the Browns can do is trade him while his value is still high.

The guy was a first year starter and is 24.....what he did in his first season is pretty damn good. People have crazy expectations sometimes.

 

[Banger]

I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a mistake for the Browns. The Browns are in a "good" but difficult situation not unlike the Chargers a couple years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or so.

Signing Anderson is a mistake? Why do you think that?

Because I'm not sure that he's that good. He came out of the gate great and petered down the stretch. He's got two of the top receivers in the league in Edwards and Winslow and a good developing line and a solid running game that can make an average QB look very good. That's what I think he is and average qb in a good situation. Over the 1st half of the year he had 2108 yards (264/gm) 19 tds (17+2 rush) and nearly 23 fpts/gm while the 2nd half of the year he had 1679 (210 yrds/gm) 13 tds (12+1) and 16 fpts/gm. A dramatic dropoff. Was it due to easy strength of schedule in the 1st half, not enough film/gameplanning by opposition? The best thing IMO that the Browns can do is trade him while his value is still high.

The guy was a first year starter and is 24.....what he did in his first season is pretty damn good. People have crazy expectations sometimes.

I don't disagree that he did well as a 1st year starter but he was probably in one of the best situations in the league as well (very good surrounding talent/horrendous defense = big time passing #'s). If they didn't have a better QB in the wings I wouldn't have the opinion that I do but I think Quinn could be excellent and they could use Anderson to help the team in other areas.

 

[Godsbrother]

As long as the money is not outrageous I think this is a solid move by the Browns.

 

[SayWhat?]

I find it comical that people attempting to diminish what Anderson did this past season point to Cleveland being one of the best situations in the league with due to superstars in Braylon and Winslow. The two haven't exactly been staples of consistency nor anything to write home about until the emergence of Anderson.

Granted, vastly improved o-line play and the emergence of a running game helped the Browns passing attack tremendously this past year. But to discount the type of season that Anderson had as a 24 year-old first year starter and pin all his success on the "supporting cast" is nearly laughable.

 

[MAC_32]

DA is good, but he's not Romo-good. All DA's performance this year did was show just how bad Chucky Frye was. I'm not going to say any QB would have thrived in that offense because that's not true, but an average one? Yes. I believe Brady Quinn is at worst an average QB, which is all I think DA is. The reasons have been debated ad nauseum, I fall in the look at his comp %, poor finish to the season, poor road game performance, high INT totals, and supporting cast [including Chud, don't forget him] crowd. We all have our opinions, we all have the infomration; some are interpreting the information one way, others another way, at this time I don't think you can fault the reasoning on either side of the coin, it may be time to just agree to disagree and move on. Me, I would rather gamble on Quinn and gather a 1st rounder + a pick/a player to use to shore up the defense than ride into the season with what we got now. Looking at the schedule, I highly doubt this team duplicates their 10-6 record from a year ago.

 

[Bobcat10]

Wouldn't a DA signed for 3 years at a reasonable amount of money make him easier to trade?

Would the Browns suffer cap penalties for trading him in this scenario?

 

[Banger]

DA is good, but he's not Romo-good. All DA's performance this year did was show just how bad Chucky Frye was. I'm not going to say any QB would have thrived in that offense because that's not true, but an average one? Yes. I believe Brady Quinn is at worst an average QB, which is all I think DA is. The reasons have been debated ad nauseum, I fall in the look at his comp %, poor finish to the season, poor road game performance, high INT totals, and supporting cast [including Chud, don't forget him] crowd. We all have our opinions, we all have the infomration; some are interpreting the information one way, others another way, at this time I don't think you can fault the reasoning on either side of the coin, it may be time to just agree to disagree and move on. Me, I would rather gamble on Quinn and gather a 1st rounder + a pick/a player to use to shore up the defense than ride into the season with what we got now. Looking at the schedule, I highly doubt this team duplicates their 10-6 record from a year ago.

You said it better than I did. I could certainly be wrong and Anderson could be a great QB for years to come but I didn't see anything "special" from him.

 

[thayman]

DA is good, but he's not Romo-good. All DA's performance this year did was show just how bad Chucky Frye was. I'm not going to say any QB would have thrived in that offense because that's not true, but an average one? Yes. I believe Brady Quinn is at worst an average QB, which is all I think DA is. The reasons have been debated ad nauseum, I fall in the look at his comp %, poor finish to the season, poor road game performance, high INT totals, and supporting cast [including Chud, don't forget him] crowd. We all have our opinions, we all have the infomration; some are interpreting the information one way, others another way, at this time I don't think you can fault the reasoning on either side of the coin, it may be time to just agree to disagree and move on. Me, I would rather gamble on Quinn and gather a 1st rounder + a pick/a player to use to shore up the defense than ride into the season with what we got now. Looking at the schedule, I highly doubt this team duplicates their 10-6 record from a year ago.

You said it better than I did. I could certainly be wrong and Anderson could be a great QB for years to come but I didn't see anything "special" from him.

But he is servicable, which to be honest is spectacular comapred to what Clevland has been dealing with at the QB position in past years. It looks to me as if the Browns aren't 100% sold on Quinn or Anderson, they are going to give it another year and see what shakes out.

 

[stbugs]

I find it comical that people attempting to diminish what Anderson did this past season point to Cleveland being one of the best situations in the league with due to superstars in Braylon and Winslow. The two haven't exactly been staples of consistency nor anything to write home about until the emergence of Anderson. Granted, vastly improved o-line play and the emergence of a running game helped the Browns passing attack tremendously this past year. But to discount the type of season that Anderson had as a 24 year-old first year starter and pin all his success on the "supporting cast" is nearly laughable.

While Anderson may not be great, how do we know that he won't get better? Take a look through history and list all of the best years for a first year starter and I would bet that Anderson's year is quite good. I wouldn't bet on him not improving as he gets more experience. Tom Brady and Manning both had their "career" years in their 7th season, so for some guys the development takes some time.Look at Arizona. Matt Leinart looked horrible compared to Warner, how do we know it isn't a similar situation. Fitz and Boldin have a much longer proven track record than Winslow and Edwards. Sure, they are good talents, but before 2007, no one would have said "hey, those two guys will make any QB look good." They traded up to grab Quinn because they thought they had a QB problem.Funny because above, someone said DA is good but not Romo-good. Why is Romo so phenomenal when compared to DA when Romo has Witten, TO, Marion Barber, a solid OL, Crayton, etc? I would say that TO and Witten have a much better combined track record than Edwards and Winslow. And just so people don't make an argument about it, I am not saying Romo isn't better (he was my flex starter with Brady as my #1, so I loved him this year), just saying that stating DA is not Romo-good is premature and is just giving Romo the benefit of the doubt that DA is not getting.Oh well, maybe DA will be a one year wonder, but he is a very young, inexperienced QB, not a Scott Mitchell or Erik Kramer veteran who just had a great year. Personally, I now have an even harder decision if DA signs in my 3 keeper league. Do I keep Brady for a 3rd (last year I can keep him) or DA for a 10th? While I think Brady will have a better year, it might not be that much better. We have a flex position, so if I really want Brady, I can still draft him early.

 

[Banger]

I find it comical that people attempting to diminish what Anderson did this past season point to Cleveland being one of the best situations in the league with due to superstars in Braylon and Winslow. The two haven't exactly been staples of consistency nor anything to write home about until the emergence of Anderson. Granted, vastly improved o-line play and the emergence of a running game helped the Browns passing attack tremendously this past year. But to discount the type of season that Anderson had as a 24 year-old first year starter and pin all his success on the "supporting cast" is nearly laughable.

While Anderson may not be great, how do we know that he won't get better? Take a look through history and list all of the best years for a first year starter and I would bet that Anderson's year is quite good. I wouldn't bet on him not improving as he gets more experience. Tom Brady and Manning both had their "career" years in their 7th season, so for some guys the development takes some time.Look at Arizona. Matt Leinart looked horrible compared to Warner, how do we know it isn't a similar situation. Fitz and Boldin have a much longer proven track record than Winslow and Edwards. Sure, they are good talents, but before 2007, no one would have said "hey, those two guys will make any QB look good." They traded up to grab Quinn because they thought they had a QB problem.Funny because above, someone said DA is good but not Romo-good. Why is Romo so phenomenal when compared to DA when Romo has Witten, TO, Marion Barber, a solid OL, Crayton, etc? I would say that TO and Witten have a much better combined track record than Edwards and Winslow. And just so people don't make an argument about it, I am not saying Romo isn't better (he was my flex starter with Brady as my #1, so I loved him this year), just saying that stating DA is not Romo-good is premature and is just giving Romo the benefit of the doubt that DA is not getting.Oh well, maybe DA will be a one year wonder, but he is a very young, inexperienced QB, not a Scott Mitchell or Erik Kramer veteran who just had a great year. Personally, I now have an even harder decision if DA signs in my 3 keeper league. Do I keep Brady for a 3rd (last year I can keep him) or DA for a 10th? While I think Brady will have a better year, it might not be that much better. We have a flex position, so if I really want Brady, I can still draft him early.

Something to keep in mind though is that this is Anderson's 3rd year in the league, it was just his 1st year starting. Aaron Brooks had a similar start. One thing that I can't get over is that if Anderson was so good and so clearly the guy, why in the heck was he 2nd string behind Frye going into the season? Anderson had been on the team for a couple years, they had seen him practice, they watched him all preseason and they couldn't determine that he was better than Frye? That's one thing that I can't reconcile in this whole situation. It's not like he was in competition with a vet like a Trent Green or something and the team was trying to do the right thing. It was a totally wide open competition and they were looking for someone to step up and Frye ended up starting the 1st game.I'm not trying to take anything away from Anderson and I'm happy that the Browns have turned the corner but I'm not sure that Quinn couldn't throw the ball up and let Braylon go get it. Time will tell.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I find it comical that people attempting to diminish what Anderson did this past season point to Cleveland being one of the best situations in the league with due to superstars in Braylon and Winslow. The two haven't exactly been staples of consistency nor anything to write home about until the emergence of Anderson.

Granted, vastly improved o-line play and the emergence of a running game helped the Browns passing attack tremendously this past year. But to discount the type of season that Anderson had as a 24 year-old first year starter and pin all his success on the "supporting cast" is nearly laughable.

While Anderson may not be great, how do we know that he won't get better? Take a look through history and list all of the best years for a first year starter and I would bet that Anderson's year is quite good. I wouldn't bet on him not improving as he gets more experience. Tom Brady and Manning both had their "career" years in their 7th season, so for some guys the development takes some time.

Look at Arizona. Matt Leinart looked horrible compared to Warner, how do we know it isn't a similar situation. Fitz and Boldin have a much longer proven track record than Winslow and Edwards. Sure, they are good talents, but before 2007, no one would have said "hey, those two guys will make any QB look good." They traded up to grab Quinn because they thought they had a QB problem.

Funny because above, someone said DA is good but not Romo-good. Why is Romo so phenomenal when compared to DA when Romo has Witten, TO, Marion Barber, a solid OL, Crayton, etc? I would say that TO and Witten have a much better combined track record than Edwards and Winslow. And just so people don't make an argument about it, I am not saying Romo isn't better (he was my flex starter with Brady as my #1, so I loved him this year), just saying that stating DA is not Romo-good is premature and is just giving Romo the benefit of the doubt that DA is not getting.

Oh well, maybe DA will be a one year wonder, but he is a very young, inexperienced QB, not a Scott Mitchell or Erik Kramer veteran who just had a great year. Personally, I now have an even harder decision if DA signs in my 3 keeper league. Do I keep Brady for a 3rd (last year I can keep him) or DA for a 10th? While I think Brady will have a better year, it might not be that much better. We have a flex position, so if I really want Brady, I can still draft him early.

The reason why the criticism seems fishy if the bias from different camps. Browns haters, Quinn lovers, and teams with lousy QB situations trying to devalue DA under the false assumption they could get him cheaper. Others in the non-biased camp have been spoon fed anti-DA biased facts and make no pretense their are probems with DA but not nearly as much as many have pointed out concerning DA. Full disclosure, I've nothing against Quinn and don't hold either in any fantasy league and furthermore I was a big draft Quinn pimp but I don't favor either of them. My bias/BS detector alarm has been ringing concerning many arguments against DA so this is how I see each of the five arguments.

5 assumptions/arguments agasint DA for BQ that I have issue with:

1- Their will be no QB production dropoff argument from DA to BQ.

Quinn hasn't started or played an entire preseason game let alone started or played one full NFL game in his career, he is untested. No one can possibly make the insane leap of faith to state unequivicably that their won't be any dropoff in production at QB. And it is not a leap of faith to doubt an untested QB will struggle and not put up Pro Bowl numbers. Reasonable Man argument or Occum's theory comes into play where logic says that their WILL be a dropoff if an un-tested/un-proven QB takes over for any club.

2 - The Chicken Little argument or the Browns had better get rid of DA NOW or they won't get anything of value for him.

Assumption DA has his highest value right now based largely on the truth that DA isn't accurate but they take that and run with that to declare that he can't possibly improve so trade him NOW. Young QBs tend to IMPROVE their overall game but their biggest improvement comes on completion percentages especially from their first year starting.

3 - The Quinn is better NOW argument.

The above is almost a bully/shouting tactic which has no value since it has no backing fact or reason. Quinn is better on some things to be sure but he isn't better and won't ever be better than DA is on other things but right now Quinn simply isn't better than DA, he just is not.

4 - The DA is a one-hit wonder argument.

This one has some stats behind it which are culled from the last month of the season. When weather is pointed out the people who have used this argument some, not all, refuse to ackowledge weather and stick fingers in their ears and go into the fetal postion saying blizzards and 35 mph winds don't matter. When the stats of opposing QBs in the same games are compared to DA to show that DA posted better stats in the same adverse conditions they scream louder. Early in the year no one respected the verticle passing attack. When defenses began to key on stopping the pass it opened up the running game. Passing stats suffered and then their was an undeniable weather component late in the year which did adversely impact the passing game and futher shifted emphais to the running game. And lets not forget, it wasn't just DA's first year starting it was also Rob Chudzinski's first year as OC. Some want to say Chud is a God and can't possibly make any mistakes so whatever game plan or plays he called in bad weather conditions can't be second guessed. Yeah he can be second guessed and he should have made different calls in bad weather conditions. I expect a reasonable improvement from DA and Chud. I also expect more of Chud's offense to be shown in the upcoming year so game day adjustments and game plans should improve.

5 - The, their isn't any negatives in Quinn's game that would adversely effect/impact the supporting cast and on the flip side DA has no special skills that would be missed by the supporting cast argument.

DA's arm is a HUGE weapon that many want to overlook and think it wouldn't be missed. DA can hit tight spaces/tiny corners that Quinn simply can't. DA's release is one of the best in the NFL. Quinn has a faster/better set up and his short game is superior but DA can and should improve his mechanics. On the flip side BQ won't ever have DA's arm. Out of every argument the differences that could take place on offense based on each QBs/strengths weakness' is the over riding concern that I don't know how exactly would impact the rest of the offense. I have no idea how switching QBs would mean but I don't just assume good without any sort of negatives.

If DA is resigned the Sporting News thinks it means the following:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=353943

... As the Browns start pulling the trigger on free agents and draft picks, they must decide whether they foresee a deep playoff run as a realistic 2008 goal. If so, there is a strong argument for re-signing running back Jamal Lewis and handing the quarterback keys to Derek Anderson. If not -- if the target year to peak is identified is 2009 -- Brady Quinn should get a shot at winning the QB job in training camp. Strong consideration also should be given to bringing in a younger feature back than Lewis.

Savage wants to resign DA.http://www.ffmastermind.com/os_view_article.php?id=211

Browns general manager Phil Savage commenting on the status of QB Derek Anderson.

''I think the deserving thing is to say that he's the starter going into next year.''

''Sitting here today and going into next year, we want to go into next season with both quarterbacks. I don't want to do anything that will derail us from having a potentially good season next year. The quickest way to do that is an injury to the quarterback position and not having anybody ready to go. Am I saying both quarterbacks are off the market for 2008? Yeah, I'm saying that, but obviously, some things have to be done before you can know that.''

... ''We want to make sure that we stay strong at that position for at least one more year.''

 

[Banger]

....a lot of good stuff...

Bracie-I don't have a horse in this race, don't have a bias, don't own either guy, don't hate the Browns, don't really care if Anderson stays with the team or not. All I have is my opinion based on what I've seen this year and granted I didn't watch every game but saw several due to owning Winslow in a league. Maybe you could answer this....One thing that I can't get over is that if Anderson was so good and so clearly the guy, why in the heck was he 2nd string behind Frye going into the season? Anderson had been on the team for a couple years, they had seen him practice, they watched him all preseason and they couldn't determine that he was better than Frye? That's one thing that I can't reconcile in this whole situation. It's not like he was in competition with a vet like a Trent Green or something and the team was trying to do the right thing. It was a totally wide open competition and they were looking for someone to step up and Frye ended up starting the 1st game. How? Why?I'm not trying to take anything away from Anderson and I'm happy that the Browns have turned the corner but I'm not sure that Quinn couldn't throw the ball up and let Braylon go get it. Time will tell.

 

[Bobcat10]

2 - The Chicken Little argument or the Browns had better get rid of DA NOW or they won't get anything of value for him.

Assumption DA has his highest value right now based largely on the truth that DA isn't accurate but they take that and run with that to declare that he can't possibly improve so trade him NOW. Young QBs tend to IMPROVE their overall game but their biggest improvement comes on completion percentages especially from their first year starting.

I'm thinking DA has his highest value now to the Browns because, if they don't sign him, he walks next year. Some other team will then have his peak value, assuming he gets better, but under his current contract his trade value for the Browns gets no higher.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

....a lot of good stuff...

Bracie-I don't have a horse in this race, don't have a bias, don't own either guy, don't hate the Browns, don't really care if Anderson stays with the team or not. All I have is my opinion based on what I've seen this year and granted I didn't watch every game but saw several due to owning Winslow in a league.

Maybe you could answer this....One thing that I can't get over is that if Anderson was so good and so clearly the guy, why in the heck was he 2nd string behind Frye going into the season? Anderson had been on the team for a couple years, they had seen him practice, they watched him all preseason and they couldn't determine that he was better than Frye? That's one thing that I can't reconcile in this whole situation. It's not like he was in competition with a vet like a Trent Green or something and the team was trying to do the right thing. It was a totally wide open competition and they were looking for someone to step up and Frye ended up starting the 1st game. How? Why?

I'm not trying to take anything away from Anderson and I'm happy that the Browns have turned the corner but I'm not sure that Quinn couldn't throw the ball up and let Braylon go get it. Time will tell.

Fair question that is answered by context.Context is that DA was a sixth round draft pick. Why if he was/is so good didn't he get drafted higher? Ofcourse the same thing could be asked of Tom Brady, both were sixth round draft selections. How could the entire NFL get it soo wrong?

Context is that Charlie Frye was starting and DA was on the bench and road the bench for over a year. Ofcourse the same thing could be asked of Tom Brady who road the bench in New England for over a year behind Drew Bledsoe.

Basically the entire NFL got it wrong on Tom Brady and if the NFL knew DA could start and produce he would have been selected prior to the sixth round. If an NFL guru like Bill Belichick could get it soo wrong with Tom Brady/Drew Bledsoe then I'll forgive Romeo Crennel getting it soo wrong with DA/Frye.

But I do have another reason. Frye isn't a pocket passer, he has happy feet and the Browns offensive line was never good until last year. Problem was last camp/preseason their their were injuries and the entire offensive line hadn't worked together as a unit untl the first game against Pittsburgh. In that game they were making a tight pocket but Frye simply didn't know how to use a pocket. DA is a pocket passer. He fist in perfectly with the Browns offensive line. Charlie Frye took SIX SACKS in less than two quarters of play and turned the ball over twice. Derek Anderson only took one sack the rest of the game and then the Browns offensive line gave up less than TWENTY SACKS for the entire year with Frye taking six of them in the first game.

Basically the coaches saw Frye running into pressure and his happy feet were ruining the perfect pass protection but the offensive line had never been together until that game so the coaches and Frye/DA hadn't seen that in camp or preseason.

One other aspect that adversely effected all of the Browns QBs was the new playbook installed by OC Rob Chudzinski. Both Frye and DA struggled with the playbook but reportedly Quinn was picking it up quickly but he blew it by hodling out. So their were specific reasons and then on a larger picture you have to put things into proper context.

 

[Banger]

....a lot of good stuff...

Bracie-I don't have a horse in this race, don't have a bias, don't own either guy, don't hate the Browns, don't really care if Anderson stays with the team or not. All I have is my opinion based on what I've seen this year and granted I didn't watch every game but saw several due to owning Winslow in a league.

Maybe you could answer this....One thing that I can't get over is that if Anderson was so good and so clearly the guy, why in the heck was he 2nd string behind Frye going into the season? Anderson had been on the team for a couple years, they had seen him practice, they watched him all preseason and they couldn't determine that he was better than Frye? That's one thing that I can't reconcile in this whole situation. It's not like he was in competition with a vet like a Trent Green or something and the team was trying to do the right thing. It was a totally wide open competition and they were looking for someone to step up and Frye ended up starting the 1st game. How? Why?

I'm not trying to take anything away from Anderson and I'm happy that the Browns have turned the corner but I'm not sure that Quinn couldn't throw the ball up and let Braylon go get it. Time will tell.

Fair question that is answered by context.Context is that DA was a sixth round draft pick. Why if he was/is so good didn't he get drafted higher? Ofcourse the same thing could be asked of Tom Brady, both were sixth round draft selections. How could the entire NFL get it soo wrong?

Context is that Charlie Frye was starting and DA was on the bench and road the bench for over a year. Ofcourse the same thing could be asked of Tom Brady who road the bench in New England for over a year behind Drew Bledsoe.

Basically the entire NFL got it wrong on Tom Brady and if the NFL knew DA could start and produce he would have been selected prior to the sixth round. If an NFL guru like Bill Belichick could get it soo wrong with Tom Brady/Drew Bledsoe then I'll forgive Romeo Crennel getting it soo wrong with DA/Frye.

But I do have another reason. Frye isn't a pocket passer, he has happy feet and the Browns offensive line was never good until last year. Problem was last camp/preseason their their were injuries and the entire offensive line hadn't worked together as a unit untl the first game against Pittsburgh. In that game they were making a tight pocket but Frye simply didn't know how to use a pocket. DA is a pocket passer. He fist in perfectly with the Browns offensive line. Charlie Frye took SIX SACKS in less than two quarters of play and turned the ball over twice. Derek Anderson only took one sack the rest of the game and then the Browns offensive line gave up less than TWENTY SACKS for the entire year with Frye taking six of them in the first game.

Basically the coaches saw Frye running into pressure and his happy feet were ruining the perfect pass protection but the offensive line had never been together until that game so the coaches and Frye/DA hadn't seen that in camp or preseason.

One other aspect that adversely effected all of the Browns QBs was the new playbook installed by OC Rob Chudzinski. Both Frye and DA struggled with the playbook but reportedly Quinn was picking it up quickly but he blew it by hodling out. So their were specific reasons and then on a larger picture you have to put things into proper context.

I don't really care that he was drafted in the 6th and the Brady/Bledsoe comparison is apples/oranges to DA's situation. The pocket passer comparison, new offense/playbook difficulties and new O-line make perfect sense. Good post.I still don't think he's a difference maker and benefits greatly by a MUCH improved line and the best WR/TE tandem in the game. To each his own.

DA = HOF 201???

 

[Bracie Smathers]

2 - The Chicken Little argument or the Browns had better get rid of DA NOW or they won't get anything of value for him.

Assumption DA has his highest value right now based largely on the truth that DA isn't accurate but they take that and run with that to declare that he can't possibly improve so trade him NOW. Young QBs tend to IMPROVE their overall game but their biggest improvement comes on completion percentages especially from their first year starting.

I'm thinking DA has his highest value now to the Browns because, if they don't sign him, he walks next year. Some other team will then have his peak value, assuming he gets better, but under his current contract his trade value for the Browns gets no higher.

If another team signs him away they get his reasonably expected improvement and a solid starting QB for what could be a bargain basement price so I don't buy that DA's value is at a peek for the Browns right now. I see him getting resigned and starting next year which would set the Browns up for a two-fold ability to reap the reasonably expected imrovements in his game.1 - They get his improved play and then make him more attractive/valuable to others who might bid for him and then would have to deal solely on the Browns terms.

2 - Quinn's contract stipulates he gets $8 million in start incentives if he starts more than ten games next year. The Browns would be insane to gift Quinn the starting job and blow $8 million in cap dollars for 09. INSANE unless BQ BLOWS DA out of the water and if that happens and if the Browns have DA under contract I'd be happy to keep em both or see what offers DA would garner.

I expect a reasonable improvement in DA's game. The Browns are very fair in contract dealings and I anticipate DA will resign and the team will reap a two-fold benefit from resigning DA and sitting Quinn for at very least the first half of next season and then things will really heat up in the QB derby. I don't think the front office would be foolish enough to start Quinn unless he just blows the doors off of DA in camp and I don't anticipate that happening. DA folded when faced with Frye but Frye was the incumbent and DA seemed to defer to him. I see just the opposite with DA to BQ. DA was undefeated at home last year. He upped his game when faced with any sort of BQ chants/bias from the home fans. He got energized by it and I think he's going to go toe-to-toe with Quinn in camp next year and that the team won't end up forfieting $8 million in 09 dollars.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'd take my chances with a 24 year old Pro Bowl QB over a 23 year old mid-first round pick any day of the week.

 

[MAC_32]

I find it comical that people attempting to diminish what Anderson did this past season point to Cleveland being one of the best situations in the league with due to superstars in Braylon and Winslow. The two haven't exactly been staples of consistency nor anything to write home about until the emergence of Anderson.

Granted, vastly improved o-line play and the emergence of a running game helped the Browns passing attack tremendously this past year. But to discount the type of season that Anderson had as a 24 year-old first year starter and pin all his success on the "supporting cast" is nearly laughable.

While Anderson may not be great, how do we know that he won't get better? Take a look through history and list all of the best years for a first year starter and I would bet that Anderson's year is quite good. I wouldn't bet on him not improving as he gets more experience. Tom Brady and Manning both had their "career" years in their 7th season, so for some guys the development takes some time.

Look at Arizona. Matt Leinart looked horrible compared to Warner, how do we know it isn't a similar situation. Fitz and Boldin have a much longer proven track record than Winslow and Edwards. Sure, they are good talents, but before 2007, no one would have said "hey, those two guys will make any QB look good." They traded up to grab Quinn because they thought they had a QB problem.

Funny because above, someone said DA is good but not Romo-good. Why is Romo so phenomenal when compared to DA when Romo has Witten, TO, Marion Barber, a solid OL, Crayton, etc? I would say that TO and Witten have a much better combined track record than Edwards and Winslow. And just so people don't make an argument about it, I am not saying Romo isn't better (he was my flex starter with Brady as my #1, so I loved him this year), just saying that stating DA is not Romo-good is premature and is just giving Romo the benefit of the doubt that DA is not getting.

Oh well, maybe DA will be a one year wonder, but he is a very young, inexperienced QB, not a Scott Mitchell or Erik Kramer veteran who just had a great year. Personally, I now have an even harder decision if DA signs in my 3 keeper league. Do I keep Brady for a 3rd (last year I can keep him) or DA for a 10th? While I think Brady will have a better year, it might not be that much better. We have a flex position, so if I really want Brady, I can still draft him early.

Something to keep in mind though is that this is Anderson's 3rd year in the league, it was just his 1st year starting. Aaron Brooks had a similar start. One thing that I can't get over is that if Anderson was so good and so clearly the guy, why in the heck was he 2nd string behind Frye going into the season? Anderson had been on the team for a couple years, they had seen him practice, they watched him all preseason and they couldn't determine that he was better than Frye? That's one thing that I can't reconcile in this whole situation. It's not like he was in competition with a vet like a Trent Green or something and the team was trying to do the right thing. It was a totally wide open competition and they were looking for someone to step up and Frye ended up starting the 1st game.I'm not trying to take anything away from Anderson and I'm happy that the Browns have turned the corner but I'm not sure that Quinn couldn't throw the ball up and let Braylon go get it. Time will tell.

DA looked that bad in August. He was almost cut he was so bad. The only reason he stayed, says the rumors floating around Cleveland, was because Romeo did not want Chucky as his starter; that's why DA was rumored to have the leg up entering camp. Then he went out and laid an egg. DA stayed on the squad only because a] the organization thought they could drop Dorsey and re-sign him whereas they knew if the sent DA to waivers that he wouldn't make it through and b] Frye didn't look that much better. There was good reason the leash was so short on Chucky week 1, he won the competition by default. As it turns out Quinn's holdout was a blessing in disguise because if he had been there day 1 and played the way he did in the portion of training camp in which he was there for the starting job would have been his.There's a theory being tossed around that the kid is simply a slow learner. He was cut by Baltimore largely because he wasn't getting the offense but he had enough upside that they wanted to stash him on the practice squad, he took time to gel in Cleveland and looked bad in a trial run in 06, he looked awful in camp in Chud's new system before breaking out, and then he looked woeful in the pro bowl in a system he didn't know well and hadn't had time to work with. It makes sense, not saying I believe it or not just saying it's something that's going to be sitting in the back of my mind until proven one way or the other.

 

[gianmarco]

I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a mistake for the Browns. The Browns are in a "good" but difficult situation not unlike the Chargers a couple years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or so.

Signing Anderson is a mistake? Why do you think that?

Because I'm not sure that he's that good. He came out of the gate great and petered down the stretch. He's got two of the top receivers in the league in Edwards and Winslow and a good developing line and a solid running game that can make an average QB look very good. That's what I think he is an average qb in a good situation. Over the 1st half of the year he had 2108 yards (264/gm) 19 tds (17+2 rush) and nearly 23 fpts/gm while the 2nd half of the year he had 1679 (210 yrds/gm) 13 tds (12+1) and 16 fpts/gm. A dramatic dropoff. Was it due to easy strength of schedule in the 1st half, not enough film/gameplanning by opposition? The best thing IMO that the Browns can do is trade him while his value is still high.

Last I checked, Edwards and Winslow will be there next year as well. Why would it be a knock on the guy for having 2 good receivers and doing well with them, especially when they are all set to return next year? That should be a good thing.Also, his 2nd half stats of ONLY 1679 yds and 13 TDs would project to about 3400 yds and 26 TDs. And that was his bad half of the year. Again, last I checked, 3400/26 is something I'll take from most any QB. I don't see how those #'s are a knock on him with the exception of they weren't as good as his blistering start for the 1st 8 games.

Now, I'm not saying Anderson is all that or that he's a sure thing to do well, but I think he's definitely earned the benefit of the doubt given his age and experience and 1st year performance. I also think some of the reasons in this thread for why he won't succeed (i.e., he has good WR's?) are a little silly. The only reason I would consider something like the quality of his WR's being a downside is if they weren't going to return the following the year. THAT would be cause for concern. There are really no indications that he couldn't or shouldn't repeat last year's performance with the exception of the good ole "regression to the mean".

 

[Moniker]

I'd take my chances with a 24 year old Pro Bowl QB over a 23 year old mid-first round pick any day of the week.

You didn't watch DA play every week, then.He is merely average, Quinn can't be any worse.DA lost games by himself for Cleveland this year while winning none of them by himself. He can't hit Winslow or Edwards in stride and if he wasn't throwing to Pro-Bowlers who dive/leap/go down for the ball on almost every throw DA's numbers that actually count would be WAY worse than they are already.I'd be more than happy to tender him and hope CHI/ATL makes an offer for him.

 

[Banger]

I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a mistake for the Browns. The Browns are in a "good" but difficult situation not unlike the Chargers a couple years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or so.

Signing Anderson is a mistake? Why do you think that?

Because I'm not sure that he's that good. He came out of the gate great and petered down the stretch. He's got two of the top receivers in the league in Edwards and Winslow and a good developing line and a solid running game that can make an average QB look very good. That's what I think he is an average qb in a good situation. Over the 1st half of the year he had 2108 yards (264/gm) 19 tds (17+2 rush) and nearly 23 fpts/gm while the 2nd half of the year he had 1679 (210 yrds/gm) 13 tds (12+1) and 16 fpts/gm. A dramatic dropoff. Was it due to easy strength of schedule in the 1st half, not enough film/gameplanning by opposition? The best thing IMO that the Browns can do is trade him while his value is still high.

Last I checked, Edwards and Winslow will be there next year as well. Why would it be a knock on the guy for having 2 good receivers and doing well with them, especially when they are all set to return next year? That should be a good thing.Also, his 2nd half stats of ONLY 1679 yds and 13 TDs would project to about 3400 yds and 26 TDs. And that was his bad half of the year. Again, last I checked, 3400/26 is something I'll take from most any QB. I don't see how those #'s are a knock on him with the exception of they weren't as good as his blistering start for the 1st 8 games.

Now, I'm not saying Anderson is all that or that he's a sure thing to do well, but I think he's definitely earned the benefit of the doubt given his age and experience and 1st year performance. I also think some of the reasons in this thread for why he won't succeed (i.e., he has good WR's?) are a little silly. The only reason I would consider something like the quality of his WR's being a downside is if they weren't going to return the following the year. THAT would be cause for concern. There are really no indications that he couldn't or shouldn't repeat last year's performance with the exception of the good ole "regression to the mean".

I think you are misreading what I meant. I'm not saying that he'll be bad because he has two good wr's, quite the opposite. My contention is that he's an average QB in a very good situation (wow, they've come a long way in a year) and that a better QB (possibly Quinn) could be great. I think they should test ride him for another year using the RFA tag but not lock him up to a long term deal yet.

 

[Bobcat10]

2 - The Chicken Little argument or the Browns had better get rid of DA NOW or they won't get anything of value for him.

Assumption DA has his highest value right now based largely on the truth that DA isn't accurate but they take that and run with that to declare that he can't possibly improve so trade him NOW. Young QBs tend to IMPROVE their overall game but their biggest improvement comes on completion percentages especially from their first year starting.

I'm thinking DA has his highest value now to the Browns because, if they don't sign him, he walks next year. Some other team will then have his peak value, assuming he gets better, but under his current contract his trade value for the Browns gets no higher.

If another team signs him away they get his reasonably expected improvement and a solid starting QB for what could be a bargain basement price so I don't buy that DA's value is at a peek for the Browns right now. I see him getting resigned and starting next year which would set the Browns up for a two-fold ability to reap the reasonably expected imrovements in his game.1 - They get his improved play and then make him more attractive/valuable to others who might bid for him and then would have to deal solely on the Browns terms.

2 - Quinn's contract stipulates he gets $8 million in start incentives if he starts more than ten games next year. The Browns would be insane to gift Quinn the starting job and blow $8 million in cap dollars for 09. INSANE unless BQ BLOWS DA out of the water and if that happens and if the Browns have DA under contract I'd be happy to keep em both or see what offers DA would garner.

I expect a reasonable improvement in DA's game. The Browns are very fair in contract dealings and I anticipate DA will resign and the team will reap a two-fold benefit from resigning DA and sitting Quinn for at very least the first half of next season and then things will really heat up in the QB derby. I don't think the front office would be foolish enough to start Quinn unless he just blows the doors off of DA in camp and I don't anticipate that happening. DA folded when faced with Frye but Frye was the incumbent and DA seemed to defer to him. I see just the opposite with DA to BQ. DA was undefeated at home last year. He upped his game when faced with any sort of BQ chants/bias from the home fans. He got energized by it and I think he's going to go toe-to-toe with Quinn in camp next year and that the team won't end up forfieting $8 million in 09 dollars.

I just don't think you understand what I'm saying. Per your bold re: my post, they get his improved play on a one year contract, who would be dealing on the Browns terms when DA is UFA? Makes no sense.Also, are you implying that the Browns traded for Quinn on draft day, signed him to the deal he has, with the intentions of sitting him until at least year 3 (or until 9 games left this coming year)?

 

[stbugs]

....a lot of good stuff...

Bracie-I don't have a horse in this race, don't have a bias, don't own either guy, don't hate the Browns, don't really care if Anderson stays with the team or not. All I have is my opinion based on what I've seen this year and granted I didn't watch every game but saw several due to owning Winslow in a league.

Maybe you could answer this....One thing that I can't get over is that if Anderson was so good and so clearly the guy, why in the heck was he 2nd string behind Frye going into the season? Anderson had been on the team for a couple years, they had seen him practice, they watched him all preseason and they couldn't determine that he was better than Frye? That's one thing that I can't reconcile in this whole situation. It's not like he was in competition with a vet like a Trent Green or something and the team was trying to do the right thing. It was a totally wide open competition and they were looking for someone to step up and Frye ended up starting the 1st game. How? Why?

I'm not trying to take anything away from Anderson and I'm happy that the Browns have turned the corner but I'm not sure that Quinn couldn't throw the ball up and let Braylon go get it. Time will tell.

Fair question that is answered by context.Context is that DA was a sixth round draft pick. Why if he was/is so good didn't he get drafted higher? Ofcourse the same thing could be asked of Tom Brady, both were sixth round draft selections. How could the entire NFL get it soo wrong?

Context is that Charlie Frye was starting and DA was on the bench and road the bench for over a year. Ofcourse the same thing could be asked of Tom Brady who road the bench in New England for over a year behind Drew Bledsoe.

Basically the entire NFL got it wrong on Tom Brady and if the NFL knew DA could start and produce he would have been selected prior to the sixth round. If an NFL guru like Bill Belichick could get it soo wrong with Tom Brady/Drew Bledsoe then I'll forgive Romeo Crennel getting it soo wrong with DA/Frye.

But I do have another reason. Frye isn't a pocket passer, he has happy feet and the Browns offensive line was never good until last year. Problem was last camp/preseason their their were injuries and the entire offensive line hadn't worked together as a unit untl the first game against Pittsburgh. In that game they were making a tight pocket but Frye simply didn't know how to use a pocket. DA is a pocket passer. He fist in perfectly with the Browns offensive line. Charlie Frye took SIX SACKS in less than two quarters of play and turned the ball over twice. Derek Anderson only took one sack the rest of the game and then the Browns offensive line gave up less than TWENTY SACKS for the entire year with Frye taking six of them in the first game.

Basically the coaches saw Frye running into pressure and his happy feet were ruining the perfect pass protection but the offensive line had never been together until that game so the coaches and Frye/DA hadn't seen that in camp or preseason.

One other aspect that adversely effected all of the Browns QBs was the new playbook installed by OC Rob Chudzinski. Both Frye and DA struggled with the playbook but reportedly Quinn was picking it up quickly but he blew it by hodling out. So their were specific reasons and then on a larger picture you have to put things into proper context.

I don't really care that he was drafted in the 6th and the Brady/Bledsoe comparison is apples/oranges to DA's situation. The pocket passer comparison, new offense/playbook difficulties and new O-line make perfect sense. Good post.I still don't think he's a difference maker and benefits greatly by a MUCH improved line and the best WR/TE tandem in the game. To each his own.

DA = HOF 201???

I hate whenever I see a "don't draft a QB in the 1st" argument where someone throws out Brady when there are a zillion more examples of 1st round QBs that are great, like Manning, Elway, Marino, etc. Throwing out one example gets silly, although in this case DA actually performed like Brady did when Brady took over for Bledsoe. Brady is much, much better IMHO, but DA was a pro-bowl QB in his first year starting and I think that is a very, very good year.

I do think however that posts above that say "Quinn can't be any worse" are doing the same thing because people will probably point to Rivers/Brees as the example.

I hope Cleveland fans who want to dump DA and start Quinn are more than willing to take a chance on going back to 5-11. DA and the Browns were 10-6 and vastly improved over 2006 and previous years. Maybe Quinn is better, but if the Browns were 100% (like the Bengals with Palmer), then they wouldn't be stating that DA will be the starter for 2008 and maybe a couple years after that.

Do Cleveland fans forget that most of the pundits picked them to finish at the bottom of the league for 2007? Everyone chided them on their trade up for Quinn because they figured Dallas would get McFadden with only that pick. Well, ironically, DA's play made the trade up for Quinn look better because they didn't finish 4-12 or 5-11.

By the way, I find it funny that people point to DA losing games by himself, which is true, yet they don't mention how they went 5-0 in games where his passer rating was 96.5+. In those 5 games, they averaged @ 35 points per game and there worst points scored in those 5 games was 27. In 2006, they had 1 game over 25 points which was a 31-28 win over KC. Guess what, in there best offensive game of 2006, Anderson came in for Frye and was 12-21 for 171 and 2 TDs in the second half to beat a KC team that made the playoffs. So even in 2006, where DA wasn't the starter, he still was responsible for their best offensive game. Oh, also note that Winslow and Edwards were the #1 and #2 receivers in 2006 as well, but they weren't the best WR/TE tandem 2006.

Anyway, I am not blind, Quinn could easily take over and yes, I do think Edwards/Winslow are very, very good as Edwards is my #1 keeper. I just think that people are putting their blinders on if they think that getting picks for DA and starting Quinn is a guaranteed way to improve Cleveland.

 

[Football Jones]

I originally thought DA would be moved. Not anymore. Looks like they're going to sign DA, annoint him their starter, then let it play out. Nothing wrong with that. The key is signing DA to a reasonable contract. If so, it's a great move, IMO. Will Quinn ever be the starting QB for the Browns? Very likely, but how soon depends on DA's play. Could be sometime next season or as late as the first game of 2011 (which is the last year of Quinn's contract).

 

[amnesiac]

Wouldn't a DA signed for 3 years at a reasonable amount of money make him easier to trade? Would the Browns suffer cap penalties for trading him in this scenario?

this is exactly what i was wondering.

 

[MAC_32]

I hope Cleveland fans who want to dump DA and start Quinn are more than willing to take a chance on going back to 5-11. I just think that people are putting their blinders on if they think that getting picks for DA and starting Quinn is a guaranteed way to improve Cleveland.

I would gladly take that risk. I just don't see a championship caliber team with DA under center, I see a good-but-not-great team. Are you content with being good or would you rather shoot for the title? I'm the latter. The blinders aren't on, it's what I think is best for the team. Like I said previously, those on the DA is the man side of things aren't going to convince the trade DA for picks crowd they're wrong or vice versa. The information out there is known, has been discussed, and different opinions have been formed. I don't think most Browns fans are throwing DA under the bus, we just feel Quinn is capable of performing similarly as DA. Based on what? He has the same skillset as DA, will likely be a more accurate passer, is more capable on the run if need be but is still a pocket passer - unlike Chucky, and how quickly he picked up the playbook can't be ignored. DA was awful in camp because he took a while to adjust to the playbook. Quinn got it before either Chucky or DA did and he showed up two weeks late. I don't question this kid's mental ability for the game.I'm not saying Quinn is definitely better, I'm saying he has more upside, I think at worst he'll perform to DA's 07 level, and on top of all that we get valuable draft picks to use on our weak defense. Could I be wrong about Quinn? Absolutely, but I am very confident if we do not make a move we will just be another average team in 08. I'd rather take a gamble and shoot for a division title with the possibility of regression than maintain being average.

 

[MAC_32]

Wouldn't a DA signed for 3 years at a reasonable amount of money make him easier to trade? Would the Browns suffer cap penalties for trading him in this scenario?

this is exactly what i was wondering.

The way the NFL is structured cap hits would be applied, sign and trades don't happen in the NFL like they do in other sports. If DA is signed for 3 years he will be a Brown in 08 unless some team makes an offer for him that would justify the cap hit, that is very unlikely.

 

[amnesiac]

Wouldn't a DA signed for 3 years at a reasonable amount of money make him easier to trade? Would the Browns suffer cap penalties for trading him in this scenario?

this is exactly what i was wondering.

The way the NFL is structured cap hits would be applied, sign and trades don't happen in the NFL like they do in other sports. If DA is signed for 3 years he will be a Brown in 08 unless some team makes an offer for him that would justify the cap hit, that is very unlikely.

hmm.i really think if DA wants to be a starter, he should be pushing for a trade. there is no way Quinn is sitting on the bench for the rest of his contract.

 

[massraider]

I would like to know what people think DA would fetch in trade.

I think the Browns are doing the right thing with Anderson, by doing a 3 year deal. My guess is, there'll be a decent guarantee, and a roster bonus in the third year, so if he isn't 'the man' they are forced to dump him. Which probably gives him two years to prove he is the starter.

If he turns out to be a legit starter, the occasional Pro Bowler-type, then who cares about Quinn? Quinn isn't expensive, he was a late first rounder. They can keep him, try and trade him, whatever.

The fact that Quinn was a first-rounder shouldn't matter at this point. It should just be, "who gives the team the better chance to win?"

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Update on negotiations per Mary Cay Cabot from the PD. \

Browns trying to get something done but talks have stalled and Savage isn't sure he'll get it done prior to the start of FA. Also he said he WON'T match any blockbuster deals and he has no idea of the interest of other teams since they don't tell him.

Pace slows in talks with Anderson

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot

February 23, 2008 00:10AM

Categories: Browns

Indianapolis - Following a meeting with Derek Anderson's agents here Thursday night, Browns General Manager Phil Savage sounded a little less certain Friday that he can get Anderson signed before he becomes a restricted free agent next week.

... "We have a week left until free agency begins. I know that people are considering that to be a hard deadline. [but] we can still put the tender on him and continue to talk if that's something they want to do. Our preference is to get it done before the free agency period begins. But at this point I'm not sure that's going to happen one way or the other. We've obviously got alternatives planned for a lot of different things that can happen between now and next week and once free agency begins next Friday."

The Browns must either sign Anderson by 4 p.m. Thursday or tender him a one-year deal as a restricted free agent. They will give him the high tender of $2.562 million, meaning a team would have to give the Browns a first- and third-round pick if they sign him.

Savage also indicated Friday that the Browns wouldn't match a long-term blockbuster offer.

... Savage said the length of the deal is the biggest sticking point, followed by the money.

"There's some quarterbacks out there in recent history that got six-year deals, and we're trying to do something a little bit unique," he said. "Because of the makeup of our team right now, we feel like a three-year agreement is one that would work for both sides because Derek is 24 years old. He could play three years and then potentially hit free agency again where the money could be $70 [million] or $80 million. So we have our reasons and they have theirs."

As for the interest around the NFL in Anderson, Savage said: "I don't know. Obviously no one is going to tell me what their interest is. If it is, it will be under the radar. I think we'd certainly find out if we can't get this contract done before next Thursday."

He also admitted he didn't know if Anderson and Brady Quinn could co-exist for another year.

"This is an usual one because we're one of the few teams out there with two quarterbacks under the age of 25. We like them both," Savage said.

If Anderson does become available, he could be a hot commodity. Last off-season, Falcons restricted free agent Matt Schaub received a six-year, $48 million deal from Houston despite having started only four games in his career. Romo started for 1 seasons before hitting his jackpot.

There are about 8-12 NFL teams with issues this who could be interested in Anderson. The teams include Baltimore, Chicago, Carolina, Atlanta, Minnesota, Kansas City, San Francisco, the Jets, Miami and Washington.

... If it doesn't get done before Thursday, Anderson's agents might have a good idea that there's a better offer out there.

__________________

 

[JPeso]

Wouldn't a DA signed for 3 years at a reasonable amount of money make him easier to trade? Would the Browns suffer cap penalties for trading him in this scenario?

this is exactly what i was wondering.

The way the NFL is structured cap hits would be applied, sign and trades don't happen in the NFL like they do in other sports. If DA is signed for 3 years he will be a Brown in 08 unless some team makes an offer for him that would justify the cap hit, that is very unlikely.

hmm.i really think if DA wants to be a starter, he should be pushing for a trade. there is no way Quinn is sitting on the bench for the rest of his contract.

Back in Baltimore?

 

[wadegarrett]

From Terry Pluto in Sunday's Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Right now, the Anderson talks are on hold. Yes, they are talking. But Anderson's agents seem to think they can get a major five- to six-year deal from someone, while the Browns are interested in a three-year contract much like what they gave Jamal Lewis. Anderson may have to go into the free-agent period beginning Friday to see if the Browns' offer is the best he can do.

Will be interesting to see if any team offers him a 5-6 year deal.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished.

I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished. I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:

Year	 Age  Tm  Cmp  Att  Cmp%  Yds   TD  TD%  Int  Int%  Y/A  AY/A  QBR   Sk  Yds  NY/A  ANY/A  Sk%2007	  24  CLE 298  527  56.5  3787  29  5.5  19   3.6   7.2  6.1   82.5  14  109  6.8   5.8	2.6xxxx	  24  xxx 280  469  59.7  3513  18  3.8  23   4.9   7.5  5.7   75.4  46  280  6.3   4.6	8.9

Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

 

[Banger]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished. I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:

Year	 Age  Tm  Cmp  Att  Cmp%  Yds   TD  TD%  Int  Int%  Y/A  AY/A  QBR   Sk  Yds  NY/A  ANY/A  Sk%2007	  24  CLE 298  527  56.5  3787  29  5.5  19   3.6   7.2  6.1   82.5  14  109  6.8   5.8	2.6xxxx	  24  xxx 280  469  59.7  3513  18  3.8  23   4.9   7.5  5.7   75.4  46  280  6.3   4.6	8.9

Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

I'd rather have Big Ben by a mile.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished. I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:

Year	 Age  Tm  Cmp  Att  Cmp%  Yds   TD  TD%  Int  Int%  Y/A  AY/A  QBR   Sk  Yds  NY/A  ANY/A  Sk%2007	  24  CLE 298  527  56.5  3787  29  5.5  19   3.6   7.2  6.1   82.5  14  109  6.8   5.8	2.6xxxx	  24  xxx 280  469  59.7  3513  18  3.8  23   4.9   7.5  5.7   75.4  46  280  6.3   4.6	8.9

Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

Compare him to QB xxxx at age 23.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished.

I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:
Year Age Tm Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A AY/A QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%2007 24 CLE 298 527 56.5 3787 29 5.5 19 3.6 7.2 6.1 82.5 14 109 6.8 5.8 2.6xxxx 24 xxx 280 469 59.7 3513 18 3.8 23 4.9 7.5 5.7 75.4 46 280 6.3 4.6 8.9Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

Compare him to QB xxxx at age 23.

That is exactly what Chase did EG.The completion percentage argument is weak for a guy in his first year.

Peyton Manning | 18 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp

1998 575/326

Comp %

56.7

1999 533/331 62.1

QBs tend to make their BIGGEST improvements in completion percentages and also in cutting back on mistakes, i.e., INTs and taking sacks from their first to second year's starting. Peyton's other stats look like DA outside of DA's superior INT mark in comparison.

Yds Yd/A TDs Int Rating

3739 6.5 26 28 71.2

Carson Palmer | 9 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp Comp %

2004 432.263 60.9

2005 509/345 67.8

Palmer's first year TD/INT numbers TD 18 INT 18

Matt Hasselbeck | 8 | QB

2001 Sea 321/176 54.8

2002 Sea 419/267 63.7

Hass' TD INT numbers his first year, thirteen starts compared with DA's fifteen. TD 7 INT 8

David Garrard | 9 | QB

2006 Jac 11 241/145 60.2

2007 Jac 12 325/208 64.0

Garrard's TD/INT numbers 10 and 9

Donovan McNabb | 5 | QB

1999 Phi 216/106 49.1

2000 Phi 569/330 58.0

TD/INT numbers first year = 8, 7

Eli Manning | 10 | QB

2004 NYG only 9 games 197/95 48.2

2005 NYG 16 games 557/294 52.8

Also Eli's 05 numbers are very similiar to DA's but still fall shy on TDs especially considering DA only had fifteen starts and then DA's completion percent beat ELI in his first two years. 3762 TD 24 INT 17

2006 NYG 522.301 57.7

Jay Cutler | 6 | QB

2006 Den (ONLY 5 starts) 137/81 59.1 1001 TD 9 INT 5

2007 Den 16 467/297 63.6

Yards 3497 TD 20 INT 14

The above are guys who are considered BETTER than DA but whose numbers don't compare on TD/INT or yardage. They all had low or average completion percentages in their first years and they all made huge strides or significant improvements in completion percentages from their first to second years.

Other QBs who came out of the gates with high completion percentages sometimes went down, ahem, Big Ben took a big tumble from his first to second years. Others who had fantastic completion percentages didn't surpass DA on TDs or yardage numbers like Brady or Farve but both came into the league with high completion numbers but both play/played in systems that were more WC or were WC rather than an aggressive verticle stretch offense that Rob Chudzinski executes in Cleveland.

You and others might overlook the long standing evidence of QBs who start early in their careers and start out with poor or average completion precentages but then make significant strides their second years but I don't. I look for a bump in completion percentage by DA if he's the Browns starting QB in 08 and right now he's the starter for 08 so that is what I expect.

Oh and I didn't bother posting the reams and reams of QBs who had poor completion percentages and poor TD/INT yardage numbers and who went onto fail. DA's TD and yardage numbers rank fourth in NFL history for a QB of his age. THAT IS SIGNIFICANT whether you or others want to acknowledge that or not. Also the expectant imporovement in completion percentage is another thing that many want to overlook and then I'd have to refer to bias as the basis for overlooking historic high TD/average per completion numbers and reasonable improvement in accuracy.

 

[stbugs]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished. I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:

Year	 Age  Tm  Cmp  Att  Cmp%  Yds   TD  TD%  Int  Int%  Y/A  AY/A  QBR   Sk  Yds  NY/A  ANY/A  Sk%2007	  24  CLE 298  527  56.5  3787  29  5.5  19   3.6   7.2  6.1   82.5  14  109  6.8   5.8	2.6xxxx	  24  xxx 280  469  59.7  3513  18  3.8  23   4.9   7.5  5.7   75.4  46  280  6.3   4.6	8.9

Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

I'd rather have Big Ben by a mile.

Wow, you would rather have a high 1st round pick who has been a starting QB for 4 years already? Shocking.I just don't understand the dissing of DA right now. He has started 1 year in the league and his 1 year was pretty damn good. How EG can say he is average is beyond me. He may get worse, but based on most every long term starting QB in NFL history, their 1st year is NOT a good indicator of their normal. When a guy makes it to the pro-bowl in his first year as a starter, that may be a good indicator that they are not average.Look at Big Ben's career. He had his career year in 2007 in his 4th year as a starter. I am not going to bash him at all because I think he is a good QB and will be for many years, but he did have the benefit of a much better all around team his first couple years. Do you think that the Steelers went to the playoffs his first two years because he averaged 17 TDs and @2500 yards passing? No, they won because of the running game and defense. BTW, I am not saying he contributed, but 17TDs and 2500 yards is akin to Trent Dilfer on the Ravens, not Peyton Manning.Just look at the Super Bowl win when Ben had a horrendous game against a very good Seahawk team. Why? Because they had a good running game and a good defense to pick up the slack. IMHO, the Browns were 7-2 when Anderson had a good game and 3-4 when he didn't (and 2 of those 3 wins were the 8-0 win over Buffalo in the blizzard and week 17 against a SF team that had already given up). Anderson was a huge factor in them winning or losing because their defense sucked when the weather wasn't miserable and the running game was OK. People want to point to how great Jamal Lewis was, but he had 515 yards rushing through week 9, even with a 216 yard week 2 performance. That means in 8 of the first 9 games he averaged less than 40 yards rushing a game. They were still 5-4 (including 2 losses to Pitt and 1 to NE) mainly because of DA's play. With Frye/Quinn instead, they are probably 2-7 and already out of the playoff picture.BTW, I actually would rather have Quinn take over personally because I can't keep DA in one league (only keep 3) and because I may keep Quinn in another if he is the starter.

 

[Banger]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished. I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:

Year	 Age  Tm  Cmp  Att  Cmp%  Yds   TD  TD%  Int  Int%  Y/A  AY/A  QBR   Sk  Yds  NY/A  ANY/A  Sk%2007	  24  CLE 298  527  56.5  3787  29  5.5  19   3.6   7.2  6.1   82.5  14  109  6.8   5.8	2.6xxxx	  24  xxx 280  469  59.7  3513  18  3.8  23   4.9   7.5  5.7   75.4  46  280  6.3   4.6	8.9

Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

I'd rather have Big Ben by a mile.

Wow, you would rather have a high 1st round pick who has been a starting QB for 4 years already? Shocking.I just don't understand the dissing of DA right now. He has started 1 year in the league and his 1 year was pretty damn good. How EG can say he is average is beyond me. He may get worse, but based on most every long term starting QB in NFL history, their 1st year is NOT a good indicator of their normal. When a guy makes it to the pro-bowl in his first year as a starter, that may be a good indicator that they are not average.Look at Big Ben's career. He had his career year in 2007 in his 4th year as a starter. I am not going to bash him at all because I think he is a good QB and will be for many years, but he did have the benefit of a much better all around team his first couple years. Do you think that the Steelers went to the playoffs his first two years because he averaged 17 TDs and @2500 yards passing? No, they won because of the running game and defense. BTW, I am not saying he contributed, but 17TDs and 2500 yards is akin to Trent Dilfer on the Ravens, not Peyton Manning.Just look at the Super Bowl win when Ben had a horrendous game against a very good Seahawk team. Why? Because they had a good running game and a good defense to pick up the slack. IMHO, the Browns were 7-2 when Anderson had a good game and 3-4 when he didn't (and 2 of those 3 wins were the 8-0 win over Buffalo in the blizzard and week 17 against a SF team that had already given up). Anderson was a huge factor in them winning or losing because their defense sucked when the weather wasn't miserable and the running game was OK. People want to point to how great Jamal Lewis was, but he had 515 yards rushing through week 9, even with a 216 yard week 2 performance. That means in 8 of the first 9 games he averaged less than 40 yards rushing a game. They were still 5-4 (including 2 losses to Pitt and 1 to NE) mainly because of DA's play. With Frye/Quinn instead, they are probably 2-7 and already out of the playoff picture.BTW, I actually would rather have Quinn take over personally because I can't keep DA in one league (only keep 3) and because I may keep Quinn in another if he is the starter.

I didn't put the comparison out there, I responded. I don't see many dissing him. I see some thinking he's an average QB with good/very good weapons, and a good/very good line. At least that's my opinion. Time will tell, I've been wrong before.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished.

I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:
Year Age Tm Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A AY/A QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%2007 24 CLE 298 527 56.5 3787 29 5.5 19 3.6 7.2 6.1 82.5 14 109 6.8 5.8 2.6xxxx 24 xxx 280 469 59.7 3513 18 3.8 23 4.9 7.5 5.7 75.4 46 280 6.3 4.6 8.9Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

Compare him to QB xxxx at age 23.

That is exactly what Chase did EG.The completion percentage argument is weak for a guy in his first year.

Peyton Manning | 18 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp

1998 575/326

Comp %

56.7

1999 533/331 62.1

QBs tend to make their BIGGEST improvements in completion percentages and also in cutting back on mistakes, i.e., INTs and taking sacks from their first to second year's starting. Peyton's other stats look like DA outside of DA's superior INT mark in comparison.

Yds Yd/A TDs Int Rating

3739 6.5 26 28 71.2

Carson Palmer | 9 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp Comp %

2004 432.263 60.9

2005 509/345 67.8

Palmer's first year TD/INT numbers TD 18 INT 18

Matt Hasselbeck | 8 | QB

2001 Sea 321/176 54.8

2002 Sea 419/267 63.7

Hass' TD INT numbers his first year, thirteen starts compared with DA's fifteen. TD 7 INT 8

David Garrard | 9 | QB

2006 Jac 11 241/145 60.2

2007 Jac 12 325/208 64.0

Garrard's TD/INT numbers 10 and 9

Donovan McNabb | 5 | QB

1999 Phi 216/106 49.1

2000 Phi 569/330 58.0

TD/INT numbers first year = 8, 7

Eli Manning | 10 | QB

2004 NYG only 9 games 197/95 48.2

2005 NYG 16 games 557/294 52.8

Also Eli's 05 numbers are very similiar to DA's but still fall shy on TDs especially considering DA only had fifteen starts and then DA's completion percent beat ELI in his first two years. 3762 TD 24 INT 17

2006 NYG 522.301 57.7

Jay Cutler | 6 | QB

2006 Den (ONLY 5 starts) 137/81 59.1 1001 TD 9 INT 5

2007 Den 16 467/297 63.6

Yards 3497 TD 20 INT 14

The above are guys who are considered BETTER than DA but whose numbers don't compare on TD/INT or yardage. They all had low or average completion percentages in their first years and they all made huge strides or significant improvements in completion percentages from their first to second years.

Other QBs who came out of the gates with high completion percentages sometimes went down, ahem, Big Ben took a big tumble from his first to second years. Others who had fantastic completion percentages didn't surpass DA on TDs or yardage numbers like Brady or Farve but both came into the league with high completion numbers but both play/played in systems that were more WC or were WC rather than an aggressive verticle stretch offense that Rob Chudzinski executes in Cleveland.

You and others might overlook the long standing evidence of QBs who start early in their careers and start out with poor or average completion precentages but then make significant strides their second years but I don't. I look for a bump in completion percentage by DA if he's the Browns starting QB in 08 and right now he's the starter for 08 so that is what I expect.

Oh and I didn't bother posting the reams and reams of QBs who had poor completion percentages and poor TD/INT yardage numbers and who went onto fail. DA's TD and yardage numbers rank fourth in NFL history for a QB of his age. THAT IS SIGNIFICANT whether you or others want to acknowledge that or not. Also the expectant imporovement in completion percentage is another thing that many want to overlook and then I'd have to refer to bias as the basis for overlooking historic high TD/average per completion numbers and reasonable improvement in accuracy.

I think he was talking about Roethlisberger, not Manning.And you can throw out all the stats you want, when I watched Anderson play, I saw a very inaccurate QB who missed open receivers all over the field and didn't make a lot of plays. If you think he'll improve dramatically, fine. I think getting a first round pick back for him when you already have a potential franchise QB you traded up into round 1 to get sitting on the bench is a good move for a team with obvious deficiencies on defense.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished.

I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:
Year Age Tm Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A AY/A QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%2007 24 CLE 298 527 56.5 3787 29 5.5 19 3.6 7.2 6.1 82.5 14 109 6.8 5.8 2.6xxxx 24 xxx 280 469 59.7 3513 18 3.8 23 4.9 7.5 5.7 75.4 46 280 6.3 4.6 8.9Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

Compare him to QB xxxx at age 23.

That is exactly what Chase did EG.The completion percentage argument is weak for a guy in his first year.

Peyton Manning | 18 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp

1998 575/326

Comp %

56.7

1999 533/331 62.1

QBs tend to make their BIGGEST improvements in completion percentages and also in cutting back on mistakes, i.e., INTs and taking sacks from their first to second year's starting. Peyton's other stats look like DA outside of DA's superior INT mark in comparison.

Yds Yd/A TDs Int Rating

3739 6.5 26 28 71.2

Carson Palmer | 9 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp Comp %

2004 432.263 60.9

2005 509/345 67.8

Palmer's first year TD/INT numbers TD 18 INT 18

Matt Hasselbeck | 8 | QB

2001 Sea 321/176 54.8

2002 Sea 419/267 63.7

Hass' TD INT numbers his first year, thirteen starts compared with DA's fifteen. TD 7 INT 8

David Garrard | 9 | QB

2006 Jac 11 241/145 60.2

2007 Jac 12 325/208 64.0

Garrard's TD/INT numbers 10 and 9

Donovan McNabb | 5 | QB

1999 Phi 216/106 49.1

2000 Phi 569/330 58.0

TD/INT numbers first year = 8, 7

Eli Manning | 10 | QB

2004 NYG only 9 games 197/95 48.2

2005 NYG 16 games 557/294 52.8

Also Eli's 05 numbers are very similiar to DA's but still fall shy on TDs especially considering DA only had fifteen starts and then DA's completion percent beat ELI in his first two years. 3762 TD 24 INT 17

2006 NYG 522.301 57.7

Jay Cutler | 6 | QB

2006 Den (ONLY 5 starts) 137/81 59.1 1001 TD 9 INT 5

2007 Den 16 467/297 63.6

Yards 3497 TD 20 INT 14

The above are guys who are considered BETTER than DA but whose numbers don't compare on TD/INT or yardage. They all had low or average completion percentages in their first years and they all made huge strides or significant improvements in completion percentages from their first to second years.

Other QBs who came out of the gates with high completion percentages sometimes went down, ahem, Big Ben took a big tumble from his first to second years. Others who had fantastic completion percentages didn't surpass DA on TDs or yardage numbers like Brady or Farve but both came into the league with high completion numbers but both play/played in systems that were more WC or were WC rather than an aggressive verticle stretch offense that Rob Chudzinski executes in Cleveland.

You and others might overlook the long standing evidence of QBs who start early in their careers and start out with poor or average completion precentages but then make significant strides their second years but I don't. I look for a bump in completion percentage by DA if he's the Browns starting QB in 08 and right now he's the starter for 08 so that is what I expect.

Oh and I didn't bother posting the reams and reams of QBs who had poor completion percentages and poor TD/INT yardage numbers and who went onto fail. DA's TD and yardage numbers rank fourth in NFL history for a QB of his age. THAT IS SIGNIFICANT whether you or others want to acknowledge that or not. Also the expectant imporovement in completion percentage is another thing that many want to overlook and then I'd have to refer to bias as the basis for overlooking historic high TD/average per completion numbers and reasonable improvement in accuracy.

I think he was talking about Roethlisberger, not Manning.And you can throw out all the stats you want, when I watched Anderson play, I saw a very inaccurate QB who missed open receivers all over the field and didn't make a lot of plays. If you think he'll improve dramatically, fine. I think getting a first round pick back for him when you already have a potential franchise QB you traded up into round 1 to get sitting on the bench is a good move for a team with obvious deficiencies on defense.

How many 24 year old QBs don't improve dramatically?

 

[Banger]

Anderson is an average QB at best. His numbers are inflated due to a hot 1st half, some incredible pass blocking (that line is going to be very good for years to come, much to my dismay,) the emergence of a running game, and some very talented receivers. I watched several Browns games this year, and Anderson is just too inconsistent, and not very accurate. The problem is, by the time everyone else catches up to this fact, his value will have diminished.

I'd trade the guy now while his value is high and turn the team over to Quinn. This isn't Browns-bashing, I just don't like DA that much as a long-term solution and I have a feeling that Browns fans will regret not having traded him when they could. Rumors have been that teams would be willing to give up a 1st rounder for Anderson. if that's true, they need to move him now, because they'll never get those offers again.

Anderson at age 24 vs. Another QB at age 24:
Year Age Tm Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/A AY/A QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%2007 24 CLE 298 527 56.5 3787 29 5.5 19 3.6 7.2 6.1 82.5 14 109 6.8 5.8 2.6xxxx 24 xxx 280 469 59.7 3513 18 3.8 23 4.9 7.5 5.7 75.4 46 280 6.3 4.6 8.9Anderson is better in every category except completion percentage.

Compare him to QB xxxx at age 23.

That is exactly what Chase did EG.The completion percentage argument is weak for a guy in his first year.

Peyton Manning | 18 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp

1998 575/326

Comp %

56.7

1999 533/331 62.1

QBs tend to make their BIGGEST improvements in completion percentages and also in cutting back on mistakes, i.e., INTs and taking sacks from their first to second year's starting. Peyton's other stats look like DA outside of DA's superior INT mark in comparison.

Yds Yd/A TDs Int Rating

3739 6.5 26 28 71.2

Carson Palmer | 9 | QB

Career Passing Stats

Year Att/Cmp Comp %

2004 432.263 60.9

2005 509/345 67.8

Palmer's first year TD/INT numbers TD 18 INT 18

Matt Hasselbeck | 8 | QB

2001 Sea 321/176 54.8

2002 Sea 419/267 63.7

Hass' TD INT numbers his first year, thirteen starts compared with DA's fifteen. TD 7 INT 8

David Garrard | 9 | QB

2006 Jac 11 241/145 60.2

2007 Jac 12 325/208 64.0

Garrard's TD/INT numbers 10 and 9

Donovan McNabb | 5 | QB

1999 Phi 216/106 49.1

2000 Phi 569/330 58.0

TD/INT numbers first year = 8, 7

Eli Manning | 10 | QB

2004 NYG only 9 games 197/95 48.2

2005 NYG 16 games 557/294 52.8

Also Eli's 05 numbers are very similiar to DA's but still fall shy on TDs especially considering DA only had fifteen starts and then DA's completion percent beat ELI in his first two years. 3762 TD 24 INT 17

2006 NYG 522.301 57.7

Jay Cutler | 6 | QB

2006 Den (ONLY 5 starts) 137/81 59.1 1001 TD 9 INT 5

2007 Den 16 467/297 63.6

Yards 3497 TD 20 INT 14

The above are guys who are considered BETTER than DA but whose numbers don't compare on TD/INT or yardage. They all had low or average completion percentages in their first years and they all made huge strides or significant improvements in completion percentages from their first to second years.

Other QBs who came out of the gates with high completion percentages sometimes went down, ahem, Big Ben took a big tumble from his first to second years. Others who had fantastic completion percentages didn't surpass DA on TDs or yardage numbers like Brady or Farve but both came into the league with high completion numbers but both play/played in systems that were more WC or were WC rather than an aggressive verticle stretch offense that Rob Chudzinski executes in Cleveland.

You and others might overlook the long standing evidence of QBs who start early in their careers and start out with poor or average completion precentages but then make significant strides their second years but I don't. I look for a bump in completion percentage by DA if he's the Browns starting QB in 08 and right now he's the starter for 08 so that is what I expect.

Oh and I didn't bother posting the reams and reams of QBs who had poor completion percentages and poor TD/INT yardage numbers and who went onto fail. DA's TD and yardage numbers rank fourth in NFL history for a QB of his age. THAT IS SIGNIFICANT whether you or others want to acknowledge that or not. Also the expectant imporovement in completion percentage is another thing that many want to overlook and then I'd have to refer to bias as the basis for overlooking historic high TD/average per completion numbers and reasonable improvement in accuracy.

I think he was talking about Roethlisberger, not Manning.And you can throw out all the stats you want, when I watched Anderson play, I saw a very inaccurate QB who missed open receivers all over the field and didn't make a lot of plays. If you think he'll improve dramatically, fine. I think getting a first round pick back for him when you already have a potential franchise QB you traded up into round 1 to get sitting on the bench is a good move for a team with obvious deficiencies on defense.

How many 24 year old QBs don't improve dramatically?

Aaron Brooks

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I just don't understand the dissing of DA right now. He has started 1 year in the league and his 1 year was pretty damn good. How EG can say he is average is beyond me. He may get worse, but based on most every long term starting QB in NFL history, their 1st year is NOT a good indicator of their normal. When a guy makes it to the pro-bowl in his first year as a starter, that may be a good indicator that they are not average.

And I don't understand why people get so jazzed up when I say that. What I saw from him this year is a guy who put up some nice stats in a vertical passing offense, but struggled mightily to move the team down the field when the big play wasn't there. The Browns have a ton of talent on offense now, but when opposing teams took away the long ball, it seemed to me like he bounced an awful lot of throws to open receivers on intermediate patterns. As the year went on, his performances continued to dip in effectiveness as teams realized that this was the way to play Cleveland defensively. After the first quarter of the second game against the Steelers, the Pittsburgh defense adjusted and completely shut down the Browns offense the rest of the game. The remainder of the season after that game, 7 games, Anderson had 9 TDs and 10 INTs.Now, maybe he will improve. However, to me, he has neither the pedigree, the confidence, nor the accuracy to be a top flight QB. When I watched Roethlisberger and Romo early in their careers, they made a lot of mistakes too. However, you could sense something special in those guys - that the mistakes were a result of balls and dynamic play-making. They both still make too many mistakes, but they also rescue their teams with huge plays on a regular basis. I haven't seen that out of Anderson, and that's a trait both Romo and Roethlisberger showed me early on in their careers.Could be that I'm 100% wrong. I can imagine Cleveland fans are nearly orgasmic over a 10-win season, and understandably so. However, don't let that blind you. Schedule is a LOT tougher this year, and you'll be lucky to win 8 games. Odds are, the playoffs won't happen. Anderson's value is likely to take a hit unless he really lights it up - he'll be a year older, have 2 full years for potential suitors to see the warts I pointed out, Quinn in the wings will let other teams know they need to trade DA, etc. You guys have holes all over the defense. You have a guy they believed in enough to trade a 1st round pick this year to get in Brady Quinn sitting around holding a clipboard. Wouldn't it make sense to unload DA for a mid 1st rounder (if in fact,m those rumors are true) and use that pick to draft an impact DL, LB, or CB?