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Annual Plea to Kill the 4pt Pass TD (1 Viewer)

cobalt_27

Footballguy
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections. :X So...maybe one way to address this would be to normalize a passing TD to 6pts? I don't know, just a thought.

The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).

Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.

Thank you for your time.

 
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One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections.The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.Thank you for your time.
Post of the year right here!!! I too am always in disbelief when I see QB passing TD's worth 4 pts?? Why?? Why?? Why?? I have heard people say otherwise QB's are worth too much. Well, let me ask this then...Which player on an NFL roster almost ALWAYS leads their team in number of TD's?? It's not RB's (save for maybe LJ and LT once in awhile). Why shouldn't they lead your fantasy team in total points as well??How many points are TD passes worth in the NFL?? Let's keep it real shall we??
 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections.The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.Thank you for your time.
Post of the year right here!!! I too am always in disbelief when I see QB passing TD's worth 4 pts?? Why?? Why?? Why?? I have heard people say otherwise QB's are worth too much. Well, let me ask this then...Which player on an NFL roster almost ALWAYS leads their team in number of TD's?? It's not RB's (save for maybe LJ and LT once in awhile). Why shouldn't they lead your fantasy team in total points as well??How many points are TD passes worth in the NFL?? Let's keep it real shall we??
Not to mention the fact that the QB position is the position centerpiece of the NFL, and...Peyton Manning always finishes #1 or #2 (or, the rare #3). Yet, there are still many leagues out there that haven't quite figured out a way to make fantasy map onto reality. I mean, people are talking about taking 10+ running backs over him every year. Something is dreadfully disconnected with these leagues. And, they should all be blown up.(And, I wish FBGs would lead the charge, but they're continuously stuck in a stale, retro rut when it comes to this topic.)
 
The only time 4 pts for passing tds makes sense is if you're in a start 2 qb league.

Otherwise you can balance the impact of the 6 pt/per QB out with roster requirements (extra WR for example) or PPR.

 
I completely agree here as well. The argument, "oh, QBs score too much" doesn't fly if your league has 10 RBs going in the 1st round. And anything that makes a Mike Vick rushing TD 50% more valuable than a Peyton Manning passing TD is nonsensical. :thumbup:

 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections.

The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).

Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.

Thank you for your time.
Post of the year right here!!! I too am always in disbelief when I see QB passing TD's worth 4 pts?? Why?? Why?? Why?? I have heard people say otherwise QB's are worth too much. Well, let me ask this then...Which player on an NFL roster almost ALWAYS leads their team in number of TD's?? It's not RB's (save for maybe LJ and LT once in awhile). Why shouldn't they lead your fantasy team in total points as well??How many points are TD passes worth in the NFL?? Let's keep it real shall we??
Not to mention the fact that the QB position is the position centerpiece of the NFL, and...Peyton Manning always finishes #1 or #2 (or, the rare #3). Yet, there are still many leagues out there that haven't quite figured out a way to make fantasy map onto reality. I mean, people are talking about taking 10+ running backs over him every year. Something is dreadfully disconnected with these leagues. And, they should all be blown up.

(And, I wish FBGs would lead the charge, but they're continuously stuck in a stale, retro rut when it comes to this topic.)
When did the NFL start awarding 1 pt for every 10 yds rushing. I would hate to be in the "whoever gets Peyton Manning wins" league.
 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections.

The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).

Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.

Thank you for your time.
Post of the year right here!!! I too am always in disbelief when I see QB passing TD's worth 4 pts?? Why?? Why?? Why?? I have heard people say otherwise QB's are worth too much. Well, let me ask this then...Which player on an NFL roster almost ALWAYS leads their team in number of TD's?? It's not RB's (save for maybe LJ and LT once in awhile). Why shouldn't they lead your fantasy team in total points as well??How many points are TD passes worth in the NFL?? Let's keep it real shall we??
Not to mention the fact that the QB position is the position centerpiece of the NFL, and...Peyton Manning always finishes #1 or #2 (or, the rare #3). Yet, there are still many leagues out there that haven't quite figured out a way to make fantasy map onto reality. I mean, people are talking about taking 10+ running backs over him every year. Something is dreadfully disconnected with these leagues. And, they should all be blown up.

(And, I wish FBGs would lead the charge, but they're continuously stuck in a stale, retro rut when it comes to this topic.)
When did the NFL start awarding 1 pt for every 10 yds rushing. I would hate to be in the "whoever gets Peyton Manning wins" league.
i play in 6 pt passing td leagues and that is not the case.
 
I completely agree here as well. The argument, "oh, QBs score too much" doesn't fly if your league has 10 RBs going in the 1st round. And anything that makes a Mike Vick rushing TD 50% more valuable than a Peyton Manning passing TD is nonsensical. :thumbup:
Exactly. So, why is it the FBG brass, along with so many others out there, haven't figured this out?
 
We do 3 pts and love it. No negative for INTs of course.
So you have devalued a passing TD down to a 25-yd FG?I'm with the OP on this. I hate leagues where any TD is worth anything other than 6 points. What's next? FG's worth 6 pts and EP's worth 3? I mean, why not? At least it would add value to kickers, right?
 
I completely agree here as well. The argument, "oh, QBs score too much" doesn't fly if your league has 10 RBs going in the 1st round. And anything that makes a Mike Vick rushing TD 50% more valuable than a Peyton Manning passing TD is nonsensical. :thumbup:
Exactly. So, why is it the FBG brass, along with so many others out there, haven't figured this out?
It just seems like a lot of scoring conventions haven't changed over time.Is a rushing TD from 1 yard out the equivalent as a 61-yard run? Probably not, right?

I can see that back before the "stud RB theory" became commonplace, maybe 10 or so years ago, that 4 pt passing TDs made sense. But once everyone went RB-heavy and the stats started validating that mindset, RBs became so unbelievably overvalued in FF compared to real football that it is borderline indefensible at this point. Even if it doesn't have a major effect on "VBD value", it's still implying that QBs need to have fewer points scored because they are too important. ;)

 
You would love one of my online keeper leagues then. It's been around since 1997 or 1998. We use 2 pts passing and 4 pts rushing/receiving. Yardage is a typical 1/20 ans 1/10.

Mostly the same owners since the league began, and no one has ever questioned the commissioner's setup since. Every year I prep for this draft I have to remember to recalibrate my thinking from all my other leagues.

But differences between leagues makes things fun.

By the way, if you really want to restore the QB/RB balance, 6 point scoring doesn't do it. You need to introduce a flex position that can include a QB as well.

 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections. :thumbup: So...maybe one way to address this would be to normalize a passing TD to 6pts? I don't know, just a thought.The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.Thank you for your time.
Hi cobalt,I'd be interested to see how the breakdowns go with leagues that most people play in. Our primary goal is trying to be most relevant to most people. It's really not so much about what I prefer. I'll do some checking there to see if things have changed much from the last time we set this.Of course this just really applies for the basic lists. For all our customizable rankings, you can input the scoring for QBs to be whatever you like and that will run those numbers through our stat projections for that player.J
 
I completely agree here as well. The argument, "oh, QBs score too much" doesn't fly if your league has 10 RBs going in the 1st round. And anything that makes a Mike Vick rushing TD 50% more valuable than a Peyton Manning passing TD is nonsensical. :thumbup:
Exactly. So, why is it the FBG brass, along with so many others out there, haven't figured this out?
It just seems like a lot of scoring conventions haven't changed over time.Is a rushing TD from 1 yard out the equivalent as a 61-yard run? Probably not, right?

I can see that back before the "stud RB theory" became commonplace, maybe 10 or so years ago, that 4 pt passing TDs made sense. But once everyone went RB-heavy and the stats started validating that mindset, RBs became so unbelievably overvalued in FF compared to real football that it is borderline indefensible at this point. Even if it doesn't have a major effect on "VBD value", it's still implying that QBs need to have fewer points scored because they are too important. ;)
I think this historical account is likely the most accurate explanation.Still doesn't excuse the (borrowing your phrase here because it's dead-spot-on) "indefensible" standard.

 
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One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections. :) So...maybe one way to address this would be to normalize a passing TD to 6pts? I don't know, just a thought.The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.Thank you for your time.
Hi cobalt,I'd be interested to see how the breakdowns go with leagues that most people play in. Our primary goal is trying to be most relevant to most people. It's really not so much about what I prefer. I'll do some checking there to see if things have changed much from the last time we set this.Of course this just really applies for the basic lists. For all our customizable rankings, you can input the scoring for QBs to be whatever you like and that will run those numbers through our stat projections for that player.J
Joe,I guess I see you guys as so far above the "standard" in other ways, that I would like to see you guys advance the concept that others can follow. There's a lot of wiggle room for you to maneuver just by the wide variability in scoring systems...there really is no standard. But, the whole idea of the 4pt TD makes no sense unless it's buried in the "traditional" model. But, that model is just broken, and I think you guys could be innovative in advancing a more sensible approach.
 
The only time 4 pts for passing tds makes sense is if you're in a start 2 qb league

And let me tell you having a league that starts 2 QB's, may be the most non sensical thing I have seen in FF. Now I have watched alot of NFL games in my day and I don't recall EVER seeing an NFL team trot out two QB's on the field. :)

 
Here is why we use what is called HP scoreing with PPR (4 points per passing TD)

Courtiesy of Antsports

Of the Top 30 players each year here's the breakdown :

Year 2005, 13 QBs, 07 RBs, 09 WRs, and 1 TE.

Year 2004, 12 QBs, 08 RBs, 09 WRs, and 1 TE.

Year 2003, 13 QBs, 10 RBs, 07 WRs, and 0 TE.

Year 2002, 12 QBs, 12 RBs, 06 WRs, and 0 TE.

Year 2001, 11 QBs, 08 RBs, 11 WRs, and 0 TE.

Year 2000, 09 QBs, 11 RBs, 10 WRs, and 0 TE.

Because it balances out QB/RB/WR score the best of the systems normally used. But QBs still are king like they should be.

 
My whole stance here is that it's Joe's responsibility to satisfy his customers -- so defaulting to 4 pts per passing TD is something I can competely understand.

But on an aspirational level, it'd be awesome if someone with FBG' clout and sophistication would drive a change in the mindset of the average FF player. That's something I think we can all aim for, that is, if we all even believe that 6 pts is superior to 4. :)

 
The only time 4 pts for passing tds makes sense is if you're in a start 2 qb league

And let me tell you having a league that starts 2 QB's, may be the most non sensical thing I have seen in FF. Now I have watched alot of NFL games in my day and I don't recall EVER seeing an NFL team trot out two QB's on the field. :)
I think the 9ers did that once.. Montana at QB and Young lined up at RB... I think they ran a flea flicker...
 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections. :) So...maybe one way to address this would be to normalize a passing TD to 6pts? I don't know, just a thought.

The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).

Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.

Thank you for your time.
Hi cobalt,I'd be interested to see how the breakdowns go with leagues that most people play in. Our primary goal is trying to be most relevant to most people. It's really not so much about what I prefer. I'll do some checking there to see if things have changed much from the last time we set this.

Of course this just really applies for the basic lists. For all our customizable rankings, you can input the scoring for QBs to be whatever you like and that will run those numbers through our stat projections for that player.

J
And, Joe, I realize there are customizable rankings, but it's when many of us see the staff rankings things like what's below, it makes us want to scream...
1 RB LaDainian Tomlinson, SD 1 1 1 1.0 1.0 1.0

2 RB Steven Jackson, STL 2 2 2 2.0 2.0 2.0

3 RB Larry Johnson, KC 3 3 6 4.0 3.0 3.0

4 RB Frank Gore, SF 7 6 3 5.3 6.0 6.0

5 RB Brian Westbrook, PHI 4 7 7 6.0 7.0 7.0

6 RB Reggie Bush, NO 11 4 4 6.3 4.0 4.0

7 RB Willie Parker, PIT 15 5 9 9.7 9.0 9.0

8 RB Shaun Alexander, SEA 5 19 8 10.7 8.0 8.0

9 RB Adrian Peterson, MIN 21 10 5 12.0 10.0 10.0

10 RB Rudi Johnson, CIN 8 14 15 12.3 14.0 14.0

11 RB Clinton Portis, WAS 6 15 17 12.7 15.0 15.0

12 RB Laurence Maroney, NE 18 12 10 13.3 12.0 12.0

13 RB Willis McGahee, BAL 14 16 13 14.3 14.0 14.0

13 WR Chad Johnson, CIN 9 13 21 14.3 13.0 13.0

13 QB Peyton Manning, IND 12 8 23 14.3 12.0 12.0
I mean, seriously. I realize that going from 4-pt to 6-pt PaTDs won't completely alter this list. But, Adrian Peterson more valuable than Peyton Manning? Something has to just feel really uncomfortable when you publish this, no? Doesn't it just scream that something's wrong here?
 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections. :lmao: So...maybe one way to address this would be to normalize a passing TD to 6pts? I don't know, just a thought.The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.Thank you for your time.
Hi cobalt,I'd be interested to see how the breakdowns go with leagues that most people play in. Our primary goal is trying to be most relevant to most people. It's really not so much about what I prefer. I'll do some checking there to see if things have changed much from the last time we set this.Of course this just really applies for the basic lists. For all our customizable rankings, you can input the scoring for QBs to be whatever you like and that will run those numbers through our stat projections for that player.J
Joe,I guess I see you guys as so far above the "standard" in other ways, that I would like to see you guys advance the concept that others can follow. There's a lot of wiggle room for you to maneuver just by the wide variability in scoring systems...there really is no standard. But, the whole idea of the 4pt TD makes no sense unless it's buried in the "traditional" model. But, that model is just broken, and I think you guys could be innovative in advancing a more sensible approach.
Thank you cobalt. That's kind of you to say but I think you may be holding us up too high. But I hear you, someone has to initiate changes.Let me kick it around some. In the meantime, keep up the good fight. It's clear you're passionate about it. :)J
 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections. :) So...maybe one way to address this would be to normalize a passing TD to 6pts? I don't know, just a thought.

The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).

Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.

Thank you for your time.
Hi cobalt,I'd be interested to see how the breakdowns go with leagues that most people play in. Our primary goal is trying to be most relevant to most people. It's really not so much about what I prefer. I'll do some checking there to see if things have changed much from the last time we set this.

Of course this just really applies for the basic lists. For all our customizable rankings, you can input the scoring for QBs to be whatever you like and that will run those numbers through our stat projections for that player.

J
Joe,I guess I see you guys as so far above the "standard" in other ways, that I would like to see you guys advance the concept that others can follow. There's a lot of wiggle room for you to maneuver just by the wide variability in scoring systems...there really is no standard. But, the whole idea of the 4pt TD makes no sense unless it's buried in the "traditional" model. But, that model is just broken, and I think you guys could be innovative in advancing a more sensible approach.
OK - if you try to become a paying member and not just a board troll and you would know that the Draft Dominator is completely customizable to your leagues scoring and starter rules, and it ranks everyone overall accordingly. This year you can even customize the projections! The DD alone makes up for the whole subscription price.You would also know that this tool is the most innovative approach - and everyone copied it (take it as a compliment Bruce). I used to be the only one drafting with a PC, now almost everyone does.

 
Is a rushing TD from 1 yard out the equivalent as a 61-yard run? Probably not, right?

Absolutely it is. It counts for 6 pts whether it was a 99 yd run or a 1 yd run. A TD is a TD is a TD. This concept needs to be reinvented into FF. Same thing with 1 pt for every 10 yds rushing or anything of the sort. Do NFL teams get 1 pt for every 10 rushing yards?? or 1 point for every 10 receiving yards?? How about 1 point for every 50 yds passing?? I've never seen it.

 
My whole stance here is that it's Joe's responsibility to satisfy his customers -- so defaulting to 4 pts per passing TD is something I can competely understand.But on an aspirational level, it'd be awesome if someone with FBG' clout and sophistication would drive a change in the mindset of the average FF player. That's something I think we can all aim for, that is, if we all even believe that 6 pts is superior to 4. :)
If you give 6 points per passing TD with a lot of your reasoning you must also be in favor of going .1 pts per passing yard instead of .05 points. I personally like 4 pts per passing TD because 1) Majority of the leagues use it (makes disscussing players/performances much easier) 2) All you are arguing over is 40-50 points per year, and about 2-4 points per week.Is it that big of a deal?
 
One of Yudkin's recent posts stated how hard it was to get points out of the QB position. Then, he proceeded to qualify that statement by reminding us that FBGs use 4pts for all PaTDs in their projections. :lmao: So...maybe one way to address this would be to normalize a passing TD to 6pts? I don't know, just a thought.The fact that elite QBs are so undervalued when compared to 2nd and 3rd tier RBs astounds me when it comes to this site (and to be fair, other sites as well; I just expect more from the folks here).Would you all just think about this for a second. Clearly, when you do, you'll score a passing TD as you do for every other position. And, maybe, just maybe Peyton Manning will be selected before Reuben Droughns this year.Thank you for your time.
Hi cobalt,I'd be interested to see how the breakdowns go with leagues that most people play in. Our primary goal is trying to be most relevant to most people. It's really not so much about what I prefer. I'll do some checking there to see if things have changed much from the last time we set this.Of course this just really applies for the basic lists. For all our customizable rankings, you can input the scoring for QBs to be whatever you like and that will run those numbers through our stat projections for that player.J
Joe,I guess I see you guys as so far above the "standard" in other ways, that I would like to see you guys advance the concept that others can follow. There's a lot of wiggle room for you to maneuver just by the wide variability in scoring systems...there really is no standard. But, the whole idea of the 4pt TD makes no sense unless it's buried in the "traditional" model. But, that model is just broken, and I think you guys could be innovative in advancing a more sensible approach.
Thank you cobalt. That's kind of you to say but I think you may be holding us up too high. But I hear you, someone has to initiate changes.Let me kick it around some. In the meantime, keep up the good fight. It's clear you're passionate about it. :)J
:lmao: Every year, my blood pressure goes up when this issue comes up. But, I honestly think we'll look back 10 years from now and wonder, "what were we thinking?" The RB-dominant model will hopefully become passe very soon.
 
OK - if you try to become a paying member and not just a board troll and you would know that the Draft Dominator is completely customizable to your leagues scoring and starter rules, and it ranks everyone overall accordingly. This year you can even customize the projections! The DD alone makes up for the whole subscription price.
Thank you. I am a paying member, and I know all about the DD. You're missing the point.
 
I mean, seriously. I realize that going from 4-pt to 6-pt PaTDs won't completely alter this list. But, Adrian Peterson more valuable than Peyton Manning? Something has to just feel really uncomfortable when you publish this, no? Doesn't it just scream that something's wrong here?
This is called "fantasy football" for a reason. The fact that the majority of league field 2 RB's and 1QB is what makes the RB so much more valuable (along with the fact that RB's split time where QB's do not).
 
Maybe we need to ask this in a simpler way?? If, let's say Brett Favre throw's 3 TD passes in one game. How many points would the Packers receive for his efforts??

A. 6 Pts for EACH TD thus a total of 18 points for the Packers

Or...

B. 4 points for EACH TD thus a total of 12 points for the Packers??

Seems like a simple answer to me??

 
Maybe we need to ask this in a simpler way?? If, let's say Brett Favre throw's 3 TD passes in one game. How many points would the Packers receive for his efforts??A. 6 Pts for EACH TD thus a total of 18 points for the PackersOr...B. 4 points for EACH TD thus a total of 12 points for the Packers??Seems like a simple answer to me??
A TD only league is probably a much better fit for you.
 
I mean, seriously. I realize that going from 4-pt to 6-pt PaTDs won't completely alter this list. But, Adrian Peterson more valuable than Peyton Manning? Something has to just feel really uncomfortable when you publish this, no? Doesn't it just scream that something's wrong here?
This is called "fantasy football" for a reason. The fact that the majority of league field 2 RB's and 1QB is what makes the RB so much more valuable (along with the fact that RB's split time where QB's do not).
BINGO!!! thus making our point....QB's are more valuable then RB's.
 
The only time 4 pts for passing tds makes sense is if you're in a start 2 qb league

And let me tell you having a league that starts 2 QB's, may be the most non sensical thing I have seen in FF. Now I have watched alot of NFL games in my day and I don't recall EVER seeing an NFL team trot out two QB's on the field. :thumbup:
I think the 9ers did that once.. Montana at QB and Young lined up at RB... I think they ran a flea flicker...
I know the Bucs did it once under Sam Wyche. Had Trent Dilfer and Craig Erickson on the field at the same time. Fittingly it was Wyche's last season as coach :(
 
I mean, seriously. I realize that going from 4-pt to 6-pt PaTDs won't completely alter this list. But, Adrian Peterson more valuable than Peyton Manning? Something has to just feel really uncomfortable when you publish this, no? Doesn't it just scream that something's wrong here?
This is called "fantasy football" for a reason. The fact that the majority of league field 2 RB's and 1QB is what makes the RB so much more valuable (along with the fact that RB's split time where QB's do not).
I agree that the 1:2 split in roster spots contributes to the primary reason for the "value" disparity. But, if fantasy is even remotely connected to reality, there is no way that the premier stat hog of all-time at the QB position should be regarded as the 13th most valuable player overall (behind, say, 11 RBs). It's asinine. And, normalizing the TD point total to increase the variability within the QB position would contribute to moving the elite tier of QBs up a notch in "value."The 4pt TD is a historical standard and nothing more. And, because sites like FBG perpetuate this standard, the motivation to reflect on the absurdity of it all isn't quite there for many leagues. But, I think that's shifting, and I think it would be appropriate for FBGs to be ahead of the curve on this.

 
Maybe we need to ask this in a simpler way?? If, let's say Brett Favre throw's 3 TD passes in one game. How many points would the Packers receive for his efforts??A. 6 Pts for EACH TD thus a total of 18 points for the PackersOr...B. 4 points for EACH TD thus a total of 12 points for the Packers??Seems like a simple answer to me??
A TD only league is probably a much better fit for you.
And that is EXACTLY the kind of league I like to play in. With bonus points at 100 rush/rec 300 passing. Now granted, NFL teams are not given points for those benchmarks either, but they are and always will be considered a "talked about" stat every Sunday in the NFL. You will always see the 100 yd rushers and receivers and 300 yd passers listed on highlight shows, but you don't ever see 70 yard rushers, or 200 yd passers listed. The point is, 100 and 300 are benchmark numbers for any player and always will be.
 
I mean, seriously. I realize that going from 4-pt to 6-pt PaTDs won't completely alter this list. But, Adrian Peterson more valuable than Peyton Manning? Something has to just feel really uncomfortable when you publish this, no? Doesn't it just scream that something's wrong here?
This is called "fantasy football" for a reason. The fact that the majority of league field 2 RB's and 1QB is what makes the RB so much more valuable (along with the fact that RB's split time where QB's do not).
I agree that the 1:2 split in roster spots contributes to the primary reason for the "value" disparity. But, if fantasy is even remotely connected to reality, there is no way that the premier stat hog of all-time at the QB position should be regarded as the 13th most valuable player overall (behind, say, 11 RBs). It's asinine. And, normalizing the TD point total to increase the variability within the QB position would contribute to moving the elite tier of QBs up a notch in "value."The 4pt TD is a historical standard and nothing more. And, because sites like FBG perpetuate this standard, the motivation to reflect on the absurdity of it all isn't quite there for many leagues. But, I think that's shifting, and I think it would be appropriate for FBGs to be ahead of the curve on this.
Changing to 6pts per passing TD will still leave Manning at the same draft position IMO.
 
Cobalt...can you add a Poll to this thread
I'd say make that a separate thread. I think it would be interesting to see what the breakdown is for 4pt/6pt leagues, but my whole issue is that it's beside the point whether 50, 60, or 90% of leagues employ the 4pt system. The whole point is that it's absurd.
 
I mean, seriously. I realize that going from 4-pt to 6-pt PaTDs won't completely alter this list. But, Adrian Peterson more valuable than Peyton Manning? Something has to just feel really uncomfortable when you publish this, no? Doesn't it just scream that something's wrong here?
This is called "fantasy football" for a reason. The fact that the majority of league field 2 RB's and 1QB is what makes the RB so much more valuable (along with the fact that RB's split time where QB's do not).
I agree that the 1:2 split in roster spots contributes to the primary reason for the "value" disparity. But, if fantasy is even remotely connected to reality, there is no way that the premier stat hog of all-time at the QB position should be regarded as the 13th most valuable player overall (behind, say, 11 RBs). It's asinine. And, normalizing the TD point total to increase the variability within the QB position would contribute to moving the elite tier of QBs up a notch in "value."The 4pt TD is a historical standard and nothing more. And, because sites like FBG perpetuate this standard, the motivation to reflect on the absurdity of it all isn't quite there for many leagues. But, I think that's shifting, and I think it would be appropriate for FBGs to be ahead of the curve on this.
Changing to 6pts per passing TD will still leave Manning at the same draft position IMO.
Perhaps. Rankings depend on a number of variables, both in terms of roster makeups and scoring systems (not to mention league size and other factors). But, there's still no reason, then, to award only 4pts for a TD. And, if anything, the direction of QB "value" should at least be going up, and standardizing the 6pt TD would at least be an effort in that direction. Again, the important thing here would be the within-position variability that would widen ever-so-slightly with the 6pt TD. Not by a ton. But, enough that it would reflect reality a little more, and I wouldn't have to stop drinking coffee for fear that my blood vessels will burst before reading about people avoiding Manning until pick 13 or Drew Brees until the 4th freaking round.
 
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Who cares how other leagues set up QB scoring? As long as you like the scoring system in your league, that's all that should matter, right? And plus, having passing TDs at 6 points is not going to change the way most people draft (or at least it shouldn't). As has been touched on in this thread, the real reason that QBs have lower value compared to RBs is position scarcity. Most leagues start 1 QB and 2 RB - there is your value problem. If you want more equality between the two positions start 2 QB and 2 RB, or 1 QB and 1 RB.

I prefer to have all TDs worth the same as well. But to blame position value differences on a 2 pt difference in TDs is not entirely correct.

As a footnote, I just don't understand the whole "fantasy should be exactly like the NFL" ideology, but I don't want to hijack this thread too much.

 
Who cares? Really, why does it matter?

Guppies usually draft based on most FF points scored. Sharks usually draft based on some system that normalizes each player at each position so that you can compare one position to another - for example, VBD. As long as all of the QBs are scored the same, you can normalize them against a baseline. 4 pts or 6 pts per TD should not make a significant difference - you're normalizing against the same baseline.

Personally, I love leagues with really goofy scoring systems. Most of the other owners still draft of their cheat sheet for other leagues or, worse yet, the cheat sheet in some magazine. The goofier the system, the more I am able to take advantage of strange VBD distributions. In some leagues, a LB is worth a second round pick. Just depends.

So the real solution is for FBG to be fully customizable. I should be able to put in the scoring system for all of my leagues and, when I get to a player page, choose the league and then the player FF pts and VBD rank should be customized to that league. Then we're all happy.

 
And for the record, anyone who uses the "passing TDs are worth 6 pts in the NFL" logic is wrong. Passing TDs are worth ZERO points in the NFL. RECEIVING TDs are worth 6.

 

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