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Antonio Gates (1 Viewer)

Jercules

Footballguy
He was a top point-getter in my league (standard scoring: 6 per TD, 1 per 10 yds rec.) amongst non-QBs before getting hurt. If he has a full season of similar production, given he's a TE, I think it's fair to say he'd be the most valuable player in fantasy football.

Of course, and this is my personal litmus test; it has a lot to do with whether or not the Chargers keep Vincent Jackson. But if SD heads into next season with Gates as their primary pass-catcher, does anybody have the balls to to use a 1st on him in a redraft?

 
I just started a 16 team dynasty IDP league.

High Performance scoring

TE gets 1.5 ppr and a 2pt bonus kicks in at 65yds

I took Gates at 2.06 (22 overall)

Vernon went 1st at 1.15

Finley went 2nd at 2.01

Witten went 3rd at 2.05

Gates went 4th at 2.06

In this scoring last year he ended as TE4....despite missing 6 games.

 
Record breaking seasons are typically once in a lifetime for a player. Unfortunately, Gates got hurt in the middle of his. Had he not, it may have eclipsed all other record breaking FF seasons had it continued given his position and the points he was putting up, but he did and that's over now. The chances of him repeating what he did for the 1st half of last season are minimal.

 
Not only is it ridiculous to consider using a #1 pick on Gates in redraft, (your leaguemates will cheer) but now more than ever the TE position as a whole is not that important. There are at least 10 TE's that can get you comparable numbers. Last year a lot of folks blew high picks on Dallas Clark, Gates, Finley, and the guys that picked up Tamme made out like bandits. The TE position back in the days when only Gonzales was the man had a bigger dropoff in tiers. But nowadays, it's a crapshoot, and you can get stud production for TE's selected in the 10th round. I'll let someone else overpay for Gates.

 
Not only is it ridiculous to consider using a #1 pick on Gates in redraft, (your leaguemates will cheer) but now more than ever the TE position as a whole is not that important. There are at least 10 TE's that can get you comparable numbers. Last year a lot of folks blew high picks on Dallas Clark, Gates, Finley, and the guys that picked up Tamme made out like bandits. The TE position back in the days when only Gonzales was the man had a bigger dropoff in tiers. But nowadays, it's a crapshoot, and you can get stud production for TE's selected in the 10th round. I'll let someone else overpay for Gates.
While I agree that TE is a spot where you can wait and get good value, I think your examples are a bit off. Clark, Finley, and Gates were all putting up very big numbers before their injuries. Had they not been hurt, the people who took them early would have looked like geniuses. Gates was #1 in PPG by a mile, and only Witten--another early pick--finished ahead of Clark and Finley.* *Finley is listed as playing 5 games, but since he was lost for the season on the second play of the Washington game, I calculated for him based on 4 games.
 
Bringing Steve Smith in could definitely help...
Eh, I have the opposite opinion on that situation. Gates puts up massive numbers now. I don't foresee how bringing in another bona fide target will boost a stat of a TE that already sets the market on production for his position. I'm a Gates owner. I'm comfortable with just how things are right now. Bringing in more weapons just allows for the QB to have more options.Perhaps it will help him when he begins to start losing a step and double coverage will begin to prohibit his production, but until then I hope things stay put.
 
Not only is it ridiculous to consider using a #1 pick on Gates in redraft, (your leaguemates will cheer) but now more than ever the TE position as a whole is not that important. There are at least 10 TE's that can get you comparable numbers. Last year a lot of folks blew high picks on Dallas Clark, Gates, Finley, and the guys that picked up Tamme made out like bandits. The TE position back in the days when only Gonzales was the man had a bigger dropoff in tiers. But nowadays, it's a crapshoot, and you can get stud production for TE's selected in the 10th round. I'll let someone else overpay for Gates.
While I agree that TE is a spot where you can wait and get good value, I think your examples are a bit off. Clark, Finley, and Gates were all putting up very big numbers before their injuries. Had they not been hurt, the people who took them early would have looked like geniuses. Gates was #1 in PPG by a mile, and only Witten--another early pick--finished ahead of Clark and Finley.* *Finley is listed as playing 5 games, but since he was lost for the season on the second play of the Washington game, I calculated for him based on 4 games.
I agree with people saying he can be had later than round 1, and so to use a first on him is foolish. I suppose what I'm getting at is is he worth a 1st?When VJax was out and the passing game was Rivers, Gates, and a few nobodies, he was spectacular. He was the #1 non-QB non-RB in my league before he got hurt, and he's a TE.

It's true that beyond Gates, TE's are more or less a dime a dozen and you're likely better off grabbing Graham or Winslow really late than taking Clark or Witten. But with Gates, if he repeats his production from last year, you have a massive advantage at a mandatory position (in my league last year, #1 TE was Witten with 146 points, #2 was Gates with 134, despite missing six games. That's ridiculous).

 
Not only is it ridiculous to consider using a #1 pick on Gates in redraft, (your leaguemates will cheer) but now more than ever the TE position as a whole is not that important. There are at least 10 TE's that can get you comparable numbers. Last year a lot of folks blew high picks on Dallas Clark, Gates, Finley, and the guys that picked up Tamme made out like bandits. The TE position back in the days when only Gonzales was the man had a bigger dropoff in tiers. But nowadays, it's a crapshoot, and you can get stud production for TE's selected in the 10th round. I'll let someone else overpay for Gates.
While I agree that Gates isn't a 1st round pick, I don't agree with what you're posting here at all.People have been selling this "there are tons of TEs that can get comparable numbers" for the last 6 years or so. The likelihood that there will be several TEs with similar numbers is high, the problem is knowing which ones they are. For everyone that nailed Dallas Clark four years ago a dozen other people swung and missed on Todd Heap and LJ Smith and Kellen Winslow and Jeremy Shockey and a ton of others. That's where Gates has value over those guys. You might find a TE in the 10th that puts up top 5 numbers, or you might get LJ Smith (and the latter is much more likely).And Tamme is a TERRIBLE example. An injury replacement on one of the league's best offenses isn't something you go into the season counting on. That's like saying that drafting a RB early is pointless because people made out like a bandit with LJ a few years ago when Priest got hurt, or pick and choose any of a gajillion other examples at other positions.The difference between TE1 and TE10 last year was 7.3 points per game. At RB it was 7.0 points per game, and at WR it was 2.7 points per game. So it's not like there's only a marginal difference between the top 10 TEs.If we assume Gates was an outlier last year, the results are basically the same. TE2 vs TE10 was 3.1. RB2 vs RB10 was 3.0, and at WR it was 2.6.And again, that's all assuming you even pick the right guy into that 5-10 range, which is unlikely.Even Finley and VD aren't immune. They could just as easily be another in a long list of guys that joined the "sure-thing" top 3 TE list. Todd Heap, Jeremy Shockey, Brent Celek, Kellen Winslow, Chris Cooley and others all spent time in that class.
 
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Not only is it ridiculous to consider using a #1 pick on Gates in redraft, (your leaguemates will cheer) but now more than ever the TE position as a whole is not that important. There are at least 10 TE's that can get you comparable numbers. Last year a lot of folks blew high picks on Dallas Clark, Gates, Finley, and the guys that picked up Tamme made out like bandits. The TE position back in the days when only Gonzales was the man had a bigger dropoff in tiers. But nowadays, it's a crapshoot, and you can get stud production for TE's selected in the 10th round. I'll let someone else overpay for Gates.
While I agree that Gates isn't a 1st round pick, I don't agree with what you're posting here at all.People have been selling this "there are tons of TEs that can get comparable numbers" for the last 6 years or so. The likelihood that there will be several TEs with similar numbers is high, the problem is knowing which ones they are. For everyone that nailed Dallas Clark four years ago a dozen other people swung and missed on Todd Heap and LJ Smith and Kellen Winslow and Jeremy Shockey and a ton of others. That's where Gates has value over those guys. You might find a TE in the 10th that puts up top 5 numbers, or you might get LJ Smith (and the latter is much more likely).And Tamme is a TERRIBLE example. An injury replacement on one of the league's best offenses isn't something you go into the season counting on. That's like saying that drafting a RB early is pointless because people made out like a bandit with LJ a few years ago when Priest got hurt, or pick and choose any of a gajillion other examples at other positions.The difference between TE1 and TE10 last year was 7.3 points per game. At RB it was 7.0 points per game, and at WR it was 2.7 points per game. So it's not like there's only a marginal difference between the top 10 TEs.If we assume Gates was an outlier last year, the results are basically the same. TE2 vs TE10 was 3.1. RB2 vs RB10 was 3.0, and at WR it was 2.6.And again, that's all assuming you even pick the right guy into that 5-10 range, which is unlikely.Even Finley and VD aren't immune. They could just as easily be another in a long list of guys that joined the "sure-thing" top 3 TE list. Todd Heap, Jeremy Shockey, Brent Celek, Kellen Winslow, Chris Cooley and others all spent time in that class.
:goodposting:I had a similar reaction to Raiderfan's post, but wasn't sure what the numbers would show.
 
If you could be sure he would repeat last year's pace than he would be worth a late first round pick. His production matched anything you would want to get from a Number 1 WR and in a league that requires you to start a TE the value at that position is huge. But it seems unlikely he can repeat that level of production.

 
You can't expect Gates to repeat his ppg from last season. He will lose a few looks because of V-Jax and a few more because of the ascending running game.

That said, the talk about other tight ends as #1 in REDRAFT is whack. Who else would you want more than Gates? Dallas Clark was definitely losing a step even before the injury. Witten blew up because of Kitna and Dez's injury, won't repeat. Finley - too many mouths to feed in GB and now there is Cobb to steal a few short routes. I might consider Vernon Davis, but lots of question marks there.

The injury concerns make no sense. Everything I read about his specific injury said you recover from it just fine, doesn't matter if you are 20 or 35. It's not a torn ACL or something like that. Gates is a beast and will continue to be a beast for another 2 years.

 
Yes, he can do it again. Prorated to a full season, Gates was on pace for 104 targets. That's sustainable. A handful of TE's eclipsed that mark last year and 10-12 were in that ballpark (85+). Will he do it again? I don't know. There's a mixed bag of factors to support both sides of the argument...

Against: His 76.9% reception rate was as good as it gets, as was his reception to TD ratio 5:1. More realistic numbers are in the high 60's rec. rate and closer to the leaguewide rec:TD ratio for TE's in the neighborhood of 7.5:1 or 8:1. Thirty percent of Gates' targets were in the red-zone. It's reasonable to assume that a healthier, more experienced Mathews would affect that number, as would the presence of Vincent Jackson or a comperable WR option.

For: Jackson's return isn't a given and neither is Mathews negative impact on Gates' red-zone looks. If Gates played 16 games and the Chargers go into the year again with Floyd as their best option at WR, 100 targets for Gates would practically be a foregone conclusion.

He'll need some things to break his way between now and September. But can he? Absolutely.

 
In my High Performance TE leagues Witten was TE#1.

That made him 9th overall ahead of every RB/WR except Foster/Roddy, and TE is a flex with RB.

Do I think Gates can have the same pace as last year...no, but if he is a 1/4 less from last year he is still TE1 essentially.

 
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So then assuming one thinks Gates is going to be similar to what he was last season pre-injury, how early is too early to draft this guy in a redraft league? Rd 1 and 2 seem too early, but maybe not if you really want to make sure you get him. I have a feeling he won't last past the middle of rd 3 in many leagues if he is fully healthy come preseason.

 
So then assuming one thinks Gates is going to be similar to what he was last season pre-injury, how early is too early to draft this guy in a redraft league? Rd 1 and 2 seem too early, but maybe not if you really want to make sure you get him. I have a feeling he won't last past the middle of rd 3 in many leagues if he is fully healthy come preseason.
If you're in the 5 hole or later in a 12 team redraft, you have to wait until the 3rd. There's still top 10 WR's and RB's on the board where you'd have to take him in the 2nd.
 
How soon is too soon to take him in a dynasty start up? 6th round sound about right?

 
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So then assuming one thinks Gates is going to be similar to what he was last season pre-injury, how early is too early to draft this guy in a redraft league? Rd 1 and 2 seem too early, but maybe not if you really want to make sure you get him. I have a feeling he won't last past the middle of rd 3 in many leagues if he is fully healthy come preseason.
If we were to assume that Gates would pick up his ppg pace that he had last year prior to the injury then he's a top 3 overall pick, if not #1 overall. That kind of production (I'm pretty sure he was outscoring everyone at every position at that point, or at least close to it) out of the TE position is insane in a league that requires a TE.Of course, the likelihood that he picks up that pace again is practically zero. No one repeats those kind of seasons. It's no different than the year after Peyton's 48 TD year, Brady's 50 TD year, Alexander's 28 TD year, LT's 31 TD year, Moss's 20+ TD year, etc.Once in a lifetime seasons. The unfortunately part is that Gates got hurt in the middle of his so we never got to see what the final numbers were.
 
Expecting numbers like last year (when he was healthy) might not realistic, but assuming he is healthy coming into camp, he is the no-brainer number 1 TE. Until further notice, you gotta figure that Rivers will throw 30+ TDs, and Gates will get at least 9-10+ of those.

 
Not only is it ridiculous to consider using a #1 pick on Gates in redraft, (your leaguemates will cheer) but now more than ever the TE position as a whole is not that important. There are at least 10 TE's that can get you comparable numbers. Last year a lot of folks blew high picks on Dallas Clark, Gates, Finley, and the guys that picked up Tamme made out like bandits. The TE position back in the days when only Gonzales was the man had a bigger dropoff in tiers. But nowadays, it's a crapshoot, and you can get stud production for TE's selected in the 10th round. I'll let someone else overpay for Gates.
While I agree that Gates isn't a 1st round pick, I don't agree with what you're posting here at all.People have been selling this "there are tons of TEs that can get comparable numbers" for the last 6 years or so. The likelihood that there will be several TEs with similar numbers is high, the problem is knowing which ones they are. For everyone that nailed Dallas Clark four years ago a dozen other people swung and missed on Todd Heap and LJ Smith and Kellen Winslow and Jeremy Shockey and a ton of others. That's where Gates has value over those guys. You might find a TE in the 10th that puts up top 5 numbers, or you might get LJ Smith (and the latter is much more likely).And Tamme is a TERRIBLE example. An injury replacement on one of the league's best offenses isn't something you go into the season counting on. That's like saying that drafting a RB early is pointless because people made out like a bandit with LJ a few years ago when Priest got hurt, or pick and choose any of a gajillion other examples at other positions.The difference between TE1 and TE10 last year was 7.3 points per game. At RB it was 7.0 points per game, and at WR it was 2.7 points per game. So it's not like there's only a marginal difference between the top 10 TEs.If we assume Gates was an outlier last year, the results are basically the same. TE2 vs TE10 was 3.1. RB2 vs RB10 was 3.0, and at WR it was 2.6.And again, that's all assuming you even pick the right guy into that 5-10 range, which is unlikely.Even Finley and VD aren't immune. They could just as easily be another in a long list of guys that joined the "sure-thing" top 3 TE list. Todd Heap, Jeremy Shockey, Brent Celek, Kellen Winslow, Chris Cooley and others all spent time in that class.
While Gates was on a torrid pace last year before he got hurt, and he helped owners jump out to some early wins, what did he do for those who counted on him during the playoffs or championships? Even a superstar like Gates is human, and can’t sustain that pace for long. The body eventually will break down. He’s still elite, but he is now almost 31 years old. I’d still pick him as the #1 TE in fantasy, but not in the first round, and likely below his inflated ADP. To give some perspective, I was a Gates owner every year he has been in the league, even drafting him in the late rounds when he was still a relative unknown. Each year, it would take a 3rd round pick to get him. He was the old standby on all my redraft teams and a personal favorite. He still is. I love me some Gates. But last year, in both my leagues, I passed on Gates (in the 4th) grabbing Hakeem Nicks instead and later drafting tandem TE’s in both leagues: (Z. Miller/T. Heap) in one and (Winslow/Pettigrew) in the other. Gates was inactive during the FF playoffs while Miller and Winslow had terrific games during the championship week of the playoffs. Gates owners who were still in the playoffs (very few) were scrambling to pick up a fill-in TE. Every year I had picked Gates, it was “close but no cigar”. Last year, the first time I have no Gates on any team...and I win two championships in two leagues played. Coincidence? Maybe…Gates is the best TE in football, no question. There are a number of other TE’s out there who could put up good stats, (albeit not as consistent as Gates) to help your FF team stay competitive. In my opinion, Gates where he is picked, at his age and injury history, is a bit of a luxury. The PPG difference between Gates and others is considerable (and noted), but how is that going to be a difference maker if he is hurt when you need him in the FF playoffs? There are cheaper ways of mitigating risk at the position, while freeing up a valuable 3rd rounder to pick a stud WR or RB you couldn’t get later.
 
'Raiderfan32904 said:
Not only is it ridiculous to consider using a #1 pick on Gates in redraft, (your leaguemates will cheer) but now more than ever the TE position as a whole is not that important. There are at least 10 TE's that can get you comparable numbers. Last year a lot of folks blew high picks on Dallas Clark, Gates, Finley, and the guys that picked up Tamme made out like bandits. The TE position back in the days when only Gonzales was the man had a bigger dropoff in tiers. But nowadays, it's a crapshoot, and you can get stud production for TE's selected in the 10th round. I'll let someone else overpay for Gates.
While I agree that Gates isn't a 1st round pick, I don't agree with what you're posting here at all.People have been selling this "there are tons of TEs that can get comparable numbers" for the last 6 years or so. The likelihood that there will be several TEs with similar numbers is high, the problem is knowing which ones they are. For everyone that nailed Dallas Clark four years ago a dozen other people swung and missed on Todd Heap and LJ Smith and Kellen Winslow and Jeremy Shockey and a ton of others. That's where Gates has value over those guys. You might find a TE in the 10th that puts up top 5 numbers, or you might get LJ Smith (and the latter is much more likely).And Tamme is a TERRIBLE example. An injury replacement on one of the league's best offenses isn't something you go into the season counting on. That's like saying that drafting a RB early is pointless because people made out like a bandit with LJ a few years ago when Priest got hurt, or pick and choose any of a gajillion other examples at other positions.The difference between TE1 and TE10 last year was 7.3 points per game. At RB it was 7.0 points per game, and at WR it was 2.7 points per game. So it's not like there's only a marginal difference between the top 10 TEs.If we assume Gates was an outlier last year, the results are basically the same. TE2 vs TE10 was 3.1. RB2 vs RB10 was 3.0, and at WR it was 2.6.And again, that's all assuming you even pick the right guy into that 5-10 range, which is unlikely.Even Finley and VD aren't immune. They could just as easily be another in a long list of guys that joined the "sure-thing" top 3 TE list. Todd Heap, Jeremy Shockey, Brent Celek, Kellen Winslow, Chris Cooley and others all spent time in that class.
While Gates was on a torrid pace last year before he got hurt, and he helped owners jump out to some early wins, what did he do for those who counted on him during the playoffs or championships? Even a superstar like Gates is human, and can’t sustain that pace for long. The body eventually will break down. He’s still elite, but he is now almost 31 years old. I’d still pick him as the #1 TE in fantasy, but not in the first round, and likely below his inflated ADP. To give some perspective, I was a Gates owner every year he has been in the league, even drafting him in the late rounds when he was still a relative unknown. Each year, it would take a 3rd round pick to get him. He was the old standby on all my redraft teams and a personal favorite. He still is. I love me some Gates. But last year, in both my leagues, I passed on Gates (in the 4th) grabbing Hakeem Nicks instead and later drafting tandem TE’s in both leagues: (Z. Miller/T. Heap) in one and (Winslow/Pettigrew) in the other. Gates was inactive during the FF playoffs while Miller and Winslow had terrific games during the championship week of the playoffs. Gates owners who were still in the playoffs (very few) were scrambling to pick up a fill-in TE. Every year I had picked Gates, it was “close but no cigar”. Last year, the first time I have no Gates on any team...and I win two championships in two leagues played. Coincidence? Maybe…Gates is the best TE in football, no question. There are a number of other TE’s out there who could put up good stats, (albeit not as consistent as Gates) to help your FF team stay competitive. In my opinion, Gates where he is picked, at his age and injury history, is a bit of a luxury. The PPG difference between Gates and others is considerable (and noted), but how is that going to be a difference maker if he is hurt when you need him in the FF playoffs? There are cheaper ways of mitigating risk at the position, while freeing up a valuable 3rd rounder to pick a stud WR or RB you couldn’t get later.
Yea, it is a coincidence.Prior to last year, he had not missed a game in 4 years, and looking at the stats, he has missed 3 games in his career coming into last year.While I know he is banged up many times, at least for my scoring he really sets himself too far apart from the other TE'sGonzalez is 4 years older and hasn't missed a game the last 4 years. Just seems odd to point out that he missed the last 6 games last year, and you call out how he did not help you much when the playoffs rolled around.Lets look at his "injury history" and how it has lead owners to getting crap in the playoffs when you needed him.In 18 "playoff games" for FF he has 12 TD's2009week 14 4/44 TDweek 15 4/33 TDweek 16 3/74 TD2008week 14 DNPweek 15 7/78week 16 4/42 2TD2007week 14 6/57 TDweek 15 1/8week 16 1/242006week 14 7/104 2TDweek 15 1/7week 16 2/632005week 14 13/123 TDweek 15 6/29week 16 4/52 TD2004week 14 1/17week 15 1/72 TDweek 16 7/49 TD
 
He was also getting looked at on the sidelines, but that was late 4th and haven't heard anything regarding any injury.

VJax and Tolbert taking his catches.

 
Pats took him away and left single coverage on VJax who had a monster game.
This, plus Gates had a ball or two that he should have caught. Seemed like Belichick decided that Gates wasn't going to beat them.
I'm sorry but we're not talking about some random scrubsYou CAN'T shut down a guy like Antonio Gates unless something is phisically wrong with him
I guess you haven't paid attention to the Patriots under this regime. That's kind of Bill's M.O... To take away your best player and make other guys beat you. And Bill>Gates. Perhaps the greatest coach ever is capable of game planning an opposing player out of a game.
 
I guess you haven't paid attention to the Patriots under this regime.
And I guess you haven't paid attention to Gates physical conditions during the summer
I like the mis-direction there. Billicheck who is known as a genius of a coach most notably takes away an opposing teams biggest threat for a decade now, and you think that Antonio Gates is above that. He's not. No one is. Gates was healthy for the game, although I think he got nicked up on that sideline pass that he dropped. You can ignore the Patriots MO all you want. It doesn't change the fact that he's known to do it, and he did it today. Patrick Chung along with a linebacker was on him all game. The bracketed him, they doubled him. They took him away.
 
And as far as the summer foot issues goes... Where were those last week when he was putting up catch after catch? Where was he on the injury report this week? He wasn't. The Patriots took him out of the game.

 
Pats took him away and left single coverage on VJax who had a monster game.
Is that the polite way to say that he's old & injured ?
Nope. He was mauled at the line by a linebacker and then had a safety overtop on most plays. Gates may or may not have been injured, but he had a lot of attention for 4 qtrs.
This. I recall seeing maybe 2 or 3 targets all game. Rarely got free release off of the line and was badgered all game.
 
time to go try to buy low on Gates. I'll throw a bad RB at the J. Charles owner. I need a TE...still waiting for Jared Cook to "break out" :wall:

 
Patriots made Gates a non factor.

link

The fact that they were able to does speak the fact that Gates is less than 100% or less than he was in the past. IMHO

 
Chargers fan who watched the whole game here.

I didn't see many snaps where Gates wasn't immediately double covered.

Another thing to consider, is the defense gets to practice against gronkowski and hernandez all week.

As someone said before, Belichick>Gates. This is true.

 

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