Anyone else think Brees is overrated? (1 Viewer)

[footballguide1]

In my opinion Drew Brees is overrated and that any team that wants him will pay way too much for him.

2 years ago Brees was on the way out averaging about a 72 QB rating and then the Chargers gave up on him a drafted Rivers. However the start were aligned for Brees that year, the Rivers contract holdout helped but the real reason that Brees is overrated is Antonio Gates.

Gates is hands down the best TE in football at 6'4 260 he is huge and fast and is such an inviting target. Here are his stats:

2004 San Diego Chargers 81rec 964yrds 11.9ypc 13tds

2005 San Diego Chargers 89rec 1101yrds 12.4ypc 10tds

the 2004 season was one of, if not, the greatest seasons by a TE

By comparison Brees #s were as follows

2004 San Diego Chargers 65.5pct 3159yrds 27TD 7INT 104.8RAT

2005 San Diego Chargers 64.6pct 3576yrds 24TD 15INT 89.2RAT

Without Gates Brees would have 2195yrds and 14TDs in 2004 and 2475yrds and 14 TDs also in 2005. Now lest say that Brees had an average TE which equates to an additional 185yrds and 1 TD for a grand total of 2380 and 2660 yrds and 15 TDs/yr.

QBs have been ran out of town for much worse stats than that.

Brees is extremely overvalued and will be a letdown to any team that decides to sign him that does not have Gates. It seems that SD would be the best choice for him to choose since Gates is there but if I was the SD GM I would take a chance on Rivers and drop one of the 2 high priced QBs and sign some one else with that $$ perhaps a new OL such as Hutchinson to ease thte transition for Rivers and lean on LT.

Thoughts? Disagreements? Agreements?

 

[gman8343]

You're leaving out that his WRs have been no better than fair, and often quite poor.

I think health is the only real issue with Brees, otherwise I'd be happy to have him on my team.

 

[B-Deep]

You're leaving out that his WRs have been no better than fair, and often quite poor.

I think health is the only real issue with Brees, otherwise I'd be happy to have him on my time.

I agree completely. They have one outstanding receiver (not counting LT2) who is actually their tight end, and you are surprised that Brees' stats go down when he is out?

 

[commisholio]

Are you sure that Gates's 04 season was better than the 05?

Seems like his YPC and total receptions went up in 05, while TDs went down. Since TD scoring is pretty random, I'd call his 05 season better than 04, all in all.

 

[Bears_Man2]

I think Miami's an awesome situation for Brees (solid RB with receiving skills, All-Pro WR, and a very solid TE)

 

[Ozymandias]

I think if you eliminated his good games, you'd find his bad games weren't so good.

 

[P Boy]

I think your argument is a poor one. Sure, throw out Gates' stats. That's convenient. So suppose he goes to a MIA team with Chambers at WR. That's a damn sight better WR than he ever had in SD. Or he goes to DAL where he inherits a vet WR corps that Parcells has turned into a legit aerial threat - Meshawn & Glenn are a damn sight better than the WRs in SD.

The guy had a terrible start to his career because he was thrown into the fire before he was ready. He's had a normal learning curve for a QB, and after 3 seasons in the league he figured out the pro game. That's fairly normal for a QB. His last 2 seasons are much more indicative of what he is capable of than his first 3 seasons. Even in his first 3 seasons he averaged 200 pypg in games where he started & wasn't relieved - that'll get you to 3200+ yds passing per season every year at a minimum.

I'll tell you what, as a DEN fan I'd swap Brees for Plummer straight up in a heart beat and not look back. Some team is going to get a proven QB just coming into his prime, and with a team like MIA or DAL, it just may be enough to flip the team into an instant contender.

 

[Synthesizer]

Why would you remove Gates' numbers when evaluating Brees? Isn't it Brees who's throwing him the ball? I would actually consider this a positive sign for Brees since every team knows that Gates is going to get the ball all day, but nobody could stop Brees from delivering it to him.

And if you're just going use stats to claim that Brees is overrated, you're missing the big picture. He's got a good command of the huddle, other players enjoy being around him and working hard with him, he's accurate, he's mobile, and the Chargers are 21-11 over the past 2 seasons. At least 2/3 of the teams in the league would love to have him as their starter right now.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Brees has proven that he can be a very effective quarterback, but he has to be in the right system.

He lacks height and arm strength. In 2003, the Chargers had him take deep dropbacks and try to work the ball in to David Boston on intermediate routes. Since the OL was so bad, the team had to keep extra guys in to block, often sending only two receivers into the pattern. As a result, those guys were double-teamed, and it wasn't a matter of reading the defense to find the open guy -- it was a matter of waiting for a guy to beat double-coverage and break open for a split second, and then zing the ball into him twenty yards downfield.

Brees did not have the arm to be effective in that type of offense.

He is, however, very comfortable at spreading the field horizontally and making quick reads. He'd probably do very well in a west coast offense. His deep ball isn't very good, but he can be accurate on short and intermediate routes.

He doesn't have great physical ability, but he has a very good understanding of the game and fantastic intangible qualities (leadership, coolness under pressure).

He will fail or succeed depending on the type of situation he finds himself in. Give him a solid OL and a timing-based offense that lets him take short drops and release the ball quickly, and he'll be fine. Force him to take seven-step drops and make deep throws, and he'll struggle.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think your argument is a poor one. Sure, throw out Gates' stats. That's convenient. So suppose he goes to a MIA team with Chambers at WR. That's a damn sight better WR than he ever had in SD. Or he goes to DAL where he inherits a vet WR corps that Parcells has turned into a legit aerial threat - Meshawn & Glenn are a damn sight better than the WRs in SD.

The guy had a terrible start to his career because he was thrown into the fire before he was ready. He's had a normal learning curve for a QB, and after 3 seasons in the league he figured out the pro game. That's fairly normal for a QB. His last 2 seasons are much more indicative of what he is capable of than his first 3 seasons. Even in his first 3 seasons he averaged 200 pypg in games where he started & wasn't relieved - that'll get you to 3200+ yds passing per season every year at a minimum.

I'll tell you what, as a DEN fan I'd swap Brees for Plummer straight up in a heart beat and not look back. Some team is going to get a proven QB just coming into his prime, and with a team like MIA or DAL, it just may be enough to flip the team into an instant contender.

McCardell is just as good as Meshawn or Glen.

I agree with Brees though. He can start for a ton of teams in this league.

 

[bostonfred]

Who cares if he's a little overrated. How often does a veteran pro bowl QB become a free agent? Would you rather spend a top 3 pick and a ton of cash chasing a quarterback that will take years to develop and may not pan out, or spend a little more money on a veteran who can step in and be at least average and still have that top three pick?

 

[P Boy]

McCardell is just as good as Meshawn or Glen. I agree with Brees though. He can start for a ton of teams in this league.

I agree with McCardell = Meshawn or Glenn. But McCardell + any other SD WR is not on par with Meshawn + Glenn. Not even close, IMO.

 

[TheLaw]

I never have been impressed by Brees, and with the labrum issue he is total buyer beware IMO.

 

[jonessed]

He needs to be on the right team. He's not big nor does he have a strong arm, but he is smart and very accurate. His inability to stretch the field is his major flaw. He fit quite well in SD with Gates and LT and he would probably fit well in Dallas or Miami. He could also end up back in SD. It's tough to say right now.

 

[Bri]

I don't care for the wideouts the Chargers start(like their young guns) so I think he's done a very nice job. I'd like to see what he could do with a stud #1 WR.

 

[cstu]

He needs to be on the right team. He's not big nor does he have a strong arm, but he is smart and very accurate. His inability to stretch the field is his major flaw. He fit quite well in SD with Gates and LT and he would probably fit well in Dallas or Miami. He could also end up back in SD. It's tough to say right now.

The Browns should sign him day one of free agency. It's the closest he'll get to the Chargers and won't be expected to do much beyond hand off and throw to Winslow.

 

[Bri]

He needs to be on the right team.  He's not big nor does he have a strong arm, but he is smart and very accurate.  His inability to stretch the field is his major flaw.  He fit quite well in SD with Gates and LT and he would probably fit well in Dallas or Miami.  He could also end up back in SD.  It's tough to say right now.

The Ravens should sign him day one of free agency. It's the closest he'll get to the Chargers and won't be expected to do much beyond hand off and throw to Winslow.

Browns?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

In my opinion Drew Brees is overrated and that any team that wants him will pay way too much for him.

2 years ago Brees was on the way out averaging about a 72 QB rating and then the Chargers gave up on him a drafted Rivers. However the start were aligned for Brees that year, the Rivers contract holdout helped but the real reason that Brees is overrated is Antonio Gates.

Gates is hands down the best TE in football at 6'4 260 he is huge and fast and is such an inviting target. Here are his stats:

2004 San Diego Chargers 81rec 964yrds 11.9ypc 13tds

2005 San Diego Chargers 89rec 1101yrds 12.4ypc 10tds

the 2004 season was one of, if not, the greatest seasons by a TE

By comparison Brees #s were as follows

2004 San Diego Chargers 65.5pct 3159yrds 27TD 7INT 104.8RAT

2005 San Diego Chargers 64.6pct 3576yrds 24TD 15INT 89.2RAT

Without Gates Brees would have 2195yrds and 14TDs in 2004 and 2475yrds and 14 TDs also in 2005. Now lest say that Brees had an average TE which equates to an additional 185yrds and 1 TD for a grand total of 2380 and 2660 yrds and 15 TDs/yr.

QBs have been ran out of town for much worse stats than that.

Brees is extremely overvalued and will be a letdown to any team that decides to sign him that does not have Gates. It seems that SD would be the best choice for him to choose since Gates is there but if I was the SD GM I would take a chance on Rivers and drop one of the 2 high priced QBs and sign some one else with that $$ perhaps a new OL such as Hutchinson to ease thte transition for Rivers and lean on LT.

Thoughts? Disagreements? Agreements?

So what your saying is if you take out the passing yards and TDs that went to Brees' best receiver and then look at his stats, they aren't all that impressive.I'm convinced.

But I disagree with you calling Gates the hands down best TE in the league. If you take away his receiving yards and TDs that came from passes thrown by Brees the guy's numbers are pretty terrible and he would rank near the bottom of the league.

 

[LBH]

In my opinion Drew Brees is overrated and that any team that wants him will pay way too much for him.

2 years ago Brees was on the way out averaging about a 72 QB rating and then the Chargers gave up on him a drafted Rivers. However the start were aligned for Brees that year, the Rivers contract holdout helped but the real reason that Brees is overrated is Antonio Gates.

Gates is hands down the best TE in football at 6'4 260 he is huge and fast and is such an inviting target. Here are his stats:

2004 San Diego Chargers 81rec 964yrds 11.9ypc 13tds 

2005 San Diego Chargers 89rec 1101yrds 12.4ypc 10tds

the 2004 season was one of, if not, the greatest seasons by a TE

By comparison Brees #s were as follows

2004 San Diego Chargers 65.5pct 3159yrds 27TD 7INT 104.8RAT

2005 San Diego Chargers 64.6pct 3576yrds 24TD 15INT 89.2RAT

Without Gates Brees would have 2195yrds and 14TDs in 2004 and 2475yrds and 14 TDs also in 2005. Now lest say that Brees had an average TE which equates to an additional 185yrds and 1 TD for a grand total of 2380 and 2660 yrds and 15 TDs/yr.

QBs have been ran out of town for much worse stats than that.

Brees is extremely overvalued and will be a letdown to any team that decides to sign him that does not have Gates. It seems that SD would be the best choice for him to choose since Gates is there but if I was the SD GM I would take a chance on Rivers and drop one of the 2 high priced QBs and sign some one else with that $$ perhaps a new OL such as Hutchinson to ease thte transition for Rivers and lean on LT.

Thoughts? Disagreements? Agreements?

So what your saying is if you take out the passing yards and TDs that went to Brees' best receiver and then look at his stats, they aren't all that impressive.I'm convinced.

But I disagree with you calling Gates the hands down best TE in the league. If you take away his receiving yards and TDs that came from passes thrown by Brees the guy's numbers are pretty terrible and he would rank near the bottom of the league.

Although it should be considered how Brees looked before Gates arrived, and how he may do if he goes to a team without such a viable pass option in Gates

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Gates definitely bailed Brees out a number of times with spectacular catches. But Brees also made some very nice throws to receivers other than Gates.

 

[Banger]

I posted this in another thread....

I think you've seen the best that Brees can do with the Chargers. They have an excellent defense, a great running game and the best TE in the game and the team didn't make the playoffs. With all those things going for him he's only considered what the 10th-12th best qb in the league?

How many games has Brees won? I mean gone out and when LT was average/bad, the defense wasn't good and he put the team on his back and won a game. I'd say maybe 1-2. I just don't think Brees has that type of ability.

 

[rumblinbumblinstumbler]

What do you guys think the best team is for him to go to fantasy wise that needs a QB?

I think Miami is a good fit. Also, I'd think the Cowboys would be a good fit for him, but, I'm not sold they are a good fantasy fit for him.

But, what do you guys think about Detroit in a Martz offense? Bulger doesn't have the strongest arm either, but, he is good at reads and getting it to a specific area of the field. I'm not sure Brees wouldn't be comparable.

 

[coolnerd]

The thing with Brees is not that he is the 2nd coming of who ever, it is the fact that a decent Qb is actually on the market. I mean since the season ended Carr and Harrington who have like a life time what .350 winning percentage together have new coaches talking about we can win with these guys.

 

[Bri]

I think Miami is a good fit. Also, I'd think the Cowboys would be a good fit for him, but, I'm not sold they are a good fantasy fit for him.

Parcells seems fine with Drew Bledsoe. I could see them drafting a youngster to groom but he's plenty OK with Drew Bledsoe as his QB

 

[GregR_2]

...2004 San Diego Chargers 81rec 964yrds 11.9ypc 13tds 2005 San Diego Chargers 89rec 1101yrds 12.4ypc 10tds ...Without Gates Brees would have 2195yrds and 14TDs in 2004 and 2475yrds and 14 TDs also in 2005. Now lest say that Brees had an average TE which equates to an additional 185yrds and 1 TD for a grand total of 2380 and 2660 yrds and 15 TDs/yr.

An average TE gets about 500 yards and 3 TDs, not 185 yards and 1 TD.Brees throws to Gates about 140 times a season and resulted in the yards you say above. An average TE gets thrown to about 60 times a season. So you're giving Brees 0 yards for the other 80 pass attempts he's going to be throwing to someone other than his TE now.Let's be overly pessimistic and say he reverts to his 3rd year stats, 5.9 yards per attempt (his worst of his career). That's another 472 yards for 80 attempts. So between the true average TE and those extra pasess, that is about 970 more yards that should be added into his stats. Which puts him at about 3100 and 3450 yards.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I do think Brees is overrated. But that said, he's an above average QB. And a solid, established QB is so hard to find in this league. There are a lot of teams with a starting QB that will never amount to anything. Brees would be an upgrade over these guys. So his value is going to be slightly overstated. But he is a rare commodity.

 

[R.White]

Personally I believe Brees has been over rated in previous years. However values of players change every season. This season there is a demand for QB's, and Brees is the lone Young Pro Bowl calibur QB possibly to hit the market. AND he is better than several other teams projected starters. I also agree that (like with most all QB's) the system will be important. I really think (despite his lack of ideal size and athleticism) that he has figured out how to be a successful NFL QB. I also think he will help somebody get better in 2006. I'd like to see a team that is very close, take a chance on him.

IMHO he would be an upgrade in...

Buffalo

Miami

NY Jets

Baltimore

Cleveland

Pittsburgh?(QB friendly system)

Houston

Jacksonville

Tennessee

Denver

Oakland

San Diego

Dallas

NY Giants

Philadelphia?

Washington

Chicago

Detroit

Green Bay?

Minnesota

Atlanta

Carolina?

New Orleans

Tampa Bay

Arizona

Saint Louis

San Francisco

With a few debatable situations, Brees would be an upgrade on most teams.

He's probably Under-rated if anything, for the 2006 season?Again just my opinion.

RW

 

[lod2005]

Antonio Gates will wish he hadn't left. He will be wondering what happened by week 3 with Rivers at QB.

 

[msommer]

The thing with Brees is not that he is the 2nd coming of who ever, it is the fact that a decent Qb is actually on the market. I mean since the season ended Carr and Harrington who have like a life time what .350 winning percentage together have new coaches talking about we can win with these guys.

Exactly - Brees' value is a function of the (lame) competition he has this year.

 

[BoltBacker]

The thing with Brees is not that he is the 2nd coming of who ever, it is the fact that a decent Qb is actually on the market. I mean since the season ended Carr and Harrington who have like a life time what .350 winning percentage together have new coaches talking about we can win with these guys.

Exactly - Brees' value is a function of the (lame) competition he has this year.

I think his competition are the QB's coming out of this years draft.Several teams need to make the decision whether to make a move for one of the top 3 QB's in the draft and sign a stop-gap guy like Kerry Collins until the rookie is ready OR spend a bunch of dough on Brees and hope for a full recovery. You pretty much know the limitations of a healthy Brees but for all we know one of the big three rookie QB's could be the next Big Ben.

That's what makes a team like MIA appear to be such a perfect fit. They need and want a younger QB. They don't want to part with the compensation it would take to draft one of the big three rookie QB's. Even if they did I'm not sure they'd want to wait the length of time for that QB to develop so a tested veteran like Brees would seem to be more preferable.

 

[cstu]

He needs to be on the right team. He's not big nor does he have a strong arm, but he is smart and very accurate. His inability to stretch the field is his major flaw. He fit quite well in SD with Gates and LT and he would probably fit well in Dallas or Miami. He could also end up back in SD. It's tough to say right now.

The Ravens should sign him day one of free agency. It's the closest he'll get to the Chargers and won't be expected to do much beyond hand off and throw to Winslow.

Browns?

Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm not sure what to think of Frye though. He did well for a rookie and the Browns should give him a chance.

 

[cstu]

I think Miami is a good fit. Also, I'd think the Cowboys would be a good fit for him, but, I'm not sold they are a good fantasy fit for him.

Parcells seems fine with Drew Bledsoe. I could see them drafting a youngster to groom but he's plenty OK with Drew Bledsoe as his QB

It would give Brees a year to recover, something I really think would be good for him.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

What are the chances of Brees being back in San Diego?

 

[cstu]

What are the chances of Brees being back in San Diego?

The fans still have hope, but I can't see him swallowing his pride to come back. He'll also get more guaranteed money somewhere else.

 

[BoltBacker]

What are the chances of Brees being back in San Diego?

I'd guess 25% but it's really going to depend an awful lot on how each teams doctor evaluation of that shoulder goes. I'd like to see him back but my guess would be somebody out there would be willing to gamble on his recovery. If the memory of Pennington/Couch weren't so fresh in everyones mind he'd probably have a better chance of getting more offers.

 

[Raider Nation]

Funny to look back at how Brees was viewed before the mad scientist got a hold of him.

 

[chook]

I was ready to jump into this thread and start throwing all sorts of insults around, stating how flippin' awesome Brees is.

Funny bump

 

[cstu]

There was no question in my mind after 2004 that he was great QB, but I was absolutely amazed at how fast he recovered from the torn labrum and started off hot in 2006 with the Saints. I'm also surprised how much he's improved his deep throws, something I knocked him for while he was in SD.

 

[Breesisdaman]

There was no question in my mind after 2004 that he was great QB, but I was absolutely amazed at how fast he recovered from the torn labrum and started off hot in 2006 with the Saints. I'm also surprised how much he's improved his deep throws, something I knocked him for while he was in SD.

Dr. Anderson is a miracle worker. Brees claims the surgery and rehab following actually strengthened his arm.

 

[Jason Wood]

We're really bumping threads from four years ago?

 

[ATC1]

There was no question in my mind after 2004 that he was great QB, but I was absolutely amazed at how fast he recovered from the torn labrum and started off hot in 2006 with the Saints. I'm also surprised how much he's improved his deep throws, something I knocked him for while he was in SD.

Dr. Anderson is a miracle worker. Brees claims the surgery and rehab following actually strengthened his arm.

Dr. Andrews?

 

[Breesisdaman]

There was no question in my mind after 2004 that he was great QB, but I was absolutely amazed at how fast he recovered from the torn labrum and started off hot in 2006 with the Saints. I'm also surprised how much he's improved his deep throws, something I knocked him for while he was in SD.

Dr. Anderson is a miracle worker. Brees claims the surgery and rehab following actually strengthened his arm.

Dr. Andrews?

yea I meant Andrews. Dr. James Andrews.http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3673275

 

[Otis]

There was no question in my mind after 2004 that he was great QB, but I was absolutely amazed at how fast he recovered from the torn labrum and started off hot in 2006 with the Saints. I'm also surprised how much he's improved his deep throws, something I knocked him for while he was in SD.

Dr. Anderson is a miracle worker. Brees claims the surgery and rehab following actually strengthened his arm.

Dr. Andrews?

yea I meant Andrews. Dr. James Andrews.http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3673275

You mean Dr. Andrews fan, right?

 

[karmarooster]

Funny to look back at how Brees was viewed before the mad scientist got a hold of him.

I was ready to jump into this thread and start throwing all sorts of insults around, stating how flippin' awesome Brees is.Funny bump

We're really bumping threads from four years ago?

Actually that was a really interesting read. Not that it was a bad OP... it's just amazing how things can change in just a few years in the NFL. likely there's a "Brees" sort of QB out there who might go from average to excellent with the right change. and it's easier to suspect an elite QB like Ryan to be that guy, but he could be someone much less celebrated.ETA: Henne, Leinart, Campbell, Kolb, Cassell?

 

[Harrassment Panda]

Actually that was a really interesting read. Not that it was a bad OP... it's just amazing how things can change in just a few years in the NFL. likely there's a "Brees" sort of QB out there who might go from average to excellent with the right change. and it's easier to suspect an elite QB like Ryan to be that guy, but he could be someone much less celebrated.ETA: Henne, Leinart, Campbell, Kolb, Cassell?

While Jason Campbell is not as good as Brees was when he left the Chargers, I think he could be very good with some stability and a big target to throw to.