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We tried, hard, for 3.5 years. It didn't help. When your son is crying his eyes out in your arms because he can't control himself, knows that he's so different from , and so desperately wants help, you'll do anything. So what are your qualifications Hooper?'Hooper31 said:
I have to admit that before I had kids I always thought "ADHD" was code for "I'm a spolied brat with bad parents" but I can assure you it isn't. It can be objectively tested AND analyzed. We had about 20 hours of testing done by Children's Hospital & another 20 hours of testing by the SSD. Then another 2 weeks, spread over 2 months, of observation at school.'Hooper31 said:
Although you may be around kids that have it, you don't have any idea until you live it. Speaking for our son (we have two and our youngest is nothing like our oldest, again he also has mile Asperger's as well as severe ADHD which we are told is very rare) He always tries his hardest at school to control himself. He still has issues from time-to-time but now he has IEP people that specialize in these orders to help him. We actually moved 4 months ago (far away from everything & everyone I know & love) just to get him a school that offered students like him specialized help. It has made a dramatic difference so far.Again, until you are around a kid with ADHD 24/7 for an extended period of time, it really is hard to understand.'Hooper31 said:
To answer your first question, I honestly know. I don't have any friends or family (other than myself at my son's age) that have kids diagnosed with ADHD.Your second statement'Hooper31 said:
, yeah, there is. Are you really saying only blood tests are valid tests? Do you test your students or just DNA test their hair?
I have no problem with dissenting opinions. I do believe some kids are medicated as an easy way out but I also believe some kids really do suffer from ADHD/ADD and benefit from medication. We've held off for a long time and tried other alternatives but nothing has worked. Our son is not one of many kids in the class that act up, we have been told in pre-k, kindergarted, 1st grade, and now 2nd grade that he is the worst in the class. It is starting to affect his grades and his socialization.'Hooper31 said:
You can probably throw in PTSD, major depression, autism, and a bunch of other maladies in the same bucket. Fwiw, ALL these things MAY be testable... we just don't have the technology yet.
I don't keep a notebook but I have an excellent memory.You really don't know what you are talking about. You can find plenty of convincing articles about how vaccinations leading to Austism too. Of course Autism doesn't exist because there isn't a blood test for it.You can testify what you have witnessed, I'm telling you what I have lived through. My youngest (almost 5) has none of these issues. It isn't parenting, it's biological.'Hooper31 said:
We've tried more strategies than you can imagine. Again, coupled with Asperger's, (at the age of 3 he could run the DVD/DVR had every song on the Beatles 6 DVD set memorized & knew some of the quick keys in Excel) medication has been a God send. Psychological approaches don't work for my kid. You may have some success in your class but that doesn't translate to the home environment. Again, you honestly don't understand Autism until you live with it 24/7, day, after day, after day.'Hooper31 said:
One reason I don't get in too deep a discussion about these issues on this board. Too many holier-than-thous and know-it-alls who really aren't any better than anyone else and who don't know jack. You're right. Until you've lived with it, you just don't get it. And, even as much as I've dealt with my own Asperger's Syndrome, my son's bipolar/ADHD issues, my step-daughter's PTSD and major depression, my ex-wife's bipolar issues, I really don't have much in the way of advice to offer anyone on any of these subjects. And believe me, I've worked with some of the best shrinks in the world on these... most professors at Harvard Medical School. About all you can do is what you think is the best thing for your own situation and try to muddle through the best you can. And it ain't easy. I have found that having a sense of humor about the day-to-day mishaps can be a big help, though.
You know what used to be a strategy for dealing with ADD AD/HD kids? Corporal punishment...paddling, swatting, rulers on the knuckles etc and they worked...temporarily. You know why? Because the pain, the fear, and the anxiety caused basically the same chemical "rush" in the brain that stimulants do.'Hooper31 said:
This article totally mischaracterizes how stimulants work for folks with ADHD. When kids that have ADHD take stimulants, they work differently than with folks who do not. While both parties will be able to stay focused for longer periods of time, kids with ADHD report feeling calm, while folks without ADHD will feel speedy, energized, or anxious. Giving a kid stimulant medication is really the best way to figure out whether or not they have ADHD. It's the best test out there. Sure kids can fake self reports, but kids without ADHD will respond to stimulants with behaviors that can be objectively observed, such as picking, nervous tics, sleeplessness, increased agitation, or aggression. If you see these behaviors or you kid says they feel "amped" or "energized", either their dosage is way off, or they don't have ADHD. That said, stimulants will still "work" for kids who do not have ADHD in the sense that they'll be able to focus for longer periods of time (just as anybody will taking uppers), and this is how these meds end up being overprescribed.'Hooper31 said:
Yeah, well [redacted by request] is a middle school math teacher. Check and Mate.
Wrong again you ignoramus.'Hooper31 said:
fwiw, the Joseph Biederman cited in footnote 19 is the one who made the initial diagnosis of bipolar/adhd in my son. And he spent like 3 full days evaluating him. The article, on page 3, makes reference to time constraints imposed by managed care, possibly resulting in errors in diagnosing adhd. The patients seen by Biederman and his team have generally hit the bottom of the barrel, having gone through many, many shrinks without success. They come from all over the U.S. as a last resort. Many marriages get torn apart because parents do not fully understand the problems with their kid... they may wind up blaming each other for not handling the kid properly, etc. So upwards of 80% of Biederman's patients are from broken homes.. ours included. To get our son help, we wound up consenting to use him as a guinea pig in Biederman's clinical trials. So instead of managed care footing the bill for the diagnosis, it was big pharma... a BIG reason why he was able to spend 3 full days on the diagnosis - to ensure a proper diagnosis before including my son in his study. No way would managed care have paid for the time it took to make the diagnosis. At the end of the clinical trial, the question then comes up regarding continuing care for the patient... this is how we got our boy "into" the MGH system... after the trial, we continued to see highly qualified shrinks on the Biederman team on a private-pay basis.
Fibromyalgia is a disease that cannot be confirmed through definitive scientific tests, but tell sufferers it is a 'made up' disease. It is also far more common in women than men, should we assume women just can't deal with pain as well as men? Ridiculous.While there may be a very small percentage of parents who would rather medicate their child than work with them, I'd wager there is a much larger percentage of parents of 'normal' kids who take no interest in their child's education, behavior etc. For most parents it is not an easy decision to medicate your child and by no means is medicine a cure all and anyone with an ADD child fully understands this. While college kids may be faking ADD to get meds to help study for finals, a child with ADD requires intensive work even with meds. My son was diagnosed with ADD, Tourette's and mild OCD. If not for medication he'd never make it through school, and my wife & I work with him nightly on school work, weekends and vacation. I'd pay 5x the co-pay if we could give him the medicine and have him get through school like everyone else. I too am open to other's opinions, but like others have said, unless you've lived with it you have no idea.'Hooper31 said:
Any insinuation of 'bad parenting' is extremely insulting. By no means am I claiming to be the Dr Spock of parenting,but to consider ADD a result of parenting is ignorant. I have seen plenty of 'normal' kids whose parents let them run wild. I've coached numerous youth sports teams and have witnessed numerous non-ADD kids who act like terrors because their parents let them. Yet they have no problems in school. When my son stops in the middle of a math problem to stare at his pencil point for an extended period, or needs to be tapped on the shoulder in class to 'bring him back', it wouldn't matter if I was Ward Cleaver, he needs medication.'Hooper31 said:
No kid on Ritalin is being "drugged into submission". This isn't Thorazine we're talking about here. I'm not saying that there can't be serious negative side effects, but shrieking about "drugging kids into submission" isn't the type of language thats going to generate any discussion.'Hooper31 said:Are you saying it doesn't happen? By me bringing it up does that mean that's all that's happening? is there no middle ground?'Hooper31 said:Get over yourself.
I don't think it is defensive as much as people just think you are wrong. A bunch of anecdotal and folksy evidence isn't enough to support the strong language you've used in this thread. I'd advise you to educate yourself on this subject. From the silly questions you have posted in here in support of your position, it's very clear you don't have an understanding of ADHD or mental health in general.'Hooper31 said:
The problem is you keep insinuating that anyone who chooses medication for their child is drugging them into submission.Its a ridiculous notion.'Hooper31 said:Are you saying it doesn't happen? By me bringing it up does that mean that's all that's happening? is there no middle ground?'Hooper31 said:
Pretty sure Hooper called dibs on being the wrongest person in this thread, guy. Ease back.
Great news! Others aren't so lucky.
I knew a guy that thought he had cancer. He went to a doctor and they ran tests. Cancer free. Cancer is a hoax.
What is rediculous? I stated fax about our situation which will obviously shape my views about the situation. Perhaps I am wrong and can easily admit this.You stated, well, nothing of substance.Do you think Einstein would have been labeled ADHD by today's standards? How about Michelangelo? Beethoven? How abot Van Gogh? I submit one of these four needed meds but not all. I think kids need to grow up a bit before we medicate them... call me rediculous.eta: four
Oooo- I think I get to be the one to call "strawman". Who on Earth suggested that Beethoven or Michelangelo had trouble concentrating or sitting still? Just naming random famous people really isn't relevant.The ridiculous part comes where a non-professional told you your child had ADHD, but the professionals corrected the misdiagnosis. In no fashion does this mean the diagnosis doesn't exist or that some other child needs early intervention for the best results.So get over it.
Thanks for helping me make my point... you don't have children but are in here giving advice to the OP who has a gut-wrenching decision to make that you could never understand. You feel power by pointing out that I mispelled a word... congrats. My point is twofold: 1: If the OP is considering medication he should consider all information available to him (which is a ton to digest), 2: No matter what he does his son will likely turn out just fine. As parents we tend to agonize over every detail when, just perhaps, we don't have too. Only time can tell I guess.It's definitely a polarizing topic and I sympathize with the OP as the the consensus, advertising, lobbying community, etc. lead people to think medication is the best option. I totally respect those that decided to medicate, those that decided to not medicate, and those in between...its difficult to decide what to do. I also understand that medication is the best choice sometimes and have seen this work as well. I also know that the pressure to comply with what the educators feel is strong and should be considered. Good luck with your decision, OP and others facing this decision.eta: sometimes
Amd this is just plain wrong. I have no children. That doesn't mean I cannot understand or sympathise with those whose children have this problem. Are pediatricians who don't have kids unqualified? How about oncalogists who've never had cancer? I've never been enslaved, imprisoned, or tortured either. But plainly some people who have never had these experiences relate to them, or we wouldn't have organizations such as Doctors Without Borders.If all we can know about are the things we personally experienced, we are all in deep doodoo.
I was thinking of you as I dropped my son at the bus stop today. Before medication, it would have been impossible for him to be there at all. Now I watch, as I do every day, with a broken heart, as he has to stand far away from the group of kids because it causes him so much anxiety.'Hooper31 said:
I almost certainly have it as well. Watching my son grow up has brought back bad memories of my early childhood. Teachers like Hooper liked to classify me and others like me as just being bad kids. I was cast aside as unteachable, a trouble maker, a low life that would never amount to anything. I would like to pummel people like this. This isn't shtick.
My Grandfather faked it to his death and my grandmother isn't too far behind.
Now you're just making words up.
My contention is that most teachers do not know how to effectively deal with ADHD children. My son is now in 4th grade, and he has only had one teacher who was able to have the patience to keep him on task, and she was an absolute blessing. Unfortunately this teacher is in a huge minority of competent individuals.Public education is mostly about conformity, and these kids do not conform to the structure that is currently in place. And teachers are either too lazy, too incompetent, or they are not given the resources to be able to give these kids the attention that they need. So by and large ADHD kids are labeled as disruptive trouble makers.
And yet there are a whole hell of a lot of kids out there that have all of those things yet still have ADD/ADHD. Why don't we concentrate on those kids instead of trying to cherry pick "over-diagnosed" and "over prescribed".
You never answered my question, Dr. Spock.Do you think that parents who give their kids meds for depression or bipolar disorder should try other methods to get their kids to "snap out of it"? Maybe something along the lines of "abuse it and lose it". Something like "cheer up or get out" or "stop moping so there's no doping"?'Hooper31 said:
Since you want to talk teacher, and anecdotal evidence, my wife (my 8 year-old’s step-mom) has taught in a public HS for 14 years. Prior to moving in with us and living with my son (half the time), she had a very similar stance on the issue as you do. “It’s the easy way out to call a kid ADHD,” “The parents don’t work hard enough to raise their kids right,” “It didn’t exist years ago, why all of a sudden does it now?”She moved in when my son was 2 ½. By the time he was 5, SHE was the one that urged me and his mom to get him tested because she could plainly see all of the things she previously thought would “cure” kids that supposedly had ADHD just weren’t working. It was something beyond anyone’s control, especially his own. She still has students she’s cynical about that have Special Ed plans and accommodations, but because she’s lived and experienced a “true” case of it, she’s able to better deal with the kids that truly need it. Before, and she has admitted this, she probably did a disservice to a lot of kids by being ignorant to the situation they were in.'Hooper31 said:
Really? I've yet to meet one ADD/ADHD or not.
I agree there. Would love to just focus on the legit cases that have tried all the non-med adjustments. Unfortunately, I don't think there are too many of those.
I don't agree.
