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***Archery Thread*** (1 Viewer)

The Gator said:
What kind of bows is your family shooting for these comps? 
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I am a severe bow whore.   :wub:   I have had so many over the years that I couldn't begin to list them out.

Right now I'm shooting the PSE Evolve 35.  Probably the best do-it-all bow out there.  I've hunted with it, have been shooting indoor spots, and will be using it for 3D this spring/summer.  I can go on forever on why each discipline usually requires a different bow.  :nerd:    I'm just waiting for PSE to release the left handed target models that are using the same cam system this bow has.  It's easily my favorite cams of all time.

My wife is shooting an OK Absolute 38.  It's German made - easily the highest quality bow out there.  I used to shoot them for years, but changed recently because, well, I'm a whore.

My son is shooting a PSE Phenom SD (short draw - he's only 11 and 23.5" draw length).  Awesome target bow for the money.  I'd highly recommend the Phenom to any archer looking to get their first dedicated target bow since it's a lot cheaper than all other target bows, but still a high quality rig.

 
Ned said:
I am a severe bow whore.   :wub:   I have had so many over the years that I couldn't begin to list them out.

Right now I'm shooting the PSE Evolve 35.  Probably the best do-it-all bow out there.  I've hunted with it, have been shooting indoor spots, and will be using it for 3D this spring/summer.
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My brother shoots a PSE and loves it :thumbup:

I'm actually doing my first 3D shoot next month. Pretty excited since the pig hunting around here has been slow. 

 
The Gator said:
My brother shoots a PSE and loves it :thumbup:

I'm actually doing my first 3D shoot next month. Pretty excited since the pig hunting around here has been slow. 
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Awesome!  I'm surprised to see an NFAA 3D shoot - they're not terribly common out here.  Maybe they're more common in CA (I didn't know you were out there).

Do you know what class you're shooting?  I'm gonna guess BHFS (Bowhunter Freestyle)

How close are you to this?  Its a bucket list shoot for me.

 
Ned said:
Awesome!  I'm surprised to see an NFAA 3D shoot - they're not terribly common out here.  Maybe they're more common in CA (I didn't know you were out there).

Do you know what class you're shooting?  I'm gonna guess BHFS (Bowhunter Freestyle)

How close are you to this?  Its a bucket list shoot for me.
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I assume BHFS, but not sure as my brother is signing us up. 

Redding is about a 5hr drive for me. Pretty sure @Men-in-Cleats could put us up for the weekend there for the shoot :excited:

 
***I’ve written and rewritten this post a bunch of times to try not to sound like jerk. Maybe I’m just a jerk? I will just try to be straight forward and hopefully everyone understands I’m just trying to ask/learn.***

I am looking to get into bow hunting and am in need of some advice on what bow and setup to get. The thing is, I just hunt for meat so what I want is whatever the easiest bow setup would be to take down deer, elk, moose. Crossbows are not allowed in archery season. I’m okay with spending the money to get a proper setup. Especially, if it means only having to buy 1 and it’s good for everything and lasts forever.

It seems like most of the time hunters talk amount “a real hunter doesn’t need that” but I’m not concerned with that at all. I will take every advantage I can get. I also have zero issues with being a manly man. So if you all recommend the lowest draw weight (40lbs is the minimum for my area) then that’s the path I will start down. 

What I think I need... Compound bow, arrows, tips, peep sight, pin sight, release, quiver. I’m not sure if that’s everything. As far as brands/models and versions or types of things, I have no idea. I will be researching things but thought I would ask in this thread first.

Thank you in advance.

Edit: I will post any good articles I find in a spoiler below for others. 

Wide Open Spaces: Beginner Bow Setup

How to Choose a Bow

Elk Arrows?

What is Arrow Spine
 
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Borden said:
***I’ve written and rewritten this post a bunch of times to try not to sound like jerk. Maybe I’m just a jerk? I will just try to be straight forward and hopefully everyone understands I’m just trying to ask/learn.***

I am looking to get into bow hunting and am in need of some advice on what bow and setup to get. The thing is, I just hunt for meat so what I want is whatever the easiest bow setup would be to take down deer, elk, moose. Crossbows are not allowed in archery season. I’m okay with spending the money to get a proper setup. Especially, if it means only having to buy 1 and it’s good for everything and lasts forever.

It seems like most of the time hunters talk amount “a real hunter doesn’t need that” but I’m not concerned with that at all. I will take every advantage I can get. I also have zero issues with being a manly man. So if you all recommend the lowest draw weight (40lbs is the minimum for my area) then that’s the path I will start down. 

What I think I need... Compound bow, arrows, tips, peep sight, pin sight, release, quiver. I’m not sure if that’s everything. As far as brands/models and versions or types of things, I have no idea. I will be researching things but thought I would ask in this thread first.

Thank you in advance.
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First off, glad to see someone else interested in the sport!  I've been in the sport to varying degrees for 32 years now and still can't get enough.

Have you shot before?  How you answer that will drive the advice... Picture someone wanting to start golf.  If they've never swung a club before, it's hard to suggest them buying the latest set of Taylor Made irons/driver when they're likely not going to get the full use out of them.  Also - what works for me may not work for you.  Archery is a very personal sport, which unfortunately means its a buy and try kinda deal.  

Do you have any local shops around you?  DO NOT trust anything the salesman say at the big box stores (Cabelas, ****'s, etc).  Odds are they're next to clueless. 

All of the big name brands are going to be very good.  PSE, Hoyt, Prime, Elite, Bowtech, etc all have their own little twist on trying to achieve the same result - something that's reliable, shootable, and consistent for a wide range of archers.  Each one of them have a slightly different feel, so best I can tell you is to go out and try a few models from each brand and see what feels best.

Generally speaking, you're going to want a bow, arrow rest (I'm a big fan of the Hamskea rest), peep, sight (single or multi pin is a personal preference - I use a hybrid), and stabilizer(s).  You'll want a release aid, which again is a huge personal preference thing.  I shoot the Stan SX3 for all disciplines, but also use a Scott Backspin when I work on my form.  For arrows, you'll want to be setup with the correct spine that matches your bow setup (draw length and weight).  From there, you'll want field points for practice and broadheads for hunting.  

I can go on and on and on, so hoping the above gets the thoughts/questions churning....

 
Ned said:
First off, glad to see someone else interested in the sport!  I've been in the sport to varying degrees for 32 years now and still can't get enough.

Have you shot before?  How you answer that will drive the advice... Picture someone wanting to start golf.  If they've never swung a club before, it's hard to suggest them buying the latest set of Taylor Made irons/driver when they're likely not going to get the full use out of them.  Also - what works for me may not work for you.  Archery is a very personal sport, which unfortunately means its a buy and try kinda deal.  

Do you have any local shops around you?  DO NOT trust anything the salesman say at the big box stores (Cabelas, ****'s, etc).  Odds are they're next to clueless. 

All of the big name brands are going to be very good.  PSE, Hoyt, Prime, Elite, Bowtech, etc all have their own little twist on trying to achieve the same result - something that's reliable, shootable, and consistent for a wide range of archers.  Each one of them have a slightly different feel, so best I can tell you is to go out and try a few models from each brand and see what feels best.

Generally speaking, you're going to want a bow, arrow rest (I'm a big fan of the Hamskea rest), peep, sight (single or multi pin is a personal preference - I use a hybrid), and stabilizer(s).  You'll want a release aid, which again is a huge personal preference thing.  I shoot the Stan SX3 for all disciplines, but also use a Scott Backspin when I work on my form.  For arrows, you'll want to be setup with the correct spine that matches your bow setup (draw length and weight).  From there, you'll want field points for practice and broadheads for hunting.  

I can go on and on and on, so hoping the above gets the thoughts/questions churning....
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Wow great response. Thanks.

Zero experience with bows. I when I was researching my hunting rifle, there is a few things that helped me reduce the wide array of options out there and I was hoping I could do the same with bows. For example, Vortex Optics has a good reputation for making a quality product and basically a no questions asked return policy but still managed to have competive prices. But even beyond brands, I was able to narrow down the caliber sizes just based on the type of game I will be hunting. I was hoping that I might be able to narrow some options down with bows in this same way. I feel like my ignorance might really be shining through right now. 

There is some local shops which I will stop at but wanted to get a general path forward so I don’t end up just going with what that one person thinks. I have definitely learnt to avoid the box stores for advice. 

 
Borden said:
Wow great response. Thanks.

Zero experience with bows. I when I was researching my hunting rifle, there is a few things that helped me reduce the wide array of options out there and I was hoping I could do the same with bows. For example, Vortex Optics has a good reputation for making a quality product and basically a no questions asked return policy but still managed to have competive prices. But even beyond brands, I was able to narrow down the caliber sizes just based on the type of game I will be hunting. I was hoping that I might be able to narrow some options down with bows in this same way. I feel like my ignorance might really be shining through right now. 

There is some local shops which I will stop at but wanted to get a general path forward so I don’t end up just going with what that one person thinks. I have definitely learnt to avoid the box stores for advice. 
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As far as draw weight is concerned, I'd recommend it 2 ways below; my thinking is that bows today are so damn efficient that you really don't need the high draw weight to hit the animal hard.  I hunted with 70# for 20yrs and recently dropped down to 60# for the sake of comfort.  When you're ice cold, you better be able to draw slowly/quietly and still able to execute a good shot.  If you're drawing too much weight (I see guys "over-bowed" all the time), you're just asking for trouble.  You owe it to the critter you're chasing to make the best shot possible.  :grad:  

  • Deer hunting or 29" and longer draw length = 60#  (you really could get away with 50#)
  • Elk and bigger or less than 29" DL = 70#
Any good shop will be able to get you measured for the proper DL, which is absolutely critical to being accurate and consistent.

 
I'm a huge fan of my IQ sight. It's retina lock is fantastic for preventing you from torquing your bow as a beginner(i'm still a beginner too). That's the main reason why it was recommended to me. I catch myself with too tight of a grip from time to time and that sight helps me realize i need to loosen up. 

ETA, and IQ has a new product out that has a range finder built into the sight if you want to go deep from the get go :lol:

 
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The Gator said:
I'm a huge fan of my IQ sight. It's retina lock is fantastic for preventing you from torquing your bow as a beginner(i'm still a beginner too). That's the main reason why it was recommended to me. I catch myself with too tight of a grip from time to time and that sight helps me realize i need to loosen up. 

ETA, and IQ has a new product out that has a range finder built into the sight if you want to go deep from the get go :lol:
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Check out Garmin’s new sight - it’s genius but just a tad pricey. :eek:  

 
@Ned @The Gator Thank you. 

So far...

A 70# (I will be hunting Elk), IQ retina sight, Hamskea (the Hunter I’m guessing) rest and Stan SX3 release aid. Arrows; Gold Tip - Velocity 

Stabilizers are not something that I was aware of. 

Any suggestions for brand and model on the other stuff? Obviously, reasoning for the suggestions would be nice too. I’m thinking that if I get a build, then I have something to work backwards and/or tweek from there. Also, is most of the gear all compatible? Like any sight will fit any bow and such? Is there a store/distributor that stands above the rest? I see Lancaster seems to be Ned’s go to. 

 
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Borden said:
@Ned @The Gator Thank you. 

So far...

A 70# (I will be hunting Elk), IQ retina sight, Hamskea (the Hunter I’m guessing) rest and Stan SX3 release aid.
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Where do you hunt? I have an elk hunt in Utah planned for Nov and mule deer hunt in Colorado later that month. 

As far as stabilizers, I'd go shoot at your local shop and see if they'll let you try a few out. They'll be able to explain better on what to feel for during your hold/shot, then you get to see if you can tell the difference between a few of them. Also, if you're crafty they're pretty easy to make and customize yourself. 

 
Went out to reset my sight pins to 25, 40, 50, 60, 70 and snapped my D loop mid-draw shooting an arrow gawd knows where. :wall:

 
The Gator said:
Where do you hunt? I have an elk hunt in Utah planned for Nov and mule deer hunt in Colorado later that month. 

As far as stabilizers, I'd go shoot at your local shop and see if they'll let you try a few out. They'll be able to explain better on what to feel for during your hold/shot, then you get to see if you can tell the difference between a few of them. Also, if you're crafty they're pretty easy to make and customize yourself. 
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I’m pretty lucky and live in Alberta (that’s in Canada for those who had never heard of it :D ) which has really good big game hunting. This is the whole reason why I want to get into bow hunting because it opens up so much more of a season.

I’m considering going to a local shop this weekend. The problem is that I am really bad for impulse buying if I don’t have a general plan. But yeah the plan is to go in and get draw distance figured out and maybe learning some other basic knowledge. Thanks for the tip with the stabilizers as a possible DIY project too.

 
@Ned @Cowboysfan8 

From what I’ve read a shorter bow is better for moving around but a longer bow is more forgiving (which I don’t know what that means). I feel like I’m willing trade maneuverability for forgiveness in theory but don’t actually know the practicality of it. The same is said about brace height with speed and forgiveness. 

As far as choosing arrows, from what I’ve read, that is almost 100% dependant on your bow setup? It seems Easton is the top dog for manufacturers and then the bow decides everything else from there. Apparently, weight could be a discussion point when hunting Elk. But that’s getting too far ahead of myself. Elk Arrow reading

Edit: Also I found a cool archery hunting calculator Link. I don’t know enough to use it but I still find it interesting.

 
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can’t believe JustTheFieldTip was an available handle at AT :lol:

going to try and redo my own d loop and see how that goes. 

 
Borden said:
@Ned @Cowboysfan8 

From what I’ve read a shorter bow is better for moving around but a longer bow is more forgiving (which I don’t know what that means). I feel like I’m willing trade maneuverability for forgiveness in theory but don’t actually know the practicality of it. The same is said about brace height with speed and forgiveness. 

The length they're talking about is the axle to axle (ATA) measurement.  A short bow would be anything under ~ 33".  Most hunting bows generally aren't any longer than 35", however there are plenty of guys that will shoot 37"+.  I personally put accuracy and consistency above everything else, but I'm primarly a treestand hunter for whitetails only.  If you're on spot and stalk or in a blind, I can see shooting a shorter ATA bow.  

Another thing to consider with ATA is the string angle, which is going to be a personal preference.  A longer ATA bow will have a more vertical string angle, whereas the shorter ATA will have a steeper angle to it.  There's no right or wrong answer there - it's all going to come down to fit/comfort.

As far as choosing arrows, from what I’ve read, that is almost 100% dependant on your bow setup? It seems Easton is the top dog for manufacturers and then the bow decides everything else from there. Apparently, weight could be a discussion point when hunting Elk. But that’s getting too far ahead of myself. Elk Arrow reading

Easton is a very popular brand and you certainly can't go wrong with them.  I am a big believer in Gold Tip - they're marketed as the toughest arrows in the biz, and I've seen it first hand.  It's the only arrow I'll shoot.  I am using the Velocity's for hunting, Triple X pros for indoor comps, and Series 22 pros for 3D comps.  I do agree with the link in that a smaller diameter arrow that is packing a pretty good weight (450gr +) is going to be a good idea for Elk.  

Once you've chosen an arrow, you'll need a shop to help you select the correct spine which will depend on the DL and DW you're bow is shooting.  Generally, going on the stiffer side is going to be the best idea, especially if you're going to be hunting with fixed blade broadheads.  It's going to be as simple as if you're shooting 70# and don't have a midget DL (like 26"), just grab the 300 spine arrows and be done with it.  There's no such thing as being over-spined any more; don't over think it.

Edit: Also I found a cool archery hunting calculator Link. I don’t know enough to use it but I still find it interesting.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about any of this just yet.
Click to expand...

 
The Gator said:
can’t believe JustTheFieldTip was an available handle at AT :lol:

going to try and redo my own d loop and see how that goes. 
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There's ummmmmmmmm........ how do I say this nicely?  :oldunsure:

A completely different demographic over there than there is here in the FFA.  

ETA: do not venture over to their 'ffa' (Anything and Everything Discussion).  Those guys are downright insane.

 
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The Gator said:
can’t believe JustTheFieldTip was an available handle at AT :lol:

going to try and redo my own d loop and see how that goes. 
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Oh, and Dudley's video is a good overview on how to do your own D loop.  Only thing I disagree with is don't let the ball catch on fire.  You want to melt it into a ball without burning it; when it burns, it tends to crystalize and get crunchy which creates a weak spot.

Check your release for burrs... It may have been fraying your loop without you knowing it.  I've never had one break on me.

Order yourself a spool of BCY #24 and you'll be set for years.  If you're really anal, different colors are stiffer than others.  The black is pretty soft and pliable where blue, purple, green are stiffer.  :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:  

 
Ned said:
Oh, and Dudley's video is a good overview on how to do your own D loop.  Only thing I disagree with is don't let the ball catch on fire.  You want to melt it into a ball without burning it; when it burns, it tends to crystalize and get crunchy which creates a weak spot.

Check your release for burrs... It may have been fraying your loop without you knowing it.  I've never had one break on me.

Order yourself a spool of BCY #24 and you'll be set for years.  If you're really anal, different colors are stiffer than others.  The black is pretty soft and pliable where blue, purple, green are stiffer.  :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:  
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got the d loop done, thanks for the video. 

made a few other adjustments (moved sight to a forward brace gaining 1.5”, added weight to my stabilizer) and went out and put 5/5 arrows in the vital spot of my pig target from 60y.

Now just need to get in reps in as I feel the bow is dialed in.

 
So indoor nationals was a lot of fun last weekend.  I shot really well overall, but let one brain fart hurt me early.  The scoring is 5 for the center with the X being the tie breaker.  You have to shoot 600 to even start to think about competing (60 arrows each day).  The top male amateur shot a perfect 600/120x, which would've put him in the finals with the pros.  That is phenomenal shooting on that stage.  I've shot a handful of 60x games in practice, but never under tournament pressure.

I ended up shooting 299/53x on Saturday  :wall:  and then 300/52x on Sunday.  That 4 was maaaaaaybe 1/64" out - we debated it for a while before agreeing it was out.  I was super disappointed to let such a big miss happen, but that's tournament archery.  :X   I was really happy with how I didn't let that early miss derail my whole weekend.  I worked through the nerves really well on Sunday and made so many good shots.   105x is the highest x-count I've ever had at nationals, so that was a good positive.

My son struggled all weekend - not a good weekend for him, but he still had a lot of fun.  This was his last year as a cub (U12) - kind of bummed to see that chapter close.

My wife struggled on Saturday, but shot really well on Sunday setting a personal best at nationals with a 298/42x.

The mind games that happen in big tournaments is fascinating to me.  You can walk in there with a lot of confidence, but once the adrenaline and anxiety start to pump through you, it turns into a completely different game.  Best way I can describe it is on the first few rounds, your bow that you've shot thousands of practice arrows through will suddenly feel like you picked up someone else's bow.  :loco:  

 
Also made a target. 

Got two 6' 1x4 pieces of poplar, some chicken wire(large spacing ones) and a bunch of plastic wrap from my work. Made a 3x3 frame, wrapped the bottom of it in wire and stuffed a bunch of old clothes that I wrapped in the plastic wrap into the frame. Then I folded over the wire, climbed on top to pack it down and secured the wire on the other side. 

Really through this together quick and it worked, so i'm pretty happy. I can make a really nice one for about $25 now. :thumbup:

 
The Gator said:
Also made a target. 

Got two 6' 1x4 pieces of poplar, some chicken wire(large spacing ones) and a bunch of plastic wrap from my work. Made a 3x3 frame, wrapped the bottom of it in wire and stuffed a bunch of old clothes that I wrapped in the plastic wrap into the frame. Then I folded over the wire, climbed on top to pack it down and secured the wire on the other side. 

Really through this together quick and it worked, so i'm pretty happy. I can make a really nice one for about $25 now. :thumbup:
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And it'll outlast any of those foam targets out there for a fraction of the cost.  I built one 6-7 years ago and it's still going strong.

 
My first hog that I shot ever this weekend got away. Twenty-two yard shot, quartering away and I put the arrow right behind his ribs which should have popped at least one lung. Tracked his blood trail(decent blood trail, air in the blood and some big gushes) for a mile up and down a mountain until we lost the blood trail. Pretty bummed, mostly because it wasn't a clean kill from that close, not that i didn't get to find him. That should have been a quick kill from that distance. 

 
The Gator said:
My first hog that I shot ever this weekend got away. Twenty-two yard shot, quartering away and I put the arrow right behind his ribs which should have popped at least one lung. Tracked his blood trail(decent blood trail, air in the blood and some big gushes) for a mile up and down a mountain until we lost the blood trail. Pretty bummed, mostly because it wasn't a clean kill from that close, not that i didn't get to find him. That should have been a quick kill from that distance. 
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I've never hog hunted, but I've read those are some of the toughest critters out there.  Are you allowed to use a tracking dog?

You're shooting 70# and a 30+ inch DL, right?  How heavy are your arrows?

 
Ned said:
I've never hog hunted, but I've read those are some of the toughest critters out there.  Are you allowed to use a tracking dog?

You're shooting 70# and a 30+ inch DL, right?  How heavy are your arrows?
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Yeah we can hunt with tracking dogs but didn't have any. They are very tough. My brother who hunts all the time said he's seen them shot to where they can't walk on all fours but they'll drag themselves away with just their front legs. Crazy animal 

Yeah, 70# at 31.5" with 450g arrows(350+100 broad head) with magnus stinger four blade broad heads. 

 
The Gator said:
Yeah we can hunt with tracking dogs but didn't have any. They are very tough. My brother who hunts all the time said he's seen them shot to where they can't walk on all fours but they'll drag themselves away with just their front legs. Crazy animal 

Yeah, 70# at 31.5" with 450g arrows(350+100 broad head) with magnus stinger four blade broad heads. 
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Man, that's a shame.  That's a pretty powerful setup.

 
Ned said:
Man, that's a shame.  That's a pretty powerful setup.
Click to expand...
The setup is just about perfect. I start getting diminishing returns on arrows that are >500g and only gain 1ft/lb of kinetic energy on 500g arrows vs 450g while giving up 15 fps. The 450s give me 319 FPS with 101.7 FT/LBS of kinetic energy. 

In other words, this fail falls under user error :sadbanana:

 
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Finally got a coach, we start next week. He's a former paralympic gold medalist Jeff Fabry. I'm thinking about trying some target tournaments... :oldunsure:

 
The Gator said:
Finally got a coach, we start next week. He's a former paralympic gold medalist Jeff Fabry. I'm thinking about trying some target tournaments... :oldunsure:
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Awesome!  Curious how it goes with the coach.  

Indoor spots is a completely different animal from outdoor spots. 

They do drug testing at any World Archery event - just FYI 

 
Finished off strong yesterday.

First thing the coach fixed was setting my bow properly in my bow hand. I was holding it too high on my hand because my hand angle was wrong. It was almost 45° forward so all the weight of the bow was right by my thumb joint instant of spread through my palm better. That alone really helped in steadying my aim.

 
The Gator said:
The setup is just about perfect. I start getting diminishing returns on arrows that are >500g and only gain 1ft/lb of kinetic energy on 500g arrows vs 450g while giving up 15 fps. The 450s give me 319 FPS with 101.7 FT/LBS of kinetic energy. 

In other words, this fail falls under user error :sadbanana:
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Who are you and what have you done with Gator?

 
3D season is starting this weekend for us.  I tend to shift towards working more for the club than shooting for myself this time of year...  I'm running our first shoot of the season on Sunday and then next weekend I'll be running the IBO world championship qualifier at our club.  It's an assload of work, but I enjoy it.  I have a lot of fun coming up with creative new shots - I love the aspect of unknown yardage.

I just picked up $3k worth of targets and inserts from Lancaster last night in prep for the new season.  That puts us at 42 targets in our inventory plus I don't even know how many extra inserts.  Easily over $20k worth of targets.  :loco:  

 
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Ned said:
3D season is starting this weekend for us.  I tend to shift towards working more for the club than shooting for myself this time of year...  I'm running our first shoot of the season on Sunday and then next weekend I'll be running the IBO world championship qualifier at our club.  It's an assload of work, but I enjoy it.  I have a lot of fun coming up with creative new shots - I love the aspect of unknown yardage.

I just picked up $3k worth of targets and inserts from Lancaster last night in prep for the new season.  That puts us at 42 targets in our inventory plus I don't even know how many extra inserts.  Easily over $20k worth of targets.  :loco:  
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Nice, I have a mixed 3D/target shoot this weekend which is also 42 targets.   :hifive:

Will report back

 
My first 3D event was awesome, such a good time.  Pics

Shot pretty well overall, with one really bad shot and a couple of mess-ups on the real really close shots, like from 6 feet.  Already planning one for next weekend :hifive:

 
Last weekend my average was 19.7, averaging 20.6 today through 40 targets with 20 more tomorrow. Best round was a double bullseye from 64 yards on a leopard with about a 15 foot drop. ?

 
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