Are police officers generally held accountable for misconduct? (1 Viewer)

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Saw this poll on another post today. Curious see the FFA's numbers on this.

 

[Clifford]

When you beat a mentally ill man to death and don't go to jail, you are basically a protected class with no laws applying to you, no matter how much of a psychotic ####bag you are.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Almost never.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Unless there's video with no explanation of why an officer acted in the way they did on the video, there's pretty much never accountability.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The expertise I've gained from watching The Wire and Justified tells me the answer is no.

 

[McGarnicle]

Yes, in hell.

 

[NCCommish]

Unless there's video with no explanation of why an officer acted in the way they did on the video, there's pretty much never accountability.

Pretty much

 

[TheAristocrat]

No

 

[James Daulton]

BIL is a cop. The protection is strong with them.

 

[Clifford]

A better question would be, if a cop went up to someone sitting on a park bench, took out his gun, and shot him point blank in the forehead execution style, would the cop see so much as one day in jail. I honestly think the answer could be no.

 

[Zow]

Our exclusionary rule indirectly means they won't personally be held accountant for at least constitutional "misconduct."

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Hate most police officers for a variety of reasons. One of the many reasons I am anti-gun control or outlawing them for American citizens is the fact I don't trust the police department. When you meet a lot of these cops off duty, hard to tell the difference between many of them and the criminals.

 

[Zow]

Unless there's video with no explanation of why an officer acted in the way they did on the video, there's pretty much never accountability.

Pretty much

One of the agencies in my jurisdiction now has all the officers wear on-person video cameras. It rules so much for so many reasons.

A few years ago one of the other agencies tried it. I got one of the first, early cases and the cop flat out punched an older woman in the face without proper provocation (she was being difficult, but hadn't broken any laws, resisted arrest, or physically engaged or threatened the officer). What is scary is that but for my demand for the recording I strongly doubt anyone would have believed that's the way it went down (cop claimed her dog attacked him first, which was BS).

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Are police officers generally ever held accountable for misconduct.

I'd at least have to think about that one.

 

[Ilov80s]

Teachers are the same way. We aren't talking beatings or sex, but verbal abuse, using cell phones (when it is against the rules), not being prepared for class, setting a kid up to get in trouble, etc. Teachers are likely to get away with this stuff for many of the same reasons as cops.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Teachers are the same way. We aren't talking beatings or sex, but verbal abuse, using cell phones (when it is against the rules), not being prepared for class, setting a kid up to get in trouble, etc. Teachers are likely to get away with this stuff for many of the same reasons as cops.

What school are you teaching at? Not saying it doesn't or can't happen but I don't see much of that if at all. Why would a teacher set a kid up to get in trouble only to have to deal with detentions and worse...most of that falls on the teacher to be there at the detention. I don't know any teachers getting paid extra to serve them.

What state are we talking here?

Edit...Detroit?

 

[Ilov80s]

Teachers are the same way. We aren't talking beatings or sex, but verbal abuse, using cell phones (when it is against the rules), not being prepared for class, setting a kid up to get in trouble, etc. Teachers are likely to get away with this stuff for many of the same reasons as cops.

What school are you teaching at? Not saying it doesn't or can't happen but I don't see much of that if at all. Why would a teacher set a kid up to get in trouble only to have to deal with detentions and worse...most of that falls on the teacher to be there at the detention. I don't know any teachers getting paid extra to serve them. What state are we talking here?

Edit...Detroit?

I work in a non charter school, teachers don't deal with detentions. You write a kid up, send them down and they are out of your class for X number of days. I have has conversations with teachers where they have commented that a certain kid is driving them nuts and have baited the kid into an argument to get the kid to lose their cool and swear or say something threatening. It's pathetic, but it happens.

 

[Ilov80s]

At a different school I know of a football coach that didnt want a certain kid on the team because the kid partied and was a trouble maker. He knew his buddy had him in class. He told his buddy to be on the lookout for the kid and find a reason to suspend him so that he ends up intelligible for football.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Teachers are the same way. We aren't talking beatings or sex, but verbal abuse, using cell phones (when it is against the rules), not being prepared for class, setting a kid up to get in trouble, etc. Teachers are likely to get away with this stuff for many of the same reasons as cops.

Speak for yourself, Mary Kay.

 

[Ilov80s]

Teachers are the same way. We aren't talking beatings or sex, but verbal abuse, using cell phones (when it is against the rules), not being prepared for class, setting a kid up to get in trouble, etc. Teachers are likely to get away with this stuff for many of the same reasons as cops.

Speak for yourself, Mary Kay.

Just commenting on what I've observed. It is a small minority.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

One of the agencies in my jurisdiction now has all the officers wear on-person video cameras.

This was going to be where I took this -- I figured most people would vote "no" for this. I was going to ask if there's any way to fix this other than Officers being forced to record audio and video on them at all times they are on duty.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

lol @ comparing cops to teachers. Cops have way more backup and most teachers are not carrying.

 

[timschochet]

Hate most police officers for a variety of reasons. One of the many reasons I am anti-gun control or outlawing them for American citizens is the fact I don't trust the police department. When you meet a lot of these cops off duty, hard to tell the difference between many of them and the criminals.

Wtf?

 

[timschochet]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

 

[GDogg]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

You might be right, but how do you know that? If most police are not held accountable for misconduct, then you'd never know one way or the other, right?

 

[Ilov80s]

lol @ comparing cops to teachers. Cops have way more backup and most teachers are not carrying.

Huh?

 

[Zow]

One of the agencies in my jurisdiction now has all the officers wear on-person video cameras.

This was going to be where I took this -- I figured most people would vote "no" for this. I was going to ask if there's any way to fix this other than Officers being forced to record audio and video on them at all times they are on duty.

It's definitely, from what I've seen and studied, the best solution. As a taxpayer I'm happy to allocate more money towards it, but I could certainly see the argument that any extra direct tax implications isn't worth it.

That said, Tim's sentiment is not necessarily wrong. I think, generally, that cops rarely lie* and usually want to do the right thing. The issue is with the nature of the position, which naturally requires a substantial amount of discretion, immunity, and forgiveness, allows police deviance to develop and go unchecked more so than other public positions. It's a double-edged sword.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

As a taxpayer I'm happy to allocate more money towards it, but I could certainly see the argument that any extra direct tax implications isn't worth it.

I have no idea on what it would cost -- but you'd have to think over the long haul that there would be some savings as well -- Bad cops would be weeded out a lot quicker and easier. Which would leave good cops in place. Which would cut down on civil lawsuits against the police for how the bad cops act.

I don't know if there's any reasonable way to quantify this.

 

[Lutherman2112]

lol @ comparing cops to teachers. Cops have way more backup and most teachers are not carrying.

Huh?

HE said "lol @ comparing cops to teachers. Cops have way more backup and most teachers aren't carrying."

 

[Lutherman2112]

At a different school I know of a football coach that didnt want a certain kid on the team because the kid partied and was a trouble maker. He knew his buddy had him in class. He told his buddy to be on the lookout for the kid and find a reason to suspend him so that he ends up intelligible for football.

So what did you do about it? Just let it slide?

Because we just can't have students intelligible for football.

 

[tdoss]

Is there a HELL NO option?

 

[Zow]

As a taxpayer I'm happy to allocate more money towards it, but I could certainly see the argument that any extra direct tax implications isn't worth it.

I have no idea on what it would cost -- but you'd have to think over the long haul that there would be some savings as well -- Bad cops would be weeded out a lot quicker and easier. Which would leave good cops in place. Which would cut down on civil lawsuits against the police for how the bad cops act.

I don't know if there's any reasonable way to quantify this.

IIRC the units the local agency use here were like 2k/piece. Obviously there's going to be maintenance costs and costs to store the data (which is expensive). I'm sure they'll need to be replaced every couple of years. I'd say roughly the direct, out of cost to a average size town/city to have these per year could be over 100k. Major cities could be nearing million or so. I could be totally wrong on these numbers, but these are my somewhat educated guesses.

Where I can attest personally that it saves a ton of taxpayer dollars is in the court costs. They are huge in situations where the defendant is saying one thing and the cop is saying another. If the cop screwed up, a prosecutor can see it and act accordingly. If a defendant screwed up and/or is full of #### in their accounts, there's nothing more convincing then their lawyer sitting down with them and showing them a video of them doing exactly what they're saying they didn't or saying what they didn't say. It's saved me from going to a couple of dozen trials in public defense cases over the last couple of years, and I'm just one guy. Additionally, while governments could really get hammered in civil suits where there is video evidence of misconduct, I'd imagine the amount of deviance/misconduct deterred by the cameras has to outweigh.

However, the reality is that the agency which bears the costs doesn't necessarily realize the savings.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Teachers are the same way. We aren't talking beatings or sex, but verbal abuse, using cell phones (when it is against the rules), not being prepared for class, setting a kid up to get in trouble, etc. Teachers are likely to get away with this stuff for many of the same reasons as cops.

What school are you teaching at? Not saying it doesn't or can't happen but I don't see much of that if at all. Why would a teacher set a kid up to get in trouble only to have to deal with detentions and worse...most of that falls on the teacher to be there at the detention. I don't know any teachers getting paid extra to serve them. What state are we talking here?

Edit...Detroit?

I work in a non charter school, teachers don't deal with detentions. You write a kid up, send them down and they are out of your class for X number of days. I have has conversations with teachers where they have commented that a certain kid is driving them nuts and have baited the kid into an argument to get the kid to lose their cool and swear or say something threatening. It's pathetic, but it happens.

Got'cha, yeah that stinks.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

And you live in SoCAL? What a joke, probably the most corrupt department in the country. You don't know any cops apparently. Just stop with the police officers from yesteryear that don't exist much any more.

 

[Ilov80s]

Teachers are the same way. We aren't talking beatings or sex, but verbal abuse, using cell phones (when it is against the rules), not being prepared for class, setting a kid up to get in trouble, etc. Teachers are likely to get away with this stuff for many of the same reasons as cops.

What school are you teaching at? Not saying it doesn't or can't happen but I don't see much of that if at all. Why would a teacher set a kid up to get in trouble only to have to deal with detentions and worse...most of that falls on the teacher to be there at the detention. I don't know any teachers getting paid extra to serve them. What state are we talking here?

Edit...Detroit?

I work in a non charter school, teachers don't deal with detentions. You write a kid up, send them down and they are out of your class for X number of days. I have has conversations with teachers where they have commented that a certain kid is driving them nuts and have baited the kid into an argument to get the kid to lose their cool and swear or say something threatening. It's pathetic, but it happens.

Got'cha, yeah that stinks.

It's the same mentality/justification as a cop that lies or plants evidence: the person is no good and is guilty of all kinds of no good, getting them out of now is best for everyone, doesn't matter if if was "right."

 

[mr. furley]

briefly dated a girl who worked for the Chicago version of Internal Affairs... forget what it's called... they were police oversight/investigation.

based on my conversations with her i'd have to say "absolutely not"

 

[Slapdash]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

Sounds like his answer is yes. However, in typically Tim fashion, he decides to make some random point to muddy the waters.

 

[timschochet]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

And you live in SoCAL? What a joke, probably the most corrupt department in the country. You don't know any cops apparently. Just stop with the police officers from yesteryear that don't exist much any more.

Please don't tell me what I know or don't know.

 

[timschochet]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

Sounds like his answer is yes. However, in typically Tim fashion, he decides to make some random point to muddy the waters.

It's not a random point; it's central because I reject the premise behind the question. There's no set rule for whether or not police get away with abusive behavior, because it's not a common enough occurrence for any pattern to develop.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

Sounds like his answer is yes. However, in typically Tim fashion, he decides to make some random point to muddy the waters.

It's not a random point; it's central because I reject the premise behind the question. There's no set rule for whether or not police get away with abusive behavior, because it's not a common enough occurrence for any pattern to develop.

That's hysterical.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

And you live in SoCAL? What a joke, probably the most corrupt department in the country. You don't know any cops apparently. Just stop with the police officers from yesteryear that don't exist much any more.

Please don't tell me what I know or don't know.

You don't know SoCal police departments obviously. If this were a quiz, you failed. I don't need to convince you, the proof was in the post you made Mr High n Mighty.

 

[RCon]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

Sounds like his answer is yes. However, in typically Tim fashion, he decides to make some random point to muddy the waters.

It's not a random point; it's central because I reject the premise behind the question. There's no set rule for whether or not police get away with abusive behavior, because it's not a common enough occurrence for any pattern to develop.

Just curious: how many data points are required to determine that a pattern is statistically significant?

What does racism or institutionalized racism have to do with the original question?

 

[Todd Andrews]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

You totally missed the point. Again.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

When you`re the ones enforcing the rules its pretty easy to manipulate them to work in your favor

 

[timschochet]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

And you live in SoCAL? What a joke, probably the most corrupt department in the country. You don't know any cops apparently. Just stop with the police officers from yesteryear that don't exist much any more.

Please don't tell me what I know or don't know.

You don't know SoCal police departments obviously. If this were a quiz, you failed. I don't need to convince you, the proof was in the post you made Mr High n Mighty.

There are many different southern California police departments. I live in Orange County. The police I know personally are quite honest.

 

[timschochet]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

Sounds like his answer is yes. However, in typically Tim fashion, he decides to make some random point to muddy the waters.

It's not a random point; it's central because I reject the premise behind the question. There's no set rule for whether or not police get away with abusive behavior, because it's not a common enough occurrence for any pattern to develop.

Just curious: how many data points are required to determine that a pattern is statistically significant?

What does racism or institutionalized racism have to do with the original question?

I can't answer your first question except to say that it all depends. Your second question has an obvious answer: over the years, much of the abuse and misconduct that police are charged with are related to issues of race.

 

[Slapdash]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

Sounds like his answer is yes. However, in typically Tim fashion, he decides to make some random point to muddy the waters.

It's not a random point; it's central because I reject the premise behind the question. There's no set rule for whether or not police get away with abusive behavior, because it's not a common enough occurrence for any pattern to develop.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Most police officers are hard working, honest, and are willing to put their lives at risk to protect the public. Some of them are bad. Some of them are racist, and institutionalized racism does exist in many places. On the whole, though, I think most cops are fine people, so when these situations arise I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise.

All of which is fine, but doesn't answer the question.

Sounds like his answer is yes. However, in typically Tim fashion, he decides to make some random point to muddy the waters.

It's not a random point; it's central because I reject the premise behind the question. There's no set rule for whether or not police get away with abusive behavior, because it's not a common enough occurrence for any pattern to develop.

Sweet christ. Let's go ahead and shut this down. Mods, please lock.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Thanks for screwing up another thread Tim.