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Are the 49ers for real? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ponchsox
- Start date
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
For real? Depends what you mean. I agree with EBF in saying this team is playing over their heads. But they're a solid team with lots of confidence playing in a weak division. They are certainly a very real threat to make the playoffs.
ponchsox
Footballguy
With the exception of Dallas, I don't see Seattle, Cincy, Philly, and Tampa as upper echelon teams. They will have a good test next week against the Lions.
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theoneandonly
Footballguy
For real in the since there gonna win there division. There the best team in the weakest division in football. The nfc west is just terrible for the 2nd year in a row.
Not to take away from the 49ers who played amazing today. There defense looked great again. The line was opening up huge holes that were not there in the early weeks.
I would say we will see them in the playoffs but there not gonna make any noise.
Not to take away from the 49ers who played amazing today. There defense looked great again. The line was opening up huge holes that were not there in the early weeks.
I would say we will see them in the playoffs but there not gonna make any noise.
This team has shown progress every week, because of the late start, the offense is still being put together. As Harbaugh is able to install his full offense they will keep improving. Can they compete with the Packers, Lions & Saints right now? Maybe not, but I don't see anyone else in the NFC (maybe Falcons) who they couldn't hang with. I'd withhold judgement until after the bye in week 7, when they should be much more comfortable in the new offense.
Tony Reali
Footballguy
yes beekuz da seehocks where a lot better team last seezin and didnt make ne noyze either
Wingnut
Footballguy
They have a talented core of skill position players (V Davis, B Edwards, Gore, Crabtree, Hunter), and have really only lacked solid QB play to be division champ material the last couple of years (IMO). Harbaugh has Smith playing pretty good, although there were at least 2 throws he made today that were right to Buc defensive players who simply didnt catch the ball. That said, Smith's confidence is becoming evident, and if he keeps building that confidence and manages games well, this team could be a contender, IMO. Defense is playing pretty well (Rogers is playing lights-out) Willis is well, Willis...Special teams look much improved.
Coming into last weeks game, they were around 28th in the league in offense. They seemed to all of a sudden wake up in the 2nd half against Philly and played a great half of football to get the win, and that seemed to carry over to this week. I really thought it might take til mid-season for them to start playing like this, so Im happy to see it happening this early. They still have lots of work to do, Im sure theyll still be inconsistent at times, but theyre no doubt heading in the right direction. Its definitely a positive thing and you can see the confidence building. Im curious to see where their offense ranks after this week.
Next week they play a Lions team that, like the Bucs this week, will be coming off a short week after a MNF game, so theyve got that going in their favor...
Confidence is a powerful thing...it breeds success, and the 9ers are getting more confident every week.
Coming into last weeks game, they were around 28th in the league in offense. They seemed to all of a sudden wake up in the 2nd half against Philly and played a great half of football to get the win, and that seemed to carry over to this week. I really thought it might take til mid-season for them to start playing like this, so Im happy to see it happening this early. They still have lots of work to do, Im sure theyll still be inconsistent at times, but theyre no doubt heading in the right direction. Its definitely a positive thing and you can see the confidence building. Im curious to see where their offense ranks after this week.
Next week they play a Lions team that, like the Bucs this week, will be coming off a short week after a MNF game, so theyve got that going in their favor...
Confidence is a powerful thing...it breeds success, and the 9ers are getting more confident every week.
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Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Alex Smith has thrown for 965 yards this year (7.7 ypa). He's completed 65.9% of passes. He has 7 touchdowns and 1 interception. His quarterback rating is 104.1.How many 5th round picks play that well?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Their D is pretty legit but their O just suffered a ridiculous injury that could really leave them one-dimensional. Their best WR (Morgan) broke his ankle catching a pass in the last 4 minutes with a 38 point lead. With Edwards hurt, that leaves Davis as really the only receiver worth covering, even if/when Edwards comes back. I can't think of a single, solitary reason to have him out there that late in a rout.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
It only took him what, 7 years to get that good?
drummer
Footballguy
There is one out there that I think was a 6th round choice that is playing truly well. And they didn't have to wait until his 7th season to find out.
In their sixth season?It's like 20 attempts per game and about 200 yards per game. Harbaugh has a leash on him. (McCoy probably has more attempts in two games)No doubt those numbers are impressive, but there is a giant asterisk next to them. I recall Shaun King of Tampa doing something similar as a rook and they made it to the Supe or NFCC. Great things are possible, I suppose, but the odds sure are against it. He still throws "ya gotta be kidding me" bad passes every now and then. What happens when they need to come from behind and he has to put up 300 yards and a few scores? He's done well but I'm still uneasy about the QB.
drummer
Footballguy
This was Smith's best game he's ever had IMO. Yet before this game he wasn't playing that well for a whole 4 quarters. The defense has been the real factor game to game. Before this game the 49ers were out gained over 400 yards in the passing dept.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I'm not going to fight everyone and call Alex Smith a great qb. Even Crabtree has looked fine as a young wr. 600+ yards his rookie year (11 games) and 741 last season. I'm just calling you out for your hyperbole.
I had Morgan in FF. I don't know his #s but they weren't very good at all. In fact, today he was starting to make me regret I dropped him.
Yeah I wouldn't want to be stuck defending Alex either. I don't think it's hyperbole. I really don't think he or the others were worth their pick value at all. Granted I threw 5th into the discussion by plucking it out of the thin air, but they sure don't seem like firsts to me.I'm just calling you out for your hyperbole.
drummer
Footballguy
Smith has to stay healthy this season, which has been rare his whole career. Or it's Tolzien or Kaep after that. Smith has been getting the ball out quicker though, and that helps the O-Line out a bit.Yeah I wouldn't want to be stuck defending Alex either. I don't think it's hyperbole. I really don't think he or the others were worth their pick value at all. Granted I threw 5th into the discussion by plucking it out of the thin air, but they sure don't seem like firsts to me.I'm just calling you out for your hyperbole.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I have zero issues defending Alex Smith's play this year. He has played extremely well. I will agree he's been a bust but prior seasons are in the past. Right now he's certainly playing like a first rounder and there's no reason to think SF won't be a playoff contender.
As far as questioning what happens when the team falls behind and needs him to throw for 300 yards and a couple of scores, I'll point to last week against the Eagles where they were behind 20-3 at halftime. He went 21 for 33 (63.3%, 8.8 ypa), 291 yards and 2 touchdowns.
I'm very interested in seeing how well Smith can perform this year. If he continues to play at this level it will provide a lot of fodder for the nature/nurture qb thread.
As far as questioning what happens when the team falls behind and needs him to throw for 300 yards and a couple of scores, I'll point to last week against the Eagles where they were behind 20-3 at halftime. He went 21 for 33 (63.3%, 8.8 ypa), 291 yards and 2 touchdowns.
I'm very interested in seeing how well Smith can perform this year. If he continues to play at this level it will provide a lot of fodder for the nature/nurture qb thread.
drummer
Footballguy
You do know how bad the Eagles are on defense, don't you? He looked bad that entire first half. Smith until this game hasn't played that well. He played well in spurts, but he only threw for 4 TDs on 4 games, and the defense was carrying them until this game and is a huge factor in these wins. Before that when the team did fall behind and Smith tossed TD's late, the team would fall short because of defensive mistakes, poor coaching, etc. I think the proper emoticon you should have used is this one:'Dr. Awesome said:I have zero issues defending Alex Smith's play this year. He has played extremely well. I will agree he's been a bust but prior seasons are in the past. Right now he's certainly playing like a first rounder and there's no reason to think SF won't be a playoff contender.As far as questioning what happens when the team falls behind and needs him to throw for 300 yards and a couple of scores, I'll point to last week against the Eagles where they were behind 20-3 at halftime. He went 21 for 33 (63.3%, 8.8 ypa), 291 yards and 2 touchdowns.
Wingnut didn't say they were all playing to their draft position, just that they were part of an offensive core that has some talent'Bri said:Yeah I wouldn't want to be stuck defending Alex either. I don't think it's hyperbole. I really don't think he or the others were worth their pick value at all. Granted I threw 5th into the discussion by plucking it out of the thin air, but they sure don't seem like firsts to me.'Dr. Awesome said:I'm just calling you out for your hyperbole.
Fensalk
Footballguy
Confidence is terrible. Most of the great men in all walks of life lacked confidence. Its what gives them an edge. Since we're on the subject of football, let's point to Bill Belichick as an example. The guy has no confidence at all. Look at how he mumbles and worries in his press conferences. If you actually look closely, great minds share a sort of neurotic doubt that they use to FOCUS on the problems they face.When I look at the 49ers, I don't see confidence. I see focus. Focus is the key. Harbaugh has everyone on the team focused on doing their jobs.As the old saying goes: "Confidence is the greatest weakness; never be certain of anything". Another version of that is "the more you know, the more you know you don't know."If you want to improve the organization you are in charge of, the first thing you do is get rid of all the people that project confidence.'Wingnut said:
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chinawildman
Footballguy
For real or not, they just demolished a team that shut them out 21-0 last year in week 11 on that very field. You could say the Bucs aren't as good as their record, but if anything this season has shown us anything, it's that the best players don't necessarily make the best team. See eagles.
As a niners fan I am anxiously looking forward to next week's game at Detroit.
As a niners fan I am anxiously looking forward to next week's game at Detroit.
Tony Reali
Footballguy
As a 49er fan I somewhat defended Alex for the past because to be honest not a lot of fans of other teams really knew exactly what was going on in SF. The team was bad and they never got recognition on the east coast, so all anyone saw was their record and said "Oh it's all Alex's fault, the people talking about the coaches are just making excuses."
He was put on one of the worst teams ever his rookie year with no weapons and no one to learn behind. He made amazing strides his 2nd year only to lose Turner and get the worst OC in the history of the NFL in Hostler, then was forced to play on a separated shoulder and missed a year and a half. Then we finally thought with the continuation of Raye at OC that he would have some stability, but Raye was unbelievably awful and Singletary gave us a false sense of hope when he was actually clueless.
After the first game this year I was basically done. But in these past few games, I'm now not optimistic, but at least I don't dread and clutch the seat cushions every time Alex drops back to pass. And of course others will say WELL HE'S ONLY PLAYED AGAINST BAD TEAMS AND HE DOESN'T HAVE GOOD NUMBERS. All I need is for him to game manage. Sure it would be great to have a really good QB who I could say "I believe in this guy to lead us on comebacks" but I'm not at that point yet and I just hope that being with a QB-friendly coach like Harbaugh and the rapport they seem to have, Alex can maybe step up into the upper half or even third of NFL QBs
He was put on one of the worst teams ever his rookie year with no weapons and no one to learn behind. He made amazing strides his 2nd year only to lose Turner and get the worst OC in the history of the NFL in Hostler, then was forced to play on a separated shoulder and missed a year and a half. Then we finally thought with the continuation of Raye at OC that he would have some stability, but Raye was unbelievably awful and Singletary gave us a false sense of hope when he was actually clueless.
After the first game this year I was basically done. But in these past few games, I'm now not optimistic, but at least I don't dread and clutch the seat cushions every time Alex drops back to pass. And of course others will say WELL HE'S ONLY PLAYED AGAINST BAD TEAMS AND HE DOESN'T HAVE GOOD NUMBERS. All I need is for him to game manage. Sure it would be great to have a really good QB who I could say "I believe in this guy to lead us on comebacks" but I'm not at that point yet and I just hope that being with a QB-friendly coach like Harbaugh and the rapport they seem to have, Alex can maybe step up into the upper half or even third of NFL QBs
drummer
Footballguy
I think most people knew what was going on Smith's whole career here. It's been covered many times, and Hostler was Smith's QB coach while under Turner. It isn't like Nolan stuck him with an OC who didn't know Smith. Nolan hired Mike McCarthy as OC his first year to continue the WCO based offense. McCarthy struggled while trying to coach an offense that had nobody worth anything but a few players on offense to work with. McCarthy left after one year to coach Green Bay. Now look at where Green Bay is at. The second season Nolan hired Norv Turner, who I'm sure a lot of people here are familiar with. Turner managed Smith well by watering down the offense a bit for him and really helped bring out Gore. After the season Turner had San Diego offer him the job there, but the process limited Nolan's options for OC because of how long it took and when it started. Jim Hostler was Smith's QB coach since he was drafted, and it was either Jim Sullivan or Hostler. Nolan thought the better situation for Smith was to promote his coach. Turned out to be bad for the whole team, including Gore. I grow tired of the Smith Excuse Train because the 49ers made him the De-Facto starter while not having QB's worth a darn to compete with him. Shaun Hill made the most of the situation when he was in SF. He was the second best QB on the 49er squad, and Singletary let him go and had Carr and Troy Davis to compete with Smith. So it's pretty safe to say how committed the Franchise was and is when it comes to Smith, even though he hasn't anywhere near play like a Franchise QB.
Tony Reali
Footballguy
Yeah I definitely am not really an excuse giver, I just grew tired of people pretending like his whole career was perfect and that he should have been a Super Bowl QB by now.
you're correct
Deamon
Footballguy
depends how you define "for real".
Are they really good enough to win their division? No question.
Are they really good enough to be a super bowl contender? No.
None the less, I am extremely impressed with them this year so far. I expected a 5 win season, and now think they will win 10, but still out of the playoffs in round 1 vs a hot wild card team.
Are they really good enough to win their division? No question.
Are they really good enough to be a super bowl contender? No.
None the less, I am extremely impressed with them this year so far. I expected a 5 win season, and now think they will win 10, but still out of the playoffs in round 1 vs a hot wild card team.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I'm unimpressed with them myself. I mean, I guess I'm impressed in the sense that they're winning and holding their own. They should be the division winners and playoff-bound.
But once you elevate them into that upper echelon, I'm not liking what I'm seeing. Any good team has no business losing to them. Trouncing the Buccaneers tells me more about the Bucs than the 49ers imo.
I'm not a fan of Smith, Gore isn't young enough to grow with the team and their receivers are underwhelming. I just don't see much to get excited about.
I suppose we should give the new regime some time to put their personality on the team. And what more can they do than win? Maybe there's a fantasy bias here, but I like what I'm seeing from Detroit a lot more. I just can't see the 49ers doing anything in the playoffs.
To be fair, I said the same thing about Seattle last year.
But once you elevate them into that upper echelon, I'm not liking what I'm seeing. Any good team has no business losing to them. Trouncing the Buccaneers tells me more about the Bucs than the 49ers imo.
I'm not a fan of Smith, Gore isn't young enough to grow with the team and their receivers are underwhelming. I just don't see much to get excited about.
I suppose we should give the new regime some time to put their personality on the team. And what more can they do than win? Maybe there's a fantasy bias here, but I like what I'm seeing from Detroit a lot more. I just can't see the 49ers doing anything in the playoffs.
To be fair, I said the same thing about Seattle last year.
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Short Corner
Footballguy
Wingnut
Footballguy
I think youre confusing confidence with cockiness. And yes, theres a fine line between them. But to say football players having confidence is a bad thing, well thats just plain crazy talk.
Deamon
Footballguy
I see this team similar to seattle last year. Only that they will win 10 games, not 7. They'll win the div, heck even shock and win the first round of the playoffs after an emotional home game. But as soon as they face one of the bye teams (at saints or at packers?), cant see that working out too well.
Wingnut
Footballguy
My point is that they all have talent, and I believe they can definitely start playing closer to their talent level than they have been. Edwards had 1200+yds and 16 TDs a couple of years ago with Derek Anderson throwing the football (yes its an abberation compared to his other seasons, but it shows the potential is there). His numbers went down in New York, but Rex Ryan isnt a pass happy coach and he had some injury issues. I think if Edwards can stay healthy, we will see numbers a bit better than when he was in NY.As for Crabtree, Im giving him the benefit of the doubt due to the fact that hes probably still learning Harbaughs system. As the season goes on, I think we will see better numbers across the board.'Bri said:
Wingnut
Footballguy
I for one (and Im sure Im not alone) am not thinking theyre that good yet either...but a playoff win this year would be fine with me, Id consider a season like that a complete success and a HUGE step toward becoming a contender. Then build on that next year.
It's so easy to tell this team is coached better. This offense is perfect for Alex, quick slants, screens, multiple TE sets, passing on the move. He's not an elite QB, but it's insane how it took so long for a coach to put him in a situation where he has a chance to succeed and let him do things he's good at. I also have to say, their new rookie FB is a beast. There was a run with Kendall Hunter where Bruce was running as fast as him and blocking a whole bunch of dudes.
Fensalk
Footballguy
No I'm not. Being confident belies a lack of knowledge. The more you know what is going on, the less confident you will be. That is how the world works. The key is focus, not confidence.
Fensalk
Footballguy
That's the gut reaction many people have when it comes to Bill Belichick. They see his lack of confidence, and his inability to articulate, and they dislike him. If you were to select head coaches on the basis of "who looks like a head coach", you'd never pick him in a million years. That's why going with your gut is always so terribly, terribly wrong.Most masters in all walks of life have that "Belichick" quality, where they lack confidence and don't speak well.The greatest investor of our age is Warren Buffett. He's also very Belichick-like. He doesn't come across as very confident or smooth. He's very frumpy and struggles in public speaking. But he's the best at what he does.Kurt Cobain was the last musician to really alter the music scene. That guy had absolutely no confidence in himself at all. He was brooding and sad and blew his head off with a shotgun. Troubled genius, but awesome at what he does.Vincent Van Gogh. Amazing artist. Had zero confidence. Killed himself.All of these people are basically the same type of guy. Their lack of confidence was what gave them an edge, because it made them driven and more focused than any of their peers. And that bred massive success. We see it over and over again in history. I'd put Belichick on suicide watch.
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footballnerd
Footballguy
we were decent except at pass rush, secondary, and QB.....Harbaugh made a point to try to address these when he came in, the QB he nurtured (I know that sounds funny) personally....but yes its been a nice schedule for a new coach.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
In the midst of a typically over-generalistic post, this phrase is actually one I agree with. Very strongly. And there's a lot people on this board who could use a big dose of this kind of self-realization.As for the topic at hand, I'm very much looking forward to the big Harbaugh coaching showdown later this year. Their's is an odd case of big brother always being overshadowed by little brother and it'll be interesting to see if big brother can finally get the upper hand. He's got the better team but not by as much as we thought at the beginning of the season.
footballnerd
Footballguy
we would need to be at home to be competitive, I'm not optimistic about that game at all. Yes it may not be as much a margin as we previously thought, but it's still a big margin.
