Are the Texans still idiots? (1 Viewer)

[icehouse]

The Texans took a lot of flack for passing on the next Sayers, Faulk, etc. I think the fact that they picked Williams had something to do with it (who has 3.5 sacks including a great one on VY this week, and a game-winning tipped pass), but it seems like they were bashed more because Bush was supposed to be SO GOOD.

So are they still idiots for passing on the next great back?

Bush

2nd Overall Pick

70 Rushes for 212 Yards

0 Rushing TDs

Lundy

170th Overall Pick

54 Rushes for 266 Yards

1 Rushing TD

J.Norwood (and this guy has to share carries with Vick too)

47 Rushes for 321 yards

1 Rushing TD

M.Drew

62 rushes for 264 yards

3 rushing TDs

J.Addai

87 rushes for 447 yards

1 Rushing TD

L.Maroney

86 rushes for 361 yards

3 rushing TDs

L.Washington

86 rushes for 397 yards

2 rushing TDs

All of the above backs save Lundy are splitting carries too, so save that argument/excuse. Bush also gets more chances in the passing game (mainly because he can't run), yet these other backs are still outscoring him.

 

[Capella]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

 

[icehouse]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Go ahead and post those. He is catching a lot of passes but some of the above players are out-producing him there as well.So adding in his receiving yards (which have also produced no TD's), are the Texans still idiots?

 

[Capella]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Go ahead and post those. He is catching a lot of passes but some of the above players are out-producing him there as well.So adding in his receiving yards (which have also produced no TD's), are the Texans still idiots?

Why would I post those? This isn't my thread or my argument. Post the whole story, don't half-### it unless you want to look like an idiot.

 

[pinequick]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Go ahead and post those. He is catching a lot of passes but some of the above players are out-producing him there as well.So adding in his receiving yards (which have also produced no TD's), are the Texans still idiots?

Why would I post those? This isn't my thread or my argument. Post the whole story, don't half-### it unless you want to look like an idiot.

That's sort of like posting Micheal Vick's passing stats (prior to the last 2 weeks, of course) without posting his rushing stats and then trying to make the argument that he had a lousy game.

 

[icehouse]

Bush

2nd Overall Pick

70 Rushes for 212 Yards

0 Rushing TDs

42 rec for 290 yards (6.9 per catch)

10.7 avg on punt returns, 1 TD

Lundy

170th Overall Pick

54 Rushes for 266 Yards

1 Rushing TD

11 rec for 47 yards (4.3 per catch)

20.3 avg on kick returns

J.Norwood (and this guy has to share carries with Vick too)

47 Rushes for 321 yards

1 Rushing TD

6 rec for 58 yards (9.7 per catch)

29.5 avg on kick returns

M.Drew

62 rushes for 264 yards

3 rushing TDs

19 rec for 169 yards (8.9 per catch), 2 TDs

25.7 avg on kick returns

J.Addai

87 rushes for 447 yards

1 Rushing TD

19 rec for 144 yards (7.6 per catch), 1 TD

L.Maroney

86 rushes for 361 yards

3 rushing TDs

7 rec for 77 yards (11 per catch)

27.9 avg on kick returns

L.Washington

86 rushes for 397 yards

2 rushing TDs

5 rec for 76 yards (15.2 per catch)

Edited to reflect receiving yards.Yay...Bush has a lot of catches and isn't doing much with them. So if the Texans would have drafted him, he could have been our 2006 version of Ernest Givens!!!!

Sarcasm aside, the Texans have A.Johnson, Moulds and it looks like they drafted a nice pass catching TE. They also had a pro-bowl returner in Mathis, so if they drafted Bush he would have been relied on to RUN THE BALL. I'm still lost on how they are idiots for passing on him.

 

[icehouse]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Go ahead and post those. He is catching a lot of passes but some of the above players are out-producing him there as well.So adding in his receiving yards (which have also produced no TD's), are the Texans still idiots?

Why would I post those? This isn't my thread or my argument. Post the whole story, don't half-### it unless you want to look like an idiot.

Return and receiving yards were posted. I see Bush catching a lot of balls because the Saints are trying to create space for him to operate. I don't see too many big plays doing that, and his ypr average isn't great (neither is hir return average, even including the one he took to the house). The Texans needed a RB that can run, not one whose main contruibution is catching a lot of balls. So I still don't see how they were idiots for passing on him. Posting his reception totals just shows that he is touching the ball more than the RB's listed above, and still scoring less. And this is not a Bush sucks thread/post because he doesn't and he has been producing....but I don't see the production to warrant the heat the team got for passing on him. Some compared it to the Bulls passing on Jordan..........

 

[Assani Fisher]

I don't think any RB should ever go #1 overall when stars like S Alexander, M Faulk, E James, etc. are traded for 2nd round picks in this day and age.

I do think the Texans should've traded down becuase the #1 pick had a lot of value this year.

I do also think that stats don't accurately reflect just how much of an impact Bush has had.

It is possible that Bush could've pushed the Texans offense from average to great. We'll never know that.

All in all, I'll give them credit for going with their gut and making a ballsy pick. I never thought it was that bad of a pick. I actually thought that Leinart should've been the #1 pick all along, but thats another discussion.

 

[Avery]

Sarcasm aside, the Texans have A.Johnson, Moulds and it looks like they drafted a nice pass catching TE. They also had a pro-bowl returner in Mathis, so if they drafted Bush he would have been relied on to RUN THE BALL. I'm still lost on how they are idiots for passing on him.

Part of the "idiot" argument is that they didn't trade down and maximize their value. Everyone else in the world had Bush at #1 but the Texans made it obvious that they wouldn't draft Bush without a contract, didn't have a contract, and thus couldn't find anyone last minute who whould trade with them.Idiots.

 

[Assani Fisher]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Go ahead and post those. He is catching a lot of passes but some of the above players are out-producing him there as well.So adding in his receiving yards (which have also produced no TD's), are the Texans still idiots?

Why would I post those? This isn't my thread or my argument. Post the whole story, don't half-### it unless you want to look like an idiot.

Return and receiving yards were posted. I see Bush catching a lot of balls because the Saints are trying to create space for him to operate. I don't see too many big plays doing that, and his ypr average isn't great (neither is hir return average, even including the one he took to the house). The Texans needed a RB that can run, not one whose main contruibution is catching a lot of balls. So I still don't see how they were idiots for passing on him. Posting his reception totals just shows that he is touching the ball more than the RB's listed above, and still scoring less. And this is not a Bush sucks thread/post because he doesn't and he has been producing....but I don't see the production to warrant the heat the team got for passing on him. Some compared it to the Bulls passing on Jordan..........

Some huge prospects are busts(Ryan Leaf), some are stars(P Manning), and some turn out average(V Testaverde). At the time, we had no clue how Bush would turn out. You now have the benefit of having seen the first few weeks. Some people thought that Bush would set the NFL on fire like Lebron James did in the NBA, and it really wasn't that far fetched of a thought. He hasn't done that. But the point is that its easy for you to sit back now and state your opinion.If you can provide a link to before the season started where you said that you think Bush would be decent but not great, then I'll respect your opinion a lot more.As I said, to answer your question I think they were dumb for not trading down, but I don't think it was a horrible pick nor did I ever think so. But I don't think that this "results oriented" type of logic you're using means anything.

 

[EBF]

1.) It's way too early to know.

2.) NFL coaches don't care about fantasy football stats. The Saints are a much better team than they were last season. Brees and Colston have been major factors, but Bush has certainly had an impact as well. He's already single-handedly won them one game that they very well could've lost without him.

 

[icehouse]

Sarcasm aside, the Texans have A.Johnson, Moulds and it looks like they drafted a nice pass catching TE. They also had a pro-bowl returner in Mathis, so if they drafted Bush he would have been relied on to RUN THE BALL. I'm still lost on how they are idiots for passing on him.

Part of the "idiot" argument is that they didn't trade down and maximize their value. Everyone else in the world had Bush at #1 but the Texans made it obvious that they wouldn't draft Bush without a contract, didn't have a contract, and thus couldn't find anyone last minute who whould trade with them.Idiots.

If you say they are idiots for not maximizing the value of the pick, then I agree with you 100%. But I rarely heard "The Texans are dumb for not trading down". I heard a lot of "How do you pass on Bush...he is the next great player, etc".

 

[Bri]

Kiwi could wind up with better stats than Mario

 

[Avery]

Kiwi could wind up with better stats than Mario

Defintely a better contract for the Giants over the next few years and possibly a better career as well.

 

[Bri]

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/407605

Rushing

Year Team G GS Att Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 1st

2006 New Orleans Saints 7 1 70 212 3.0 18 0 0 7

TOTAL 7 1 70 212 3.0 18 0 0 7

Receiving

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st

2006 New Orleans Saints 7 1 42 290 6.9 32 0 2 0 14

TOTAL 7 1 42 290 6.9 32 0 2 0 14

Passing

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2006 New Orleans Saints 7 1 1 0 0.0 0 0.00 0 0 1 0/0 0 0 0.0

TOTAL 7 1 1 0 0.0 0 0.00 0 0 1 0/0 0 0 0.0

Punt Returns

Year Team G Ret FC Ret Yds Avg Lg TD 20+

2006 New Orleans Saints 7 15 2 161 10.7 65 1 2

TOTAL 7 15 2 161 10.7 65 1 2

Defensive Stats

Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def

2006 New Orleans Saints 7 2 2.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

TOTAL 7 2 2.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

Fumbles

Year Team G Fum Lost Fum Forced Own Rec Opp Rec Yds Tot Rec TD

2006 New Orleans Saints 7 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

TOTAL 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

[GregR_2]

The problem I had with the Texans pick is that I think given the information they had to go on, Bush seemed a lot more likely to excel in the NFL than Mario. Mario is a great physical specimen. But he hadn't done much in his games against the better college teams, and there was also some concern about the amount of effort he gives. An issue which has already come up while on the Texans, though he seems to have responded to Kubiak getting on him. He was almost completely ineffective before that, and since then he's been a very good linemen.

In the long run, it's going to come down to how good Mario Williams is on whether they blew the pick or not.

 

[icehouse]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Go ahead and post those. He is catching a lot of passes but some of the above players are out-producing him there as well.So adding in his receiving yards (which have also produced no TD's), are the Texans still idiots?

Why would I post those? This isn't my thread or my argument. Post the whole story, don't half-### it unless you want to look like an idiot.

Return and receiving yards were posted. I see Bush catching a lot of balls because the Saints are trying to create space for him to operate. I don't see too many big plays doing that, and his ypr average isn't great (neither is hir return average, even including the one he took to the house). The Texans needed a RB that can run, not one whose main contruibution is catching a lot of balls. So I still don't see how they were idiots for passing on him. Posting his reception totals just shows that he is touching the ball more than the RB's listed above, and still scoring less. And this is not a Bush sucks thread/post because he doesn't and he has been producing....but I don't see the production to warrant the heat the team got for passing on him. Some compared it to the Bulls passing on Jordan..........

Some huge prospects are busts(Ryan Leaf), some are stars(P Manning), and some turn out average(V Testaverde). At the time, we had no clue how Bush would turn out. You now have the benefit of having seen the first few weeks. Some people thought that Bush would set the NFL on fire like Lebron James did in the NBA, and it really wasn't that far fetched of a thought. He hasn't done that. But the point is that its easy for you to sit back now and state your opinion.If you can provide a link to before the season started where you said that you think Bush would be decent but not great, then I'll respect your opinion a lot more.

As I said, to answer your question I think they were dumb for not trading down, but I don't think it was a horrible pick nor did I ever think so. But I don't think that this "results oriented" type of logic you're using means anything.

I don't have any links like that as I rarely got into the Bush debate until threads starting popping up about how stupid the Texans were. Not much posting for me around draft time....I get more into it when it's time for the FF season to start.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=272437&hl=

I never thought Bush would be one of the all-time great backs. I always thought of him as a scat-back type. But again, Bush has been producing...but I have never regretted on us passing on him because I never thought he would be all that.

 

[Bri]

Kiwi could wind up with better stats than Mario

Definitely a better contract for the Giants over the next few years and possibly a better career as well.

He's also got it easier. Especially switching to Lavar's spot on 3rd(still rushing QB) when Osi returns. Good Luck blocking Strahan and Osi, oh yeah and Kiwi too.I think the Texans just wanted a guy that'll have a good long career. If he winds up beign great, that's great too. Top DL and OL are hard to find. They got a piece. The Bush/Mario debate really overshadows the fact that they still have a ton of holes and Casserly and the coaches(they cut em') are to blame. Enough high picks and there should be a decent team after a while.

 

[icehouse]

1.) It's way too early to know. 2.) NFL coaches don't care about fantasy football stats. The Saints are a much better team than they were last season. Brees and Colston have been major factors, but Bush has certainly had an impact as well. He's already single-handedly won them one game that they very well could've lost without him.

I'm not talking FF production. I'm talking actual on the field production. Bush is producing, but not enough to make us the most idiot franchise ever for passing on him.FYI, Mario also won a game for his team with a tipped 2 point conversion.

 

[Bri]

The problem I had with the Texans pick is that I think given the information they had to go on, Bush seemed a lot more likely to excel in the NFL than Mario. Mario is a great physical specimen. But he hadn't done much in his games against the better college teams, and there was also some concern about the amount of effort he gives. An issue which has already come up while on the Texans, though he seems to have responded to Kubiak getting on him. He was almost completely ineffective before that, and since then he's been a very good linemen.In the long run, it's going to come down to how good Mario Williams is on whether they blew the pick or not.

(Devil's advocate)Vernon Davis seems to fit both characterizations. He's a physical specimen and quite likely to excel. He "couldn't" have been the first pick. Still, I find that interesting. Alot of people wrote with a similr premise as your post. I think Mario or Ferguson would have been safe, and I think safe is what that team needed for a change. In hindsight, they should have done what the Jets did, and the offers were there. Mangold and Ferguson seems so awesome. On top of that it would have solved alot on O, quietted the critics, and given them a foundation to build on. Carr's still a prob? Yeah well they'd know for sure because he'd have time to throw and wouldn't be judging a QB running for his life. RB mess, they'd know that too. Lundy was the man in preseason, sitting, now he's the man again. I'm not completely sold on him yet. PLUS what happens when Davis does return?

 

[Organized Chaos]

What about this stat:

Houston 2005 record 2-14

Houston 2006 record 2-5

NO 2005 Record 3-13

NO 2006 Record 5-2

Two horrible teams last year, one horrible team this year, hmm.....

I'd say that even though Lundy may have comparable stats , you dont have teams game planning around Lundy etc...

 

[Bri]

What about this stat:Houston 2005 record 2-14Houston 2006 record 2-5NO 2005 Record 3-13NO 2006 Record 5-2Two horrible teams last year, one horrible team this year, hmm.....I'd say that even though Lundy may have comparable stats , you dont have teams game planning around Lundy etc...

I give Brees the credit for that. I'm thoroughly impressed with him this year

 

[icehouse]

What about this stat:Houston 2005 record 2-14Houston 2006 record 2-5NO 2005 Record 3-13NO 2006 Record 5-2Two horrible teams last year, one horrible team this year, hmm.....I'd say that even though Lundy may have comparable stats , you dont have teams game planning around Lundy etc...

Yes, because Bush would have stopped teams from scoring 24, 43, 31, 34 and 28 points against the Texans (points given up in losses).Yes, because Bush is the only addition the Saints have made.

 

[Organized Chaos]

Yes, Brees has been very impressive, as well as other players etc... But Bush being on the field does help all these players IMO.

 

[icehouse]

Yes, Brees has been very impressive, as well as other players etc... But Bush being on the field does help all these players IMO.

I agree that Bush's presence helps, but it also helps him to have a workhorse back, quality receivers and a all-pro QB. The Saints work well as a unit and I think Bush fits well into what they are doing up there (obviously...they are winning). But even his status as a decoy doesn't warrant the bashing the Texans received. Their RB would truly be relied on to carry the ball and move the chains, and that is the worst part of Bush's game so far.

 

[Traders2001]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Cause that is not why they drafted him , he is nt a WR he is a RB but he cant run the ball in the NFL.

 

[PatsWillWin]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Cause that is not why they drafted him , he is nt a WR he is a RB but he cant run the ball in the NFL.

The NFL is not a fantasy league.They drafted him as an impact offensive player - and that's what he is.

 

[cstu]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Cause that is not why they drafted him , he is nt a WR he is a RB but he cant run the ball in the NFL.

The NFL is not a fantasy league.They drafted him as an impact offensive player - and that's what he is.

As hard as it is to believe, RB's for the most part are a dime a dozen. Bush's guaranteed contract is ridiculous for an unproven RB no matter how good he is expected to be. For the money Bush received the Texans could sign any RB in the NFL next year.

 

[djcolts]

Would you rather have Bush and his contract, or any other RB rookie of your choice and his contract?

 

[Jason Wood]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

While I agree that Bush's value is inherently in the total skill set, there's no question that he's been disappointing thus far. To suggest that his lack of success as a runner should be disregarded is silly, because without being an effective runner, his current career trajectory looks a lot more like Amp Lee or Larry Centers than it does Marshall Faulk.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I don't think hes been that much of a disappointment at all. He hasn't been given a shot at full time RB duties, so its not really fair to expect him to produce great numbers.

 

[thayman]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

Cause that is not why they drafted him , he is nt a WR he is a RB but he cant run the ball in the NFL.

The NFL is not a fantasy league.They drafted him as an impact offensive player - and that's what he is.

As hard as it is to believe, RB's for the most part are a dime a dozen. Bush's guaranteed contract is ridiculous for an unproven RB no matter how good he is expected to be. For the money Bush received the Texans could sign any RB in the NFL next year.

who??

 

[Capella]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

While I agree that Bush's value is inherently in the total skill set, there's no question that he's been disappointing thus far. To suggest that his lack of success as a runner should be disregarded is silly, because without being an effective runner, his current career trajectory looks a lot more like Amp Lee or Larry Centers than it does Marshall Faulk.

It's 8 games, wood. I sure hope your first employer didn't judge your future worth after only 8 weeks.

 

[matuski]

Which team improved more this year?

Bush makes the Saints a better team.

Comparing stats among rookies is ridiculous. Wait a couple years.

*One more vote for the OP framing the info given to help his side of the arguement

 

[pizzatyme]

Bush

2nd Overall Pick

70 Rushes for 212 Yards

0 Rushing TDs

42 rec for 290 yards (6.9 per catch)

10.7 avg on punt returns, 1 TD

Lundy

170th Overall Pick

54 Rushes for 266 Yards

1 Rushing TD

11 rec for 47 yards (4.3 per catch)

20.3 avg on kick returns

J.Norwood (and this guy has to share carries with Vick too)

47 Rushes for 321 yards

1 Rushing TD

6 rec for 58 yards (9.7 per catch)

29.5 avg on kick returns

M.Drew

62 rushes for 264 yards

3 rushing TDs

19 rec for 169 yards (8.9 per catch), 2 TDs

25.7 avg on kick returns

J.Addai

87 rushes for 447 yards

1 Rushing TD

19 rec for 144 yards (7.6 per catch), 1 TD

L.Maroney

86 rushes for 361 yards

3 rushing TDs

7 rec for 77 yards (11 per catch)

27.9 avg on kick returns

L.Washington

86 rushes for 397 yards

2 rushing TDs

5 rec for 76 yards (15.2 per catch)

Edited to reflect receiving yards.Yay...Bush has a lot of catches and isn't doing much with them. So if the Texans would have drafted him, he could have been our 2006 version of Ernest Givens!!!!

Sarcasm aside, the Texans have A.Johnson, Moulds and it looks like they drafted a nice pass catching TE. They also had a pro-bowl returner in Mathis, so if they drafted Bush he would have been relied on to run the ball. I'm still lost on how they are idiots for passing on him.

You don't think his situation and stats would be different if he were the primary back? He is on a team with a very good RB on Deuce.Give it up man, you had me at "I'm still lost"...

 

[avoiding injuries]

You don't think his situation and stats would be different if he were the primary back? He is on a team with a very good RB on Deuce.Give it up man, you had me at "I'm still lost"...

In his defense, he is comparing Bush's stats to other rookie rb's splitting time. He disclosed that in an earlier post.All this talk about Bush and no mention of drafting a DE with the #1 pick. Take Bush out of the equation and I think they still made a boo boo.

 

[Sigfawn]

why didn't you post Bush's receiving stats and his special-teams touchdown? Do those yards not count? Did you think somebody here wouldn't notice?

While I agree that Bush's value is inherently in the total skill set, there's no question that he's been disappointing thus far. To suggest that his lack of success as a runner should be disregarded is silly, because without being an effective runner, his current career trajectory looks a lot more like Amp Lee or Larry Centers than it does Marshall Faulk.

It's 8 games, wood. I sure hope your first employer didn't judge your future worth after only 8 weeks.

8 weeks?! What industry do you work in? I'd guess the government.If you're one of the HIGHEST paid at your position (right out of college), and you're sucking, you don't get 8 weeks. When guys making 5% of what you do, are doing better, tell me an industry where the boss doesn't really care. In the real world, Bush would have been fired, then rehired at about 10% his original contract.

 

[mbuehner]

This may be the stupidest conversation i've seen at FBG. And thats saying something.

-As somebody said coaches dont judge players by their fantasy stats.

-You dont draft a player based on what he will do for you in his first 8 games splitting time with a veteran pro-bowler.

-You dont ask the question should Bush have gone 1 or 2 and then compare him with guys taken way later in the draft. Compare him with who went over him. How is Mario Williams season going? 3.5 sacks? Hey Mark Anderson has 7.5, he should have been the #1 draft pick- how stupid are the Texans? Meanwhile Houston is rushing for 3.6 y/c and allowing opponents 4.5. Bringing up the Walli Lundy card at this juncture probably doesnt help the argument, the Texans have been god-awful running the ball for most of the season. You think they could have used a little help in that department?

 

[Jagerbomber]

This may be the stupidest conversation i've seen at FBG. And thats saying something.-As somebody said coaches dont judge players by their fantasy stats.-You dont draft a player based on what he will do for you in his first 8 games splitting time with a veteran pro-bowler.-You dont ask the question should Bush have gone 1 or 2 and then compare him with guys taken way later in the draft. Compare him with who went over him. How is Mario Williams season going? 3.5 sacks? Hey Mark Anderson has 7.5, he should have been the #1 draft pick- how stupid are the Texans? Meanwhile Houston is rushing for 3.6 y/c and allowing opponents 4.5. Bringing up the Walli Lundy card at this juncture probably doesnt help the argument, the Texans have been god-awful running the ball for most of the season. You think they could have used a little help in that department?

Thank you! I think thats the one argument that was missing, that they drafted Mario Williams instead. That was idiotic.I would seriously only bring in Addai and Maroney in terms of comparison with Bush because they both started sharing the backfield with an experienced RB. Maroney in particular has been able to take over Dillon (a pro Bowl veteran) but in all fairness, Deuce has looked better than Dillon so it'd be dumb for the Saints to still try to rush Reggie into the full starter position.I will say that I think Bush HAS been somewhat disappointing. He can't break out the big runs and that does put some doubts about his effectiveness. But like you said, it's still too early to tell.

 

[coolnerd]

The biggest reason for criticism of taking Mario williams is non-football related. From what you have given the fans standpoint, the team has delivered a bad product and a boring product. Williams may help address the bad part, but may never address the boring portion. There is so little interest in the Texans outside of Houston. The SA, Austin and Dallas television markets would rather show the "best national gme" than a team which is 4 hours or less drive away from these cities. Over the long haul just being a good football team will not be enough when battling against the "No PR is bad PR" mentality of Jerry Jones and the Cowboy organizzation. Bush or Young was by far the better marketing option.

As for the trade down being available or not, we never really know what goes on behind closed doors and what actually offered versus talked about. Since the Texans nor the Saints took a trade, and that no team traded up in the earliest parts of the draft, the asking price was not meet. Was it because the asking price was unreasonable or a lack of real interest from the teams in the top 5 or 6 we never know. At the end of the day, I can't assume that my team should have traded down or not because I don't have the facts. Trading down is not always an option.

 

[CrossEyed]

1.) It's way too early to know.

This is the only correct answer.

 

[Buckna]

I appreciate the effort to defend the Texans because they have been far too unfairly bashed for taking Mario, but it is still way too early to tell. I'm going to give it a couple more seasons and hopefully I'll remember to stay out of these kinds of threads that seem to pop up nearly every week rehashing the same stuff over and over again.

 

[aldelgreco]

They are IDIOTS FOR PASSING ON SUPERMAN.

not reggie, the real heisman winner and the future of the NFL.

VY.

 

[icehouse]

This may be the stupidest conversation i've seen at FBG. And thats saying something.

-As somebody said coaches dont judge players by their fantasy stats.

-You dont draft a player based on what he will do for you in his first 8 games splitting time with a veteran pro-bowler.

-You dont ask the question should Bush have gone 1 or 2 and then compare him with guys taken way later in the draft. Compare him with who went over him. How is Mario Williams season going? 3.5 sacks? Hey Mark Anderson has 7.5, he should have been the #1 draft pick- how stupid are the Texans? Meanwhile Houston is rushing for 3.6 y/c and allowing opponents 4.5. Bringing up the Walli Lundy card at this juncture probably doesnt help the argument, the Texans have been god-awful running the ball for most of the season. You think they could have used a little help in that department?

Again, this isn't about us taking Williams because I don't think we received the majority of the flack for taking Mario...we received the majority of the flack for not taking Bush. "How could you pass on Bush...once in a lifetime player...next Sayers, Faulk, Barry...you don't pass on Reggie Bush".Based on production so far, why the hell not? Six other rookie RB's are doing just as well/better. I compared him to other RB's because we received such flack for passing on the "next great" RB. Considering the salary for the position (which has a low longevity usually) and the fact that Bush is rushing for less ypc than our scrub backs are behind our scrub line (and he doesn't have a scrub line now), I'm lost as to how we are idoits for passing on HIM specifically. Yes, the Texans could have used help running the ball. How has Bush shown us that he could have provided that help (running the ball). That's the aspect that he is struggling with.

I already agreed that I don't think Mario was the right choice, or that we didn't maximize the value of the pick. But even using Mario as consideration, 3.5 sacks is still better than 1 TD.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I think in the end we'll believe they were idiots for passing on Vince Young.

 

[icehouse]

They are IDIOTS FOR PASSING ON SUPERMAN.not reggie, the real heisman winner and the future of the NFL.VY.

I do regret us passing on Vince..mainly because I believe our QB is a biznitch....

 

[Phlash]

The reason the Saints are doing good are for 5 reasons (listed in order of importance)

1) Brees

2) Marques Colston

3) The recovery of Duece McAllister

4) The revival of Joe Horn

5) Reggie Bush

 

[the hairy scotsman]

They are IDIOTS FOR PASSING ON SUPERMAN.not reggie, the real heisman winner and the future of the NFL.VY.

Yeah the poll question is flawed in the first place, being limited to rbs. All hyperbole aside, the Texans are idiots, but not because they didn't take Bush. They're idiots because they kept David Carr and passed on Vince Young, and they could conceivably have traded down a couple of spots and still had him. It was funny/sad watching Carr (sucks) getting benched in the game against the guy he was retained in favor of, while digging a huge hole and losing to him. The Texans can have Carr's stats. The Titans will gladly take the win. Young has that team playing with much more fire than they have had in years. That's a rookie leading his team. The stats will come. Imagine if he had Andre Johnson to stretch the field a little.Meanwhile on the business front, the Texans lost a significant portion of their Texas fanbase by screwing the pooch yet again and passing on the hometown legend and best football player Houston has ever produced. They also screwed it on the pr front, as VY will be a great ambassador for the city of Houston and is already very active in his old community and others in Nashville and NYC. He just won't be doing it in a Texans uni.

 

[mbuehner]

Again, this isn't about us taking Williams because I don't think we received the majority of the flack for taking Mario...we received the majority of the flack for not taking Bush.

Aren't these two concepts intimately related? The Texans weren't going to take Joseph Addai with the #1 pick. If they thought that was their guy they should absolutely have traded down and gotten whatever they could for a deal. But that is all hindsight. I can buy the VY argument because QB is a major impact position and Young is a franchise maker.... just like Bush is expected to be. Mario Williams is not and never will be that kind of franchise player. The point is the first 1-3 picks of the draft are far more valuable than any other slots because every year there are a handful of studs that are head and shoulders above the pack and ready to turn a team around (they dont always do it of course, but they are thought to have the potential). You either take one of those impact players or get out of that slot. Otherwise you not only waste the value of the #1 pick, you end up overpaying a guy like Mario that isnt worthy of that kind of status and money. Worse, when his contact comes up you either end up overpaying him again or letting him go and admitting it was a mistake. Bush was a no-brainer because he was such a highly thought of prospect if he failed everyone would just chalk it up to bad luck. With Williams he has to be all world or you become the laughing stock of the entire football world.

 

[Mahoney]

Rookie Seasons:

J. Peppers: 54 TT 37 UT 17 A 12 S

D. Freeney 47 43 4 13

R. Seymour: 44 25 19 3

M. Williams (pace): 50 39 11 8

In my book they weren't idiots, and they still aren't.