Are Traditional College Degrees Becoming Obsolete? (1 Viewer)

[Chadstroma]

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.



Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

Does that mean student loans or do you expect them to earn the money while they are in school?

Well, when I was going a full load of classes was only about $500. A full load of classes now is like $1500. That is more than I was expecting it to have risen. (not sure why I am surprised about that).

That would be a lot now for a part time student to afford each Q.

Maybe I will make them pay for books or maybe tell them it is a loan and then forgive the debt when they finish or something like that. I dunno. Really do not want them to have loan debt but then again... if the loan debt that they have is only $10K then maybe it is not so bad for them to just get student loans on it. My oldest is 5 in March so I have a loooooong time to refine the plan.

 

[Chadstroma]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.

Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

I'm going to have a really hard time with that. I have no problem making the sacrifices to spend 50k/yr for them to go to an elite school, but not for them to become a kindergarten teacher; they can go to a state school for that.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a kindergarten teacher, but I'd much rather save a bunch of money on school and use that instead to help them make a down payment on a house. Its more the misuse of money that would really bother me.

If we are talking elite school then I kind of think by default the kid will be driven and will want to do more than work as a kindergarten teacher. You don't need to go to Northwestern or ND if that is the sum of your ambition. But if she/he is interested in that, I think I would try to take it towards a higher degree in child development or child psychology degree etc so it may lead to research, administration or other opportunities down the road. But like I said- I don't see someone so driven to get the grades and other stuff to get into an elite school to turn around and not want to do much with their degree.

 

[NutterButter]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.

Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

I'm going to have a really hard time with that. I have no problem making the sacrifices to spend 50k/yr for them to go to an elite school, but not for them to become a kindergarten teacher; they can go to a state school for that.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a kindergarten teacher, but I'd much rather save a bunch of money on school and use that instead to help them make a down payment on a house. Its more the misuse of money that would really bother me.

If we are talking elite school then I kind of think by default the kid will be driven and will want to do more than work as a kindergarten teacher. You don't need to go to Northwestern or ND if that is the sum of your ambition. But if she/he is interested in that, I think I would try to take it towards a higher degree in child development or child psychology degree etc so it may lead to research, administration or other opportunities down the road. But like I said- I don't see someone so driven to get the grades and other stuff to get into an elite school to turn around and not want to do much with their degree.

Maybe I'm making more of this than it is. Its really the only concern I have. If my kids take the route that requires me to spend a bunch of money for school, I want to make sure that its worth it in terms of their earning potential.

 

[Buttonhook]

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

"You can get your engineering or pre-med degree and still pursue your dream job, but good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job." Even at 15 years-old I knew he was right...

It kind of shocked me how straight-forward he was, but he put it out there early enough that I had time to dwell on it and act accordingly. He clearly did not want to "waste" his money and also wanted me to have some skin in the game.

I ended up getting my engineering degree from a decent school and ended up chipping in about $20,000 for my tuition over five years. It wasn't until right after I graduated and was on my way to a trip to New Zealand that they informed me that they "saved" $10,000 of that money for me to put down money on my first home purchase (this was never a part of the original agreement but they obviously had it planned for quite a while).

I'm fairly certain this is how I plan to (hopefully) motivate my two kids and make sure I'm getting my money's worth.

 

[Chadstroma]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.

Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

I'm going to have a really hard time with that. I have no problem making the sacrifices to spend 50k/yr for them to go to an elite school, but not for them to become a kindergarten teacher; they can go to a state school for that.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a kindergarten teacher, but I'd much rather save a bunch of money on school and use that instead to help them make a down payment on a house. Its more the misuse of money that would really bother me.

If we are talking elite school then I kind of think by default the kid will be driven and will want to do more than work as a kindergarten teacher. You don't need to go to Northwestern or ND if that is the sum of your ambition. But if she/he is interested in that, I think I would try to take it towards a higher degree in child development or child psychology degree etc so it may lead to research, administration or other opportunities down the road. But like I said- I don't see someone so driven to get the grades and other stuff to get into an elite school to turn around and not want to do much with their degree.

Maybe I'm making more of this than it is. Its really the only concern I have. If my kids take the route that requires me to spend a bunch of money for school, I want to make sure that its worth it in terms of their earning potential.

For me personally, I would rather my kids have a happy life in the middle class than a miserable life making top dollar. I believe career choice can really impact your level of contentment and happiness more so than bank accounts can really impact your level of contentment and happiness. I would rather try to leverage what my kids are passionate about into a stable career than try to force them into a high paying career that they really are only doing because it is high paying.

On the other hand, there are some "career choices" that are 99.9% of people fail to achieve (music, pro sports, etc) and other majors that really the only thing you can directly use it for is grad school or teaching (Philosophy, sociology, etc). I just am hoping that in the very least I am able to help them realize a plan B if that is their first choice.

A friend of mine wanted to try the music thing. He first got a bachelors in Philosophy and about three minors from USC because that was what he was interested in. He then gave music a shot but gave himself a time limit in that if he was not able to establish a decent living within X years, then he would go to law school. He scraped and scratched on by playing gigs here and there and in bands and then time was up... he went to law school and is a lawyer now. He enjoyed law so it was not like he was making himself miserable by getting a good paying job for the sake of it being a good paying job.

 

[AnonymousBob]

(2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

I don't understand why it isn't this way to begin with.

Because students who take 10 classes a year spend more per year than students who take 5 classes a year. Requiring students to take a certain number of classes produces more revenue than not requiring a minimum. It's about money. It's always about money.

The model I was referring to could still require certain classes. If anything, the speed of things being possibly faster makes them more.

 

[cstu]

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

"You can get your engineering or pre-med degree and still pursue your dream job, but good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job." Even at 15 years-old I knew he was right...

It kind of shocked me how straight-forward he was, but he put it out there early enough that I had time to dwell on it and act accordingly. He clearly did not want to "waste" his money and also wanted me to have some skin in the game.

I ended up getting my engineering degree from a decent school and ended up chipping in about $20,000 for my tuition over five years. It wasn't until right after I graduated and was on my way to a trip to New Zealand that they informed me that they "saved" $10,000 of that money for me to put down money on my first home purchase (this was never a part of the original agreement but they obviously had it planned for quite a while).

I'm fairly certain this is how I plan to (hopefully) motivate my two kids and make sure I'm getting my money's worth.

Computer science and finance down, dad?

 

[Thorpe]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

Computer science and finance down, dad?

Computer science is engineering.

 

[Christo]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

Less than a quarter of the US population has a bachelor's degree.

 

[TripItUp]

In my field(cybersecurity) they are necessary and mandatory, so they far from "obsolete."

We only hire those with Masters degrees from reputable schools(top 100 US News)

You're going to find the answer to this question is profession specific.

That being said, most degrees from most schools are worthless. For instance, most liberal arts degrees from schools that are not top 200 are pretty much worthless.

 

[cstu]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

Computer science and finance down, dad?

Computer science is engineering.

I consider computer science more of a math and logic degree and separate from engineering, even though they do have a lot in common.

 

[TripItUp]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

Computer science and finance down, dad?

Computer science is engineering.

I consider computer science more of a math and logic degree and separate from engineering, even though they do have a lot in common.

Doctor or Lawyer is 1980s thinking...which is half the problem, parents have no idea how to direct their children.

Everybody and their mom has been screaming that healthcare(not just MDs) and IT jobs is where the growth is at. For whatever reasons parents are still letting their kids pursue worthless degrees even though politicians and just about every media article has been trying to change their thinking.

Parents and their 1980s thinking are as much to blame, if not more to blame, than the kids pursuing studies in "poetry" and "history".

 

[chet]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

Less than a quarter of the US population has a bachelor's degree.

What about in the working population? Has to be greater than 50%. And then look at white collar jobs and I'd bet you're over 70%.

Very misleading, Christo.

 

[TripItUp]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

Less than a quarter of the US population has a bachelor's degree.

What about in the working population? Has to be greater than 50%. And then look at white collar jobs and I'd bet you're over 70%.

Very misleading, Christo.

I'll take the under on 50%

 

[Christo]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

Less than a quarter of the US population has a bachelor's degree.

What about in the working population? Has to be greater than 50%. And then look at white collar jobs and I'd bet you're over 70%.

Very misleading, Christo.

So what you're saying is that it's not important to have a degree to be in the working population or a white collar job? Is that what you're saying?

 

[NutterButter]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.

Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

I'm going to have a really hard time with that. I have no problem making the sacrifices to spend 50k/yr for them to go to an elite school, but not for them to become a kindergarten teacher; they can go to a state school for that.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a kindergarten teacher, but I'd much rather save a bunch of money on school and use that instead to help them make a down payment on a house. Its more the misuse of money that would really bother me.

If we are talking elite school then I kind of think by default the kid will be driven and will want to do more than work as a kindergarten teacher. You don't need to go to Northwestern or ND if that is the sum of your ambition. But if she/he is interested in that, I think I would try to take it towards a higher degree in child development or child psychology degree etc so it may lead to research, administration or other opportunities down the road. But like I said- I don't see someone so driven to get the grades and other stuff to get into an elite school to turn around and not want to do much with their degree.

Maybe I'm making more of this than it is. Its really the only concern I have. If my kids take the route that requires me to spend a bunch of money for school, I want to make sure that its worth it in terms of their earning potential.

For me personally, I would rather my kids have a happy life in the middle class than a miserable life making top dollar. I believe career choice can really impact your level of contentment and happiness more so than bank accounts can really impact your level of contentment and happiness. I would rather try to leverage what my kids are passionate about into a stable career than try to force them into a high paying career that they really are only doing because it is high paying.

On the other hand, there are some "career choices" that are 99.9% of people fail to achieve (music, pro sports, etc) and other majors that really the only thing you can directly use it for is grad school or teaching (Philosophy, sociology, etc). I just am hoping that in the very least I am able to help them realize a plan B if that is their first choice.

A friend of mine wanted to try the music thing. He first got a bachelors in Philosophy and about three minors from USC because that was what he was interested in. He then gave music a shot but gave himself a time limit in that if he was not able to establish a decent living within X years, then he would go to law school. He scraped and scratched on by playing gigs here and there and in bands and then time was up... he went to law school and is a lawyer now. He enjoyed law so it was not like he was making himself miserable by getting a good paying job for the sake of it being a good paying job.

Clearly, but there's plenty of high paying professions to choose from. At the end of the day, you still need to pay the bills and good luck being happy when every increase in medical costs weighs heavily on your financial well being. This whole idea of a career you're passionate about seems a bit impractical to me. You have a passion, pursue it on the weekends or as a 2nd career when you your kids are out of college and your financial needs are a lot less. I'd rather they find something they enjoy or that is somewhat rewarding that pays well. I'm not talking top 1% well, but well enough where you can lead a comfortable life and you don't have to stress out about financial concerns. Finding that balance is key.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

"You can get your engineering or pre-med degree and still pursue your dream job, but good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job." Even at 15 years-old I knew he was right...

It kind of shocked me how straight-forward he was, but he put it out there early enough that I had time to dwell on it and act accordingly. He clearly did not want to "waste" his money and also wanted me to have some skin in the game.

I ended up getting my engineering degree from a decent school and ended up chipping in about $20,000 for my tuition over five years. It wasn't until right after I graduated and was on my way to a trip to New Zealand that they informed me that they "saved" $10,000 of that money for me to put down money on my first home purchase (this was never a part of the original agreement but they obviously had it planned for quite a while).

I'm fairly certain this is how I plan to (hopefully) motivate my two kids and make sure I'm getting my money's worth.

You might want to talk with some folks with law degrees and update your priors accordingly.

 

[jonessed]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

Computer science and finance down, dad?

Computer science is engineering.

Computer Engineering is engineering. Computer science is a science, but not engineering.

 

[the moops]

good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job."

Your dad is a fool

 

[elbowrm]

It's not what you know, it's who you know. There is no way to replicate the alumni networks of, say, the top 25 liberal arts schools and national universities.

In addition, I have found it a lot easier to teach financial analysis, for example, to a smart liberal arts grad with a solid base of critical reasoning and oral and written communications skills than it is to teach those softer skills to a narrowly-focused business undergrad who has never mastered formal writing in his or her life. Liberal arts>work for 5-6 years>business school will remain a lucrative career path well into the future.

 

[bagger]

By traditional, I am referring to liberal arts degrees that don't teach "required" knowledge for a career. I am not referring to science or engineering degrees which teach knowledge required for a career in that field.

of course not.

now what these people should incur in terms of cost/debt is a whole other story.

 

[bagger]

It's not what you know, it's who you know. There is no way to replicate the alumni networks of, say, the top 25 liberal arts schools and national universities.

In addition, I have found it a lot easier to teach financial analysis, for example, to a smart liberal arts grad with a solid base of critical reasoning and oral and written communications skills than it is to teach those softer skills to a narrowly-focused business undergrad who has never mastered formal writing in his or her life. Liberal arts>work for 5-6 years>business school will remain a lucrative career path well into the future.

this is true.

conversely, i don't care what degree you have, if you are at a for profit school your resume automatically goes into the trash.

 

[Thorpe]

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

Computer science and finance down, dad?

Computer science is engineering.

Computer Engineering is engineering. Computer science is a science, but not engineering.

From my experience...

At most universities, the undergrad degree is in CSE which is Computer Science and Engineering, or EECS which is Electrical Engineering and Computer Science If you graduate as CS major, you'll probably get a job as a software engineer.

Some universities may include CS with math and statistics.

If it is Computer and Information Science, then that is not engineering.

 

[JohnnyU]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Currently she's thinking Marketing/Advertising.. and for that we've been "steering" her towards the Local Technical Colleges where the credits would transfer to a University later if she decided to go for the bachelor degree.

For that career path the Local Technical College have Internships at local companies like 3M, Wells Fargo, etc.. as part of their curriculum. So she'd already have a foot in the door and without spending "boatloads of "

Jr high students do not need to be worrying about what they are going to be doing for a living. That is too young. Hell, even HS seniors don't need to know what they want to do. A lot of college students make that decision in their 2nd year because they spend the first 2 years taking electives and some required courses while feeling their way into fields of interest.

 

[Chadstroma]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.

Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

I'm going to have a really hard time with that. I have no problem making the sacrifices to spend 50k/yr for them to go to an elite school, but not for them to become a kindergarten teacher; they can go to a state school for that.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a kindergarten teacher, but I'd much rather save a bunch of money on school and use that instead to help them make a down payment on a house. Its more the misuse of money that would really bother me.

If we are talking elite school then I kind of think by default the kid will be driven and will want to do more than work as a kindergarten teacher. You don't need to go to Northwestern or ND if that is the sum of your ambition. But if she/he is interested in that, I think I would try to take it towards a higher degree in child development or child psychology degree etc so it may lead to research, administration or other opportunities down the road. But like I said- I don't see someone so driven to get the grades and other stuff to get into an elite school to turn around and not want to do much with their degree.

Maybe I'm making more of this than it is. Its really the only concern I have. If my kids take the route that requires me to spend a bunch of money for school, I want to make sure that its worth it in terms of their earning potential.

For me personally, I would rather my kids have a happy life in the middle class than a miserable life making top dollar. I believe career choice can really impact your level of contentment and happiness more so than bank accounts can really impact your level of contentment and happiness. I would rather try to leverage what my kids are passionate about into a stable career than try to force them into a high paying career that they really are only doing because it is high paying.

On the other hand, there are some "career choices" that are 99.9% of people fail to achieve (music, pro sports, etc) and other majors that really the only thing you can directly use it for is grad school or teaching (Philosophy, sociology, etc). I just am hoping that in the very least I am able to help them realize a plan B if that is their first choice.

A friend of mine wanted to try the music thing. He first got a bachelors in Philosophy and about three minors from USC because that was what he was interested in. He then gave music a shot but gave himself a time limit in that if he was not able to establish a decent living within X years, then he would go to law school. He scraped and scratched on by playing gigs here and there and in bands and then time was up... he went to law school and is a lawyer now. He enjoyed law so it was not like he was making himself miserable by getting a good paying job for the sake of it being a good paying job.

Clearly, but there's plenty of high paying professions to choose from. At the end of the day, you still need to pay the bills and good luck being happy when every increase in medical costs weighs heavily on your financial well being. This whole idea of a career you're passionate about seems a bit impractical to me. You have a passion, pursue it on the weekends or as a 2nd career when you your kids are out of college and your financial needs are a lot less. I'd rather they find something they enjoy or that is somewhat rewarding that pays well. I'm not talking top 1% well, but well enough where you can lead a comfortable life and you don't have to stress out about financial concerns. Finding that balance is key.

I guess what I am seeking for my kids is quality of life. That is harder to quantify than income is. Income is part of that factor but for me I think it is one of the minor factors. I think too many people make it the primary factor and then they end up wishing and praying that they win the Powerball so they don't have to go to the job that they hate. I think it really matters a lot about the individual child. Mine are way too young for me to have an idea what that may or may not look like for them but I hope to help guide them through those choices and support them in their choices. I guess I have a lot of faith in my kids that they won't be outright silly in their choices.

 

[Chadstroma]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Currently she's thinking Marketing/Advertising.. and for that we've been "steering" her towards the Local Technical Colleges where the credits would transfer to a University later if she decided to go for the bachelor degree.

For that career path the Local Technical College have Internships at local companies like 3M, Wells Fargo, etc.. as part of their curriculum. So she'd already have a foot in the door and without spending "boatloads of "

Jr high students do not need to be worrying about what they are going to be doing for a living. That is too young. Hell, even HS seniors don't need to know what they want to do. A lot of college students make that decision in their 2nd year because they spend the first 2 years taking electives and some required courses while feeling their way into fields of interest.

Agreed but they also need to know that choices that they make as Jr High students can help to open or close doors for them.

 

[snogger]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Currently she's thinking Marketing/Advertising.. and for that we've been "steering" her towards the Local Technical Colleges where the credits would transfer to a University later if she decided to go for the bachelor degree.

For that career path the Local Technical College have Internships at local companies like 3M, Wells Fargo, etc.. as part of their curriculum. So she'd already have a foot in the door and without spending "boatloads of "

Jr high students do not need to be worrying about what they are going to be doing for a living. That is too young. Hell, even HS seniors don't need to know what they want to do. A lot of college students make that decision in their 2nd year because they spend the first 2 years taking electives and some required courses while feeling their way into fields of interest.

You might have misread.. She is a Junior in High School..

and I mistakenly stated "career path"... it's not so much the actual Career, as much as it is .. University or Technical College?

Based on her current interests, Marketing/Advertising, a Technical College may be the best fit for her..

If she decides she wants to go to a University, then she has to start applying for scholarships and contacting Universities for acceptance before she starts her senior year.

One thing to add.. She's been taking AP classes( 3 of her classes this semester are AP), as well as is scheduled to take some actual College course next year as part of her Senior curriculum which will help get some credits built up if she does decides to attend a University.

 

[Steve Tasker]

and I mistakenly stated "career path"... it's not so much the actual Career, as much as it is .. University or Technical College?

Based on her current interests, Marketing/Advertising, a Technical College may be the best fit for her..

If she decides she wants to go to a University, then she has to start applying for scholarships and contacting Universities for acceptance before she starts her senior year.

One thing to add.. She's been taking AP classes( 3 of her classes this semester are AP), as well as is scheduled to take some actual College course next year as part of her Senior curriculum which will help get some credits built up if she does decides to attend a University.

I know you've been saying this in various threads, but I really think you're overinflating the value of a technical college degree in the marketing and business world. I know you say that people get internships at 3M and Target from your local tech schools, and I'm not disputing that, but I really think that in a field like marketing, she'd be much, much better off long-term with a 4-year degree. The Twin Cities is surely a different world than Western NY, but around here you're not even sniffing a "good" entry-level position without a 4-year degree, and in fact most large companies require MBAs. If she's as good a student as you claim, and I have no doubt she is, I would certainly be looking at 4-year schools, or at the very least schools with a strong transfer rate.

You've mentioned a number of times your educational background and it's clear you've worked very hard to get where you are today, and that is fantastic. But the marketing/advertising field in ~2020 is not the same as the tech field in 1990. I implore you and your daughter to really get a feel for what is best for her.

4-year schools aren't for everybody, but I think your daughter certainly sounds like she fits the bill.

 

[snogger]

and I mistakenly stated "career path"... it's not so much the actual Career, as much as it is .. University or Technical College?

Based on her current interests, Marketing/Advertising, a Technical College may be the best fit for her..

If she decides she wants to go to a University, then she has to start applying for scholarships and contacting Universities for acceptance before she starts her senior year.

One thing to add.. She's been taking AP classes( 3 of her classes this semester are AP), as well as is scheduled to take some actual College course next year as part of her Senior curriculum which will help get some credits built up if she does decides to attend a University.

I know you've been saying this in various threads, but I really think you're overinflating the value of a technical college degree in the marketing and business world. I know you say that people get internships at 3M and Target from your local tech schools, and I'm not disputing that, but I really think that in a field like marketing, she'd be much, much better off long-term with a 4-year degree. The Twin Cities is surely a different world than Western NY, but around here you're not even sniffing a "good" entry-level position without a 4-year degree, and in fact most large companies require MBAs. If she's as good a student as you claim, and I have no doubt she is, I would certainly be looking at 4-year schools, or at the very least schools with a strong transfer rate.

You've mentioned a number of times your educational background and it's clear you've worked very hard to get where you are today, and that is fantastic. But the marketing/advertising field in ~2020 is not the same as the tech field in 1990. I implore you and your daughter to really get a feel for what is best for her.

4-year schools aren't for everybody, but I think your daughter certainly sounds like she fits the bill.

We are truly leaving the decision up to her.. We've let her know that it is fully in her hands on how she continues her education after high school and whatever direction she decides to go( University or Technical College) we will support her.

Since she is taking AP courses, and will be taking some "general" college courses next year, she'll already be knocking out some of those "crap" general classes that she despises and has no interest in further pursuing so that will help..

At the same time, She wants to "jump" in and get to work.. and the idea of being able to get an Internship through the Technical colleges while she is learning appeals to her greatly.

As I mentioned, my 3M contacts have told me they take internships from local TC's all the time.. And the Company I work for, that has over 15,000 employees world wide, has also let me know "the door is open to her for an internship if so desired".. Part of that "It's who you know" ..

The other advantage to Technical college is that she can get her "foot in the door" and pursue the Bachelor degree if she feels the need to, while still building up the experience..

 

[IvanKaramazov]

At the same time, She wants to "jump" in and get to work.. and the idea of being able to get an Internship through the Technical colleges while she is learning appeals to her greatly.

Pretty much any business school will have a well-established internship program.

I agree with Steve Tasker. Four year colleges aren't for everyone. If you want a career in business, though, you really do need a four year degree (and possibly an MBA or similar masters at some point). A two year technical degree might get you a job as a bookkeeper, but not as an accountant, for example -- two very different jobs that sound superficially similar.

 

[snogger]

At the same time, She wants to "jump" in and get to work.. and the idea of being able to get an Internship through the Technical colleges while she is learning appeals to her greatly.

Pretty much any business school will have a well-established internship program.

I agree with Steve Tasker. Four year colleges aren't for everyone. If you want a career in business, though, you really do need a four year degree (and possibly an MBA or similar masters at some point). A two year technical degree might get you a job as a bookkeeper, but not as an accountant, for example -- two very different jobs that sound superficially similar.

She has zero.. let me repeat ZERO interest in anything related to accounting/bookkeeping etc.. dislikes math with a passion... she wants to use her creative side.. be it advertising, marketing, etc... Her "dream" career is an Author and plans to continue writing short stories, as she's doing now, with hope of getting her big break later in life

 

[Steve Tasker]

At the same time, She wants to "jump" in and get to work.. and the idea of being able to get an Internship through the Technical colleges while she is learning appeals to her greatly.

As I mentioned, my 3M contacts have told me they take internships from local TC's all the time.. And the Company I work for, that has over 15,000 employees world wide, has also let me know "the door is open to her for an internship if so desired".. Part of that "It's who you know" ..

The other advantage to Technical college is that she can get her "foot in the door" and pursue the Bachelor degree if she feels the need to, while still building up the experience..

I would be curious as to what the internships at 3M and your company would entail in terms of work experience for someone with a TC education. I would have to imagine that at a giant company like 3M, they could have their pick of the litter of top marketing undergrads and MBA candidates for the higher-profile marketing internships and positions. I'm sure there's space for them to take on an intern from a TC, but what are the full-time job prospects once the internship ends?

Again, none of this is directed as a negative at her, but just thinking about her long-term future. At a company like 3M or Target, the chances of her progressing into even middle-management in a back-office HQ setting with just a TC degree have to be miniscule. I'm not saying she can't do the work competently, I'm saying she'd struggle to get the chance. But maybe that's not what she wants.

All I know is that I have a lot of friends with marketing backgrounds. People go into it thinking it's a fun, creative, artsy way to have a business impact. I have friends who write blogs, sell radio advertising, sell car insurance, and most of them are scraping by financially. My wife's first full-time gig out of school was running the marketing department for a chain of like 8 local car rental places. It's not exactly glamorous. I would say that both my wife and a close friend of mine have very good marketing positions at reputable international companies. They both do fine financially and are in the 3M and Target echelon of companies......and they were both boxed out of their current positions until they got their MBAs.

 

[Chadstroma]

At the same time, She wants to "jump" in and get to work.. and the idea of being able to get an Internship through the Technical colleges while she is learning appeals to her greatly.

Pretty much any business school will have a well-established internship program.

I agree with Steve Tasker. Four year colleges aren't for everyone. If you want a career in business, though, you really do need a four year degree (and possibly an MBA or similar masters at some point). A two year technical degree might get you a job as a bookkeeper, but not as an accountant, for example -- two very different jobs that sound superficially similar.

I agree. Today in the business world a bachelors degree is pretty much nothing. Most desirable jobs will have that as a base minimum with a masters degree preferred or depending on the company/position it is minimum to have. You can work your way up in business without a degree and honestly it would not be much different from having a bachelors. An associates degree is worth pretty much nothing.

The only jobs in the business world that I can think of that don't follow that are the 'creative' jobs.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

At the same time, She wants to "jump" in and get to work.. and the idea of being able to get an Internship through the Technical colleges while she is learning appeals to her greatly.

Pretty much any business school will have a well-established internship program.

I agree with Steve Tasker. Four year colleges aren't for everyone. If you want a career in business, though, you really do need a four year degree (and possibly an MBA or similar masters at some point). A two year technical degree might get you a job as a bookkeeper, but not as an accountant, for example -- two very different jobs that sound superficially similar.

She has zero.. let me repeat ZERO interest in anything related to accounting/bookkeeping etc.. dislikes math with a passion... she wants to use her creative side.. be it advertising, marketing, etc...Her "dream" career is an Author and plans to continue writing short stories, as she's doing now, with hope of getting her big break later in life

I understand -- that was just an example.

 

[snogger]

So as to get out of the nested/nested responses just starting a new response to steve

Currently she has no ambition to get into management. That could change and thus my post in regards to her going after her bachelor's after TC if she desires.

Our largest concern is,as I mentioned above, she doesn't want to be forced to take the general stuff. I know from my experience that when you don't have an interest in something you don't put as much effort behind it and your grades suffer because of it..

Then again she continues to tell us how much she hates math yet the last two semesters has received A's in the classes so maybe hate for her equals good.

 

[cstu]

She wants to "jump" in and get to work

Tell her working is over-rated.

 

[cstu]

The Twin Cities is surely a different world than Western NY, but around here you're not even sniffing a "good" entry-level position without a 4-year degree, and in fact most large companies require MBAs.

Buffalo that competitive?

 

[Steve Tasker]

The Twin Cities is surely a different world than Western NY, but around here you're not even sniffing a "good" entry-level position without a 4-year degree, and in fact most large companies require MBAs.

Buffalo that competitive?

If you want a job in marketing for a large company that doesn't pay peanuts and has career advancement possibilities......most likely, yes.

 

[hagmania]

I can't blame my parents, no one from our neck of the woods knew any different. There's no one to blame at all really, things are going swimmingly now, just was a very frustrating few years in between graduation and my current spot. Definitely given my sister plenty of advice as she enters college next year. A lot of it is near contrary to what my parents and I thought 10 years ago, hope it sets her on a better trajectory than I had right out of school.

 

[NutterButter]

She wants to "jump" in and get to work

Tell her working is over-rated.

Seriously. You're going to work for 30-40 years. There's nothing close to the 4 years of college. Enjoy the hell out of them.

 

[shadrap]

I agree with this. There are so many people I see who are smart in certain areas, but have no ability to organize their thoughts and communicate them. I have a B.S. in Psychology from a liberal arts school and don't do anything in that field. I think that having the training to really know how to write and organize information has put me far ahead. People who are in upper management don't have always time to make sense of all communications if they aren't clear. Being able to provide a concise, cogent description of a situation, along with a reasonable recommendation is highly valued, at least in my experience, because it is one less decision that upper-level managers have to make.

Not enough credit is given to liberal arts and social sciences degrees. Business writing is a very useful skill that most people do not have.

I figured as much. Think Cuba! Just kidding man.

 

[Buttonhook]

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

"You can get your engineering or pre-med degree and still pursue your dream job, but good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job." Even at 15 years-old I knew he was right...

It kind of shocked me how straight-forward he was, but he put it out there early enough that I had time to dwell on it and act accordingly. He clearly did not want to "waste" his money and also wanted me to have some skin in the game.

I ended up getting my engineering degree from a decent school and ended up chipping in about $20,000 for my tuition over five years. It wasn't until right after I graduated and was on my way to a trip to New Zealand that they informed me that they "saved" $10,000 of that money for me to put down money on my first home purchase (this was never a part of the original agreement but they obviously had it planned for quite a while).

I'm fairly certain this is how I plan to (hopefully) motivate my two kids and make sure I'm getting my money's worth.

Computer science and finance down, dad?

This was 1985. Computer Science was just getting started, and predicting that the Financial Sector would be the place to be was not easy to forecast at that time. I know a few very sharp engineers that got scooped up by financial companies but that didn't happen until the late 90s.

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

Computer science and finance down, dad?

Computer science is engineering.

I consider computer science more of a math and logic degree and separate from engineering, even though they do have a lot in common.

Doctor or Lawyer is 1980s thinking...which is half the problem, parents have no idea how to direct their children.

Everybody and their mom has been screaming that healthcare(not just MDs) and IT jobs is where the growth is at. For whatever reasons parents are still letting their kids pursue worthless degrees even though politicians and just about every media article has been trying to change their thinking.

Parents and their 1980s thinking are as much to blame, if not more to blame, than the kids pursuing studies in "poetry" and "history".

Interesting point, but it was the 80s so you can cut my dad a break.

good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job."

Your dad is a fool

He's definitely not a fool, he guided me to a profession that could at least support a family and still give me options to pursue my dreams. I was a normal 15 year-old kid and needed some direction.

I see that others want to criticize my pops thoughts on what he constituted as the "top of the pyramid," and I partially agree that the jobs at the top of his pyramid may have been off. However, you're missing my point. I'm a parent and thinking ahead like a lot of the previous posters, and was trying to offer one possible solution on how we make sure our kids have the opportunity to make the most of their college years and make the most of the ridiculous amount of money it's going to cost us.

Just like my pops, I feel strongly that making your kids pay for some portion of college is important - while they are in school. I also think when we pay for their school, we can have some demands as to what kind of degrees they are pursuing. If they want to pursue a degree that you don't think is a good investment of your money then have the balls to tell your kids you wont pay for it. This was my point, not that my dad knew all the right degrees to pursue, but he put some onus on me make responsible decisions with both his money and my money.

 

[BassNBrew]

I work at a small but financially thriving university and our president thinks that online instruction will be taking a big bite out of traditional structures in the future. Hands on instruction will be limited to those instances where it's necessary. The two big appeals of online are (1) price, obviously and (2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

The problem is with the private online university's & their predatorial loaning practices. The majority of the loans are government backed, and many of these universities are owned by the bankers like Goldman.

Perfect vehicle for Hillary to reformed education.

 

[NutterButter]

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

"You can get your engineering or pre-med degree and still pursue your dream job, but good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job." Even at 15 years-old I knew he was right...

It kind of shocked me how straight-forward he was, but he put it out there early enough that I had time to dwell on it and act accordingly. He clearly did not want to "waste" his money and also wanted me to have some skin in the game.

I ended up getting my engineering degree from a decent school and ended up chipping in about $20,000 for my tuition over five years. It wasn't until right after I graduated and was on my way to a trip to New Zealand that they informed me that they "saved" $10,000 of that money for me to put down money on my first home purchase (this was never a part of the original agreement but they obviously had it planned for quite a while).

I'm fairly certain this is how I plan to (hopefully) motivate my two kids and make sure I'm getting my money's worth.

Computer science and finance down, dad?

This was 1985. Computer Science was just getting started, and predicting that the Financial Sector would be the place to be was not easy to forecast at that time. I know a few very sharp engineers that got scooped up by financial companies but that didn't happen until the late 90s.

They aren't obsolete as much as they are worthless, because almost everyone goes to college these days and gets one of those degrees.

My father sat me down when I was a sophomore in High School (this was about 25 years ago):

"Son, there's a pyramid in life, and doctors, engineers and lawyers are at the top of this list. If you decide to pursue a college degree in one of these categories, your Mom and I will split your college tuition with you. If you decide to pursue any other degrees you can pay for it." He also knew at the time my dream job was a sportscaster and he made another point:

Computer science and finance down, dad?

Computer science is engineering.

I consider computer science more of a math and logic degree and separate from engineering, even though they do have a lot in common.

Doctor or Lawyer is 1980s thinking...which is half the problem, parents have no idea how to direct their children.

Everybody and their mom has been screaming that healthcare(not just MDs) and IT jobs is where the growth is at. For whatever reasons parents are still letting their kids pursue worthless degrees even though politicians and just about every media article has been trying to change their thinking.

Parents and their 1980s thinking are as much to blame, if not more to blame, than the kids pursuing studies in "poetry" and "history".

Interesting point, but it was the 80s so you can cut my dad a break.

good luck getting a communications degree and then deciding you want to pursue a "real" job."

Your dad is a fool

He's definitely not a fool, he guided me to a profession that could at least support a family and still give me options to pursue my dreams. I was a normal 15 year-old kid and needed some direction.

I see that others want to criticize my pops thoughts on what he constituted as the "top of the pyramid," and I partially agree that the jobs at the top of his pyramid may have been off. However, you're missing my point. I'm a parent and thinking ahead like a lot of the previous posters, and was trying to offer one possible solution on how we make sure our kids have the opportunity to make the most of their college years and make the most of the ridiculous amount of money it's going to cost us.

Just like my pops, I feel strongly that making your kids pay for some portion of college is important - while they are in school. I also think when we pay for their school, we can have some demands as to what kind of degrees they are pursuing. If they want to pursue a degree that you don't think is a good investment of your money then have the balls to tell your kids you wont pay for it. This was my point, not that my dad knew all the right degrees to pursue, but he put some onus on me make responsible decisions with both his money and my money.

For what its worth, I like your dad's approach. We'll probably pay for most of the schooling if we agree with the major, but I agree that they should take some part in the cost so probably some small loans for the kids; $20k in loans with a well paying major is no problem to pay off. Hopefully my kids have the sense to pick a major they can make a good living on and it doesn't come to an ultimatum