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Article - Why We Should Stop Calling Adult Women "Girls"' - Thoughts? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
I think women and men should be used for over eighteen years old to just end the debate about colloquialisms once and for all.
We are women.
We are men.
This is such a tough conversation to have. It implicates so much political stuff. Just be safe and call women over eighteen women and men over eighteen men. Just like the sport's pages. So simple, this age of majority.
We are women.
We are men.
This is such a tough conversation to have. It implicates so much political stuff. Just be safe and call women over eighteen women and men over eighteen men. Just like the sport's pages. So simple, this age of majority.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I scrolled through and didn't see any posts from you in regards to this. I did you call this political correctness. I don't see this as PC at all. It's just unprofessional IMO.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think a bigger problem is that so many people would rather fight than be kind and considerate.
Ideally, the speaker would take a moment and try to communicate in ways that don't hurt someone else. And the listener, if offended, would calmly explain that something wasn't cool with them and the speaker would make the adjustment.
Instead, too many people don't give a crap if they hurt someone with their words, people are offended and flip out rather than be cool and give the person and chance to re-consider, and folks get upset and escalate instead of re-considering.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
OR the speaker might be given a chance to explain that he meant no offense, and the listener might be able to adjust their stance that everybody wasn't looking to offend them just because a "hot button" word was used. THAT is precisely when the context and tone come into play.
But agreed... either way, it's a conversation that needs to happen, and sadly, many times doesn't.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Yeah, I mean, going back to the article, does anyone really believe the wait staff was intending to offend.. unless they want to play the victim card?
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Offense can only be taken, not given.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
For the last time, for me anyway...context
If a group of black men walk into a bar and the bartender says "sorry boy, we don't serve your kind in here". They're probably gonna be pissed.
If that same group of black men walk into a bar and a hot ### bartender struts over and says "what'll ya have boys"?? You think they're gonna take offense?
TakiToki
Footballguy
Wait staff should certainly be given some latitude, as they are rarely intending to offend, for obvious reasons. Some patrons want chummy, chatty and flirty while others prefer business-like and detached. And of course this is a continuum, not black and white.
A bit of a tangent, but I find that how one treats the wait staff (or really service workers in general) is a pretty reliable indicator of character.
A bit of a tangent, but I find that how one treats the wait staff (or really service workers in general) is a pretty reliable indicator of character.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
chet
Footballguy
As I mentioned above, this is an attempt by the radical left to control free speech under the guise of political correctness. Don’t fall into their trap. Use your own judgement as to what’s appropriate to say.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I guess I'm a bit confused. So now if something is offensive to an African American but not to me, it's white privilege? Seriously? WTF?
Radical Larry
Footballguy
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Hyper sensitive world. Girl not appropriate in a business setting.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
C’mon. Have your head in the sand if you don’t know the term is an affront to African Americans. Go try it in a bar and report back.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I have no idea where you got that. I in no way said it wasn't an affront to AA. I totally agree it is! But he said the fact that whites are ok with it being said to them is a case of "white privilege." And that is what I said is total BS.
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
No better judge of character than how people treat those they somehow consider "below" them.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
You're about 70. I'm guessing your wife is as well. Along with the rest of those elderly women.
People within the same age groups tend to know how to not offend each other. Speak the same language, within the same context.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I'm late to the party here but i think there's a huge problem with the way people perceive political correctness, even (especially?) in this thread.
There's language that is offensive. Racial slurs are plainly and obviously offensive. They are offensive because they are a deliberate insult and are intended to hurt.
Calling someone a chick or a "" or a "homo" or a "#######" is also very offensive. And despite the popular talking about how "special" has become offensive since it replaced "######", and autistic is starting to get used as a perjorative by kids today, it's still very much offensive to use any of those terms with a negative connotation. It's deliberately hurtful.
There's a simple litmus test for these words. If your niece had down's syndrome, would you make jokes that involved the word "#######" in front of your brother or sister? If not, then don't make those jokes in public, either, because you don't know the other people and any one of them might be facing a really difficult challenge that you're not up to. And if you wouldn't make those jokes in public, making them in private is kind of a jerk move, too. It's better to avoid it altogether.
But then there's words like "policeman" and "manhole cover" and "girls". For the most part, nobody is delivering these with the intent to offend. When somebody says "girls night out" or "hey ladies" they usually don't mean to imply anything negative.
But there really is meaning to those words. When you say a bunch of middle aged women are going to have a girl's night out, you kind of expect them to do some immature partying. Because they're not acting like adult women, they're acting like girls. Same thing goes with a bunch of men saying they're having a boy's night.
But if i had to pee and asked where's the little boy's room, it isn't offensive. If we had a couple's night and played a game and said let's play boys vs girls, it's not offensive.
When you refer to a coworker as a girl, you're not necessarily being offensive, but there's a good chance it carries an implication. If you refer to someone as the new girl in accounting, you might mean "the new accountant who is a female", but somebody else might hear it as every bit as offensive as if you said "that new black guy in accounting". Again, not exactly offensive, but it's really not cool. Because there's some negative implications.
But i think a lot of it goes back to the power of language. Replacing patriarchal language like policeman and fireman with police officer and firefighter makes it more socially acceptable for women to have those occupations. Replacing "girl" with "woman" levels the playing field be showing respect for an adult female. Those are good and noble goals for your own speech and also for the direction of the English language.
But here's the problem.
Lumping in words like "girl" and "policeman" with truly vulgar, racist, misogynist or otherwise offensive words as "politically correct" is bad for a couple reasons.
First, it encourages victim blaming. It's easy for people to say Why is everyone so easily offended these days? Stop being so sensitive.
Second, the broader the definition, the more difficult it is for people to change language they've learned since early in life. As the speaker, it's really frustrating to have to police your speech for fear of getting in trouble. And there's an implication too - that white people are all racists, that men are all misogynists, that we are all guilty of original sin, but some of us are guiltier. And that creates a backlash.
Which leads to the bigger issue. Others want to say the N word. Not as fair. Some people want to call their friend ###### when he does something dumb. That's offensive, but they might not see it that way. Some people want to be able to say policeman without getting in trouble. That's not on the same level.
When you call all of those things "politically correct", you provide cover to the racist, or the anti Semite, or the mysoginist, or the homophobe, and all the other hateful people who want sympathy for not being allowed to express their feelings. A perfectly reasonable person might complain that they can't say merry Christmas because it's not PC, and their racist buddy might say see, they won't let us say anything.
To me, this whole conversation about what's "offensive" is dangerous, not because it's important, but because we use the wrong language to describe it.
It's insensitive to say merry Christmas to someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas. It could even be offensive to someone who makes it clear they belong to a religion that doesn't celebrate the holiday. But it's not offensive to say merry Christmas in general. It's not "politically correct" to say happy hollidays.
It's insensitive to call women "girls" and men "boys". It might be offensive in a context where someone is deliberately diminishing someone else, like if a man refers to a coworker as a girl in a context where he's not referring to her gender, or if she replies that boys will be boys.
It's wrong to deliberately offend people.
We should strive to be sensitive, but people can be insensitive without meaning offense.
In most contexts, using the word "girl" is not offensive. In many contexts, it's insensitive, so you should try not to. There's also contexts where it's not insensitive or offensive, and taking unnecessary offense to it hurts more people than letting it slide.
There's language that is offensive. Racial slurs are plainly and obviously offensive. They are offensive because they are a deliberate insult and are intended to hurt.
Calling someone a chick or a "" or a "homo" or a "#######" is also very offensive. And despite the popular talking about how "special" has become offensive since it replaced "######", and autistic is starting to get used as a perjorative by kids today, it's still very much offensive to use any of those terms with a negative connotation. It's deliberately hurtful.
There's a simple litmus test for these words. If your niece had down's syndrome, would you make jokes that involved the word "#######" in front of your brother or sister? If not, then don't make those jokes in public, either, because you don't know the other people and any one of them might be facing a really difficult challenge that you're not up to. And if you wouldn't make those jokes in public, making them in private is kind of a jerk move, too. It's better to avoid it altogether.
But then there's words like "policeman" and "manhole cover" and "girls". For the most part, nobody is delivering these with the intent to offend. When somebody says "girls night out" or "hey ladies" they usually don't mean to imply anything negative.
But there really is meaning to those words. When you say a bunch of middle aged women are going to have a girl's night out, you kind of expect them to do some immature partying. Because they're not acting like adult women, they're acting like girls. Same thing goes with a bunch of men saying they're having a boy's night.
But if i had to pee and asked where's the little boy's room, it isn't offensive. If we had a couple's night and played a game and said let's play boys vs girls, it's not offensive.
When you refer to a coworker as a girl, you're not necessarily being offensive, but there's a good chance it carries an implication. If you refer to someone as the new girl in accounting, you might mean "the new accountant who is a female", but somebody else might hear it as every bit as offensive as if you said "that new black guy in accounting". Again, not exactly offensive, but it's really not cool. Because there's some negative implications.
But i think a lot of it goes back to the power of language. Replacing patriarchal language like policeman and fireman with police officer and firefighter makes it more socially acceptable for women to have those occupations. Replacing "girl" with "woman" levels the playing field be showing respect for an adult female. Those are good and noble goals for your own speech and also for the direction of the English language.
But here's the problem.
Lumping in words like "girl" and "policeman" with truly vulgar, racist, misogynist or otherwise offensive words as "politically correct" is bad for a couple reasons.
First, it encourages victim blaming. It's easy for people to say Why is everyone so easily offended these days? Stop being so sensitive.
Second, the broader the definition, the more difficult it is for people to change language they've learned since early in life. As the speaker, it's really frustrating to have to police your speech for fear of getting in trouble. And there's an implication too - that white people are all racists, that men are all misogynists, that we are all guilty of original sin, but some of us are guiltier. And that creates a backlash.
Which leads to the bigger issue. Others want to say the N word. Not as fair. Some people want to call their friend ###### when he does something dumb. That's offensive, but they might not see it that way. Some people want to be able to say policeman without getting in trouble. That's not on the same level.
When you call all of those things "politically correct", you provide cover to the racist, or the anti Semite, or the mysoginist, or the homophobe, and all the other hateful people who want sympathy for not being allowed to express their feelings. A perfectly reasonable person might complain that they can't say merry Christmas because it's not PC, and their racist buddy might say see, they won't let us say anything.
To me, this whole conversation about what's "offensive" is dangerous, not because it's important, but because we use the wrong language to describe it.
It's insensitive to say merry Christmas to someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas. It could even be offensive to someone who makes it clear they belong to a religion that doesn't celebrate the holiday. But it's not offensive to say merry Christmas in general. It's not "politically correct" to say happy hollidays.
It's insensitive to call women "girls" and men "boys". It might be offensive in a context where someone is deliberately diminishing someone else, like if a man refers to a coworker as a girl in a context where he's not referring to her gender, or if she replies that boys will be boys.
It's wrong to deliberately offend people.
We should strive to be sensitive, but people can be insensitive without meaning offense.
In most contexts, using the word "girl" is not offensive. In many contexts, it's insensitive, so you should try not to. There's also contexts where it's not insensitive or offensive, and taking unnecessary offense to it hurts more people than letting it slide.
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TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
bostonfred
Footballguy
Intensitive does not mean Offensive.Wait. What?
I'll change that from "non Christian" to "someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas" though. That actually was insensitive of me.
Scott Tenorman
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
But I wouldn't think it's either. Do people get offended over this?
And I don't mean "faux outrage", I mean honestly get offended or find this insensitive? Am I still allowed to with people Happy Chinese New Year?
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I said it yesterday by accident. There is a specialty market I go to at least once a week. Produce, meats and a bakery. I know a few of the employees and one of the females I know from the bakery gave me a couple of brownies she made from a new recipe. Went home at ate one and it was great. I went in yesterday and saw her and said "dam girl, that was the best brownie I ever had in my life" 
She smiled and said "I am so glad you liked it"
As soon as I said it I thought of this thread.
She smiled and said "I am so glad you liked it"As soon as I said it I thought of this thread.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Somebody might get offended, for example, if they walked into a chickfila in a conservative southern state wearing a yarmulke or a burqa and everyone there seemed to go out of their way to say merry Christmas to them. Because it seems like a deliberate way to intimidate them, or make them feel uncomfortable, or otherwise discriminate against their religion when they've clearly displayed it.
Outside of extreme cases, though, it's not really offensive. The reason people think merry Christmas is insensitive is because they know that somebody might get offended, and being sensitive to that means choosing not to risk offending people. But saying merry Christmas to people who celebrate it is also being sensitive to people's traditions, just like acknowledging Hanukkah or Diwali or Ramadan or any other holiday or tradition. It's generally a nice thing to do.
My whole point is that there's a huge difference between being insensitive and being offensive
Insensitivity means not being sensitive. It does not mean being offensive.
You might accidentally give offense because you were insensitive. If you deliberately give offense, that is offensive. It might be because you're too insensitive to realize it, but people are usually pretty aware of what's truly offensive.
When you say "I mean honestly get offended or find this insensitive?", you're lumping the two together, and to me that is a big issue, because it's hard to always be sensitive to everything. It's the graduate course in the social contract. But people are (or should be) taught from an early age not to be offensive.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Warrior
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
"You can always tell a lady by her manners to her inferiors."Leroy Hoard said:
Now it's bugging me that I can't remember who said that and where. Scarlet O'Hara? Blanche Dubois?
Scott Tenorman
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I went to see a heavy metal band in New York called Monster Magnet. Man, they were heavy, boy. The lead singer got on the monitor, and he said, "How many of you people feel like human beings tonight?" Then he said, "How many of you feel like animals?!" And everyone cheered after the animals part. But the thing is, I cheered after the human beings part because I did not know there was a second part to the question.
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